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#26 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:46 AM

Drop penalties like this would be an absolute catastrophy. I don't think even kRO's drop penalties would work - how does kRO get their supplies? Their basic items?
Their blue herbs and SP items?
Can you imagine what this would do to the market, with it becoming impossible to farm the low level items that everyone needs for quests and skills?

I really don't think this is playable....


Also, when the level difference is very large, the penalties seem even harsher than doddlers claims... I've killed plenty of red/blue/etc plants at 5x level, and gotten nothing, when i'd expect a 22% chance based on doddler's numbers. (which of course defeats the whole point of the herb plants existing, but that's a different story)


Level 60 characters exist :(

They want you to exactly have a lv60 char and kill them with it instead of you 99~150 char.

Edited by Wanderer, 13 September 2010 - 05:47 AM.

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#27 Hrothmund

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:53 AM

Removed? Hell no.

Altered? I agree.

It's there for a few purposes, but my favorite is it is sort of an anti-bot measure. Though, if people vend said items, the price on them will be cataclysmic, I can understand the reasons why this method exists. Though for people that NEED to farm for certain items like elemental stones, this can be very troublesome and harsh on players. I think if you're 15~ levels LOWER then the monster, then the current rates are fine, but if you're 5~10~17 levels above it, the drops should be a bit more frequent.

Also, do these rates apply to MvP loots?

And I actually think the leveling system is fine as is. It stops power leveling and game breaking leveling methods (We've suffered those for a long LONG time now, so now people are used to it and demand the same.)


How do you propose a level 150 char farm items they need from a level 30 ish mob?

I'd suggest anyone that is FOR the drop penalty go play a game where it makes sense like Aion, Rising force etc. Take a good look at these games, because they have a myrad of ways for high level players to get low level loot without needing to make new chars like they're rolling god seals.

They generally revolve around being able to break down something dropped by a lvl 150 mob into a lower tier of item. RO doesnt have tiered items like that, and they dont seem to have put any thought into how players can gain these items.

The exp thing is fine, I think most players agree with that one. You can level on much higher stuff if you want to, infact the way its set up, anything higher than your "ideal" target monster gives roughly the same exp as your ideal mob after the exp penalties. For example while doing Henry's Marduk quest at lvl 70ish, I stopped in to kill some anubis which gave the same exp as marduk approximately.
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#28 Doddler

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:06 AM

So I kind of screwed up my initial post. I can't find when the Korean drop rate adjustment put on Sakray on July 28th 2010 was moved to main servers (so it's possible it never happened). What we do know from testing is that they greatly increased the range of monsters you can kill before observing a drop penalty.

Same Level: No change
+/- 30 levels: Small Penalty (estimated 80%~90%)
+/- 60 levels: Large Penalty (about 50%)

I imagine there's some gradient between the 30 level and 60 level penalty, something like 90%/80%/70%/50% for 30/40/50/60 level difference.
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#29 Prodigy

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:11 AM

Yes, they need to get rid of the drop penalty completely. iRO's servers don't have enough players to support such a thing. Not to mention its rather idiotic to put it in a game that requires getting drops from all levels of monsters for quests and such.

^QFT
We don't have the huge population that kRO and jRO does, so we won't be seeing a steady stream of goods from all level ranges which is what the drop penalty is encouraging for.
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#30 Kitten

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:29 AM

To those saying it's a valid antibot measure.. WAKE UP.

It won't stop bots. They don't even feel the penalty as they're not even playing the game. This is no different than when the Mimic and Myst Case Cards were nerfed. Now the only players who can equip these and actually profit are bots because they're the only ones who will be grinding a map for days at a time. Nerfs mean zero to bots, as they will always be able to trump real players when it comes to the amount of time they can realistically spend on a map.
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#31 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:37 AM

It has nothing to do with bot measures, renewal isn't meant to resolve that problem.
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#32 Haldor

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:42 AM

I'm sure this has been answered before, so sorry, but does the penalty work the same way with steal/gank?
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#33 Ghost007

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:39 AM

I agree with no drop penalty, unless we have tons of new players actually come, there is no reason for a drop penalty. If new players do come add in that 30 and 60% drop penalty thing,except for mvps, for now keep no penalty.
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#34 Pingchan

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:09 AM

Players would have to keep making new characters over and over just to hunt the basics (low level cards, stuff like herbs and p.spores). Bots would do the exact same thing. The difference is, the bots won't get tired of doing it.
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#35 Cubical

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:28 AM

Another thing about drop penalties.... penalties for being levels BELOW the monster make no sense.

i completely agree with this
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#36 ZeroTigress

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:22 AM

The drop rate wouldn't be so much of a problem if ingredient items (i.e. stems, iron, gems, etc.) dropped more commonly from monsters of ALL level ranges and not just low level monsters. In RO's current state post-Renewal, nothing has been done to modify item drops so this drop rate penalty is causing more harm than good. If nothing is done about item drops and this drop rate gets implemented, it'll be the final nail in the crafting system's coffin.

Korean players must be masochists if they consider this fun.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 13 September 2010 - 11:22 AM.

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#37 GuardianTK

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 02:21 PM

imo the drop penalty is going to make people want to bot more. >_> I can also see how it would hurt the premium players more than Valkyrie.
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#38 Valadez

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 02:27 PM

I can see bots benefiting from this more. I'm sure they could easily make a char, level him from place to place with worthwhile loots and the remake him once it starts to get difficult on basic gears.

I can understand that new players need a way onto the market and I think experience items on Ymir are fantastic for that but we really don't have enough new players to supply the mass load of veterans. All I can see happening is players ending up supplying more zenny to zenny sellers due to being unable to realistically hunt the items they want themselves.
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#39 BlackPotato

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:31 PM

drop penalty only encourages botting. enough said.
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#40 BlackPotato

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:33 PM

Players would have to keep making new characters over and over just to hunt the basics (low level cards, stuff like herbs and p.spores). Bots would do the exact same thing. The difference is, the bots won't get tired of doing it.


actually, wouldnt matter if its a level 99 priest bot it can just go do it for hours and hours and hours and still get items. players would be forced to do this for bomb items, quest items (jellopy for almost ALL entrance quests much?) such a pain in the ass they need to adjust this crap immediately
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#41 Kitten

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:14 PM

I hate thinking how much catalyst items like Bombs and EDP will be... I mean look at their prices now.

Imagine what they will be should the drop penalty remain unchanged.
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#42 Heimdallr

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:15 PM

There is some work to put the basic components onto higher level monsters, but that isn't as easy as say.. splatting a mandragora for stems.

The drop penalty is being reviewed as one of the "hot topics".

MVPs are not effected at all by a drop penalty so that shouldn't be a problem.
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#43 Soukosa

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:53 PM

Its not just basic components here that are at risk, there's some decent equipment that's still highly useful in the high levels that drops from lower level monsters and not MVPs. For instance, the best non-godly mace in the game right now drops from Anolians and they're just over lv 100. So what's that lv 150 Sura gonna do when they want to make some decent maces for MVPing or whatever? Can't expect a huge amount of people to be constantly leveling on Anolians or someone to keep a character in range to hunt it. While the penalty may not be as huge for something like that, its still there making it that much harder to get it.
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#44 Puppet

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:32 PM

currently how this drop rate penalty is, IT WILL screw the economy up even more on Supplies and cards make things insanely expensive. IT might work if we ACTUALY HAD new people playing this game, but we do not and rarely ever get influxes of new people.
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#45 Parabola

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:51 AM

Players would have to keep making new characters over and over just to hunt the basics (low level cards, stuff like herbs and p.spores).


Or just plain have a character at the exact level that we reskill to 0% each time it gets close to leveling. Ugh.
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#46 Pingchan

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 12:18 PM

^That, too. Either way, horribly annoying. If iRO can do things differently from kRO, why can't we get rid of this horrible system? Is there any GOOD reason to keep it? -_-
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#47 ZeroTigress

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 12:38 PM

Its not just basic components here that are at risk, there's some decent equipment that's still highly useful in the high levels that drops from lower level monsters and not MVPs. For instance, the best non-godly mace in the game right now drops from Anolians and they're just over lv 100. So what's that lv 150 Sura gonna do when they want to make some decent maces for MVPing or whatever? Can't expect a huge amount of people to be constantly leveling on Anolians or someone to keep a character in range to hunt it. While the penalty may not be as huge for something like that, its still there making it that much harder to get it.

^THIS. Also a big problem with RO; a lot of good stuff simply are mainly found and easier to obtain from low level monsters. Logically one would think that the stronger the monster, the better the drops, but for RO that's not the case at all. Implementing such drop penalties make no sense because RO simply is too different from other MMORPGs.
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#48 TheGuindo

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:12 PM

It's there for a few purposes, but my favorite is it is sort of an anti-bot measure.


Except it doesn't work as an anti-bot measure at all. Bots are tireless. They have no problem running around on the same map for days farming items with lower drop rates. Human players are going to be less inclined to run through the hoops they need to in order to find the items they need to level, and botting will seem more lucrative. The penalty may be there to discourage botting, but it's really going to have the opposite effect.
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#49 Prodigy

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:53 PM

^THIS. Also a big problem with RO; a lot of good stuff simply are mainly found and easier to obtain from low level monsters. Logically one would think that the stronger the monster, the better the drops, but for RO that's not the case at all. Implementing such drop penalties make no sense because RO simply is too different from other MMORPGs.

^This
Let's take a look at ROSE for example (though many other popular MMOs follow this trend). In ROSE, you change to better weapons approximately every 15~20 levels. Of course, to go hand in hand with that, monsters every 15~20 levels drop you the appropriate weapon. However, this is not the case for RO. In RO, one of the best books (and I'm just using books an example because it's easy) is the Principles of Magic which one can start using at level 60, and it drops from a level 84 Mavka. So, here you are, as a level 150 character, and you're still chasing after a level 84 mob because that's where the best book drops from. Going back to ROSE, a level 200+ character killing lvl 200+ mobs will drop lvl 200+ equipments.
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#50 Carlossus

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:59 PM

So with regards to equips, the game mechanics are actually sound, it's just the drop tables need adjusting and new gear injected into the game which distributes things so high end monsters drop the high end gear, mid range/mid tier etc.

The only thing that cant be adjusted so simply though is cards, here's hoping Heim is correct in thinking they are unaffected by the drop changes.
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