58 replies to this topic

[Sera]

I'm real sorry for the double post here, but I just wanted to say that I feel very badly shortchanged by renewal.

Overnight, I went from playing the most powerful melee damage dealer in the game to playing a Vanilmirth with Focused Arrow Strike.

Seriously, WHAT THE-_-

[Carlossus]

Afterplaying with amon ra, I decided to do some tests quick on the ancient mummies. I know my setup isnt great, my stats are test stats (although I'm finding hybrid much better then specialization, at least in strength) and the target could be better, but all in all should give a relative indication of skill strengths etc.

Melee


Axe Boomerang


Power Swing


Cart Revolution


Axe Tornado


High Speed Cart Ram


Mammo


FAW Silver Sniper



oh after doing their whopping 600 per hit (pretty slow aspd too) the FAWS had enough after one fight and disappeared =/ Didnt have brigans to test the magic FAW out.

[Doddler]

Doddler said somewhere else that mechanics are great in strings because they don't have cast times for many of their skills. What he neglects to mention is that the 'good' skills all have a cast time or require you to be standing right next to the enemy (ie, not in strings).

Not exactly correct. What I meant was that most of the cast times for mechanic are variable cast time- lots of their skills have no fixed portion. That means that you can get 'instant' cast on a mechanic, or at least rather close to it. Strings plus cast reducing gear of any kind should do the trick.

Edited by Doddler, 16 September 2010 - 05:56 AM.

[Sera]

Cart Ram and Axe Tornado are okay in PVM, nothing really special, but they're not bad. PVP/WoE options though are pretty restricted from what I've seen running around in PVP at the moment.

I'm assuming a character will go 150/50 with reasonable speed, but I can't really see any viable end-game for the class.

Personally, I would trade all the mech skills just to have one decent skill like Hell Gate, Shadow Formation, Clashing Spiral, etc.

Here's a series of videos some guy posted in another thread of a mechanic player on kRO:
http://www.youtube.c...ser/LyovMyshkin

If you watch the videos without the mado, you'll notice he's pretty much the post-renewal equivalent of a crit sinx.
He never really kills anything without serious assistance, and when he does, it's like a warlock or something.

If you watch the videos with the mado, he snaps around using a cold skill that I haven't gotten the chance to use yet. It doesn't seem to really deal any damage, as I never saw anyone pot it or die from it.
He uses Arm Cannon on level 3 to try to kill people (never really saw him succeed), and at level 1 to attack a wide area, possibly with status(?) (this is currently broken in iRO, as level 1 has same range as level 3).

The main tactic is to snap into a horde of people who are not paying any attention, detonate the mado, and then relog. The AoE on the detonation is pretty small though he used it right next to a recall and killed like three people? (assuming it kills anything it hits)
Also, something seems to be able to block it, pneuma? Because I saw an archbishop who should have been hit by it, but she did not seem affected. Maybe an ally?

Edited by Sera, 16 September 2010 - 08:55 AM.

[DrAzzy]

While self-destruct may be brokenly damaging, it's really not sufficient (nor fun for most people) to have a class that's only really effective as a suicide bomber. They've got all these skills that seem pretty cool, but which just don't quite measure up...

A mado is supposed to be an awesome mechanical weapon of war, not a palestinian vest.

Most of the time, it should be more useful to have it working than to blow it up in a crowd.

[Sera]

The best way to PVP is to snap around and grief people with the cold skill. With a 120/120 dex/int build, it deals about 4k per cast in PVP, which isn't bad even though it is not a spammable skill. It is a pretty wide range AoE and it's pretty hard to get out of. Freeze status does not proc as often as I would like though.

Then when you finally get fed up with not-killing people you go stand in the middle of everyone and detonate.

Acid Bomb was dealing 26k damage per cast to me, though this was not enough to OHKO me from full HP, and I was usually able to snap out of range and pot back up before they could cast again.

The snap skill makes you probably the most mobile unit in the game, which is actually pretty impressive.

Edited by Sera, 16 September 2010 - 09:51 AM.

[DrAzzy]

26k acid bomb? , i thought that got nerfed! :-D
Hell ya!

[Doddler]

26k acid bomb? , i thought that got nerfed! :-D
Hell ya!

It has a 1 second fixed cast time, so in that aspect it's nerfed, but it definitely does more damage.

[BlackPotato]

While self-destruct may be brokenly damaging, it's really not sufficient (nor fun for most people) to have a class that's only really effective as a suicide bomber. They've got all these skills that seem pretty cool, but which just don't quite measure up...

A mado is supposed to be an awesome mechanical weapon of war, not a palestinian vest.

Most of the time, it should be more useful to have it working than to blow it up in a crowd.

+1 you made me laugh with that one. Its the equivalent that the mado gear is useless compared to using just the cart, since none of the smith skills are available to it in its form. Would be same if ranger was better w/o the warg, then what was the point of making it in the 1st place

[Susan]

+1 you made me laugh with that one. Its the equivalent that the mado gear is useless compared to using just the cart, since none of the smith skills are available to it in its form. Would be same if ranger was better w/o the warg, then what was the point of making it in the 1st place

well, they completly failed to add skills that are SMITH skill's upgrades (creating items, boosting peoples weapons+armor, repairing gear, using hot iron, swinging HAMMERS)

all the classes got improvements that match their 2nd classes, while mechanics got their 2nd class skill REMOVED.

[Sera]

I also noticed that seriously playing the class causes you to go through a truly ridiculous amount of fuel. I used 150 in like 5 minutes of PVP... the time it takes for magnetic field to be recast.

On an unrelated note, I got really happy when I saw Divest FAW. I thought this would be a turret that tries to divest people in range. Unfortunately, it's just engrish for "remove turret."

Edited by Sera, 16 September 2010 - 01:08 PM.

[Susan]

On an unrelated note, I got really happy when I saw Divest FAW. I thought this would be a turret that tries to divest people in range. Unfortunately, it's just engrish for "remove turret."

Except you have to use a 500z item and you won't get the steel / iron.

It's like remove traps except you dont get the traps back but have to pay zeny.

[Nyroeon]

At least Gravity stayed true to their idea that anything Smith class needs to spend money to do anything. This is what the fourth gen Smith class will look like:

"Spend 50z to move one cell."
"Spend 1,000z to put a skill on your hotkey bar."
"Spend 50,000z to purchase an item from a player vend, plus the zeny the item cost."
"Spend 1,250z to sit down, an additional 3z for every HP and SP recovered."

I just want to know... why so many item requirements?

[Kinnay]

Axe Tornado - It's a decent skill, but the cooldown prevents it from being really useful. Again, would have been nice to have as a trans skill maybe. For max damage, it requires a wind property weapon, which is a questionable limitation that seems to have been put on there because someone in Korea thought it would have been cool.

Yeah, I agree with this. For some reason though it gives me an inkling they MAY allow the use of maces with Axe Tornado. Mjolnir is Wind Property. Coincidence?

kRO hasn't gotten Mech balancing patch yet either... We can hope.

[Verlai]

It's pretty dumb how your own skills will damage FAWs. And that other people can attack them anywhere.

[Sera]

I didn't really find the FAWs worth using at all.

Said this previously, but it seems Front Slide / Back Slide, Cold Slower, Infrared Scan, Arm Cannon, Suicidal Destruction, and the necessary passive pre-requisites seems to be the best build for the class.

[Sera]

Today I realized why the mado suit is as difficult and annoying to acquire as it is.

This is because of Suicidal Destruction.

I believe they want to prevent people from using it in WoE, using a Ygg, summoning it again, and then using it. By forcing you to return to town to get the mado suit back, they prevent people from easily using it as asura was in the past.

Personally, I would rather they just remove suicidal destruction.

Fixes I would like to see on the class:

- Magnetic Field cooldown reduced to like 10 seconds longer than the skill lasts. It's not like a lot of the other skills that prevent a player from actually doing anything. You can still use ranged attacks when you're locked in it.

- Remove Suicidal Destruction and make the mado suit a normal mount

- Add an "electric jolt" attack in place of destruction that deals AoE damage to magnetic locked targets in an AoE based around your mech, including yourself if you happen to get caught in it. The PVP damage of this skill should be about 5k per jolt in my opinion, and be usuable multiple times, but not spammable.

[Brindizer]

I would like to see Suicidal Destruction stay, but changed. It definitely doesn't make sense to me why you lose the Mado when you die when there's a death sprite for it. Suicidal Destruction should just kill you, forcing you to respawn, but keeping the Mado. This will prevent its abuse in WoE, as well as removing the irritation of losing the suit when you die.

Alternatively, the skill "Mado License" could be used to acquire a Mado, but have a long re-use delay. This way you can get a new suit, spin like a lunatic and detonate yourself, then chill as a Master Smith until the delay to acquire a new suit is over. Of course, the same delay should be applied for the self destruction skill as well to prevent "Boom, Suit, Boom" if you've had the suit for awhile.

Edited by Brindizer, 17 September 2010 - 06:20 PM.

[BlackPotato]

I would like to see Suicidal Destruction stay, but changed. It definitely doesn't make sense to me why you lose the Mado when you die when there's a death sprite for it. Suicidal Destruction should just kill you, forcing you to respawn, but keeping the Mado. This will prevent its abuse in WoE, as well as removing the irritation of losing the suit when you die.

Alternatively, the skill "Mado License" could be used to acquire a Mado, but have a long re-use delay. This way you can get a new suit, spin like a lunatic and detonate yourself, then chill as a Master Smith until the delay to acquire a new suit is over. Of course, the same delay should be applied for the self destruction skill as well to prevent "Boom, Suit, Boom" if you've had the suit for awhile.

just disable the skill in woe. easy fix for that

[Temo]

A Delay for Suicidal Destruction would be the best thing to do, that only relogging could bypass it. Or not even that, because the re-mount is kinda retarded. Why could they be afraid to turn mechanics into an alternative to Champ/Sura? =/

[Sera]

Well, if you could just resummon the mount, think about it, a guild recalls, Suicide, Ygg, Suicide, Ygg, Suicide, Ygg, etc.

To be fair though, it's not like Dragon's Breath doesn't deal respectable damage and hit about the same area anyway.

The class really gets screwed over in terms of delays compared to other classes though. Yeah, our cast times aren't too bad, but the delays mean you can only really use the skill once per rush, so if you mess up or misclick something, you basically don't get a second chance.

I really think the class was designed with the intention of creating a pre-cast breaker class, unfortunately with Hover not working correctly and the small radius of our support skills, I don't feel the class can really live up to that.

[Doddler]

Personally what I think they should do is add an item that gives you the MADO suit. Then, they could block its use within castles to make it balanced. Make it cost 10k or whatever and weigh a whole bunch.

[Sera]

Weigh a whole bunch is bad imo.

The class already has enough weight limit issues as it is.

If they do make it weigh a lot, then reduce the weight of cannonballs, fuel, liquid condensed bullets, pile bunker, and the seven other accessories that you need to be carrying as well. Not to mention the potions if you're using repair.

Also, it would help if we were not required to equip the accessories for the skills in order to use them, because to actually play the class, you practically cannot use any accessories except the ones they make you use.

Edited by Sera, 18 September 2010 - 04:05 PM.

[Clogon]

You don't need to equip them, just have them in the inventory IIRC. But yeah they weigh a TON. They could just make it so that you have to equip the set of equipment to use the "Summon Mado" skill and give it a 5 min reuse delay.

Edit:
IE: Mechanic Headgear + Pilebunker + Flame Thrower + any 2 accessories = given skill to summon Mado that has 5 min reuse delay.

Edited by Clogon, 18 September 2010 - 05:10 PM.

[Sera]

On the first page where I discuss the skills, I mention which are required to have equipped and which you can just have in your inventory.

Most importantly, Suicidal Device and Hovering Device are required to be equipped.