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So what happened to my Summoner?


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#51 Xellie

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:31 AM

Why don't you all stop griping until you know WHAT the token is?
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#52 Shiroi17

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:38 AM

Ok so, summoner is being taken down because it is too easy and rewarding.
Revamped summoner, higher cost, with a 3 hour timer (Probably per character), added filler monsters time sink (1 or 2 minutes of killing garbage isn't much of a challenge lol).

I guess I should say thanks, since I've been hoarding crappy MVP items for ever, but for everyone else who is having issues to compete for MVP (Due to severe imbalance in class powers), good luck.


The old summoner was fine, it was too spammable but, all that was needed was to put it to "Once/Twice per day per account". Along with the option to summon with MVP token OR Eden merit badges (Farming badges blows and why would I want to do turn ins when you are 150/50 ...)


You are trying to defeat the purpose of the summoner thinking it'll fix it.
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#53 Myzery

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:41 AM

Why don't you all stop griping until you know WHAT the token is?


Pretty much what I was thinking, but maybe people are going on the track record of fxing things up to this point.
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#54 Shiroi17

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:49 AM

Why don't you all stop griping until you know WHAT the token is?


Everyone is assuming it'll be the same MVP token as before the eden merit badge update.
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#55 Xellie

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:52 AM

Well you know what they say about assuming things

To Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME
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#56 ultra39

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:58 AM

Cost to summon is some Eden Merit Badges and 1 item from the MVP


I don't think it gets much clearer than this. Whether it's a new item added to the MVP's drop table, or an already pre-existing one, it's still an item from the MVP.
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#57 Xellie

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:00 AM

So what wrong with that? People will sell the crappy drops from their bloody branches...
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#58 ultra39

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:46 AM

The problem is that you can't always get the MVP you're searching for through BBs and not everyone has access to a huge stockpile of them to spam through either. Being able to summon 1 MVP of your choice per day in a private room (solo or with friends of your choice) with your own resources is in no way a detriment to the economy, and was a nice little bonus to spend EMBs on. Maybe I just wasn't hardcore enough to abuse the old system; 1 Biochem killing Tao Gunka each day with an AB tank, but it might be solvable by tying the cooldown to the account, rather than the character.

With the newly proposed system, I think it would work best if it was on a 16-24 hour cooldown on the account (also enforcing the once a day rule), and only require EMBs. You could then use the MVP tokens along with additional EMBs to reset the cooldown every 3 hours like how Reset Stones work with the TIs now. Casual players get to experience the new summoner while enjoying its benefits once a day, while the hardcore hunters continue to hunt the MVPs and buy/sell/hoard the tokens to one another. It's probably the best solution I can come up with at the moment where the majority of the people would be happy.
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#59 Randomititiy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:48 AM

Why don't you all stop griping until you know WHAT the token is?

I can haz gripe now?

But honestly I already said what I wanted about it and I don't really see the reason for all the QQ and Pew Pew
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#60 Xellie

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:51 AM

The problem is that you can't always get the MVP you're searching for through BBs and not everyone has access to a huge stockpile of them to spam through either.


I said people will sell the drops, that means you can buy them...in order to do the summoning...

it worked fine in all previous incarnations of the summoner!

Edited by Xellie, 19 March 2012 - 06:51 AM.

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#61 ultra39

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:04 AM

Yeah, I run a pathetic 20m average on ygg (I hear this is a pretty low amount?). Without being close to geared out, I'm not exactly in a position to buy MVPs drops even just once a day. The most reliable way I have of making money right now is old school hunting g.natures and breaking them down. I seriously don't see what's wrong if they allowed you 1 summoning per day at the cost of only EMB(s). That means I might be able to collect some MVP drops and sell them to the people that want to hunt MVPs every 3 hours in addition to their BBing. If I get money, I start buying the gears I do need from others... I fail to see how this could be a problem at all since everyone seems to be complaining about how hard it is to sell certain high-end gears.
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#62 Xellie

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:06 AM

Tell me what a summonable MVP drops that will make you more money than hunting great natures in sleepers and breaking them into greenlives and NPCing them, or hunting Elu in dewata?

Regular mvp drops are CRAP. Complete and utter crap. They will not drop things to buy you gear.

edit: People mainly BB for exp. Not drops. That's just a side bonus that a card might drop.

Edited by Xellie, 19 March 2012 - 07:07 AM.

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#63 ultra39

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:28 AM

Unfortunately, I can't be on RO all day to farm g.natures or elu. The last time I broke down natures for money was at least a month ago, and it took me at least another month and a half to collect enough to just make 5m. If the drop(s) from summonable MVPs don't sell, then they don't sell. I'm not asking for some magical money making device. It may or may not be something on the side that might give me extra income that isn't 5m every 2-3 months.

And again, how exactly would it hurt the economy if such an option were implemented? Especially if the drops from the summonable MVPs are crap and won't sell? And the old summoning system before the EMB cost? Some of those didn't require MVP drops at all. If I had my biochem up around that time, I'd probably summon a different one than Tao Gunka each day instead.

Also, I mainly went after Tao for the exp with the side bonus if the card dropped.

Edited by ultra39, 19 March 2012 - 07:29 AM.

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#64 Xellie

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:33 AM

The fact that people summon 20+ taos a day hurts not the econ, but WoE. Overpowered cards should be kept as a rare spawn for a reason....
edit: anyway, overabundance of mvp drops is why they are worthless in the first place. So technically.... what you're saying would make them MORE worthless, where as if they are required to summon, they gain value, instead of getting NPCed.

You'll make more money in a shorter time hunting elu/ GNs. I promise.
About 2mil zeny an hour from GNs. Maybe you could greed orc dungeon!

I can collect almost 1000 elu in an hour in dewata. It's worth it. Almost every third class has some way of one shotting those things.

Edited by Xellie, 19 March 2012 - 07:40 AM.

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#65 ultra39

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:49 AM

I agree that there are cards/items that are overpowered. However, the problem are the card(s) themselves; Tao and many others need to be balanced out. I already mentioned many times in the past that there should be no game breaking items, only ones that should be BiS. If those changes could be made, even if there was a sudden influx of say, 100 Tao cards, it wouldn't end up wrecking the game. Unfortunately, iRO doesn't have the power to make those kinds of changes (damn, I wish they had that much more creative control). That's a completely different issue now, isn't it?

Also, you don't know how bad my luck works... Last time I was in Dewata for 2 hours, I came out with only around 60 elu on a 135 RG. This was on VIP too, but no gums. Yeah, I don't exactly have much real life monies to spend either /e5.
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#66 Loki1669

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:55 AM

The summoner has been around for a year or longer. It doesn't really matter what they do to it now. In other words, whatever they do can't make things worse (or even better) than they already are. Bloody Branches already throw in a ton of MVP card opportunities; the summoner is basically just a cheaper BB alternative.
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#67 Heimdallr

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:31 AM

Thank you for the feedback.

So I'm glad the extra challenge isn't the problem but rather the cost/reward and to a certain extent the MVP challenge.

Part of that challenge will come from having a mob on the floor with them (although certainly not an insurmountable challenge), but most of the monsters that the summoner can summon are somewhat considered middle and lower tiered challenge level MVPs, the biggest reward they give is XP, the huge xp chunks they give is actually rather broken regardless of anything that drops on the ground. I would expect that any MVP will drop enough in elu/ori and other normal drops stuff to more and pay for any token purchasing that would be needed, so you just need to supply the EMBs as per normal.

For increasing the item value of things that are dropped by the MVPs or significantly improving their combat capabilities is not something that is part of the summoner project, certainly I would love it and some players would too (others wouldn't). Right now I want to see how the Lighthalzen nightmare dungeon and monsters turn out for challenge level, if their AIs work more smartly with the new system then perhaps then veteran MVPs can be looked at for challenge improvement. Realistically all I can hope is that the additional monsters makes the time to completion add a bit of excitement and challenge.

Once we get it up for testing, we can possibly look at a "random MVP" option if you don't want to spend or have the token.
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#68 Kiehl

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:52 AM

The problem with tokens is that you would need to purchase them from those who are camping the MVPs on the fields (that doesn't need another extra advantage), and there is no guarantee that they will sell it at all rather than using them themselves for extra chances at the same MVP.
I also doubt that selling average drops would cover the costs, expecially for the most wanted MVPs.
Talking about EMB, before you exchanged them for those tokens, so you would need to get extra EMB; but EMB is not the issue, the issue is the token availability.
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#69 Heimdallr

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

The good thing if the tokens have a high player trading value that actually solves one issue. One of the complaints before is that many MVPs have nothing of value, if the otherwise useless tokens now have a value of over 50k that is a good thing for MVP hunters. And the random option for no token is an option.

Oh also getting wiped should still allow you to reenter your room as long as the 15 minutes didn't expire.
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#70 Myzery

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

Thank you for the feedback.

So I'm glad the extra challenge isn't the problem but rather the cost/reward and to a certain extent the MVP challenge.

Part of that challenge will come from having a mob on the floor with them (although certainly not an insurmountable challenge), but most of the monsters that the summoner can summon are somewhat considered middle and lower tiered challenge level MVPs, the biggest reward they give is XP, the huge xp chunks they give is actually rather broken regardless of anything that drops on the ground. I would expect that any MVP will drop enough in elu/ori and other normal drops stuff to more and pay for any token purchasing that would be needed, so you just need to supply the EMBs as per normal.

For increasing the item value of things that are dropped by the MVPs or significantly improving their combat capabilities is not something that is part of the summoner project, certainly I would love it and some players would too (others wouldn't). Right now I want to see how the Lighthalzen nightmare dungeon and monsters turn out for challenge level, if their AIs work more smartly with the new system then perhaps then veteran MVPs can be looked at for challenge improvement. Realistically all I can hope is that the additional monsters makes the time to completion add a bit of excitement and challenge.

Once we get it up for testing, we can possibly look at a "random MVP" option if you don't want to spend or have the token.


What about making it so that you can turn in a bloody branch and some zeny (or possibly items that an MvP drops) to summon a specific MvP?
They would be valued more in boxes if you ever bring them back and it would kind of put a stop to people using them in places where lowbies level to an extent.

I think it's a good idea personally. I want to know what Heim and everyone else thinks.
If you think it's too good, maybe you could put a cap on how many could be used a day like that.
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#71 meli

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

The good thing if the tokens have a high player trading value that actually solves one issue. One of the complaints before is that many MVPs have nothing of value, if the otherwise useless tokens now have a value of over 50k that is a good thing for MVP hunters. And the random option for no token is an option.


I think everyone's trying to tell you that some people can easily monopolize an mvp spawn and not sell the items, for their own usage, being smart you'll get to the conclusion that these people can easily overprice such items at will.
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#72 Nine

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

The time is more flexible, the cost is a little different, requiring a token from that MVP in addition to the EMB.


Requirement is unbalanced.
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#73 CheddarJack

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:27 AM

Oh also getting wiped should still allow you to reenter your room as long as the 15 minutes didn't expire.


Good i like this idea. Cause sometimes doing something on accident or a misclick can get you killed and its annoying not being able to go back. But this makes me happy ^_^
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#74 Myzery

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:28 AM

I think everyone's trying to tell you that some people can easily monopolize an mvp spawn and not sell the items, for their own usage, being smart you'll get to the conclusion that these people can easily overprice such items at will.


The MvPs from the summoner would also drop the items, right? I don't see a major problem really.
The point Heim is trying to get across is that the reward far exceeds the effort currently.
This whole thing is trial and error and you can't really get upset at him for tweaking and iRO specific thing to be balanced.
Be glad that you have it and give the proper feedback if you don't end liking it.
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#75 Myzery

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

Requirement is unbalanced.


It's really not. You get an extra chance at some of the best cards or items in the game.
A chance you would not have otherwise. This still brings the gap between people who play casually and people who live to play the game a bit closer.
Some people never get to experience MvPing and it gives them a chance to do so.

Heim is trying to prevent everyone from becoming lazy and expecting to be handed stuff.

A large chunk of the community is becoming like the people from Wall-e. Eventually you'll want mounts that carry you to specific loacations and MvPs that kill themselves.
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