131 replies to this topic

[Coolsam]

well I think it a dumb move if they decide to release both the zodiac and evade/block nerf at the same time. what if there are bug that come with these update. you know how long it take them to fix one simple error let alone these new update. these 2 update should be release separately and I said the evade/block come first because more people are more focus on fixing the skill/class balance then rather farm a set that probably will have crappy stats.

It won't be the set...... it's the new content I'm after

But agreed. Block/Evade first week, fix any reported bugs next week or two, then Zodiac, then fix the rest of the bugs as they're revealed.

[marlonborba]

Please i beg u ppl to not agree with these changes. There is a server in Brazil where these changes were aplyied since the opening in october 2012 and its cause the sooner death of the game. Lemme give u some examples: chars with 5 times higher evade than adversaries aim take almost all hits. Limiter on atack speed and critical rate besides the block changes pratically destroyed the thief classes, especially ninjas. You really want archers and thief classes that dont evade like it should? Then why we spend so much time and money in getting aim and evade and critical rate the higher we can? The same with monster cards, why bothering get ur skill lv 10 (like katar block) for a lame eficience...

[CharlesBabbage]

Please i beg u ppl to not agree with these changes. There is a server in Brazil where these changes were aplyied since the opening in october 2012 and its cause the sooner death of the game. Lemme give u some examples: chars with 5 times higher evade than adversaries aim take almost all hits. Limiter on atack speed and critical rate besides the block changes pratically destroyed the thief classes, especially ninjas. You really want archers and thief classes that dont evade like it should? Then why we spend so much time and money in getting aim and evade and critical rate the higher we can? The same with monster cards, why bothering get ur skill lv 10 (like katar block) for a lame eficience...

Metagames differ in each server. What might not work for one server might be good for another. Besides, we don't even know what kind of change Gravity might implement. They're obviously not going to implement the change you are thinking of if it really doesn't work as intended. Just chill.

[StormHaven]

Please i beg u ppl to not agree with these changes. There is a server in Brazil where these changes were aplyied since the opening in october 2012 and its cause the sooner death of the game. Lemme give u some examples: chars with 5 times higher evade than adversaries aim take almost all hits. Limiter on atack speed and critical rate besides the block changes pratically destroyed the thief classes, especially ninjas. You really want archers and thief classes that dont evade like it should? Then why we spend so much time and money in getting  aim and evade and critical rate the higher we can? The same with monster cards, why bothering get ur skill lv 10 (like katar block) for a lame eficience...

Actually that sounds quite wonderful to me, cause atm ninjas have way to much evade,block, and cr

[Gutfang]

Actually that sounds quite wonderful to me, cause atm ninjas have way to much evade,block, and cr

Stupid question. If ninjas get nerfed then no one will be able to kill Elga?

[StormHaven]

Stupid question. If ninjas get nerfed then no one will be able to kill Elga?

Most likely, but i see it as a win-win if the devs are smart. nerf ninjas and remake elga so anyone can pug it with any class and not be forced to rely on Ninja+TR dagger spam.

[dango]

Stupid question. If ninjas get nerfed then no one will be able to kill Elga?

so u saying elga is made for only 1 class to beat it while the other 9 class are useless. also ninja is useless in elga with out a pally. there a reason 8 people can enter elga at once and I let u figure that out on your own.

[Gutfang]

so u saying elga is made for only 1 class to beat it while the other 9 class are useless. also ninja is useless in elga with out a pally. there a reason 8 people can enter elga at once and I let u figure that out on your own.

I didn't say that. Didn't know it was an 8-people raid. It's just people here always complain that no one can kill elga. so if it's possible with a party i am happy. no other questions.

[Flecha]

this would not be a good idea (=

[StormHaven]

so u saying elga is made for only 1 class to beat it while the other 9 class are useless. also ninja is useless in elga with out a pally. there a reason 8 people can enter elga at once and I let u figure that out on your own.

In the 2 years elga has been out i've yet to see anyone complete elga without using the Dagger+TR combo.(as we all know 1 ninja+TR= 4 other people)

[Thgnunes]

Sorry but the limiters are a bad idea because it does not have to balance all the different classes with the same measure ...

why the developer did not work for truth and balance the classes one by one



Not agree with this idea and WarpPortal will lose money on it since it does not need to invest much in his character ...

[dango]

In the 2 years elga has been out i've yet to see anyone complete elga without using the Dagger+TR combo.(as we all know 1 ninja+TR= 4 other people)

people are to lazy and want to finish it fast so when it come to elga the first thing that pop up in their head is we need a pally and a couple of ninja. so they don't bother trying different things. and beside this update is about evade/aim/block/CR I don't see any of this being miss in elga except for CR.

[StormHaven]

people are to lazy and want to finish it fast so when it come to elga the first thing that pop up in their head is we need a pally and a couple of ninja. so they don't bother trying different things. and beside this update is about evade/aim/block/CR I don't see any of this being miss in elga except for CR.

true enough it's possible that a full group with everyone at 24k+ attack could do elga(the attack you need to do full dmg), but then again they'd have to fix cross party healing/buffing again for it to work. That aside nerfing CR could affect elga a lot since you need that CR/CD to groggy elga.

[Gutfang]

true enough it's possible that a full group with everyone at 24k+ attack could do elga(the attack you need to do full dmg), but then again they'd have to fix cross party healing/buffing again for it to work. That aside nerfing CR could affect elga a lot since you need that CR/CD to groggy elga.

This is where I was coming from. If the nerfs to CR take place the amount of criticals will be less than at present and since the damage of any dps class is usually dependent on CR and CD there might be a problem. I am not so well-wersed in this game but coming from WoW, Rift, SWTOR background I know how important crits are to the overall damage/healing.
My pally is not at highest level yet so I don;t know how easy it is to achieve 24k+ dps and what's an average maximum for each class but I see there are lots of vets here so it should be easy to do the math and see how -1% CR affects the damage output.

[StormHaven]

This is where I was coming from. If the nerfs to CR take place the amount of criticals will be less than at present and since the damage of any dps class is usually dependent on CR and CD there might be a problem. I am not so well-wersed in this game but coming from WoW, Rift, SWTOR background I know how important crits are to the overall damage/healing.
My pally is not at highest level yet so I don;t know how easy it is to achieve 24k+ dps and what's an average maximum for each class but I see there are lots of vets here so it should be easy to do the math and see how -1% CR affects the damage output.

Both warrior classes break 24k dmg easily, but lack dps. Everyone else needs to have Zau's +10* higher solar rings(thats about $90 worth of IM for a set), or Elga weapons; as for CR for ninjas you're looking at about 70%+ CR on average with lethal, archers/savages/fighters are looking at about 40-50% CR, Mages+Warriors sit at 10-30%. If the cap is put at 50% it only affects ninjas, if lets say it was put at 30% you're looking at the majority of classes losing a major amount of DPS and with healing already being a problem in pvp even with the currently uncapped CR you're looking at a pretty bad drawbacks with Mages becoming the new kings of pvp and elga becoming "harder". Touching CR at all is going to be a slippery slop balance wise.

[dango]

This is where I was coming from. If the nerfs to CR take place the amount of criticals will be less than at present and since the damage of any dps class is usually dependent on CR and CD there might be a problem. I am not so well-wersed in this game but coming from WoW, Rift, SWTOR background I know how important crits are to the overall damage/healing.
My pally is not at highest level yet so I don;t know how easy it is to achieve 24k+ dps and what's an average maximum for each class but I see there are lots of vets here so it should be easy to do the math and see how -1% CR affects the damage output.

i don't see much effect in pvp if CR get nerfed due to the element attack and they already nerfed hp in pvp. As for pve the only problem is elga and like Storm said they need to re work elga so it will work with this new update.

[CharlesBabbage]

The way I see it, if you need to have uber-crit to even dent Elga, then the problem lies therein. Balancing the game means balancing everything in the game.

[StormHaven]

The way I see it, if you need to have uber-crit to even dent Elga, then the problem lies therein. Balancing the game means balancing everything in the game.

Yup bingo. Once you start you just can't stop, it's all or nothing balancing wise.

[Coolsam]

The way I see it, if you need to have uber-crit to even dent Elga, then the problem lies therein. Balancing the game means balancing everything in the game.

Well the boss' 3 phases have a combined hp amount of 420 million+ hp not to mention the bone shields which have 20-30 million hp (estimated) and the Elga eye which has about 25 million hp (estimated) each time you have to kill those to damage the heart. You do over 1 billion damage for a kill. So yes Lethal Attack w/ Time Reverse Daggers is the only way to speed that train-wreck of a boss up. Now factor in what's needed to chest farm for Materials for both normal and rare elga sets....

So yes its long overdue for a reworking but the thing is they don't want the boss too easy like JDragonica's old Elga where you did at absolute best 55-80 million damage ignoring all boxes for a kill with his damage so laughable at only 15-20k defense you'd sit there and wonder how he got the title of primary antagonist in this game.

There must be an inbetween of the boss. something where it's still challenging and needs 8 people but not something near impossible w/o abusing Time Reverse and Lethal Attack spammed Daggers. Even if Elga got a nerf people will still use TR+Dagger throw for speed-farming.

[CharlesBabbage]

I think the real problem with balance the game is the balance between the classes. During the first season, the intent of having different classes was not simply to accommodate all styles of gameplay, but also to promote teamwork. The classes used to complement each other, assisting each other throughout the game. Jesters were the AOE class, glads were the DPS class, and people actually wanted to have priests in their mission parties because the difficulty of the game didn't cater to 7-year olds. Sure, ninjas were considered the trash class while pallies were just as OP, but those were exceptions rather than the rule. Now, what we've got is a number of classes which all just aim to stack either evade or crit. And because ninjas could stack both without sacrificing too much, we ended up with Ninjagonica. If we are to get the game back on track, then they need to rework the specializations of the classes and assign each class their own value modifiers and stat caps rather than using universal values.

[StormHaven]

I think the real problem with balance the game is the balance between the classes. During the first season, the intent of having different classes was not simply to accommodate all styles of gameplay, but also to promote teamwork. The classes used to complement each other, assisting each other throughout the game. Jesters were the AOE class, glads were the DPS class, and people actually wanted to have priests in their mission parties because the difficulty of the game didn't cater to 7-year olds. Sure, ninjas were considered the trash class while pallies were just as OP, but those were exceptions rather than the rule. Now, what we've got is a number of classes which all just aim to stack either evade or crit. And because ninjas could stack both without sacrificing too much, we ended up with Ninjagonica. If we are to get the game back on track, then they need to rework the specializations of the classes and assign each class their own value modifiers and stat caps rather than using universal values.

or just nerf ninjas,pallies, and healing(the only real problems with balance)??? but we all know devs never do anything logical when it comes to balancing.

[CharlesBabbage]

or just nerf ninjas,pallies, and healing(the only real problems with balance)??? but we all know devs never do anything logical when it comes to balancing.

The devs have to take all existing servers into consideration when making changes that require rewriting a large portion of the source code. There are also other considerations, but the primary concern is whether any planned change is worth the amount of resources it would take to execute it. Obviously, the collective playerbase of this game haven't made enough noise to warrant a code overhaul.

[StormHaven]

The devs have to take all existing servers into consideration when making changes that require rewriting a large portion of the source code. There are also other considerations, but the primary concern is whether any planned change is worth the amount of resources it would take to execute it. Obviously, the collective playerbase of this game haven't made enough noise to warrant a code overhaul.

Oh trust me they have all the big servers IAH,Thai Drag,Gpot,and WP agree ninjas evade/cr,pallies in general, and healing are unbalanced. There are others but they're inconsistent between servers.

[Maronu]

Make having high aim give you more CR or make your attacks deal more damage. Remove evade entirely.

[Coolsam]

Make having high aim give you more CR or make your attacks deal more damage. Remove evade entirely.

There are people with over 700 aim..... do you really want that affecting Critical rate?