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#1 Darkii

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:17 AM

remove debuff.

or give me a few reasons why it should stay.

Edited by Darkii, 09 April 2013 - 04:17 AM.

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#2 Broadway

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:40 AM

Cause it's part of the excitement, getting debuff and fear the death... I guess :l
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#3 solovenomore

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:43 AM

Most time, when I am entering the TG full buffed and after few seconds, boom, debuffed, but I will still enter the TG, even I know that I will be debuffed, debuffed or not, won't stop me from entering the TG, that's all! You guess the reason yourself please!

Edited by solovenomore, 09 April 2013 - 06:45 AM.

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#4 Ballistic

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:46 AM

mages need it
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#5 TylerM32

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:46 AM

I dont think getting debuffed is exciting, but i also dont think it should be removed. However, taking 2 buffs away @ 100% is a little dumb. I'm not going to say the skill is abused, but when people just use mages in full mspeed for the sake of debuffing its kind of ridiculous.
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#6 Thrillaz

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:20 AM

Debuff harassment.
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#7 Metaleux

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

Mages don't need it, they were one of the best cass a few years ago and they didn't have it, now most mages you see are lame debuffers. It should be removed and I never understood why it was implemented.

Off-topic : wtf is with the easter eggs ? The whole food system was changed because people were complaining about red jellies, so I guess it's a good idea to start it over again ?

/rantover
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#8 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:02 AM

Use cleric, then no worry of getting debuffed.
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#9 Gojio

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:34 AM

If Mages were given a couple decent passives and all the damage skills were set back to being reliable they wouldn't have to rely on debuff so much...
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#10 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:38 PM

There was a balance patch long ago that ruined the mage class, I remember mage used to have like 160% and 160% AP passive, now only 80% and 160%, it's named glass cannon, but to be honest I don't find the term "cannon" fits mage class at all, the actual damage output is pretty low because of how slow their skill animation is, and you definitely cannot make mage to a melee class due to poor accuracy.

That little patch also changed many single target skill from reliable to non reliable, so basically they are a waste of time, however changed the fierce cudgeling to 100%.
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#11 teddy77

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

bring back battle cleric with huge sen and full p7 ftw
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#12 xBlack

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

remove debuff.

or give me a few reasons why it should stay.


you give us a few reasons why not
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#13 AppleStrudel

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:54 PM

If Mages were given a couple decent passives and all the damage skills were set back to being reliable they wouldn't have to rely on debuff so much...


Mages have no decent passives and its damage, especially against scouts/raiders, do nothing. If they just implemented a few things and made the class better in general, then i'd say, let it go.

Edited by AppleStrudel, 09 April 2013 - 10:54 PM.

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#14 chuchuchubaka

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:00 AM

remove debuff.

or give me a few reasons why it should stay.



yes everything in the game should be spoonfed to you imbecile. How about an instant level to 230 coupon and full honor set upon new toon creation?
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#15 Metaleux

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

you give us a few reasons why not


It was not there before and I don't remember anyone asking for it to be implemented, it ruins the mage class, people mostly play mage only for those skills, nothing else. It's just m speed set>debuff>die>start again. Not to mention the effect it has during TG wars, some are so "pro" they just spend their time running away from others waiting for their mage to debuff the opponents, and then turn back to attack once they have no more buffs lol, so hardcore yeah.
I'll admit mages need some tweaking, but those debuffs are not what make them good or not.
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#16 Darkii

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:20 AM

you give us a few reasons why not



This is why----

It was not there before and I don't remember anyone asking for it to be implemented, it ruins the mage class, people mostly play mage only for those skills, nothing else. It's just m speed set>debuff>die>start again. Not to mention the effect it has during TG wars, some are so "pro" they just spend their time running away from others waiting for their mage to debuff the opponents, and then turn back to attack once they have no more buffs lol, so hardcore yeah.
I'll admit mages need some tweaking, but those debuffs are not what make them good or not.


+ it doesn't has a benefit in PvP or PvM it's just debuff-->die --> respawn--> do all over...

yes everything in the game should be spoonfed to you imbecile. How about an instant level to 230 coupon and full honor set upon new toon creation?

sounds like a idea :p_omg:
(seems like we have a debuff freak here.)
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#17 solovenomore

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:15 PM

Frankly speaking, if a magi keeps aiming you, it means that you are too powerful for them to handle, that's why they need to debuff you first, so why feel sad, you should be happy!
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#18 chuchuchubaka

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:36 PM

This is why----


+ it doesn't has a benefit in PvP or PvM it's just debuff-->die --> respawn--> do all over...


sounds like a idea :p_omg:
(seems like we have a debuff freak here.)


you made this thread coz you randomly thought "oh hey, I dont like debuffs." you dont even explain the basis of why you want it removed. Mages only debuffing and dying in PVP is an issue of them needing a rework rather than removing debuff from every class. Do you see how your so called suggestion is retarded? Guess what, debuffs are in so many MMOs its almost a standard feature of the genre.


[mod]Edited: No name calling please [/mod]

Edited by Naughty, 11 April 2013 - 07:51 AM.

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#19 zenheartbeats

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:08 PM

i'm ok with debuff being removed (although my personal opinion is that the hate it garners has less to do with the mechanics and more to do with the culture of the game, if you understand what i mean)

that being said, i sure do enjoy having a built-in neuter button on my mage. :D

and come on people, mages aren't so bad to play as a main character :-)

Edited by zenheartbeats, 10 April 2013 - 03:12 PM.

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#20 PureCreativity

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

Debuff harassment.


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#21 VolunteerMod03

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

Giving mages debuff in my opinion gives them reason to exist if any.... at least until they eventually give them more of a purpose in PVP. Even the best built mages are a bit useless in my opinion when it comes to PVP other than running in first and debuffing people. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is not a valuable to mages or the game. I think maybe what you could be looking for rather than deleting it all together would maybe a skill or buff that could lower the chances even more of you getting debuffed? Something to balance it a bit more? I myself don't find it imbalanced but maybe you do? Do tell more. ;)
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#22 Metaleux

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:58 PM

Giving mages debuff in my opinion gives them reason to exist if any.... at least until they eventually give them more of a purpose in PVP. Even the best built mages are a bit useless in my opinion when it comes to PVP other than running in first and debuffing people. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is not a valuable to mages or the game. I think maybe what you could be looking for rather than deleting it all together would maybe a skill or buff that could lower the chances even more of you getting debuffed? Something to balance it a bit more? I myself don't find it imbalanced but maybe you do? Do tell more. ;)


Sorry but I have to disagree with your post, TBH I actually find it weird comming from a mod. Giving them a reason ? Mages being used only for that reason is exactly the problem. Also I have seen mages do pretty well in 1v1 pvps, they are good when they only have 1 target to handle, but yes wars is another story.
Valuable ? The 100% sleep skill they had was valuable, the ones who debuff don't do it because it is valuable to the game, it's just because it's an easy way to ruin a tg war, some of the debuffers even say they want it gone, and all of them complain when they get debuffed themselves. If that skill made mages so valuable maybe they would be played as main characters a bit more but it's not the case.
So again, yes mages need some tweaks, but there was a time where they were good, and didn't have any debuff.
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#23 VolunteerMod03

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:12 AM

Sorry but I have to disagree with your post, TBH I actually find it weird comming from a mod. Giving them a reason ? Mages being used only for that reason is exactly the problem. Also I have seen mages do pretty well in 1v1 pvps, they are good when they only have 1 target to handle, but yes wars is another story.
Valuable ? The 100% sleep skill they had was valuable, the ones who debuff don't do it because it is valuable to the game, it's just because it's an easy way to ruin a tg war, some of the debuffers even say they want it gone, and all of them complain when they get debuffed themselves. If that skill made mages so valuable maybe they would be played as main characters a bit more but it's not the case.
So again, yes mages need some tweaks, but there was a time where they were good, and didn't have any debuff.


Why is it weird coming from a mod? I'm a player just like you, so my opinions vary for different things. I am a mod, yes... does that mean I like or think every aspect of this game is 100% and working in the best ways, or fully finished, or built to perfection? Of course not, I'm quite sure other mods and even GM's could agree things in Rose needs balanced and fixed, that is why throughout the summer they are doing more class balancing, etc. I simply don't think Mages are very affective in PVP, other than debuffing at this point of time.

You kind of scatter in what you are saying, you are talking of mages "there was a time" (in the past), as if its the same now... it isn't. Mages at this moment are useful with debuffs, that is about it in my opinion. I personally as a non-mage player, I dislike debuffing just as much as the next guy.... but that doesn't mean because I dislike it, that it should be removed. Maybe if they give mages a better pvp aspect when doing these class balancing overall, then at that time we should consider getting rid of debuffs. Until that happens, I don't think there is any fun in mages other than running around debuffing people (which in my personal opinion is boring, but obviously debuffers find it fun).
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#24 PureCreativity

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:53 AM

Giving mages debuff in my opinion gives them reason to exist if any.... at least until they eventually give them more of a purpose in PVP. Even the best built mages are a bit useless in my opinion when it comes to PVP other than running in first and debuffing people. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is not a valuable to mages or the game. I think maybe what you could be looking for rather than deleting it all together would maybe a skill or buff that could lower the chances even more of you getting debuffed? Something to balance it a bit more? I myself don't find it imbalanced but maybe you do? Do tell more. ;)

In a PVP both the players get full buff or self buff, now why would the Mages opponent buff himself when the mage is going to debuff him?, in pvp no Debuffs, but most mages keep on running and debuffing everyone.

It should be like 1-2 minutes before you can debuff a person again.
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#25 Metaleux

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:04 AM

Why is it weird coming from a mod? I'm a player just like you, so my opinions vary for different things. I am a mod, yes... does that mean I like or think every aspect of this game is 100% and working in the best ways, or fully finished, or built to perfection? Of course not, I'm quite sure other mods and even GM's could agree things in Rose needs balanced and fixed, that is why throughout the summer they are doing more class balancing, etc. I simply don't think Mages are very affective in PVP, other than debuffing at this point of time.

You kind of scatter in what you are saying, you are talking of mages "there was a time" (in the past), as if its the same now... it isn't. Mages at this moment are useful with debuffs, that is about it in my opinion. I personally as a non-mage player, I dislike debuffing just as much as the next guy.... but that doesn't mean because I dislike it, that it should be removed. Maybe if they give mages a better pvp aspect when doing these class balancing overall, then at that time we should consider getting rid of debuffs. Until that happens, I don't think there is any fun in mages other than running around debuffing people (which in my personal opinion is boring, but obviously debuffers find it fun).


Ofc I didn't say you thought the game was perfect how it is, I guess i was just more use to agreeing with mods rather than the opposite by the past (for game related subjects). I guess it's some "next generation" thing lol (feel like a gramps saying that).

That is exactly what I am saying, in the past they were good, it is in no way to say it is the same now, just to point out that they can be good without. Does that mean we can't change anything else ? I also said they need some tweaking, not only the debuffs.

Ok so until we find a way to make mages useful we should leave it, but we can also take the problem the other way around and say we remove them until a solution for the debuff abuse is found, because that's what people are doing, just abusing that skill. The skill itself is not a problem, as stated earlier many other games have it, but tbh I don't think it is compatible with the rose community and gameplay.

If it was in any way hard to make a debuffer, why not have it like it is, but it is much harder to make an active support cleric who can survive and buff you again than it is to make a m speed debuffer.

Edit: Also ofc I don't mind if it is removed, I would be glad, but when I say "remove", understand that it means "something should be done about it", although that is indeed what I prefer lol

Edited by Metaleux, 11 April 2013 - 01:28 AM.

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