52 replies to this topic

[matrixEXO]

Shadow Chaser Skill : Masquerade Gloomy.

Sorry, I am gonna weep in the corner now. I just don't know much about most classes so I got that down very wrongly.

Have you seen the new alternatives, btw? Which do you think should be more balanced out. I feel some of them may need some balancing effect but...

[WolfTri]

That will be handy, the new replacement for close confine. It'll work perfectly, although it might be overpowered coz 100% damage reflect while being able to use skills is somewhat OP..
How about it reduces the target's agi considerably (since this is the resistance stat for masquerades), it wont be as overpowered as a 100% damage reflect

[matrixEXO]

It's not totally damage deflect since the SC still gets injured. Also, I doubt that you would want to build a 120 Vit SC unless you think you are gonna build tank SC, in which case there are better tanks that can hold the lines better. That said, OP might be plausible for the current state (after we include Shadow Formation, which is basically 200% damage deflect with 0% damage receive). Might have to reconsider the effects. Still need touching T.T

[WolfTri]

Shadow form is 100% reflect, 0 received, but you cannot pot while in shadow form. In this however, you can pot and use skills. And SC's have the second highest HP mod in the game, first is RK. Also, with rogue spirit, ranked slims heal the chaser for 2x that of a ranked slim on any other char. So even a 100vit SC can outpot damage that many classes could not.

Edited by WolfTri, 05 January 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[matrixEXO]

Shadow form is 100% reflect, 0 received, but you cannot pot while in shadow form. In this however, you can pot and use skills. And SC's have the second highest HP mod in the game, first is RK. Also, with rogue spirit, ranked slims heal the chaser for 2x that of a ranked slim on any other char. So even a 100vit SC can outpot damage that many classes could not.

I forgot about Soul Link effect. Thank you for reminding me. I gotta go do more research next time, rather than just tossing an idea into the idea pot.

[ALSJ]

While I like the thought of Quest skills for 3rd Classes, I also like to impose limits to control such things or aid others. If it were up to me, I'd only allow Quest skills for 3rds if they didn't transcend. Before some elite rolls in, I'll give my reasoning.

Aside from having no choice as a Baby class, what incentive is there for going directly to 3rd class from Base 2nd? None. You'll be frowned upon and goaded to to transcend. So why not give something to that route to make it an acceptable alternative to playing the classes? Elites would turn up their noses, so they would need to be adjusted to make up for bypassing transcendence, though the main difference of extra skill points and higher HP/SP will still be Transcendent exclusive. What if non-transcendents had access to quest skills where they would have to perform daily quests to level them up? There would be a certain number of "quest skill points" they would be able to utilize to level up these skills to create a limit, plus the skills don't all have to be watered down variants of transcendent skills, like some would think. This could potentially bring back older styles or help lesser used skills.

I'll use Royal Guard as an example. From Crusader to Paladin to Royal Guard, the class gets progressively more offensive. So for Crusader to Royal Guard, there could be quest skills that stress more towards MATK (Grand Cross), Support (I don't mean skills that actually damage to cause a side effect, but dressed up as "support"), and downplaying offense with defense (obvious).

Now for the crappy part of hastily crafting a couple example skills:

Righteousness (Passive)

The Royal Guard's unshakeable Faith in God only grows as their own power develops.

Every point in Faith boosts the MATK portion of Grand Cross and Genesis Ray by (Skill Level*10)%. Every point in this skill lowers the HP casting cost of Grand Cross by (Skill Level)%, for a maximum of 10%. Improves Heal potency by (Skill Level*1.5)%. 10 Levels.

Instigation (Active):

A loud taunt intended to rouse enemies, while strengthening one's own resolve. Use a special Provoke to all enemies in range to attack the caster for (Skill Level * 3) seconds. The number of provoked targets affected will boost the DEF of the caster. 5 Levels.

[DarkenCloud]

Since when do those skills remove people from riding the dragon? Fail suggestion to bring to the table. Go get yourself a mount and play properly rather than leaving your equipment window open to accidentally click the "Off" button. But seriously, there is nothing in the game that can forcibly dismount the user except for Mechanic's 'Suicidal Destruction' skill.

I think you are newbie in RO. SC skill easily can remove your dragon (not only dragon, but also gryphon and pecos). Dragon training is really really useless with 5 skill points.

[Sully]

Me No Likey Gen One D:
1 Is For Potting Other Is For Homun.. Which Mine Is Already Max Lvl.. Soo It has Alot Of Max Stats ;D

[matrixEXO]

While I like the thought of Quest skills for 3rd Classes, I also like to impose limits to control such things or aid others. If it were up to me, I'd only allow Quest skills for 3rds if they didn't transcend. Before some elite rolls in, I'll give my reasoning.

Aside from having no choice as a Baby class, what incentive is there for going directly to 3rd class from Base 2nd? None. You'll be frowned upon and goaded to to transcend. So why not give something to that route to make it an acceptable alternative to playing the classes? Elites would turn up their noses, so they would need to be adjusted to make up for bypassing transcendence, though the main difference of extra skill points and higher HP/SP will still be Transcendent exclusive. What if non-transcendents had access to quest skills where they would have to perform daily quests to level them up? There would be a certain number of "quest skill points" they would be able to utilize to level up these skills to create a limit, plus the skills don't all have to be watered down variants of transcendent skills, like some would think. This could potentially bring back older styles or help lesser used skills.

I'll use Royal Guard as an example. From Crusader to Paladin to Royal Guard, the class gets progressively more offensive. So for Crusader to Royal Guard, there could be quest skills that stress more towards MATK (Grand Cross), Support (I don't mean skills that actually damage to cause a side effect, but dressed up as "support"), and downplaying offense with defense (obvious).

Now for the crappy part of hastily crafting a couple example skills:

Righteousness (Passive)

The Royal Guard's unshakeable Faith in God only grows as their own power develops.

Every point in Faith boosts the MATK portion of Grand Cross and Genesis Ray by (Skill Level*10)%. Every point in this skill lowers the HP casting cost of Grand Cross by (Skill Level)%, for a maximum of 10%. Improves Heal potency by (Skill Level*1.5)%. 10 Levels.

Instigation (Active):

A loud taunt intended to rouse enemies, while strengthening one's own resolve. Use a special Provoke to all enemies in range to attack the caster for (Skill Level * 3) seconds. The number of provoked targets affected will boost the DEF of the caster. 5 Levels.

I can see your point but the fact is that XP required by Trans takes extreme proportions. Other than that, I really felt that 3rd classes should be trans-only. Either that, or a 3rd trans where you MUST get 150 on normal 3rd class to trans. This way, less is gonna happen and more tactical layouts get driven. But what can we do when the people at Gravity starts to get lazy from their fat wallets due to their game (RO) getting demand (not high, just decent) to be played even to this day.

And as for your point about the skills being non-trans only, I cannot agree with you. It's like punishing non-baby players who wanted to make trans for the sake of more skills and more HP/SP as something wrong to be done. While just having 1 skill may not look like much, it does create that sort of massive dissatisfaction effect. Note that playing Extended Classes and Baby Classes are considered as "just-for-fun" class. They are not meant to have the power over normal players at any point. Thus why Kunai Ninjas cannot really deal more damage than a non-trans 2rd class (we are talking fully geared non-KP items; no HBP and that sort of ). Kagerou/Oboro most likely will make them a decent threat against non-trans 3rd class but not sufficient enough to warrant making one to do anything else other than having fun while playing them (rather than going hardcore PvPing, MvPing and WoEing).

As for your suggestion... N.O. to Righteousness, T-Null to Instigation. Why?

Rightousness means that you want to tell people that not doing any research, jumping into the game, building INT/DEX/AGI and getting 3rd class is A-OK. Sounds right? No. RG is not an INT class. They are not meant to benefit from INT in any much way except for more MDef and SP. I would have rather see you suggest an offensive INT skill than this, and I would have given it a T-Null since it makes building INT just less worthless. Why so? Because it makes building Shield Spell/Genesis Ray builds better suited for INT/VIT builds in compliment with the skill. Also, makes it more prominent to be a Heavy Tank with a machine gun on it rather than a pea shooter when fighting anything.

As for Instigation, T-Null is mainly cause of the Provoke. I don't get this since it is meant to be a quest skill. How is there a level for the "special Provoke" as I just quoted. Why not just call it "Provoke", set it to have a flat duration and flat effect (Provoke has varying potency on it's level unless you specify that it casts Provoke at the maximum level) and I would say, "T-Up and a skill design well done!". Also, if it were to just force aggro on yourself, just say that it forces aggro onto the caster for (flat duration) seconds. There is no levels for quest skills and you ought to get it right (cause I don't read it any way else from that).


FYI, I suggested a Rage Counter Boost skill because RG apparently has some quirky skills on the defensive side so I would rather make an offensive skill more viable.

Me No Likey Gen One D:
1 Is For Potting Other Is For Homun.. Which Mine Is Already Max Lvl.. Soo It has Alot Of Max Stats ;D

Which part did you not like? The main suggestion or the alternative? The alternative actually bypasses stat limit (if we are talking about the job bonus sharing) since it's considered as a bonus. As for the stat random re-allocation system, it's meant for Homunculi that are non-Vani based. IE; those that earned crap-ton of stats in Luk can be randomed so that Luk does not have much stats in it. This is more profitable for Homunculi that are not having Max Stats to all and have some crappy stat builds so much that they are almost useless. The design is to make them viable again compared to the old "I don't like the stats! Delete and remake Homunculus!!!".

Oh, and pot-healing others is always useful, especially since you can make the high healing pots yourself.

Edited by matrixEXO, 07 January 2013 - 05:32 AM.

[ALSJ]

I can see your point but the fact is that XP required by Trans takes extreme proportions. Other than that, I really felt that 3rd classes should be trans-only. Either that, or a 3rd trans where you MUST get 150 on normal 3rd class to trans. This way, less is gonna happen and more tactical layouts get driven. But what can we do when the people at Gravity starts to get lazy from their fat wallets due to their game (RO) getting demand (not high, just decent) to be played even to this day.

And as for your point about the skills being non-trans only, I cannot agree with you. It's like punishing non-baby players who wanted to make trans for the sake of more skills and more HP/SP as something wrong to be done. While just having 1 skill may not look like much, it does create that sort of massive dissatisfaction effect. Note that playing Extended Classes and Baby Classes are considered as "just-for-fun" class. They are not meant to have the power over normal players at any point. Thus why Kunai Ninjas cannot really deal more damage than a non-trans 2rd class (we are talking fully geared non-KP items; no HBP and that sort of ). Kagerou/Oboro most likely will make them a decent threat against non-trans 3rd class but not sufficient enough to warrant making one to do anything else other than having fun while playing them (rather than going hardcore PvPing, MvPing and WoEing).

As for your suggestion... N.O. to Righteousness, T-Null to Instigation. Why?

Rightousness means that you want to tell people that not doing any research, jumping into the game, building INT/DEX/AGI and getting 3rd class is A-OK. Sounds right? No. RG is not an INT class. They are not meant to benefit from INT in any much way except for more MDef and SP. I would have rather see you suggest an offensive INT skill than this, and I would have given it a T-Null since it makes building INT just less worthless. Why so? Because it makes building Shield Spell/Genesis Ray builds better suited for INT/VIT builds in compliment with the skill. Also, makes it more prominent to be a Heavy Tank with a machine gun on it rather than a pea shooter when fighting anything.

As for Instigation, T-Null is mainly cause of the Provoke. I don't get this since it is meant to be a quest skill. How is there a level for the "special Provoke" as I just quoted. Why not just call it "Provoke", set it to have a flat duration and flat effect (Provoke has varying potency on it's level unless you specify that it casts Provoke at the maximum level) and I would say, "T-Up and a skill design well done!". Also, if it were to just force aggro on yourself, just say that it forces aggro onto the caster for (flat duration) seconds. There is no levels for quest skills and you ought to get it right (cause I don't read it any way else from that).


FYI, I suggested a Rage Counter Boost skill because RG apparently has some quirky skills on the defensive side so I would rather make an offensive skill more viable.

I don't see how it "punishes" anyone. Last I checked, there were no incentives for the non-trans route. Everything is transcendent biased. If you don't abide by that "unwritten law", you are mocked, goaded to be a slave and/or get the same label you just spewed: "Just for fun". What are better examples of "Just for fun" in this game? Perma 1sts and Battle Wizards. As for your crack about Kunai Ninjas, I can counter that with experience: I've been able to 1-2 shot most mobs with the right element Kunai and EDEN EQUIPMENT. Not all Base 2nd Jobs can really claim that.

The intention was to enable something for a Non-Transcendent/Baby to work at to make up for not transcending. A Transcendent would have to work to 99 again, but has extra HP/SP, more stats and more skill points along with some new skills, some being must haves. With this train of thought, a Non Transcendent would have to work to build up Quest Skills, while being unable to benefit from the extra stats and skill points. In exchange, the skills they have access to could offer different/older playstyles that likely died out with Renewal or augment abilities they already have. Its much easier to bar transcends from them because the majority of them don't need them and it risks more OP opportunities. It also varies up the classes with more choices to consider undertaking.

As for your reactions to my "example skills"... (I even added "hastily crafting" as a hint)

First off, anyone doesn't bother to research their class is shooting themselves in the foot. Plus I believe the stats would be more varied, with Int/Str/Dex for damage, any additions to that with Luk and varying degrees of Vit/Agi, since this build tends to mob level and their HP is still a casting cost. The Righteousness skill example was a throwback to the Grand Cross Crusader that actually -gasp- used their Int. However, MATK was relatively nerfed and weapon dependent in Renewal, so any other classes that weren't Mage/Priest like took a hit. The example was to gain some efficiency out of the build and help out Grand Cross, post 99, without having to be overly dependent on Inspiration or Banding. Its a very dedicated build, especially when incorporating Heal into it.

As for Instigation, that should have been a BIG tipoff of a 'hastily crafted example skill'. Its merely an alternative version of a player's 'Provoke' (the monster version doesn't increase ATK) that draws mobs to you. Unlike the normal Provoke, this would override mobs that don't change target. However, once the Instigation provoke duration ends, they would revert back to their original target. For some extra clarification, this one would have no ATK/DEF manipulation and would only work on monsters.

I threw my hat in this suggestion pool for fun. I don't expect anything to come out of it.

P.S. If you really want Burst Attack to be more effective, you should rally for augmenting the damage boost gained from lost HP, instead.

[matrixEXO]

I don't see how it "punishes" anyone. Last I checked, there were no incentives for the non-trans route. Everything is transcendent biased. If you don't abide by that "unwritten law", you are mocked, goaded to be a slave and/or get the same label you just spewed: "Just for fun". What are better examples of "Just for fun" in this game? Perma 1sts and Battle Wizards. As for your crack about Kunai Ninjas, I can counter that with experience: I've been able to 1-2 shot most mobs with the right element Kunai and EDEN EQUIPMENT. Not all Base 2nd Jobs can really claim that.

The intention was to enable something for a Non-Transcendent/Baby to work at to make up for not transcending. A Transcendent would have to work to 99 again, but has extra HP/SP, more stats and more skill points along with some new skills, some being must haves. With this train of thought, a Non Transcendent would have to work to build up Quest Skills, while being unable to benefit from the extra stats and skill points. In exchange, the skills they have access to could offer different/older playstyles that likely died out with Renewal or augment abilities they already have. Its much easier to bar transcends from them because the majority of them don't need them and it risks more OP opportunities. It also varies up the classes with more choices to consider undertaking.

As for your reactions to my "example skills"... (I even added "hastily crafting" as a hint)

First off, anyone doesn't bother to research their class is shooting themselves in the foot. Plus I believe the stats would be more varied, with Int/Str/Dex for damage, any additions to that with Luk and varying degrees of Vit/Agi, since this build tends to mob level and their HP is still a casting cost. The Righteousness skill example was a throwback to the Grand Cross Crusader that actually -gasp- used their Int. However, MATK was relatively nerfed and weapon dependent in Renewal, so any other classes that weren't Mage/Priest like took a hit. The example was to gain some efficiency out of the build and help out Grand Cross, post 99, without having to be overly dependent on Inspiration or Banding. Its a very dedicated build, especially when incorporating Heal into it.

As for Instigation, that should have been a BIG tipoff of a 'hastily crafted example skill'. Its merely an alternative version of a player's 'Provoke' (the monster version doesn't increase ATK) that draws mobs to you. Unlike the normal Provoke, this would override mobs that don't change target. However, once the Instigation provoke duration ends, they would revert back to their original target. For some extra clarification, this one would have no ATK/DEF manipulation and would only work on monsters.

I threw my hat in this suggestion pool for fun. I don't expect anything to come out of it.

P.S. If you really want Burst Attack to be more effective, you should rally for augmenting the damage boost gained from lost HP, instead.

What I meant is that, this suggestion is not supposed to be limited to only one mainstream type of players (ie: Baby, Non-Trans only). I also went as far as to say that Baby characters are considered play-for-fun characters because that's the reality in playing those classes.

As far as Ninjas go, I was talking about fighting in PvP or WoE, the main 2 aspects of the game end-game wise.

As far as how trans have to work their levels again, it's like normal but about 2x more required xp per level (not sure the exact value, very very rough estimation).

To your comments about my comments:

Rightousness
This is also the reason why I didn't want to see a boost in just the old skills. If you wanted it to give a boost, why not have a 2nd job quest skill that does it? The suggestions and alternatives were made to be focused on 3rd class jobs and their skillsets, either complimenting or introducing a new function into the skillset itself.

Instigation
Now that it's more cleared up, I say it's a good design. Overall, a decent tank skill for a tank class char mainly to tank MvPs(?). Also, how does this affect WoE or PvP in any sense? There should be an effect that relays over to WoE or PvP unless you intend to not do such a thing.

[ALSJ]

All classes can be played "for fun", really. The only thing this dream proposal would allow is more viable choices in ALL aspects of play, not just PvP and WoE, since not everyone wants to deal with that.

I know about the higher exp curve a transcendent has to go through. There is plenty of incentive to do so, in spite of that exp table.

For Righteousness, it was thought of to promote growth after one changes without needing to go overboard. Something of a reward for all that mobbing by making it easier and better to wield. Could it it pass for a Base 2nd Quest Skill? Perhaps. But I wanted something that helps both old and new. You've worked with and built up the playstyle, so now you earn and build a skill to improve it some more and affect an even stronger skill, all without needing to put a point in Spear Mastery and dabbling into the RG Spear Tree, since the other route only allows it within 90 seconds with a max 5 minute cooldown (Inspiration). An additional MATK or supportive (non damaging) skill would be nice to aid it, giving a nod to the often neglected Resistant Souls skill.

Instigation was another tank tool, yes. I'd rather it remain PvM only because Players have better senses... for the most part. Now, if there was a way to force them to attack you, that could be promising and/or broken in some respects.

[matrixEXO]

All classes can be played "for fun", really. The only thing this dream proposal would allow is more viable choices in ALL aspects of play, not just PvP and WoE, since not everyone wants to deal with that.

I know about the higher exp curve a transcendent has to go through. There is plenty of incentive to do so, in spite of that exp table.

For Righteousness, it was thought of to promote growth after one changes without needing to go overboard. Something of a reward for all that mobbing by making it easier and better to wield. Could it it pass for a Base 2nd Quest Skill? Perhaps. But I wanted something that helps both old and new. You've worked with and built up the playstyle, so now you earn and build a skill to improve it some more and affect an even stronger skill, all without needing to put a point in Spear Mastery and dabbling into the RG Spear Tree, since the other route only allows it within 90 seconds with a max 5 minute cooldown (Inspiration). An additional MATK or supportive (non damaging) skill would be nice to aid it, giving a nod to the often neglected Resistant Souls skill.

Instigation was another tank tool, yes. I'd rather it remain PvM only because Players have better senses... for the most part. Now, if there was a way to force them to attack you, that could be promising and/or broken in some respects.

But the number of high-usability classes are limited to only the main non-Baby classes.

Instigation, I can see it as a complete suggestion in and of itself. Gonna add it onto the main post with your name tagged on it.

As far as Righteousness goes, I can get where you want to go with it, but I think that you forgot that while it's still possible without Inspiration since the main powerhouse is still Shield Spell (giving you +100 Atk and MAtk) and Piety (complete negation of GC damage). This way, playing GC is still possible but just more time consuming, spending time getting your buffs up and ready, and getting that best one-hand sword for GC (and best shield as well). What I really see needs to be added is still more MAtk + Atk damage based around Holy property. Maybe a pseudo Heal + Damage component in it to bring it a bit of flair.

Point is, not many use previous skills to attack enemies while they are 1/2 job/s higher. Ever see a Sin/SinX/GX play Envenom to kill a monster? Ever see a BS/WS/Mech/Alc/Biochem/Gen use Mammonite to kill monsters?

They are not viable at 2nd or 3rd class. The only ones that do use 1st/2nd class skills are only when they are viable to the classes no matter what. This is mainly buffs or passives. Skills that are used from 1st/2nd while in 2nd/3rd are only done by classes like Sage/Scholar/Sorceror where the skill build allows for such an act. Else, they would not use it as well. Wizards/High Wizards/Warlocks are the prime examples. Used at earlier levels just to farm job levels, ditched once they obtain the optimal skill.

What is the optimal skill for a GC Crusader/Paladin turning into a Royal Guard? Genesis Ray. Not as spammable as GC but is more powerful (in terms of one cast damage) than GC by a milestone. I doubt you need anything more than that and another damaging (spammable) platinum skill to compliment that high 5s cd skill.

[ALSJ]

That is why I'd like to see some more additions and conditions to shake that up. There are still plenty of ideas to play with.

I don't recall Shield Spell Level 1 granting any sort of MATK. You might be thinking of the random magic attack that could happen if you spam Level 2. Piety is a great aid and I'm glad the skill exists, but it only negates the "backlash" damage, not the HP cost to cast the skill, so this crafted skill would aid in "discounting" that HP cost. There aren't too many MATK weaponry the class can make use of to help the Magic side of things, though.

For high classes using lower skills, you still see it around. Perhaps not attack skills, but that is to be expected. You may see less of Envenom for GX, but you'll still see them use normal Cloaking and/or Enchant Poison, should the situation call for it. You may see less of Mammonite with Merchants over time (to a degree, since I've heard of some who would rather use that than Power Swing), but you'll still see Blacksmith buffs, Aid Potion and Prepare Potion. The intent isn't to solely focus on higher tier, but to also help some of the lower tier skills that can prove useful by improving them. An example class that makes use of this concept is Warlock. They gain strong water element magic, but can still make efficient use of Storm Gust, especially with Release. With this concept skill, Grand Cross can be wielded alongside Genesis Ray, dealing respectable damage on its own in between Genesis casts in Banding or in between Inspiration cooldown periods. Pretty much the gist of it.

[matrixEXO]

That is why I'd like to see some more additions and conditions to shake that up. There are still plenty of ideas to play with.

I don't recall Shield Spell Level 1 granting any sort of MATK. You might be thinking of the random magic attack that could happen if you spam Level 2. Piety is a great aid and I'm glad the skill exists, but it only negates the "backlash" damage, not the HP cost to cast the skill, so this crafted skill would aid in "discounting" that HP cost. There aren't too many MATK weaponry the class can make use of to help the Magic side of things, though.

For high classes using lower skills, you still see it around. Perhaps not attack skills, but that is to be expected. You may see less of Envenom for GX, but you'll still see them use normal Cloaking and/or Enchant Poison, should the situation call for it. You may see less of Mammonite with Merchants over time (to a degree, since I've heard of some who would rather use that than Power Swing), but you'll still see Blacksmith buffs, Aid Potion and Prepare Potion. The intent isn't to solely focus on higher tier, but to also help some of the lower tier skills that can prove useful by improving them. An example class that makes use of this concept is Warlock. They gain strong water element magic, but can still make efficient use of Storm Gust, especially with Release. With this concept skill, Grand Cross can be wielded alongside Genesis Ray, dealing respectable damage on its own in between Genesis casts in Banding or in between Inspiration cooldown periods. Pretty much the gist of it.

I think I have mentioned it that supportive (buff)/healing skills are still viable all round. Only offensive skills drop in terms of usability after job changing. Offensive skills that are still viable instead requires that highly specialised build into it (GF as compared to Combo, SD as compared to auto-attack). BTW, Warlock's Release spell is technically still considered 3rd job skill since all they need to do is cast the 3rd class spell, rather than directly casting the spell itself. In that example, Spell Fist Sorc uses 1st job spells as a catalyst to start the main 3rd job spell.

As for Shield Spell, my bad. I remembered seeing something that it is a good booster skill or what. SS Lv.1 is useful in boosting Atk while SS Lv.2 is useful for the MAtk. Had to go back to do the checking with irowiki.

I can get what you mean as well, in terms of being a viable spamming spell and so on but I feel that if you really want an AoE, take normal GC for the lower damage, GR for the higher damage and SS Lv.2 for unique damage (since it depends on MDef of the shield).

Edited by matrixEXO, 10 January 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[Roda]

I can see your point but the fact is that XP required by Trans takes extreme proportions. Other than that, I really felt that 3rd classes should be trans-only. Either that, or a 3rd trans where you MUST get 150 on normal 3rd class to trans. This way, less is gonna happen and more tactical layouts get driven. But what can we do when the people at Gravity starts to get lazy from their fat wallets due to their game (RO) getting demand (not high, just decent) to be played even to this day.

And as for your point about the skills being non-trans only, I cannot agree with you. It's like punishing non-baby players who wanted to make trans for the sake of more skills and more HP/SP as something wrong to be done. While just having 1 skill may not look like much, it does create that sort of massive dissatisfaction effect. Note that playing Extended Classes and Baby Classes are considered as "just-for-fun" class. They are not meant to have the power over normal players at any point. Thus why Kunai Ninjas cannot really deal more damage than a non-trans 2rd class (we are talking fully geared non-KP items; no HBP and that sort of ). Kagerou/Oboro most likely will make them a decent threat against non-trans 3rd class but not sufficient enough to warrant making one to do anything else other than having fun while playing them (rather than going hardcore PvPing, MvPing and WoEing).

As for your suggestion... N.O. to Righteousness, T-Null to Instigation. Why?

Rightousness means that you want to tell people that not doing any research, jumping into the game, building INT/DEX/AGI and getting 3rd class is A-OK. Sounds right? No. RG is not an INT class. They are not meant to benefit from INT in any much way except for more MDef and SP. I would have rather see you suggest an offensive INT skill than this, and I would have given it a T-Null since it makes building INT just less worthless. Why so? Because it makes building Shield Spell/Genesis Ray builds better suited for INT/VIT builds in compliment with the skill. Also, makes it more prominent to be a Heavy Tank with a machine gun on it rather than a pea shooter when fighting anything.

As for Instigation, T-Null is mainly cause of the Provoke. I don't get this since it is meant to be a quest skill. How is there a level for the "special Provoke" as I just quoted. Why not just call it "Provoke", set it to have a flat duration and flat effect (Provoke has varying potency on it's level unless you specify that it casts Provoke at the maximum level) and I would say, "T-Up and a skill design well done!". Also, if it were to just force aggro on yourself, just say that it forces aggro onto the caster for (flat duration) seconds. There is no levels for quest skills and you ought to get it right (cause I don't read it any way else from that).


FYI, I suggested a Rage Counter Boost skill because RG apparently has some quirky skills on the defensive side so I would rather make an offensive skill more viable.



Which part did you not like? The main suggestion or the alternative? The alternative actually bypasses stat limit (if we are talking about the job bonus sharing) since it's considered as a bonus. As for the stat random re-allocation system, it's meant for Homunculi that are non-Vani based. IE; those that earned crap-ton of stats in Luk can be randomed so that Luk does not have much stats in it. This is more profitable for Homunculi that are not having Max Stats to all and have some crappy stat builds so much that they are almost useless. The design is to make them viable again compared to the old "I don't like the stats! Delete and remake Homunculus!!!".

Oh, and pot-healing others is always useful, especially since you can make the high healing pots yourself.

Actually, regarding your comments toward saders, before trans the ONLY effective way for a sader to dish out damage at a rate comparable to other classes was with a GC INT/DEX/VIT build. The only other notable offensive skill they had was holy cross, which was ATK based and thus inferior due to the fact that MATK climbs at a much faster rate than ATK. Saders were mostly defence oriented as a result. Just to inform you the only classes that could reliably kill potting players in WoE pre-trans were monks and wizards....and even then a knight, assassin, crusader, or sage with 85+ vit and full reducs stood a good chance at surviving Gfist unless they were lexed. And bearing in mind that trans is different from all of that, there were A LOT of old playing styles that ceased to exist with renewal. A lot of old lvling styles too...like killing things much stronger than yourself one at a time to lvl? You don't see that anymore thanks to the EXP penalty. Speaking of which, making non-trans characters not have to deal with that if they change to third class would be a nice idea.

Edited by Roda, 15 January 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[equisce]

I do not agree with this. Makes Suicidal Detonation skill spammable. I would rather promote a more friendly skill design for Mechanics while maintaining the old routes (forging) to bring about better decisions. Making a Mechanic from Blacksmith (not Mastersmith) means you can get armors meant for characters later on, then restart leveling your Mechanic from trans (delete, start new one). This way, you would be much stronger in terms of post lvl 100 due to gears. Starting char as a Mechanic would be promoted for people not intending to buy their way into playing it.

I don't think so. Suicidal Destruction isn't Spammable.


Suicidal Destruction

[{(Skill Level + 1) x (Remodel Mainframe Skill Level + 8 ) x (SP Used + Caster’s VIT)} x
Caster’s Base Level / 100] + (Caster’s Current HP)
Damage is reduced by the target’s DEF (both Equipment-based and STAT-based)
Fixed Cast Time: 0.5 second
Variable Cast Time: (2.5 - 0.5 * Skill Level) seconds
Skill re-use Delay: 300 seconds
Global Skill Delay: None
AoE:
Level 1: 5x5
Level 2: 7x7
Level 3: 9x9

https://docs.google....ekCAkfEiQ&pli=1

[matrixEXO]

I get that number. I don't get where the doc came from.

Even if it is legit, I don't believe that one should be allowed to make a Mado on the fly. It's like when you go into a MVP with a group, SD your Mado Gear, then reconstruct one in 5 seconds (not including cast time reduction) and then get into the fight like it was nothing. SD is meant to be a meaningful choice, like how Killing Strike is supposed to be. You sacrifice something for something else in return of great power. Same applies to Guillotine Fist. The way it would be (if the skill is implemented), is where a person would go MvP/PvP/WoE, cast SD then cast that skill (bad english name, not sure if intended so won't type it) and proceed to arm cannon the remaining enemy/enemies. Also, WoE allows it since dying, respawning, casting that skill, then going back into the castle works about the same way as what the others would.

I won't say it is a bad idea, but not really a good one either, weighing the pros and cons.

[Darkeiko]

You're missing skills for Arch Bishop. Can't we have a platinum skill that increases our defense based upon VIT? Or at least something that buffs us to the point where we're not being killed every five seconds in PVP/WoE?

[matrixEXO]

You're missing skills for Arch Bishop. Can't we have a platinum skill that increases our defense based upon VIT? Or at least something that buffs us to the point where we're not being killed every five seconds in PVP/WoE?

That and Sura. Gonna start brainstorming for them NAO!

Done. Not really up to what I really want it to be but... it will do

Edited by matrixEXO, 11 February 2013 - 06:40 PM.

[yaguhLOLOL]

The one for wanderer sounds coolio!
Only part I dont like is the Charming Wink part. The skill has been bugged for a while, and gms havent done crap about it -___-.

[Baturiano]

I'm loving the GX platinum skill

[matrixEXO]

The one for wanderer sounds coolio!
Only part I dont like is the Charming Wink part. The skill has been bugged for a while, and gms havent done crap about it -___-.

O.o Didn't know that. Unfortunately, the alternatives were made under the concept of fully functioning skills. Oh, and since it did say "High Level Monsters", anything post X.X update might have been considered under that effect or outside either (in which case it does nothing).

[Lucentos]

I have an idea for Ranger quest skills:1st: Owl Grip. Instant cast. 12 cell range(can be fired over snipable walls) 30 Sp. No Cast Time. 12 second reuse delay. Effect: Snares enemy by Owl|(Ranger Falcon) for 1*Steel Crow seconds. Inflicts 50% Atk damage at each 0.5 sec of lockdown to ban effective use of Lex Aetherna. Allows to use Aimed Bolt at full strenght at target and doubles this Aimed Bolt damage. 2nd: Enriched Explosives. Passive skill.Effect: x2 damage and trap cost for Cluster bomb and x1.5 damage to all other traps. 3rd: Shooting Mark. Instant cast. Weapon Range. 20 Sp. No cast time. 10 second reuse delay. Effect: Marks enemy for 4 seconds for 2x Ranged damage with Ranger attacks.

[WateryGrave]

Shadow Chaser Platinum skill
Name : Weapons Master
Effect : Able to equip any weapon without restriction while skill is active. (Similar to that of SuperNovice Link)
Some ways i came up with to balance skill.
Could be somewhat like Royal Guards Prestige. Long cast time, Long Cast delay. and then when the skill ends it strips both weapon and shield.
Alternative - Set the skill up to be like a toggle. Turn it on and it stays on for a set amount of time but if your weapon and or shield gets taken off by any means have like a 7min reuse penalty