145 replies to this topic

[wonderful]

Working a job, for hours a day, and spending that money on the kafra shop is an effort in itself. More so than sitting on your ass staring at the screen all day.

[TheSquishy]

Working a job, for hours a day, and spending that money on the kafra shop is an effort in itself. More so than sitting on your ass staring at the screen all day.

No it's not, It's dumb to throw your spare cash so carelessly in virtual goods with no real world value.
Virtual cash shops are up there with bar hopping as huge waste of income.

But try to understand this, we want players to be more engaged in their game world interactions. Cash shop handouts of certain kinds encourages people to disregard the community and not plan for a long term play experience.
People who buy a weeks worth of manuals and blues, bolt to 99 then, then reset to whatever piece of crap have no vested interest in the character and don't hang around and spend much less in the long-term.

Edited by TheSquishy, 27 June 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[wonderful]

That's your opinion though.

You say, virtual goods are a waste, yet you ramble on and on about people should hunt for their gear(spending time hunting something that doesn't exist irl), work hard(in a community that technically doesn't exist irl too), that they should earn their levels 'earnestly'. The items obviously do have real world value, albeit in an underground market. If you're going to say, 'its free, so real money involved', no its not. You don't get paid by the hour(in time) for no reason. As they say, time is money.
You also like to talk about freedom of builds, yet here you are dictating how people should be leveling, spending the money they earned, trying to force people to interact with each other, forcing your views onto people as though they are absolute and so forth.

[TheSquishy]

I'm telling you to not break the game for your own benefit, when certain restrictions helps the community and long term income of the server. People not speeding through the game on easy mode and hanging around for a few months, making friends and growing the community are all desirable outcomes for an MMO.

Edited by TheSquishy, 27 June 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[wonderful]

You're assuming pvm is the thing that keeps everything alive.

But you know what? Money also helps keep the server alive.

[Myzery]

We want people back to earning the right to play unique and special builds.
Making the zeny to sponsor a leech is an achievement and takes effort in itself.
Being charismatic enough to convince random people to leech you for free is also an achievement.
Having a guild organized enough to leech utility characters ur ass better show up to woe*kudos

However you get there, there should be some effort on the part of the player.

Some support builds are easier to level than others, so the amount of effort isn't really anything special.
I leveled 2 vit rogues to 99 - 1 in stings and 1 in goats. I leveled a vit dancer to 99 in stings as well. I leveled a str/int monk in sleepers to 99.
I personally don't care how anyone else levels. If someone enjoys being agi/dex - let them be agi/dex and reset into something for WoE later on. In the end they still worked harder than someone who bots. There will be many 99s that botted at least part of the way.

Edited by Myzery, 27 June 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[Myzery]

Working a job, for hours a day, and spending that money on the kafra shop is an effort in itself. More so than sitting on your ass staring at the screen all day.

Not knocking you for tossing money at the kafra shop. If you play the game resourcefully, you'll never need to spend a dime and can save that money for other things.

[wonderful]

It makes more sense and gives more impact to have someone physically working to compare to sitting on my ass than it is to compare sitting on my ass to sitting on my ass.

[pdub]

No it's not, It's dumb to throw your spare cash so carelessly in virtual goods with no real world value.
Virtual cash shops are up there with bar hopping as huge waste of income.

But try to understand this, we want players to be more engaged in their game world interactions. Cash shop handouts of certain kinds encourages people to disregard the community and not plan for a long term play experience.
People who buy a weeks worth of manuals and blues, bolt to 99 then, then reset to whatever piece of crap have no vested interest in the character and don't hang around and spend much less in the long-term.

The f2p / cash shop business model is the way of the future. As a gamer, it does kind of suck - I'd rather buy the game (and pay a subscription if mmo) as opposed to playing cash shop games. The debate is really getting old, however. It's not dumb if you have spare cash. I suppose it depends on your definition of spare cash, to me that's disposable income - left over money you have to spend on things like entertainment, and whatever else you enjoy.

For many people, it's not money that is the issue - it's TIME. Some people are willing to spend real money in order to speed up leveling and whatnot in games. If i can get 150% experience and level faster, that's saving time. If money is not an issue, and time IS an issue, it's arguably smarter to just throw some money at it so you can make the most of your time in-game.

I agree it's dumb to spend your cash on virtual goods if your priorities are out of line and you should be saving your money, paying bills, etc. The same goes for many things though - alcohol, gambling, etc. People like to spend their money on things that make them happy. If you have the money to spend, and it makes you happy, how is that dumb?

In the case of f2p cash shop games, I find it absolutely hilarious that people complain so much about the f2p model. People complain about how it's pay to win, etc. I think many of them are younger, and they don't have any money to spend, so they're jealous or whatever. The bottom line is, just remember why free to play games are free - it's because of the people who are willing to spend their cash and support the games they like.

If there was no Kafra shop, it's very unlikely you would be playing RO 10 years after it's original release. It's kind of ignorant to go around calling people dumb for supporting the games that you like to play.

Edited by pdub, 27 June 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[TheSquishy]

I fully support F2P model and wasting money on hobbies, but one should not be self-deceived and think that it's a good way to invest your income. But no one is doubting the virtues or sins of the kafra shop.

The issue is over accelerated game play as compared to a more metered experience.
Renewal is the proof that over accelerated game play contributes to attrition of community members.
If it takes you an extra month to grind out a specialty build you are more likely to spend waaaay more in kafra resources than the price of a single reset stone. Controlling resets is a win/win for community and cash shop purchases

[wonderful]

So why can't you be a slow poke by yourself and not drag other people down with you?

[pdub]

So why can't you be a slow poke by yourself and not drag other people down with you?

it really just boils down to matter of opinion. Some people don't like f2p, some people like f2p, ultimately everyone should get used to it because online games are businesses and that's the direction the industry is shifting. It's more profitable, especially long term.

This is really off topic and starting to get old though. When are we gonna hear about stat resets?

[Valkayre]

I see that many ppl do not like the resetter, but its also important to consider that there will be players new RO. They might get upset if they mess any of their stats, ending up quitting, friends start quitting too, and so on, like a domino effect.

Personally, I don't like resetter.
I check calculators and skill tree simulators before making any change to my skill points or base points, but as I said, some ppl in RO do not know these tools exist.

Edited by Valkayre, 28 June 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[Kiryu]

I see that many ppl do not like the reseter, but its also important to consider that there are new RO players might get upset if they mess any of their stats and end up quitting, and friends start quitting, and so on, like a domino effect. Of course a reseter that isnt cheap. I dunno.

Personally, I don't like resetter.
I check calculators and skill tree simulators before making any change to my skill points or base points, but as I said, some ppl in RO do not know these tools exist.

Well there was one thing... usually you will know by elvel 40 you were screw and was easy to level to that point compare to renewal.

Pre-renewal = Low levels awfully fast, upper levels similar to period cramps and water retention
renewal = slow first levels, fast upper levels

[idonothaveanname]

I see that many ppl do not like the reseter, but its also important to consider that there are new RO players might get upset if they mess any of their stats and end up quitting, and friends start quitting, and so on, like a domino effect. Of course a reseter that isnt cheap. I dunno.

Personally, I don't like resetter.
I check calculators and skill tree simulators before making any change to my skill points or base points, but as I said, some ppl in RO do not know these tools exist.

New players really shouldn't start on this server. Its meant to be more difficult leveling wise. My recommendation for any new players reading this, who are considering joining the Classic server from all of the hype, I urge you to try Renewal first. In Renewal, with a fresh account, it is possible to get to 3rd job class within a month or two. With that you will have plenty of time to try out different characters to see what you like. And you get one free reset incase you decide you don't like your build.

Classic is down to the barebones of what made Ragnark Ragnarok. Its the same world with the same classes and the same monsters. Except you don't get special gears like the eden equipment. You can't buy bless/agi scrolls or light blue pots to ease the leveling. And what you make is what you get. Its all about perfecting the class of your choice. In renewal its typicall for players to have 9+ characters. However in Classic, as for maxing your characters, people may only have one or two for a while.

[Beata]

Permanent one time stat/skill reset once we get trans update on Classic but not an infinite option to reset.

Edited by Beata, 28 June 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[TheUraharaShop]

The stats a player gets is bound by the game mode they play and the skills they get. Because you can reset your skills and the game modes aren't really defined clearly. If there were a clear pull for players to do PVE and there was a creation of new WoE content (ways to collect supply's and level) the stat reset would only be a shave.

Taking 20 pts off the stats to be reallocated for players looking for that precise stream line build. However a full stat reset only undermines the integrity of the game for players who do make a Pure (fill in the blank) Character.


What is the point of even trying to make a character that is the best at a certain skills if some cash can turn in the Joe Blow in to the same thing? It undermines your accomplishments

[Zinja]

What is the point of even trying to make a character that is the best at a certain skills if some cash can turn in the Joe Blow in to the same thing? It undermines your accomplishments

which is why we need to know bout this before the server starts.

[MikeyMassacre]

No it's not, It's dumb to throw your spare cash so carelessly in virtual goods with no real world value.
Virtual cash shops are up there with bar hopping as huge waste of income.

But try to understand this, we want players to be more engaged in their game world interactions. Cash shop handouts of certain kinds encourages people to disregard the community and not plan for a long term play experience.
People who buy a weeks worth of manuals and blues, bolt to 99 then, then reset to whatever piece of crap have no vested interest in the character and don't hang around and spend much less in the long-term.

iRO is the type of game where you do not rush anything, you take your time at your own pace and have fun while doing it. I absolutely agree with this. If you ruin your experience with the game first hand, your not going to last a couple months, your going to get bored and just quit.

[Oda]

No stat resets at launch, if it does get put in for the future it would be a full stat reset-the old way of partial stat reallocation was hell on the GM team.

[Riotz]

No stat resets at launch, if it does get put in for the future it would be a full stat reset-the old way of partial stat reallocation was hell on the GM team.

Thanks for the reply.