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#1 DrAzzy

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

All items appear to use same list of enchants.
Enchants given depend on refine rate of the item.


At +0:
DEF: +3, +6, +9, or +12
MDEF: +2, +4, +6, or +8
Obviously, the crappy enchants more common.

At +5:
DEF: +3, +6, +9, or +12
MDEF: +2, +4, +6, or +8
Any stat: +1

At +7:

DEF: +3, +6, +9, or +12
MDEF: +2, +4, +6, or +8
Any stat: +1

At +8:
Any stat: +1~2 - more 1's than 2's

At +10:
Any stat: +1~2.
HP: +100, +200, or +300
SP: +50, +100 (rare)

At +11:
Any stat: +1~2.
HP: +100, +200, or +300
SP: +50, +100

Edited by DrAzzy, 25 February 2013 - 12:09 PM.

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#2 Xyst

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

That was nice. But dont think that they will compete with malangdo enchant.
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#3 DrAzzy

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

Well of course not - but malangdo enchant doesn't go on your armor or your shield!

I wonder if we overupgrade these things high enough, we might get good enchants?

Edited by DrAzzy, 09 February 2013 - 11:11 PM.

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#4 PedroProplayer

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:47 AM

The ubber MDEF enchants are really useful since Ninjas are very weak agaisnt magic.
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#5 daprofit

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

the DEF enchants help for dual daggers w/o shield
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#6 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:59 AM

the DEF enchants help for dual daggers w/o shield

No they don't. Have you seen how little damage reduction def gives?
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#7 Viri

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:02 AM

Mdef is good at least. Even 60-70 mdef is very significant
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#8 TheKiss

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:07 AM

No they don't. Have you seen how little damage reduction def gives?

Earth Charms increase E.Def from what I've heard... If you stack enough high-refine armor, you may have some significant E.Def boost with Earth Charms.
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#9 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:13 AM

Earth Charms increase E.Def from what I've heard... If you stack enough high-refine armor, you may have some significant E.Def boost with Earth Charms.


They don't.

Spoiler

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#10 Kadelia

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:23 AM

It doesn't show in the status window any more than a hydra card does.
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#11 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:06 AM

It doesn't show in the status window any more than a hydra card does.


It doesn't give Equipment Def it gives +% of Equipment Def.

After testing seems to be +1% Equipment Def per Earth Charm.

Edited by Riakuta, 11 February 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#12 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:48 AM

It doesn't give Equipment Def it gives +% of Equipment Def.

After testing seems to be +1% Equipment Def per Earth Charm.

Care to share your testing methodology?

I ask because this sounds like a real pain to test with any level of accuracy.
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#13 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:04 AM

Care to share your testing methodology?

I ask because this sounds like a real pain to test with any level of accuracy.


Had my Guillotine attack me with no weapon.

0 Equipment Def - 295
0 Equipment Def + 10 Earth Charms - 295
75 Equipment Def - 244
75 Equipment Def + 10 Earth Charms - 223.
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#14 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

Those numbers aren't consistent with the formulas for def (the ones without the charms up). Damage number for 75 equip def is about 10 lower than expected from that 0 def one.

You are doing this on a character that has vit (soft defense), i think. This is throwing off the results. You need to do it on a Kag/Obo with 1 vit, to remove that confounding influence. Or possibly you forgot about some piece of gear that is giving a bit of reduction?
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#15 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

Those numbers aren't consistent with the formulas for def (the ones without the charms up). Damage number for 75 equip def is about 10 lower than expected from that 0 def one.

You are doing this on a character that has vit (soft defense), i think. This is throwing off the results. You need to do it on a Kag/Obo with 1 vit, to remove that confounding influence. Or possibly you forgot about some piece of gear that is giving a bit of reduction?


Sorry I have 77 Soft Def.

Side Note: Could have been 75 Equipment Def or 79 Equipment Def.

Edited by Riakuta, 11 February 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#16 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

Sorry I have 77 Soft Def.

Side Note: Could have been 75 Equipment Def or 79 Equipment Def.

So it looks more like
0 Equipment Def - 392
0 Equipment Def + 10 Earth Charms - 392
75 Equipment Def - 321
75 Equipment Def + 10 Earth Charms - 300

I still can't reconcile 392 damage with 0 def vs 321 at 75 equip def.
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#17 Kadelia

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

Had my Guillotine attack me with no weapon.

0 Equipment Def - 295
0 Equipment Def + 10 Earth Charms - 295
75 Equipment Def - 244
75 Equipment Def + 10 Earth Charms - 223.


What is your soft def? The formula doesn't come out right without that.

(Damage after hard DEF) = (Damage before hard DEF)*[(4000 + Hard DEF) / (4000 + HardDEF * 10)]

244 = X * [(4000 + 75) / (4000 + 75 * 10)]
244 = X * [4075 / 4750]
244 = X * 0.857895
244/0.857895 = X
~284= X

Anyways, assuming 284 was the base damage, 75 DEF would reduce it to 244. But let's solve for DEF if you're taking 223.

223 = 284 * [(4000 + X) / (4000 + X * 10)]
If you solve for X, you get 125.385406.

So if the DEF went from 75 to 125, that is a 66.667% increase.

284*((4000 + 125) / (4000 + 125 * 10))
284* 4125 / 5250
= 78.5714% damage
284 * 0.785714 = 223.142776

Sounds like 10 charms increases your DEF by 2/3rds

Edited by Jaye, 11 February 2013 - 11:16 AM.

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#18 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

So if the DEF went from 75 to 100, that is a 20% increase.

I am doing the math wrong


33%

But I think the dataset we're working with here is flawed anyway. I don't have earth charm yet though (and won't, until I can get a +9 KK CoD to level my ninja with, because he sucks without the 29% extra cast reduc), and I already have vit on my Kag anyway. It should be tested on a 1-vit kag if at all possible.

I think we've narrowed it to 2-5% per charm, though, which is a step in the right direction.

Edited by DrAzzy, 11 February 2013 - 11:18 AM.

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#19 Kadelia

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:17 AM

33%

But I think the dataset we're working with here is flawed anyway. I don't have earth charm yet though (and won't, until I can get a +9 KK CoD to level my ninja with, because he sucks without the 29% extra cast reduc), and I already have vit on my Kag anyway. It should be tested on a 1-vit kag if at all possible.

Sorry I used 233 instead of 223 in the calc (typo) thats why my numbers were off. Refresh, I edited my post, it comes out evenly now.

It looks like 6.667% DEF per charm

Edited by Jaye, 11 February 2013 - 11:19 AM.

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#20 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

Aaah, okay cool.

But of course, the numbers we started with are still in question.

I'll bet it's actually +5% per/50% with all 10.

Edited by DrAzzy, 11 February 2013 - 11:24 AM.

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#21 Kadelia

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

It could very well be.. we don't have reliable data from tomato (especially soft def)
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#22 DrAzzy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

Riakuta is tomato? Is that the same one in CS?
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#23 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:26 PM

Riakuta is tomato? Is that the same one in CS?


Hey Azzy yep I'm a Tomato and a Potato.
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#24 Ramen

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 12:59 PM

Something I've been wondering about with magic builds is, wouldn't you only need 16th Night and an Isilla card to essentially have perma instant cast? I don't know why you'd need any other gears that involve cast time reduction unless the cast time reductions don't stack like I'm thinking.

Also, regarding the original post, have you been able to test with the Petal Shuriken (the pink one)? When I tried to enchant on Sakray, I only ever got +6 def out of a number of attempts, so I assumed it was just bugged on Sakray.
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#25 Riakuta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

Something I've been wondering about with magic builds is, wouldn't you only need 16th Night and an Isilla card to essentially have perma instant cast? I don't know why you'd need any other gears that involve cast time reduction unless the cast time reductions don't stack like I'm thinking.

Also, regarding the original post, have you been able to test with the Petal Shuriken (the pink one)? When I tried to enchant on Sakray, I only ever got +6 def out of a number of attempts, so I assumed it was just bugged on Sakray.


16th Night Reduces Variable Cast Time the same way Foresight does and unstackable 50%.
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