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#26 Facekiller

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:31 AM

bots dont even bother trying to hide the fact they are bots now... they wear better gear than i do and they form parties to take down larger prey... somebody had to create a 3rd party program to deal with the spam bots even (something that should be handled by Gravity not by a 3rd party)...
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#27 Chipotle

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

What really gets on my nerve is the chars ive caught botting like a few weeks back(and reported) being leeched to trans in abyss/bios by "big" guilds. Ive seen it more than once. Those are the kind of bots I think need to identified and eliminated. Unfortunately they cannot be banned unless caught in the act by the GMs which doesnt happen fast enough(nobody's fault, just bureaucratic delay)

Edited by Chipotle, 29 May 2013 - 08:38 AM.

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#28 Lunebeam

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

In renewal I've been seeing a group of bots around comando. All the names start with i(name). Seen some there a week+. It easy to tell its a bots because it spams first aid while walking. If it dies it sits in town, gets up to use first aid, then sits back down, repeat constantly.

During a few days of 2x a person was afk in racheal town for hours as its priest bot was constantly siting down, then using a buff, then sitting back down, then getting back up to use a different buff. It was so annoying I ended up turning off the sound in iro.

The comndo bots weren't well programed at all. They'd fight anything and the little newt guy, killed one of them until he'd leveled a lot.


I got the spam filter updated, at first it was shock going into towns and it being so quiet and peaceful. I spent so much time either hitting reject or ignoring it.


And in renewal its easy to see prices on botted things falling. Dead branches, cards, kavo, and so on. And once bots destroy the value of something, they just move onto some other item to ruin. When the in-game drops all get worthless, it inflates the prices of things that cannot be farmed like cash shop or by high level well geared players. New players see a wall, all the good stuff costs so much. And all the regular ways they would farm are worth so little thanks to the bots.

Edited by Lunebeam, 29 May 2013 - 08:50 AM.

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#29 HansLowell

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:08 AM

Yea I remember that bot party at stroufs when i was farming items for sleiphnir seal. Crit Sin with Priest and a Crusader. This is really wrong. Yea I've seen a lot of bot with (I) on their name on classic. I've reported many bots at hugel race also, they neved got banned. I even found the real user in when I was cloaking I guess. now they just show their armor in their inventory lol. This game is not worth playing anymore it was good but something should replace it someday.
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#30 Segaia

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

Ok now let me take a deep breath to not get overly ranty here...

So, I just returned from a long break when the server just started and what I saw blew my mind. All common maps were invested with bots. To be clear here I'm talking about 2 or 3, I'm talking about 5-7 upwards on weekends and this is game breaking. I was leveling my Swordsman in the usual spots: Payon, Toy Factory, Byalan, even Geos at some point with a spear when I got desperate... GUESS WHAT I HAVE QUIT IT. After 5 hours of accomplishing next to nothing I thought to just "roll with a mage and see if I can grab some floras"... So after I changed to mage and I was full of energy to begin my new career....

Bot infested Mandragora Map -Check
Bot Infesed Muka Map - Check
Bot infested Spore Map - Check
Bot infested Wolf Map - Check
Bot infested Flora Map (wth I can't even...) - Check
went to Culvert - Check Check Check


Mostly I had a hard time even doing enough damage to a mob to be allowed to lot the drops, this is laughable. They don't even bother, they just KS you and move on.

Raise the money-wall. Any other method has never been effective against bots. Afraid it will turn off new players? Well look how good it works now! You may claim putting up a cashwall is not player friendly but when all newbie maps are swarmed with bots how is that player friendly at all!? The game is simply unplayable.

Moneywall or botfest. Now you go and choose your death....


PS.: Maybe make a classic-poll and ask the players?

Edited by Segaia, 29 May 2013 - 10:15 AM.

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#31 kbb93

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:34 AM

I definitely agree with you Sagaia...a poll is needed. I had a long conversation with one of my guildies about the moneywall problem (inflation will surely happen if bots become extinct) and I like that option a lot more than the current situation. Besides, the inflation rates will mess up the server for a while but things always subside. I suggest starting slow with the bot-banning, i.e. mainly the leveling maps that don't offer much currency. Then from there work your way to low-level dungeons and fields, eventually to big-time spots such as Raydrics and Sanctuary (oh yes, Sanctuary already has it's own cult of bots).

I spend a good amount of real money on this game via VIP and KP, as I am sure that most people who've posted do too, so we need some kind of change here before you start losing dedicated players like myself.

Gravity loses real players -> loses real money -> loses bots' motivation for playing -> no players at all.
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#32 AlemSiel

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

You guys are mixing issues, the real problem here (as stated before) are the bots, free to play games are really rewarding to companies and also players when are well implemented/ aren´t really pay to win, and one thing that bots do is this, i was really thankfull when i see that i could buy with zeny to other players Kafra stuff, but then i see that i cant get zeny if i did not get WPP, and that its because of the bots (or harder because of them), what this game needs its a system that bocks bots, not a real player block, I would never even play this game in 2012-2013 if it werent FTP .... also a lot of my friends will play again, and we have only played before in private servers and like 5 years ago, i enjoy it and can afford trowing money to this game, but if they find that they cant do anything they will just leave, that its not becouse of some moneywall, if it happens, it will be because the game its in a bad spot, and in this case in a really bad bot place.

I hope that we as a comunity could find a solution to this problem, good luck in all. Also, Really sorry for my english, its not my first thongue, i am still learning it, if you can help me with it, i will be really gratefull.

Edited by AlemSiel, 29 May 2013 - 10:56 AM.

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#33 Dirsion

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

I've spent like $160 in the last couple of months on ro because of a few reasons, 1st was vip, second was cashshop grove packs, and 3rd thats pretty much how i make money now since farming drops that are worth things arent very easy to do in large enough amounts to make a decent price....>.>

Also you can which bots have been around longest, (sees a lv 99 rogue) well theres a veteran bot right there
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#34 kbb93

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

After doing a bit of research and thinking i've thought of a potential solution to our problem...after viewing how other games deter/detect the use of third party programs it's obvious that something such a a CAPTCHA test won't work for RO. First of all it'd be too easy for bots to overcome, as well as it would lift the suspension of disbelief from the players which is pertinent to enjoying any game.
With this said, I feel something such as NPC-Based tests or random occurrences may work. By an NPC test I mean that to enter certain dungeons or areas you must talk to an NPC who mixes up what is said, what the answers are, and where the answers are each time you speak to them. This will initially take a little bit of code work for the Gravity team to do but once completely should put a pretty heavy halt on bot activity for any area with this type of system.
The other method, random occurrences, isn't my favorite but could be an option for those players whom have been online for so many hours out of the day (logging out doesn't matter). It would be an event that would either pull up a chat window with some sort of dialog and answer (relevant to the game as to keep the suspension of disbelief) or teleport you to an area where you must accomplish a simple task, i.e. hit the bapho jr. (1 hp) named "xxx" and bring the "xxx" colored item back to me, and for this task you receive some sort of prize, then being warped back to your original location. These random occurrences would obviously have to be disabled for big dungeons and MVP maps but I believe would work quite well.
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#35 WaterBaron

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

I often wonder why they don't ban more bots. They clearly could, but they don't. The only thing I can think of is that somebody somewhere has decided that they're not going to make any money doing it. Which is incredible, considering the amount of damage that it does to the game.

Can Oda or somebody give some insight into why nothing is done? Obviously you're going to say that you do all you can with the resources you have, which means that you have little to no resources because little to nothing is done. Either that, or the company is amazingly incompetent and dysfunctional (just hypothesizing).

Either way I don't really care, I'm just fascinated by this puzzle.
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#36 Dirsion

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:09 PM

After doing a bit of research and thinking i've thought of a potential solution to our problem...after viewing how other games deter/detect the use of third party programs it's obvious that something such a a CAPTCHA test won't work for RO. First of all it'd be too easy for bots to overcome, as well as it would lift the suspension of disbelief from the players which is pertinent to enjoying any game.
With this said, I feel something such as NPC-Based tests or random occurrences may work. By an NPC test I mean that to enter certain dungeons or areas you must talk to an NPC who mixes up what is said, what the answers are, and where the answers are each time you speak to them. This will initially take a little bit of code work for the Gravity team to do but once completely should put a pretty heavy halt on bot activity for any area with this type of system.
The other method, random occurrences, isn't my favorite but could be an option for those players whom have been online for so many hours out of the day (logging out doesn't matter). It would be an event that would either pull up a chat window with some sort of dialog and answer (relevant to the game as to keep the suspension of disbelief) or teleport you to an area where you must accomplish a simple task, i.e. hit the bapho jr. (1 hp) named "xxx" and bring the "xxx" colored item back to me, and for this task you receive some sort of prize, then being warped back to your original location. These random occurrences would obviously have to be disabled for big dungeons and MVP maps but I believe would work quite well.




yea i disgree with those, im on average 10+ hours a day right now and i would have to be in ti or out leveling ym guild members only to be interrupted but a force chat window and killed or warped away in critcal moment that the party needs me....>.> it would suck so bad,
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#37 Facekiller

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:12 PM

renewal has just as many if not more bots than classic... payon field is full of bots right now and i just spent the last hour killing random monsters somebody spawned there via DBs trying to quell their influx (bots dont care if they die).... but some of these bots really piss me off.... running around collecting blank cards and whatnot (there shouldnt be that many people in that level of map on 1st class characters with spare cards).... and meanwhile the GMs seem to be wasting their time looking at cat porn or whatever....
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#38 TsubasaWingz

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

Raise the money-wall. Any other method has never been effective against bots. Afraid it will turn off new players? Well look how good it works now! You may claim putting up a cashwall is not player friendly but when all newbie maps are swarmed with bots how is that player friendly at all!? The game is simply unplayable.

Moneywall or botfest. Now you go and choose your death....


PS.: Maybe make a classic-poll and ask the players?


Quote for truth.
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#39 Lunebeam

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:57 PM

Theres bots also pretty bad in places people rarely go in renewal. I'm still trying to get an idea of the life of a bot from 1-99.

It seems low level thief bots like the dungeon with skeleton workers a whole lot. They were literly all over the place and I think using hide a lot too when a monster they didn't want came around. My swordsman got the bad end of the crusader item collection test and I had to get lanterns there.

I've made two rouges now and I'm surprized I never see bots in the test or around that area.

This is about the life of a rouge bot I've seem so far about.

training grounds
spore/p.spore/?
Skeleton workers
payon cave/pyramid
Sometimes comado (Alligaters used to be infestation crazy)
Possibly ground petites if the bot is going glast heim
At some point they stay in greffen dungeon or glast heim until 99.

Edited by Lunebeam, 29 May 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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#40 BIuewind

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:08 PM

This is about the life of a rouge bot I've seem so far about.

training grounds
spore/p.spore/?
Skeleton workers
payon cave/pyramid
Sometimes comado (Alligaters used to be infestation crazy)
Possibly ground petites if the bot is going glast heim
At some point they stay in greffen dungeon or glast heim until 99.


You forgot Byalan
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#41 kbb93

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:23 PM

yea i disgree with those, im on average 10+ hours a day right now and i would have to be in ti or out leveling ym guild members only to be interrupted but a force chat window and killed or warped away in critcal moment that the party needs me....>.> it would suck so bad,


I feel the same way but I felt like it was the right train of thought so I wanted to include it.
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#42 HikariYari

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:42 PM

I wish they there was a simple fix for the issue, but people are going to do what they can to get ahead or makes them money. If people didn't buy zeny or the few guilds that set up farms for WoE supplies then maybe there would be hope. It's pretty hopeless at the moment until somebody finds a sure way to combat the bots without hindering the players.

Maybe turn the novice grounds into a quest system and disable monster exp and drops. "This means give the unique Monster IDs as well". Give them exactly enough exp to get base10/job10 when the complete them as well as a tiny bit of zeny like 1k max between all quests. Maybe go on a banning spree during a later maintenance.

Edited by HikariYari, 29 May 2013 - 08:47 PM.

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#43 Facekiller

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:31 PM

the training grounds is the gate to the game... stop the bots there and you stop the bots in game...
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#44 Segaia

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:23 PM

With this said, I feel something such as NPC-Based tests or random occurrences may work. By an NPC test I mean that to enter certain dungeons or areas you must talk to an NPC who mixes up what is said, what the answers are, and where the answers are each time you speak to them. This will initially take a little bit of code work for the Gravity team to do but once completely should put a pretty heavy halt on bot activity for any area with this type of system.


This could only work under 2 circumstances, but I think we are on the right track here:

1) The NPC for these questions is required to proceed right into the game or to the training grounds - namely the one that requires to type in your name at the start (as hinted by Facekiller).
2) The questions asked would need to come from a huge pool (around 500+) and need to be common knowledge. 5 would be enough for a player to answer at once.


While I still think a paywall is the more foolproof method this one is the best alternative without decreasing the actual game experience. It "seems" like a lot of work for those 500 questions but why not make it a community project? A lot of us would be glad helping out and send a simple excel list with questions and answers to a specified email. Maybe make an event out of it? The player with the best/most questions gets 100 kafra points or whatever. When the bots get used to the questions you just do another event. You entertain your customers and get your bot-problem done.


PS.: A good way to keep the bots from learning all the 500+ questions is to alternate them on a weekly basis (the first 120 for the first week, another 120 for the next and so on).

Edited by Segaia, 29 May 2013 - 10:33 PM.

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#45 Lyrage

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:33 PM

AFAIK, methods like that can still be bypassed once those botters obtain a list of those questions. Updating the questions every maintenance might work, but I would like to suggest to update it daily so that those cheating kiddies would always have to update their programs daily too. :D

EDIT:

Or make it 2 NPCs! You know, for multilayer security.

Edited by Lyrage, 29 May 2013 - 10:37 PM.

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#46 HealingPalms

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:29 AM

What really gets on my nerve is the chars ive caught botting like a few weeks back(and reported) being leeched to trans in abyss/bios by "big" guilds. Ive seen it more than once. Those are the kind of bots I think need to identified and eliminated. Unfortunately they cannot be banned unless caught in the act by the GMs which doesnt happen fast enough(nobody's fault, just bureaucratic delay)

Well when you say the big guilds bot it then leech it idk I mean it's so easy to make any class a good lvl to leech it seems pointless to bot it which is slower than if you power lvl it. I mean to get 99/70 isn't hard then if they are a big guild it should be able to hand out some gods to use on it or the leeched to easy leech it.
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#47 kbb93

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:29 AM

2) The questions asked would need to come from a huge pool (around 500+) and need to be common knowledge. 5 would be enough for a player to answer at once.


Love the idea. I feel like half the work is done now all we need is for the iRO team to take action; hopefully you're all looking at this post because we are willing to do what it takes to stop this problem.
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#48 EtNox

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:22 PM

This could only work under 2 circumstances, but I think we are on the right track here:

1) The NPC for these questions is required to proceed right into the game or to the training grounds - namely the one that requires to type in your name at the start (as hinted by Facekiller).
2) The questions asked would need to come from a huge pool (around 500+) and need to be common knowledge. 5 would be enough for a player to answer at once.


Imo a complete rework of the novice ground could solve our problem easily.
fRo actually had a pretty interesting novie ground - you had to answer 3 questions after giving your name and choosing your game language. One from common knowledge (like what kind of day do we have), one from Ro knowledge (like what element does seyren windsor in bio3 have) and one was answering which number you see on the picture.

Depending on the number of "right" guesses things you got a different route through the novie ground, ranging from 3 rooms to 10. i only know the 3 "always present" ones - one of them (again) had some pictures to answer on, one had "kill 3 blue plants/green plants/white plants/shrooms", and one had a "add the numbers on the shirts of the NPCs you can see", where you had like 3 soccer-clothed NPCs with random numbers.
Finally you had that kind of personality test we all get at the end.

This actually forced people to make bots per hand, and thus hurts by far more when they get banned. You can't shut down bots entirely, the only way to reduce it is when it seriously hurts to lose a bot.
Currently botting is a "low risk, high reward" thing, but i hope Oda got a clue about the situation (as well, he said they banned 100+ bots during last maintenance...hope he does something - finally).
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#49 Facekiller

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:36 PM

too bad they cant ban the people who buy zeny.... cut out the customer base and the zeny sellers wont have a reason to sell... plus screw those zeny buying cheaters
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#50 Lunebeam

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:42 PM

Other ragonaroks don't have a problem telling when bots transfer things. I don't see why this one can't know it either.
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