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So what happened to my Summoner?


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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:44 PM

Well this was the new method we were working on is as follows.

Only VIP or "faked VIP" (with a reset stone for 3 days) can actually do the summoning.
Cost to summon is some Eden Merit Badges and 1 item from the MVP

Summoning character talks to wisp with entire party in the tower area.
Goes into the summoning room, immediately your party can talk to wisp to come in, 15 minute and 3 hour timer start then
Minions are all around, clear wave 1 and 2 of the minions to have MVP spawn within 15 minutes

In the end this should all be instanced (so no waiting in line)

Bad news is there was an entire build we were testing that won't work properly with instances, so quite a bit of redo is necessary to get it to public testability. This is what has caused the 1 week delay. I do not have an eta that I trust right now on the summoner test. It is being worked on today, and we'll see where we go from there.
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#2 Ramen

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

Well, this should be interesting. I'm curious what the "1" item from the MVP will be. Is it planned to be just 1 thing that only that specific MVP drops, or would any 1 thing that is in the MVP drop list also meet the requirement?
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#3 Pril

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:05 PM

So the only difference is a wave of monsters and maybe the summoning items?
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#4 Dmentd

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

Fake VIP, huh?
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#5 asayuu

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:43 PM

So the only difference is a wave of monsters and maybe the summoning items?


Yes, and people are complaining they can't solo anymore.
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#6 iiNote

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

It would be awesome if the MVP's in this Summoner could have higher rates (Both EXP and Drop)... Say.. 1.25x or 1.5x it would really make it worth for people to go on parties even for that 0.25/0.5x xD

Edited by iiNote, 15 March 2012 - 03:53 PM.

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#7 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:54 PM

Kinda defeats the purpose for the summoner for about maybe 98% of the people that use it. Most people go to solo in summoner so there is no competition or greedy party members that take the items and run or they just want all the exp/items for themselves. Now it's basically a mini form of endless tower. But just 1 mvp. I personally used mvp summoner to level up my biochem. Looks like biochems wont be able to do that nearly as easily now. Oh well, hopefully it turns out well. And for the item required along with the eden merit i would assume the future requirements look like the past 2 editions of the V.I.P. summoner. >>>http://irowiki.org/wiki/VIP_Summoner<<<
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#8 Heimdallr

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

The time is more flexible, the cost is a little different, requiring a token from that MVP in addition to the EMB.

Also no wait time, and more party oriented. The intention of the summoner was to be a group activity, it is still soloable but it raises the bar due to time (not lethality). The instancing gives us a good means for hte future expansion of it because there is no chance of wait lines.
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#9 Tofu

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

I like the idea of no waiting in line (especially since some people like to summon something, then leave when it's crowded).

Also like the fact that the wait time is lower, though it seems like it may be back to like how it was when it didn't take EMB, so only people that camped the real mvps could then summon their own free mvps again after that.
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#10 Hakobune

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

Are the Minions going to the same for every MVP or are they going to be based on the MVP you summon?
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#11 meli

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

What is a token exactly, a drop that can only be obtained from the mvp? as Tofu said, only people that camp the mvp would be able to summon it, okay... If you're on the unfortunate situation of competing vs someone using convex mirrors/god items and virtually can't beat them at natural spawn you're basically nullified to summon such mvp then?
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#12 claire03

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:21 PM

i dont get it... is waiting in line really an issue in ymir server... i dont think so.. maybe in Valkyrie server it is. But not in Ymir
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#13 iiNote

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:22 PM

I never liked the Token idea... Why not just leave it with EMB requirement, heck ask for 2 if it really needs it?
I never got to use the old Summoner cause of those tokens I needed.
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#14 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:27 PM

It's funny because the token requires you to kill the mvp... And to kill the mvp you have to beat the people that kill/ camp the mvp 24/7.... And those people that camp it 24/7 can just summon more of them in mvp summoner... Seems like the woe system. Guild gets god item= Easier for guild to get castles= easier to get more god items= continuous cycle.
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#15 Beata

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:29 PM

^ What Tofu said.

The concept is interesting but you might want to look into the additional fee issue. I would rather double the merits intake but on top of that requiring a certain token of that MvP will just make the new summoner more oriented towards those MvP campers in the fields. So please look into the additional token part other than that the plan is appealing.
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#16 ultra39

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:39 PM

The time is more flexible, the cost is a little different, requiring a token from that MVP in addition to the EMB.


This has me worried. I know you didn't want field hunting to be phased out (let's be honest, it totally hasn't), but requiring a specific drop from that MvP means that there's only a few individuals who will end up benefiting from this change. As everyone else has been pointing out, the ones who have the ability to camp MvPs all day will end up collecting all these tokens, and will essentially have control over the system: they'll be able to use the new summoner at their leisure, or they control the market prices on the tokens. Meanwhile, everyone else will essentially either be forced to buy from them, or they'll have to get lucky and kill a specific MvP (if they even have a class to do it with). It makes sense if you want to try to help the game economy, but again, it's pretty much putting all that control into the hands of a few certain groups.

I'd say I play rather casually, and the old summoner system worked just fine imo: a 10 hour cooldown meant I could only realistically do 1 summon a day, which fit perfectly into my schedule. I'm not asking to keep the old system in, nor am I opposing the new system. However, as an alternative, maybe you can add in an option to summon without the MvP token requirement, but with more merit badges instead? This gives many others an opportunity to use the new summoner as well.
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#17 Tofu

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:04 PM

Or a longer cooldown if you pay without the MVP token?


So, for example, it could play out like this:

1. Start with EMB only; no tokens.
2. Start MVP instance using EMB only, collect MVP token.
3. Wait 10-23 hour (penalty) for summoning without token.
4. Start MVP instance using EMB + Token.
5. Wait 3 hours for summoning with token.
6. Go to 2 if no token drops, else 4.
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#18 Minchi

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:07 PM

Well I finally have a class I can MVP with( finally got a Gen when I had a sorc/chaser). The new summoner sounds good but like everyone else I believe with the way it is currently set up it will only be widely used by insane mvpers or people bold enough to pay for the item requirement which is going to be overpriced. Please change it.
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#19 aquaria

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:19 PM

Previously before they changed it to require only EMB, per MVP needs a certain amt of MVP loots anyway. Example Eddga used to require 2 tiger skins to summon. Not to mention if you have summoned MVP before, you should have enough loots from the MVP unless you didn't pick them since they were useless.

If you don't and still wants to summon MVP, buy the required MVP drop from player. If you are too cheapo to buy them because they are overpriced (used to cost 500k - 1m per item), hunt that MVP normally for a start. But, you'll qq that there are competitors with god items and can't win...

Anyway, it would be great that the required item is a 50% drop from MVP (or change them to 50% drop rate). Since, (example) getting tiger skin to summon Eddga is not a hassle but getting Ora Ora (8% drop according to irowiki) to summon GTB is a pain! However, the problem is solved if any items drop by the MVP is acceptable (common item like elu, opb shouldnt be included).

Is it confirmed that the cd will be 3hrs instead of 10? Perhaps should just keep the 10hrs cd or make it 6hrs cd. I am sure that anyone that solo MVP will be able to kill 2 waves of minions.
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#20 Kiehl

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:58 PM

About the tokens that's quite surprising to hear since we were advised by you to change them in eden merit badges when the summoner left and now they are back as an MVP specific requirement... feeling is like I was trolled...
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#21 Akami

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:02 PM

I don't care if it's more expensive to use, just please. Don't make us party for it when we clearly don't want to.
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#22 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:11 PM

I don't like it at all. We're back to the 'only players who beat MVP's in the wild can summon MVP's here' thing (completely defeats the purpose of being able to fight boss monsters without competition, which is why the mvp summoner was so attractive in the first place)

This is a good example of over-complicating something which doesn't need to be changed. The MVP summoner was already good and popular. If you want to add another mvp-related instance minigame, then make it something separate and leave the old MVP summoner alone, I say.

Instanced MVP hunts could have a smaller cooldown, be less costly, etc at the expense of being hard to solo.

Come on Heim, you can clearly see that people don't want this. If anything, please reconsider the new 'mvp token' summoning requirement. I'd begrudgingly be ready to give this new system a go if I could still use merit badges to summon and not have to blow 3m every time on a piece of rosetta stone or whatever item is being sold at inflated prices by Suras and Genetics who camp and one-shot MVP's in their natural habitats.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 15 March 2012 - 07:14 PM.

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#23 Kadnya

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:18 PM

I don't know if we have been so spoiled long enough to not realize now that MVPs are supposed to be hard, non solo-able monsters, with a nice reward. Or like, *some* MVPs being soloable but requiring super gear and supplies.

MVPs in like, go in solo, kill the MVP in seconds, logout to save HE gum are really sad. I hope that the new summoning ends being a new fun option to poke with a small group once in a while.

Also, I think the requirement of the drop would block many players from using the summoner. It would be better if the limit is the EMB badge cost and the instance difficulty, not the extra requirement drops.
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#24 Ralis

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:22 PM

I agree that requiring the MVP token to summon is a bad idea. I'd much rather those items be readded to the Eden Merit Badge exchanger so people can use them to get the EMB required, but still have other options for summoning.
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#25 Froggems

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:25 PM

Those useless mvp trophy items will finally be worth something, .woohoo. Ant jaw for phreeoni, tiger skin for eddga, this sounds awesome.
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