90 replies to this topic

[VolunteerMod03]

Can you further explain how people are "abusing it". If you mean running around and simply using that skill to gain advantages in war... I say that is team effort and team tactics. A clan has a debuffer run in debuff, and then they come in. I hate it just as much as you do, but I still see it as team playing and a way to win, rather than "abusing" it. The point of the skill is to debuff, and if people use it for that intent, I see nothing wrong with it other than disliking it cause it's annoying lol. However I think sleep in arti's is super annoying too, but I don't think it should go away.

Clans that complain about debuffers should recruit some debuffers themselves.

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 11 April 2013 - 01:53 AM.

[PureCreativity]

Can you further explain how people are "abusing it". If you mean running around and simply using that skill to gain advantages in war... I say that is team effort and team tactics. A clan has a debuffer run in debuff, and then they come in. I hate it just as much as you do, but I still see it as team playing and a way to win, rather than "abusing" it. The point of the skill is to debuff, and if people use it for that intent, I see nothing wrong with it other than disliking it cause it's annoying lol. However I think sleep in arti's is super annoying too, but I don't think it should go away.

Clans that complain about debuffers should recruit some debuffers themselves.

No it's not an advantage in a war, when 2 people are Pvping and some mage comes in and debuffs 1 player, to interupt the pvp.

[pdfisher]

If it is a personal, agreed upon pvp, then I would agree. But in war, all's fair.

[Metaleux]

Can you further explain how people are "abusing it". If you mean running around and simply using that skill to gain advantages in war... I say that is team effort and team tactics. A clan has a debuffer run in debuff, and then they come in. I hate it just as much as you do, but I still see it as team playing and a way to win, rather than "abusing" it. The point of the skill is to debuff, and if people use it for that intent, I see nothing wrong with it other than disliking it cause it's annoying lol. However I think sleep in arti's is super annoying too, but I don't think it should go away.

Clans that complain about debuffers should recruit some debuffers themselves.

Lol for the team tactics I appreciate the joke, it's more than just going in and debuffing before the others come in. It's something that you cannot do anything about, most of the time you are already debuffed before pking the mage, and then guess what ? Well nothing he just comes back and does it again. The cooldown is too short so they can simply do it over and over again.

Yeah people who complain about it should also do it, then what, we have debuffing wars ? Sounds like another great idea, and many have not waited for you to do so. But for the point itself, the ones who point out something wrong, should actually contribute into making it worse. Pure genius thx for the advice.

About the arti skill, people did complain about it, which lead to the nerf of that skill if I'm not mistaking, and it is not anywhere near as annoying as what we're talking about.

[VolunteerMod03]

Lol for the team tactics I appreciate the joke, it's more than just going in and debuffing before the others come in. It's something that you cannot do anything about, most of the time you are already debuffed before pking the mage, and then guess what ? Well nothing he just comes back and does it again. The cooldown is too short so they can simply do it over and over again.

Yeah people who complain about it should also do it, then what, we have debuffing wars ? Sounds like another great idea, and many have not waited for you to do so. But for the point itself, the ones who point out something wrong, should actually contribute into making it worse. Pure genius thx for the advice.

About the arti skill, people did complain about it, which lead to the nerf of that skill if I'm not mistaking, and it is not anywhere near as annoying as what we're talking about.

I knew you would get my sense of humor . It really isn't that hard to stop a mage, you make sound as if they are unbeatable gods. So yes while there ONE annoying purpose can be most frustrating, if you ARE able to take them down, they have nothing lol.

No it's not an advantage in a war, when 2 people are Pvping and some mage comes in and debuffs 1 player, to interupt the pvp.

War is hell.

[Skaduwee]

Give it a slow cooldown and i think everyone will be fine ^.^

[Feuer]

This topic is doomed to go down in rage flames.

[Metaleux]

I knew you would get my sense of humor . It really isn't that hard to stop a mage, you make sound as if they are unbeatable gods. So yes while there ONE annoying purpose can be most frustrating, if you ARE able to take them down, they have nothing lol.

Oh yes please tell me how you can stop someone who can respawn and start again, maybe run faster ? That does sound like fun.
Seriously I find it hard to believe I am still commenting here, are you sure we play the same game ? Have you ever seen what goes on during TG wars, or how is it that you don't see the problem with the current debuff skills ? Wars would not be more fun and interesting without it ? Or maybe people prefer to fight without buffs, sounds legit. This is just common sense to me and I am amazed to see how many don't get it.
Nobody plays gunbourgs, maybe we should give them debuffs so they can be useful too ! And then say oh well it's here lets deal with it, if you don't like it join it.

[coalchamberloco]

The problem with "TG wars" is that no one is actually warring. It is a lot of running around trying to get numbers right to jump one guy, and back to running around. That is why there are so many mage debuffers now anyway, everyone just runs. Now people just switch off their mains and debuff people, so that their side is the only one with boosters/blessings/buffs.

I miss the days when champs were the main class played, less running more fighting. Now everyone rolls scout, because who wants to join a war that you have to boost your movement speed to compete? With out boosted msped champs just get the hell shot out of em and die tired.

Remember mages need their debuff because they have nothing else anymore. Problem is people will complain about the class more now that people are debuffing instead of fighting. Time for us poor mages to get nerfed again I guess...

Edited by coalchamberloco, 11 April 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Metaleux]

The problem with "TG wars" is that no one is actually warring. It is a lot of running around trying to get numbers right to jump one guy, and back to running around. That is why there are so many mage debuffers now anyway, everyone just runs. Now people just switch off their mains and debuff people, so that their side is the only one with boosters/blessings/buffs.

I miss the days when champs were the main class played, less running more fighting. Now everyone rolls scout, because who wants to join a war that you have to boost your movement speed to compete? With out boosted msped champs just get the hell shot out of em and die tired.

Remember mages need their debuff because they have nothing else anymore. Problem is people will complain about the class more now that people are debuffing instead of fighting. Time for us poor mages to get nerfed again I guess...

Yes I get you with the running wars, I also find that the current system is not the best rose has known, but I don't see how any of that makes debuffing a good thing. People switching off their mains to get a debuffer certainly is not a good sign to me.
Mages have nothing because most of them don't even try, nobody plays them other than for debuffing, the few who do play the class for real will show you that in 1v1s they are not bad, even actually pretty good depending on what they are against.

[RiketzKarlom]

There's also the potential solution of having a bigger variety of debuffs and status effects usable by other job classes, like a few seconds of Silence to block the initial dispelling of Buffs. It makes things more complex and tactical, something WoW benefited from in its expansions.

But, a lot of this just seems like complaining for the sake of not liking someone and/or being aggrivated by trolls ruining duels. Though, there's also the solution of taking out the mage before casting a buff with a larger cooldown.

[DestinyDeoxys]

When Pegasus goes online, then you guys should go on it to help testing instead of sitting in Leonis doing nothing. So this isn't the right time to talk about this skill, the GM will not do anything now because everything will be changed soon.

[Indow]

Some threads reflect ones stupidity...

[Feuer]

Agreed with indow.

[VolunteerMod03]

@ Metaleux -- You keep saying mages "aren't that bad" if played right. Who in their right mind wants to play a class where the best you can be is "not that bad"? That is a bit laughable. The only "fun" thing about mages(if you find it fun), is that you CAN be powerful in one aspect.....debuffing. You can completely weaken someone with that one thing, when in every other aspect you can be... at best.... "not that bad".

You also asked if we play the same game, and then went and said "nobody plays gun bourgs". Everyone used to play champ too, and now many people don't. Class trends happen in waves constantly.... this couple months its been Scout, then it will be something else lol. That is the truth of it all. However until they give mages more of a purpose, and actually can be a competitive class in pvp/wars(other than debuffing), that is all they have so that is all they are going to do. Take the BEST mage in this game, have them 1v1 a decent player champ/scout/raider, or heck even a gunbourg, and I would put my money on any of those classes over the mage, and I'd put even more money saying that most people would agree the mage will go down.

If they decide to not get rid of debuffs, the best counteract to it would be to give a skill to other classes to be able to repel the debuff so they don't lose all or as many buffs when they are debuffed.

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 12 April 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Phish]

You also asked if we play the same game, and then went and said "nobody plays gun bourgs". I can remember about 2months ago, when gunbourgs was like the huge thing because of Game Arena and sleep.

Well, now that it's clear that you have no idea what you are talking about, the point about the Mage debuff is that the overwhelming majority of players are against it rather than supportive of it. Buffs play too huge a role in Rose as it is and it's hard to keep it balanced while removing them.When Pegasus comes up again whenever that may be.... the system is going to be overhauled completely and maybe in this system the skill will be appropriate But until then we can only argue over nothing. \

You say you don't find Mages effective in pvp, and you even find debuffing boring, so I'm not even sure if you are supportive of it or are just playing devil's advocate for the sake of arguing.


In case you were wondering, it's Artisans that have the sleep skill, and they were played plenty before the Game Arena was implemented.

Edited by Phish, 12 April 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[VolunteerMod03]

Sorry my mistake, I confused two classes I would never play anyways.... my bad?

So, because something is not the most popular... it should be wiped out all together? Buffs do play a huge role, however as said before debuffs are standard in most MMO's, just because they aren't the most popular doesn't mean people get their way. Some people love debuffing others, and that is that. Why complain about it until it goes away, rather than figuring out a way to beat it? I don't understand this sense of defeat where it is easier to complain until you just get what you want rather than working through it. I know I surely am not that kind of person, I like the challenge of beating and winning over something that I dislike. I hate when I go to a store and see a little kid whining until they get a candy bar after their parents said no 20 times... because in the end they know their parents will give in. That is exactly what I see here, and because of that I hope they keep debuffs so they go by the quality of the game over just pleasing people every time. In business you have to please the customer, but also be true to what your product(game) is, or otherwise you blend in with everyone else.

Yes they(arti's) were played before Game Arena, but they skyrocketed once Game Arena came out.

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 12 April 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[NamirBarades]

The difference is..They took care of the biggest issues with the arti, and now they are not nearly as bad as they were. A really good arti can still keep you stun-locked..the others not so much. When they changed the debuff, they made it so you 100% debuff two buffs every time.. Instead of having a chance it doesn't stick(which arti-stuns are not 100%). Debuff isn't necessarily a bad skill..its how its being used..The problem is that its being abused, which you're failing to see. People are doing it *just* to harass other players and make them rage. Sending in a few debuffers to clear everyone of buffs is not decent warfare..Its just malicious. Its actually harming the game more than helping it. I'm all for mages having it as a survival skill..but making it 100% for two buffs..Just takes two mages to pretty much take all the important ones..Two mages in mspeed gear isn't waring, its being stupid and malicious. Because of how its being used.. the quality of the game is declining.

If you don't believe me, I've got a few mages--You let me know what character names..and I'll keep you debuffed 100% until you get the point.

And if you're still really not sure--Here's a general run down of the war. Side A/B are not representing anyone in particular..just a general idea..

Side A chills in tg
Side B comes in, full buffed, kills the people chilling/afking. They take over the area..
Side A Spawns..goes to buff/booster..
Side B gets defeated/has a difficult time, Brings Debuffer and starts debuffing Side A
Side A gets annoyed after buffing once.. Afks outside of tg because other side

Thats a *general* idea of how its run... BUt really people stop warring because they get sick of losing buffs and dont want to bother at all. Then everyone sits around bored because theres nothing to do.

Maybe after Side B is buffed, and Side A retaliates by sending in a debuffer(which is where you end up seeing debuffing during pvps and such).

I wish boosters didn't get debuffed again.. Like it used to be...at least you could come in on boosters and still fight..Now there just is no point when both sides go retarded-mode and debuff each other. Boosters are also a big issue in this..because when they nerfed all the other buffs, they didn't nerf boosters as well..the gap is larger..So getting debuffed in a TrainingGround War is much worse. Once you get stripped of your buffs when the other side is boostering..there is nothing left but getting raped.


But hey..if you want a game where you just log in and afk--thats cool too.




Edit: And by the way. There are mages that are damn good at what they do that rarely use debuff--who would probably tell you that debuff isn't a 'necessity.' I, personally, would say get rid of debuff give them a few extra offensive/defensive passives.

Edited by NamirBarades, 12 April 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[VolunteerMod03]

I will agree that debuffs shouldn't be 100% guarantee every time.

I also agree that people debuff people just to harass and ruin others good fun times. Trust me, as I've said plenty of times I HATE debuffing just as much as the next person who hates it. However that is the nature of things. People are always going to try and ruin others fun... if you get rid of debuffers, they will move to the next/newest/etc. thing to annoy everyone again. That is why I don't think getting rid of them is the answer. I think with the balancing and updates coming, they should come up with ways for other classes to block debuffs or something, rather than just wiping that skill out all together.

I believe that you can be affective with a mage and keeping someone debuffed 100%.....until they bring their friends to stop you. <<< and that is just it, its war. Are you saying that war isn't malicious? War is hell in every form, game or not.

Wars start because people....

A. For the sake of competition.
B. They think they are better than your own.
C. You did something to them that they didn't like, hence they war you.
D. You won't do something they want you to do, hence they war you.
E. They just plain want to annoying the entire community.... they war you.
.... I could go on past the alphabet here, the point is war is war. People will debuff for the sake of annoying another person. People will also sleep someone because they just want to annoy them. Raiders will fight clerics while cloaked for the sake of annoying and they can... and clerics can't do anything about it. It's just the way it is.

As for what Phish said, I'm not arguing at all... nor arguing for the sake of arguing. Just because I don't like something, doesn't mean I don't understand where that side of things is coming from. I dislike debuffers, but some people enjoy it. It is a part of this game, and as long as there is a part of the community that enjoys it, then they shouldn't lose out just for the sake of it not being the most popular thing around in Rose.

I will still stand by and say that even the best mages have no chance against most pvp players in this game. Not because they suck, but because they aren't given the right balance or good enough skills at least until this new balancing happens.

The ENTIRE point I'm trying to get across here is, even though it can be annoying its war. People who asked for debuffers to go away because it "interupts their war/pvp", is like asking a baby not to cry because its bothering them. LOL. They are going to do it anyway.... that is what makes it war. I certainly never heard of a war where a country says to another "can you please not use missles, and only use guns because missles annoy us, and is quite malicious... so if you could just use guns, that would be great".............................................

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 12 April 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[NamirBarades]

I've seen some very good mages..its possible to be a good mage, but takes a lot more skill than other classes.

But again I said.. switch out debuff for a few passives, then everyone is happy.

[VolunteerMod03]

I don't remember their names, but the last two mages I seen running around that I would consider amazing....was back in UW times. I don't remember who they were, but I remember how they pretty much ran UW's sometimes. I actually enjoy the idea of mage classes, that is why I really hope they bring out mages more throughout these updates they are doing. This game seems to much of a "direct hit" style game at the moment, rather than magic style attacks.

[Metaleux]

Jesus I am reassured to see that I agree with the pros, thx namir and phish

[dom33fr]

(blah blah blah.... )

It is a part of this game, and as long as there is a part of the community that enjoys it, then they shouldn't lose out just for the sake of it not being the most popular thing around in Rose.
of course they should lose it out.. unless they want a more dying game and less $$$ ...are you serious?

Mister VolunteerMod03, saying war is war and if a part of the community is enjoying harassing the others it's fine because.. they can, ... is just an amazingly sad point of view.

If a game feature is enjoyed by 10% (random figure but you'll get the point if u got some neurons) and 90% of other players are just hating it, hating people using it and harassing them with it up to the point they move to play another game then it's the responsibility of developpers to avoid creating such a bad situation to their game. It's not "hell it's cool because some people enjoy doing this because they...can", it's "devs created a very bad thing to their game, unpleasing most of their gamers customers.. maybe they should re-consider the way they're thinking the game"

[VolunteerMod03]

In no way is it harassment. You are calling it harassment because you simply don't like it. How is it harassment for someone to use a skill that is PROVIDED and used for just that reason.... to debuff you. If someone wants to debuff you, they have the right to. If they didn't want people to debuff other people, they wouldn't have that skill there. I'm not promoting the ideal that someone should play a game just to annoy another, but if someone enjoys running around debuffing people... there is no rule against it, furthermore its a PROVIDED skill they implemented into the game... so they have every right to do it. You can say "oh its not that they are using it, is "HOW" they are using it", but that holds no value either. They can use the skill however they please, just as you can use your skills the same way.

Here comes the "rose losing money" excuse and the "game is gonna die out"... and I will point out what many many others say constantly. The game is STILL here after many years of people saying that, people still buy IM more than ever, and nothing is changing. The game is still running at its fullest money wise, and I can guarantee they certainly aren't losing out financially at all with this game, let alone because of a simple debuff skill... come on that is a bit laughable to say.

In a business sense, 10% is still a lot. Money is money, and obviously they see the 90% still paying, so why get rid of the 10% who is possibly paying as well? If 10% really affected the 90% of players who do pay to play, they would do something... but I highly doubt one skill is affecting the impact of their income from this game.

Sad point of view? Nope. I just think they realize that even though its a skill that most don't like, some do and not everything should be catered to for the sake of stopping the whining. Why not just learn to overcome the debuff skill and beat it, rather than just get rid of it cause its an inconvenience to your warring.

What's next if they get rid of debuff? Should I start saying I'm being harassed because I don't like people running around sleeping others all the time? Or should I submit a ticket saying so and so harassed me by pking me in a pk zone? Should arua booster players be banned then because I simply think they are a way for bad players to become decent and I simply don't like it, and they use them constantly to beat people in wars? What else should we get rid of to cater to everyone's war needs?

Edited by VolunteerMod03, 12 April 2013 - 09:29 PM.

[Metaleux]

In no way is it harassment. You are calling it harassment because you simply don't like it. How is it harassment for someone to use a skill that is PROVIDED and used for just that reason.... to debuff you. If someone wants to debuff you, they have the right to. If they didn't want people to debuff other people, they wouldn't have that skill there. I'm not promoting the ideal that someone should play a game just to annoy another, but if someone enjoys running around debuffing people... there is no rule against it, furthermore its a PROVIDED skill they implemented into the game... so they have every right to do it. You can say "oh its not that they are using it, is "HOW" they are using it", but that holds no value either. They can use the skill however they please, just as you can use your skills the same way.

It's not because we don't like it that it is harassment, it's cause it's harrasment we don't like it. It's not because it is possible to do so that it is not something that can be changed, if we follow your point of view, nothing would ever change in rose and debuffs would not be here either. Debuffs were changed before and they should be again.

In a business sense, 10% is still a lot. Money is money, and obviously they see the 90% still paying, so why get rid of the 10% who is possibly paying as well? If 10% really affected the 90% of players who do pay to play, they would do something... but I highly doubt one skill is affecting the impact of their income from this game.

So they won't change it because the 90% still play, do you think that the 10% will quit if they change the debuffs, the only impact it would have would be that they would play their main characters a bit more lol

What's next if they get rid of debuff? Should I start saying I'm being harassed because I don't like people running around sleeping others all the time? Or should I submit a ticket saying so and so harassed me by pking me in a pk zone? Should arua booster players be banned then because I simply think they are a way for bad players to become decent and I simply don't like it, and they use them constantly to beat people in wars? What else should we get rid of to cater to everyone's war needs?

As stated previously, people did complain about sleeping skills, and they were tweaked, so yes things can change in this game. Aruas are different since you need to pay for them, and once you die, it's gone.

I'll be nice and say that you must be a troll, so I'm done here, took me this long to see it lol