117 replies to this topic

[Sacriel]

Fix raids and ress CDs. A key character skill such as ress shouldn't be limited to twice an hour. It actually dissuades people from giving that friendly and gracious raise to each other in the field as well.

[ODKN]

The thing you all fail to understand is that people will get ressed regardless of the skill cool down. If you think that 50 minutes is an acceptable cool down for the res skill, you are basically advocating for the spamming of cash shop items. It doesn't hurt the game to be able to res once every 5 minutes through character skills as very few encounters last long enough to wear you will be able to cast the skill more than once in a single fight. If you are the type of person who thinks a 50 minute c/d makes sense, well have fun spamming your paycheck on spinals. I won't be wasting my time with this game then.

For the last bloody time, the cooldown is 30 minutes when fully leveled. Everyone needs to stop spouting 50 arbitrarily.

[Vendizzle]

shouldn't need to put 3 points in!

[Reifnir]

For the last bloody time, the cooldown is 30 minutes when fully leveled. Everyone needs to stop spouting 50 arbitrarily.

Hey mate, it's about "bloody time" you realize not every Priest build has room for maxed Resurrection skill - there's barely enough to grab the core skills as it is.
Not to mention, the whole thing was first introduced when one of CMs back at SEA went and said that they made the change because SEA players (and I quote) "are more HARDCORE than those in Korea". Talk about a "believable" cover-up...

[Fold]

Every priest can make room for 3/3 res. It was a mandatory thing in kRO2 because of the short cooldown, meaning you can get more resses out per fight. Right now there's no point in maxing it since you can probably get one res out per entire dungeon.

[ODKN]

Hey mate, it's about "bloody time" you realize not every Priest build has room for maxed Resurrection skill - there's barely enough to grab the core skills as it is.
Not to mention, the whole thing was first introduced when one of CMs back at SEA went and said that they made the change because SEA players (and I quote) "are more HARDCORE than those in Korea". Talk about a "believable" cover-up...

Well, then I'm sorry you can't spend two points for a skill that is, apparently, needed so damn badly.

[Flash2k6]

Well, then I'm sorry you can't spend two points for a skill that is, apparently, needed so damn badly.

on kRO almost all priest had ress level 3 and on seaRO quite few had. just because 30min or 50min doesn't even matter. both means 1 or maybe 2 ress per raid which is pretty much no difference...
u usually keep you ress for the last boss and then you can only use it once. noone wants to wait 30min after a wipe for ress to be available again so this is why 50min is correct as this is what many players will have with these cooldowns as these 2 skill points are MUCH more valuable in other skills...

Edited by Flash2k6, 21 April 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[ODKN]

on kRO almost all priest had ress level 3 and on seaRO quite few had. just because 30min or 50min doesn't even matter. both means 1 or maybe 2 ress per raid which is pretty much no difference...
u usually keep you ress for the last boss and then you can only use it once. noone wants to wait 30min after a wipe for ress to be available again so this is why 50min is correct as this is what many players will have with these cooldowns as these 2 skill points are MUCH more valuable in other skills...

If 50 to 30 minutes doesn't matter, than 30-10 doesn't matter, etc.

[594164388]

Raiding content on kRO2 is trivialized because of the short resurrection cooldown. People are free to do whatever stupid actions they want, because they know they will have a resurrection if they die doing it. That is not how the game should be. People should be forced to play well if they want to raid. Dying should be punished, not just shrugged off because of free resurrections.

If you're using the argument "What about the fights that have an instantly-kill-on-a-timer mechanic," those are called dps checks. They are there to force your group to have the required dps to continue. You beat these encounters by collecting better gear, and having viable specs. You do not beat them by throwing corpses at the boss with infinite resurrections.

Take a look at kRO2 right now, it is completely dead, because there is nothing at all to do on it. Every guild has cleared every raid because of how trivial the content is due to the short cooldown of resurrection. Do you want the same to happen to iRO2? This will happen if the resurrection cooldown is reverted back. If you want an easy time getting all your purples and have nothing else to do after you're completely geared, go back to kRO2. Stop complaining about something that improves the end game of this server.

I would just like to point out that there was no cooldown on Resurrection in RO1, and that game isn't dead and broken because of it. However, RO1 did have the fear of dying, because of the exp loss. However, I do think you're right. There needs to be some sort of limitation. I think it would be best to have a target cooldown. So that a specific person can only be the target of resurrection once every hour or whatever. I believe that would fix the problem. That way if something does happen, and people start dropping, you can res them all once and get one more chance. It would be frustrating to get to the last boss and not be able to res the tank because your res is on cooldown from having to res the mage 10min ago because the mage got hit once from one of the bosses minions as it spawned, and died.
Granted, the dungeon system in RO2 is kind of broken as is. Since dungeons don't respawn monsters. If you have a wipe, even without res, you can just walk back to where you were and it doesn't matter since nothing respawns.

Besides, I doubt they're going to change it. With the 50-30min cooldown, it seems like the problem has been solved enough. Even if it could be done better.

Edited by 594164388, 21 April 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[Flash2k6]

If 50 to 30 minutes doesn't matter, than 30-10 doesn't matter, etc.

oh wow... that's in so many ways wrong.. but basically let's focus on the important part...
a 10 min cooldown means you can use it once per try. so if you wipe until everyone is back and buffed you discussed wha went wrong you have to wait for maybe 3min until all cooldown are over and you can ress again.
with a 30min cooldown you would have to wait for 23 minutes. thats more than 7 times of the other cooldown. this means for EVERY wipe you would have to wait for 20 more minutes. you wipe? go wait for another 20 min, try it over and over again without a ress OR simply use cash shop items!
how can you think that this is no difference? seriously Oo

I would just like to point out that there was no cooldown on Resurrection in RO1, and that game isn't dead and broken because of it. However, RO1 did have the fear of dying, because of the exp loss. However, I do think you're right. There needs to be some sort of limitation. I think it would be best to have a target cooldown. So that a specific person can only be the target of resurrection once every hour or whatever. I believe that would fix the problem. That way if something does happen, and people start dropping, you can res them all once and get one more chance. It would be frustrating to get to the last boss and not be able to res the tank because your res is on cooldown from having to res the mage 10min ago because the mage got hit once from one of the bosses minions as it spawned, and died.
Granted, the dungeon system in RO2 is kind of broken as is. Since dungeons don't respawn monsters. If you have a wipe, even without res, you can just walk back to where you were and it doesn't matter since nothing respawns.

Besides, I doubt they're going to change it. With the 50-30min cooldown, it seems like the problem has been solved enough. Even if it could be done better.

well but then oyu are really in trouble if you tanks dies becaue you will have to wait for an hour before you can continue

Edited by Flash2k6, 21 April 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[ODKN]

oh wow... that's in so many ways wrong.. but basically let's focus on the important part...
a 10 min cooldown means you can use it once per try. so if you wipe until everyone is back and buffed you discussed wha went wrong you have to wait for maybe 3min until all cooldown are over and you can ress again.
with a 30min cooldown you would have to wait for 23 minutes. thats more than 7 times of the other cooldown. this means for EVERY wipe you would have to wait for 20 more minutes. you wipe? go wait for another 20 min, try it over and over again without a ress OR simply use cash shop items!
how can you think that this is no difference? seriously Oo



well but then oyu are really in trouble if you tanks dies becaue you will have to wait for an hour before you can continue

And if the cooldown is 50, you have to wait 43 minutes. How can you think there is no difference? o_O See what I mean?

[Flash2k6]

And if the cooldown is 50, you have to wait 43 minutes. How can you think there is no difference? o_O See what I mean?

that's the part i didn't want to mention as i think everyone who passed elementary school should unterstand it but fine...
you just can't change the basic CD time and keep the difference of the levels. here is an extreme example to show it:

lets compare kRO and iRO. kRO has 5/4/3 that's an 1 min reduction per level so this oviously shouldn't change anything regardless if we change the basic time if we follow your logic so let's test it with the iRO CD.
50/49/48 "that's absolutly no difference to 5/4/3" or what would you say know? can you see know what you are doing wrong?

[ODKN]

that's the part i didn't want to mention as i think everyone who passed elementary school should unterstand it but fine...
you just can't change the basic CD time and keep the difference of the levels. here is an extreme example to show it:

lets compare kRO and iRO. kRO has 5/4/3 that's an 1 min reduction per level so this oviously shouldn't change anything regardless if we change the basic time if we follow your logic so let's test it with the iRO CD.
50/49/48 "that's absolutly no difference to 5/4/3" or what would you say know? can you see know what you are doing wrong?

There is nothing wrong, since the cooldown changes by a whopping ten minutes per level, and it's worth it all the same. The same could be said if it had five levels and went down to ten minutes.

You can either make your party wait 43 minutes, or 23 minutes. Whatever you think is reasonable, yo, but I doubt anyone wants to wait around even longer for a priest/sorc who couldn't be arsed to level Resurrection up.

Edited by ODKN, 21 April 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[Flash2k6]

There is nothing wrong, since the cooldown changes by a whopping ten minutes per level, and it's worth it all the same. The same could be said if it had five levels and went down to ten minutes. You can either make your party wait 43 minutes, or 23 minutes. Whatever you think is reasonable, yo.

well i give up on that... maybe you never had percentage calculation i don't know but that unimportant

however:
yeah that are REALLY to good options sitting around for 23 minutes doing nothing or waiting for 43 minutes... GREAT! this is how a fun game is made by forcing to player to sit around and wait for CDs.


no one of us wants this game to be too easy and don't want to make it unimportant if someone dies so what about offering different CDs for warp portal to check?
I'd go with 30/20/10 or 20/15/10 something like that. as there is no fight that will last longer as 10 minutes you have excactly 1 ress per try per player which sound fair for me.

[Theoretical]

Sounds like the raids just need to be redesigned so you can actually avoid the OHKO moves.

[Flash2k6]

Sounds like the raids just need to be redesigned so you can actually avoid the OHKO moves.

that indeed would be the best solution (though it would make ress kinda complety worthless ^^). I'd go for this but the question is: how realistic is that? i think it's kinda hard to balance raids and making them hard without unavoidable deaths (not saying that others haven't done it already). probably won't be too easy for gravity but if they can this would be nice.

[594164388]

that indeed would be the best solution (though it would make ress kinda complety worthless ^^). I'd go for this but the question is: how realistic is that? i think it's kinda hard to balance raids and making them hard without unavoidable deaths (not saying that others haven't done it already). probably won't be too easy for gravity but if they can this would be nice.

Now that I've read the thread.
It's very realistic for it to be balanced by letting you avoid OHKO moves. Unavoidable OHKO is just a cheap shot from the developer. It has nothing to do with how prepared or how skilled the party is. Having to use a specific move, or having to move to a specific spot in order to avoid the move is completely plausible. Making it hard to avoid would be what makes in balanced. People failing and getting hit by it, would make sure res will be relevant. Honestly, someone will fail sometimes. That's just a fact. Res will always be relevant.

[ExeltusPendragon]

that indeed would be the best solution (though it would make ress kinda complety worthless ^^). I'd go for this but the question is: how realistic is that? i think it's kinda hard to balance raids and making them hard without unavoidable deaths (not saying that others haven't done it already). probably won't be too easy for gravity but if they can this would be nice.

Well how were the kRO2 later raids and hard modes? Asiasoft rebalanced those encounters to be harder, so in theory it couldnt be THAT hard to readjust. In some cases its a matter of changing things like 'unavoidable attacks and raidwide aoe can't crit'. A required HP threshold to withstand the non-critting attacks is totally reasonable, but expecting people to compete against rng isn't.

[Flash2k6]

Now that I've read the thread.
It's very realistic for it to be balanced by letting you avoid OHKO moves. Unavoidable OHKO is just a cheap shot from the developer. It has nothing to do with how prepared or how skilled the party is. Having to use a specific move, or having to move to a specific spot in order to avoid the move is completely plausible. Making it hard to avoid would be what makes in balanced. People failing and getting hit by it, would make sure res will be relevant. Honestly, someone will fail sometimes. That's just a fact. Res will always be relevant.

as i already said: i'm not saying this can't be done i'm just saying that i don't believe gravity can do this in short time. it's too late if all players stoped playing the game frustrated because they couldn't go further thatn Bapho / Arena. we know that gravity isn't the fasted developer and there is much potential for beeing too easy (too easy avoidable), too repetitive (always the same mechanic) or bugged. so yeah i think we should really should move in that directing but having this done in the next 4 weeks or so is not realistic imho.

Well how were the kRO2 later raids and hard modes? Asiasoft rebalanced those encounters to be harder, so in theory it couldnt be THAT hard to readjust. In some cases its a matter of changing things like 'unavoidable attacks and raidwide aoe can't crit'. A required HP threshold to withstand the non-critting attacks is totally reasonable, but expecting people to compete against rng isn't.

i can't say too much about it as it's too long ago i was actively raiding hard modes but i think OHKO AOEs are the biggest problem though just removing them might cause everyting to get too easy... we need OHKO with reasonable chance te ress them or a mechanic were (almost) all death can be prevented but still have many chances to die by doing somethign wrong

Edited by Flash2k6, 21 April 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Lucentos]

IMHO Cash Shop must be an "Easy Mode" button in the Raids rather than "Buy or Die" button. Leave P2W to PvP and WoE areas.

Edited by Lucentos, 21 April 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[Faolain]

that indeed would be the best solution (though it would make ress kinda complety worthless ^^).

No it wouldn't. First hand experience tells me people will still stand in the stupid and whine when they die.

Edited by Faolain, 21 April 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Vendizzle]

And if the cooldown is 50, you have to wait 43 minutes. How can you think there is no difference? o_O See what I mean?

Just stop posting......

[feed3r]

Just to add some neutral stance, the 30 minute cooldown is before Vigor and Guardian.

With 20% Vigor the cooldown is 24 minutes and if you activate Guardian its down to 15 minutes. Guardians is also shared so someone else can open a Guardian for the priest to gain the effect, however there is a 10 minute 'no guardian effect' debuff after that you cannot benefit for guardians - so it only allows 1-2 ress to benefit from this shorter cooldown. 15 minutes may feel long but its pretty much every raid attempt as it takes time to re-gather, rebuff and the bosses only starts crazy damage from 90% life onwards.

Also spinels have a 10 minute cooldown so as much as you want to pay for unlimited ress, you're also restricted by that - if your whole party dies boss will reset irregardless of how many spinels you have. If half the party dies every AOE they just wont be able to clear the boss.

[RevLoveJoy]

^Guardian cooldown is about 20+ minutes. My guardian boosted ress cd from the other version is 19m. The 2nd ress would need to wait for the Guardian meter to fill up but the situation at that point would more likely need the resu ASAP.

[Nitro]

Raiding content on kRO2 is trivialized because of the short resurrection cooldown. People are free to do whatever stupid actions they want, because they know they will have a resurrection if they die doing it. That is not how the game should be. People should be forced to play well if they want to raid. Dying should be punished, not just shrugged off because of free resurrections.

If you're using the argument "What about the fights that have an instantly-kill-on-a-timer mechanic," those are called dps checks. They are there to force your group to have the required dps to continue. You beat these encounters by collecting better gear, and having viable specs. You do not beat them by throwing corpses at the boss with infinite resurrections.

Take a look at kRO2 right now, it is completely dead, because there is nothing at all to do on it. Every guild has cleared every raid because of how trivial the content is due to the short cooldown of resurrection. Do you want the same to happen to iRO2? This will happen if the resurrection cooldown is reverted back. If you want an easy time getting all your purples and have nothing else to do after you're completely geared, go back to kRO2. Stop complaining about something that improves the end game of this server.

TLDR: "no content on KRO2, so we nerf res so you guys take longer to notice. STFU about the cooldown until new content is finished, nubs."