91 replies to this topic

[Irreparable]

yeah you count out like: potions for merchants leveling, storage cost, quiver cost... do cannon balls need those thing? I don't think we just arguing price...

Erm... the OP is exactly about the price for cannon balls...

[BlueMizuki]

Ok lets see if I get this figured out a little bit....here me out because this will be a long post...

Regular price:

Cannon Ball: 100z each = 3,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Holy Cannon Ball: 200z each = 6,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Dark Cannon Ball: 200z each = 6,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Soul Cannon Ball: 200z each = 6,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Iron Cannon Ball: 500z each = 15,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons


Discount Level 10:

Cannon Ball: 76z each = 2,280,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Holy Cannon Ball: 152z each = 4,560,000 Zeny for 30k cannons
Dark Cannon Ball: 152z each = 4,560,000 Zeny for 30k cannons
Soul Cannon Ball: 152z each = 4,560,000 Zeny for 30k cannons
Iron Cannon Ball: 380z each = 11,400,000 Zeny for 30k cannons


Lets say you are in a full party doing this weeks mid ti and you use 1000 Iron cannons this is what the price would cost.

Regular price 1,000 cannons = 500k
Discount price 1,000 cannons = 380k

Monsters in the mid ti this week are:
Aunoe
Fanat
Venatu
Wanderer

Common Items they drop:

White Mask
Bloody Rune
Rusty Screw
Crest Piece
Fragment
Skull

Now lets say you had 100 of each of those items from looting that off the ground shall we? well this is what it would be if you npc 100 of each of these items.

White Mask 530z (657z) = 53k or 65,700k
Bloody Rune 1,008z (1,249z) = 100,800k or 124,900k
Rusty Screw 267z (331z) = 26,700k or 33,100k
Crest Piece 2,500z (3,100z) = 250,000k or 310,000k
Fragment 672z (833z) = 67,200k or 83,300k
Skull 522z (647z) = 52,200k or 64,700k

Total zeny you earned from npcing.
Regular = 549k
Overcharge level 10 = 681,700k

Well you pretty much just made all of that zeny back from looting some of the items off the ground that is just mostly the junk you would npc anyways plus you made a small profit since the iron cannons were 380-500k

Hope this makes sense and clears things up. Yes I know I didn't include the oris, elus, yggleafs, gear and cards they drop because I was giving a example of the money you can earn back from the useless crap they drop at a decent % rate and you might have a hard time picking those items off the ground since people usually flock to that stuff first as opposed to the other loot. (which is another reason why I didn't include these in the example.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFoco9jKdoU

THAT DAMAGE!

Guys, this is a game with a quest in which a girl gets trapped in a volcano full of flaming chickens, gets (GASP) chained to a wall, and you have to find a camel whose fecal matter will allow you to copy the lock's key and save her so you can visit an island full of demon priests summoning a half-fly evil lord to destroy the world.

Sense does not have a place in this game.

Ok I hated that quest I really did especially making the soap from the camels...

[sb120495]

Ok lets see if I get this figured out a little bit....here me out because this will be a long post...

Regular price:

Cannon Ball: 100z each = 3,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Holy Cannon Ball: 200z each = 6,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Dark Cannon Ball: 200z each = 6,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Soul Cannon Ball: 200z each = 6,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Iron Cannon Ball: 500z each = 15,000,000 zeny for 30k cannons


Discount Level 10:

Cannon Ball: 76z each = 2,280,000 zeny for 30k cannons
Holy Cannon Ball: 152z each = 4,560,000 Zeny for 30k cannons
Dark Cannon Ball: 152z each = 4,560,000 Zeny for 30k cannons
Soul Cannon Ball: 152z each = 4,560,000 Zeny for 30k cannons
Iron Cannon Ball: 380z each = 11,400,000 Zeny for 30k cannons


Lets say you are in a full party doing this weeks mid ti and you use 1000 Iron cannons this is what the price would cost.

Regular price 1,000 cannons = 500k
Discount price 1,000 cannons = 380k

Monsters in the mid ti this week are:
Aunoe
Fanat
Venatu
Wanderer

Common Items they drop:

White Mask
Bloody Rune
Rusty Screw
Crest Piece
Fragment
Skull

Now lets say you had 100 of each of those items from looting that off the ground shall we? well this is what it would be if you npc 100 of each of these items.

White Mask 530z (657z) = 53k or 65,700k
Bloody Rune 1,008z (1,249z) = 100,800k or 124,900k
Rusty Screw 267z (331z) = 26,700k or 33,100k
Crest Piece 2,500z (3,100z) = 250,000k or 310,000k
Fragment 672z (833z) = 67,200k or 83,300k
Skull 522z (647z) = 52,200k or 64,700k

Total zeny you earned from npcing.
Regular = 549k
Overcharge level 10 = 681,700k

Well you pretty much just made all of that zeny back from looting some of the items off the ground that is just mostly the junk you would npc anyways plus you made a small profit since the iron cannons were 380-500k

Hope this makes sense and clears things up. Yes I know I didn't include the oris, elus, yggleafs, gear and cards they drop because I was giving a example of the money you can earn back from the useless crap they drop at a decent % rate and you might have a hard time picking those items off the ground since people usually flock to that stuff first as opposed to the other loot. (which is another reason why I didn't include these in the example.)



THAT DAMAGE!


Ok I hated that quest I really did especially making the soap from the camels...

??? The op is comparing arrow storm to cannon using skills,where arrows are cheaper than cannon balls but deal more damage.Read the first page.

Edited by sb120495, 17 March 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Kadelia]

They do less damage and have less range than arrows. Do they really NEED to be so expensive?

Edit- Damage wise, a cannonball should win over an arrow every time [/quote[

.... they do.

This is yet another one of those hubris thread where your post should have been "How do I get my cart cannon/arm cannon damage higher?" and not an automatic arrogant assumption you know the capabilities on cannon damage.

Also cannonballs are not expensive. If you can't afford cannonballs its because you're ill prepared to play a 3rd class and probably got spoonfed exp by turn ins and 2x events.

Edited by Jaye, 17 March 2013 - 04:50 AM.

[BlueMizuki]

??? The op is comparing arrow storm to cannon using skills,where arrows are cheaper than cannon balls but deal more damage.Read the first page.

I was only answering the price part not the damage part....

The only reason why I didn't even bother to make a response to the damage because it will just be a even longer post then the previous one.

[visou]

Do TI for 2 days and sell the reset stone, that will get you 14k cannonballs. Those will last for weeks.

[Trevoir]

Do TI for 2 days and sell the reset stone, that will get you 14k cannonballs. Those will last for weeks.

Only 14k? I'd get 93k outta that

[Irreparable]

Only 14k? I'd get 93k outta that

He's talking about Iron Cannon Ball's, not the normal ones.

[Tkwan]

This is yet another one of those hubris thread where your post should have been "How do I get my cart cannon/arm cannon damage higher?" and not an automatic arrogant assumption you know the capabilities on cannon damage.

Also cannonballs are not expensive. If you can't afford cannonballs its because you're ill prepared to play a 3rd class and probably got spoonfed exp by turn ins and 2x events.

I probably shouldn't do this, but I'm going to anyway.

hubris [ˈhjuːbrɪs], hybrisn
1. pride or arrogance
2. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) (in Greek tragedy) an excess of ambition, pride, etc., ultimately causing the transgressor's ruin

I assume you meant arrogance through your personal definition of hubris.
So here's one more.

ar·ro·gance (r-gns)
n.
The state or quality of being arrogant; overbearing pride.
Noun
1. arrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors

I fail to see any arrogance, pride, or hubris, in my first post. Your post on the other hand... By definition, your post is exactly what you claim mine is.

Well if that isn't just irony.

If anything, the original post was closer to a rant. I almost put rant in the title, because I felt that kRO fell short with these cannon balls compared to many of their other successes with in game things (nameless quest aside; one of the producers probably had their child write a story and put it in script. It really looks like the imagination of a child at work there).



This is the only thing I'm going to say to you on this. I'm not going to partake in some non-sensical banter with you. It's pointless, because you feel you're always right, even when you're not, and no amount of dialogue can change that.

[CeruleanGamer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFoco9jKdoU

Wish Genetics had that kind of damage in WoE too. People need to fear Genetics again like they did prebalance patch.

[Tkwan]

Wish Genetics had that kind of damage in WoE too. People need to fear Genetics again like they did prebalance patch.

60k spammable cart cannons, lol

[Kadelia]

I probably shouldn't do this, but I'm going to anyway.

hubris [ˈhjuːbrɪs], hybrisn
1. pride or arrogance
2. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) (in Greek tragedy) an excess of ambition, pride, etc., ultimately causing the transgressor's ruin

I assume you meant arrogance through your personal definition of hubris.
So here's one more.

ar·ro·gance (r-gns)
n.
The state or quality of being arrogant; overbearing pride.
Noun
1. arrogance - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors

I fail to see any arrogance, pride, or hubris, in my first post. Your post on the other hand... By definition, your post is exactly what you claim mine is.

Well if that isn't just irony.

You are right. You shouldn't have gone and tried to refute me. Because you are wrong, again. (and interesting coincidence here, is your attempt to refute me is arrogance-- you're desperate to be right despite being told you were wrong).

Hubris is exaggerated confidence. Claiming definitively that arrows are superior in every way for the cost to cart cannon is a confident claim that you cannot back up, due to inexperience and general lack of knowledge (ignorance). Making a confident claim despite ignorance is arrogance, because the only basis backing your claim is your desired superiority rather than actual data.

Making a confident claim backed by experience and knowledge is not arrogance, its informative.

Rant or not your entire platform is flawed. Cart cannon and Arm cannon are awesome DPS moves, while arrow storm is a burst move. They should not be compared by their single use damage or cost. Cart cannon can be used a lot more rapidly than arrow storm (you didn't mention arrow storm in your first post, but it is heavily inferred, because there is no way auto-attack damage from a ranger out DPSes cart cannon in PVM).

This is the only thing I'm going to say to you on this. I'm not going to partake in some non-sensical banter with you. It's pointless, because you feel you're always right, even when you're not, and no amount of dialogue can change that.

Then don't. Say "I'm sorry," retract your hot tempered rant, and post in the class section "Help! My cart cannon/arm cannon damage isn't competitive" and get some advice on how to make it competitive for the money you're spending on cannonballs, or make another thread "help! I need money making tips". I would be more than happy to lay some data on you showing how awesome cart cannon is. Joaco's video alone is proof that cart cannon is better than arrow storm and well worth the cost of the cannonballs. the fact that you penultimately claimed the cannonballs were not worth their price without being armed with the knowledge of how awesome cart cannon is was overconfidence in your lacking experience.

FYI I only maintain I am right when I am. I butt out or rescind my statements if I am ever corrected and my own cross-referencing validates what the other person said. This has happened numerous times. The mistake you are making is you are actually wrong, and only imaging I am.

TLDR; you know you were wrong, your rant was not in good taste, and the only reason you made both the rant and tried (poorly) to fight with me and other forum members who disagreed with you is you are embarrassed and your pride is hurt. Get some humility. The correct next step is to expand your knowledge if you are dissatisfied with your usage of cannon skills at their apparent cost/effectiveness ratio. As GI Joe said, knowing is half the battle. So get some knowledge from the class forums so you can have a lot more enjoyment with cannon-based skills, and find them worth their cost.

Edited by Jaye, 17 March 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Joaco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFoco9jKdoU

In the comments, Ziu says no god items, just gear that improve elemental and demon damage, also more damage agaisnt boss.

[VolunteerMod05]

Take the personal family feud to PM's if you wish to continue please, Jaye and Tkwan.

[CeruleanGamer]

In the comments, Ziu says no god items, just gear that improve elemental and demon damage, also more damage agaisnt boss.

That's complete utter bullcrap or kRO did something to cart cannon damage formula.

[Joaco]

Lol, that's what he said.. But yeah, maybe they changed the formula

[Tkwan]

In the comments, Ziu says no god items, just gear that improve elemental and demon damage, also more damage agaisnt boss.

I looked up items that add demon/shadow/boss damage, and only found 4 things that would be worthwhile. Maybe someone could test this particular combination and see if it produces the same results? If not then kRO definitely has some other beefy things we don't yet to produce that sort of damage.

75% from 3x abby's in a blue twin edge
5% from Dark Shadow (this one I know we don't have yet)
15% from Witch Hat
40% from Gloom carded armor

+atk bonus for everything else

Those are the only things I could find (non God items) that add the most bonuses for each type.

That's complete utter bullcrap or kRO did something to cart cannon damage formula.

Or this. Even with those gears (and god items) I can't imagine that sort of damage output.

Take the personal family feud to PM's if you wish to continue please, Jaye and Tkwan.

I'm not responding to her anymore, no worries.

Edited by Tkwan, 17 March 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[jshun123]

You sure the vids are post balance? I know before balance CC in kro did 90~110k dmg to MVPs (jesususu) hence getting so much hate and nerf but dont forget kro has amazing cash buffs and vip buffs also work differently to ours and ill sneak around kro forum to see how they did that after all the nerfs....

Btw in kro sakary apparently they changed CC fomular so int no longer effects CC but AGI.... Thats for their 175 lvl cap increase (from 160) patch sakary

[Riakuta]

In the comments, Ziu says no god items, just gear that improve elemental and demon damage, also more damage agaisnt boss.

You are forgetting about the Arch Bishop Skill that increases damage of skills by 2x (Not Lex Aeterna) that is used in the video without it the damage would only be 60,000 instead of 120,000 per hit. As long as the Arch Bishop remains alive all damage will be increased by 2x for 180 seconds. Not sure if the skill is new or kRO exclusive, but it can make certain skills do a ridiculous amount of damage.

Edited by Riakuta, 17 March 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[Tkwan]

You sure the vids are post balance? I know before balance CC in kro did 90~110k dmg to MVPs (jesususu) hence getting so much hate and nerf but dont forget kro has amazing cash buffs and vip buffs also work differently to ours and ill sneak around kro forum to see how they did that after all the nerfs....

Btw in kro sakary apparently they changed CC fomular so int no longer effects CC but AGI.... Thats for their 175 lvl cap increase (from 160) patch sakary

Adding to the reasons that we should get stat/skill resets when that skill update makes its way here.

You are forgetting about the Arch Bishop Skill that increases damage of skills by 2x (Not Lex Aeterna) that is used in the video without it the damage would only be 60,000 instead of 120,000 per hit. As long as the Arch Bishop remains alive all damage will be increased by 2x for 180 seconds. Not sure if the skill is new or kRO exclusive, but it can make certain skills do a ridiculous amount of damage.

What skill is this? The only one I saw announced was the bonus healing one, and full throttle.

[Riakuta]

Adding to the reasons that we should get stat/skill resets when that skill update makes its way here.



What skill is this? The only one I saw announced was the bonus healing one, and full throttle.

Not sure myself someone watched the video and told me about it. Its got a weird name that I cannot for the life of me remember.

Wild Guess: Something Under The Moon?

Edited by Riakuta, 17 March 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[jshun123]

Hmm im lookin hard but its hard to find....

The healing increase one is called offertorium?
When lvl 5 it increases heal amounts by 3.0x for 90sec but increases mana costs by 3x
not 100% accurate but something along this line.. Note this is still in development stage in kro sakray so this info may change.in future...

[yaguhLOLOL]

Severe Rainstorm does not hit more than arrow storm without the right stats or equips.
-___- and cannon balls arent expensive. You people just cheap. Lol

[jshun123]

Well it is expensive compared to other jobs and the rate we use our cannon but gen itself throws money bags to kill so i guess most people who plays gen seriously will find this stupid....

Beside with our current inflations we need more zeny sinks and why not rob rich gen!!! =P

[Heart]

meh i am juz trying to guess how many pages this thread is going to go..