85 replies to this topic

[EtNox]

Other ragonaroks don't have a problem telling when bots transfer things. I don't see why this one can't know it either.

It's not problematic to tell when you're looking at it ingame. The problem is -> our GMs don't act/work ingame, they work on tickets. Trying to solve ingame problematics (like zeny sellers, botters, exploited bugs, modded exes etc) just by judging from a couple pictures doesn't work when you don't know what you're looking at.
You could compare it to some mod in e-sport leagues who's not playing professional himself. They often judge situations/games by what they directly see on screen, not what's happening around it on the rest of the map. They just lack knowledge and experience to get whats happening, and when you see some screenshot from one player with tons of highlvl players (most of them being rogues) on a low-lvl map, you should get that something is fishy. And then you should look at the whole map, not just at a screenshot.

[TychoBrahe]

Take a solution from the police. They figured out that while they couldn't stop all crime, sending patrols out at certain intervals created an environment of uncertainty for the criminals and seriously cut down on crime. It was a data-based approach. I can't find the article I read on it, but it made a lot of sense.

So have a GM park themselves on bot hotspots every once in a while with an unpredictable pattern. Check random characters. Make a big show of it. You can't catch all the bots, but you can scare a lot of them into doing something more productive with their CPU cycles.

Edited by TychoBrahe, 30 May 2013 - 06:55 PM.

[Facekiller]

they have the time to pop onto the forums to post random crap in random threads when they could hop on the game and slam the ban hammer down

[HeIIraiser]

WARNING: All of you will probably be banned or suspended from the forums if you bring topics such as these into the threads and or if you keep developing them.

Edited by HeIIraiser, 31 May 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[TrueMaster]

they have the time to pop onto the forums to post random crap in random threads when they could hop on the game and slam the ban hammer down

Thought this myself and even made a post about it. The response was some half hearted post about how they really do care about the game... Yeah they sure really do care when there is about umm I duno 50 spam bots on the market street of pront among many other current problems. Send a ticket we might get to it in a few days or we might just throw it in the garbage.

WARNING: All of you will probably be banned from the forums if you bring topics such as these in the threads or if you keep developing them.

Why do you think i hold my tongue at all? I really have a lot more to say about this than i am willing to post

[HeIIraiser]

Thought this myself and even made a post about it. The response was some half hearted post about how they really do care about the game... Yeah they sure really do care when there is about umm I duno 50 spam bots on the market street of pront among many other current problems. Send a ticket we might get to it in a few days or we might just throw it in the garbage.



Why do you think i hold my tongue at all? I really have a lot more to say about this than i am willing to post

Because that's what they do.

[kbb93]

Take a solution from the police. They figured out that while they couldn't stop all crime, sending patrols out at certain intervals created an environment of uncertainty for the criminals and seriously cut down on crime. It was a data-based approach. I can't find the article I read on it, but it made a lot of sense.

So have a GM park themselves on bot hotspots every once in a while with an unpredictable pattern. Check random characters. Make a big show of it. You can't catch all the bots, but you can scare a lot of them into doing something more productive with their CPU cycles.

Great idea. If anyone, Oda or other, were actually listening to this thread than some real progress could be made.

[ZeroTigress]

Take a solution from the police. They figured out that while they couldn't stop all crime, sending patrols out at certain intervals created an environment of uncertainty for the criminals and seriously cut down on crime. It was a data-based approach. I can't find the article I read on it, but it made a lot of sense.

So have a GM park themselves on bot hotspots every once in a while with an unpredictable pattern. Check random characters. Make a big show of it. You can't catch all the bots, but you can scare a lot of them into doing something more productive with their CPU cycles.

Scarecrow tactics would only work for so long before the botters catch on.

[Althes]

Raise the cost to botting, that is the most useful way. The matter is, how to?

[TychoBrahe]

Scarecrow tactics would only work for so long before the botters catch on.

It would involve the GM actually banning a few botters from time to time to make sure they stay afraid. The vast majority will be deterred, and the few that remain will be easy to identify and deal with.

[kerrylee]

We need the real truth, is it because resource issue (current GM's are too busy and no budget for extra headcount), or GM's think bots increase players count, or bots buy Kafra gears?

If that's the last one, please stop dreaming. I know a botter in game whose main is high level trans and very nicely geared without ever spending real dollar on WPE or VIP.

I've seen characters that were botted in Hugel monster race with public chat buying WPE, that's how they got their Kafra gears.

I like to talk to new players in game whenever I can meet a real one among the seas of bots around Payon Kafra, one of their biggest concern is the bot situation. They see bots everywhere they go, the items they hunt worth nothing, no party or friends to be made because other "people" seem rude and always ignore them. Not to say they may think 'join 'em if you can't beat 'em"..... and there born a new generation of botters.

I spent a lot buying WPE, but seeing botters have better upgraded Kafra gears than I do without spending anything, more or less I feel stupid spending so much on WPE.

And if this continues, no new players joining, current (honest) players got fed up, what will the server be? Fully automated, I think.

EDIT:
And spotting bots is VERY EASY, if only GM's would spend some time in game. Random patrol twice a week in heavily botted maps would net tonnes of bots, random check on Ragial would show impossible shops with like 2 dozens low-level cards, random pop-up in Payon would see little "newbies" running dilligently to and fro Kafra. Spotting bots is no rocket science, and you don't need microscope to identify the species!!

Edited by kerrylee, 31 May 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[HeIIraiser]

Raise the cost to botting, that is the most useful way. The matter is, how to?

Make the server P2P again.

[zr0rieu]

good 1 lol

[twiiins]

Make the server P2P again.

+1

[Althes]

Make the server P2P again.

But if GM don't deal with bots, still the same.
The matter is if GM do ban bots.
And it is very unlikely that they will change to P2P, although it may be an option. Because it requires so many works that in current situation, I can almost see they won't burn themselves in this matter.
And I can see too that there are many other players feel exactly what I am feeling now, stupid paying on VIP and/or WPE. The feeling becomes stronger when I see other people feels the same as me, it kind of enhance the feeling.

But the fact is, we are being humiliating ignored and discarded. Oda is here.

I don't know what exactly happening to them, and in fact I don't really care of them. (I used to think on their side but I am feeling now that this is not the right attitude) We paid, and we should gain what we should gain. I feel like we are begging them for charity. This is not a charity, this is a real thing.
And, the truth is, either you pay and play with the situation right now, or you go.
And I am not ready to go just yet, because if i'm ready to go, I won't show up on this forums.
So basically it is pointless to stress GM with reason like I will quit if you don't ban bot.
And basically there is no other strong reason that can really stress GM to take action.


LOL!

Edited by Althes, 31 May 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[Facekiller]

they need to be able to trace bots back to the very computer used... then ban ALL accounts linked to that computer and seal it so no more accounts can be made from that computer... IF they could do that then botting would be done for.... its not worth getting a new computer just to make new bots

[kbb93]

For some reason the announcement that just canvased Classic got under my skin. RO Moderators: Please don't ask us to get involved in the community when you don't. Our biggest problem is right in our face, and here is a thread creating ideas to stop it, yet nothing has been done; not even a response.

[HeIIraiser]

they need to be able to trace bots back to the very computer used... then ban ALL accounts linked to that computer and seal it so no more accounts can be made from that computer... IF they could do that then botting would be done for.... its not worth getting a new computer just to make new bots

This statement will probably cause fear into all the botters out there and scare the s.h.i.e.t out of them.

Edited by HeIIraiser, 31 May 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Oda]

Many of these suggestions we have considered and many of them we have tried. For the people in the thread suggesting that bots are allowed here or even encouraged by the GM Team please put that out of your heads. For the reasons mentioned here, they make it very difficult for new players to get in the game, give a negative impression on returning and current players, and their selling undercuts a legitimate market. Even when we had GMs dedicated solely to removing bots from the game, patrolling hourly and conducting mass bans the bots did not disappear.

-More questions at the novice training grounds are an option.

-Teleporting long-playing users out of the game to ask them questions is not

-Zeny buyers are suspended when zeny bot ring sellers are banned

-When bots are banned, all accounts on that IP are also suspended.

-Having a question pop up during gameplay would be difficult to implement, even if it were disabled in towns where merchants AFK, WoE or high level areas

-Banning bots at novice training grounds is inefficient as it is cutting botters down at the moment they have the least to lose and the easiest time getting back to.

I understand your frustrations with bots and Shakyamuni knows that I've had my own regarding this problem.

If you can keep this thread for suggesting and tune out the people only complaining I will promise that you will have my ear to this thread.

[Lyrage]

Many of these suggestions we have considered and many of them we have tried. For the people in the thread suggesting that bots are allowed here or even encouraged by the GM Team please put that out of your heads. For the reasons mentioned here, they make it very difficult for new players to get in the game, give a negative impression on returning and current players, and their selling undercuts a legitimate market. Even when we had GMs dedicated solely to removing bots from the game, patrolling hourly and conducting mass bans the bots did not disappear.

-More questions at the novice training grounds are an option.

-Teleporting long-playing users out of the game to ask them questions is not

-Zeny buyers are suspended when zeny bot ring sellers are banned

-When bots are banned, all accounts on that IP are also suspended.

-Having a question pop up during gameplay would be difficult to implement, even if it were disabled in towns where merchants AFK, WoE or high level areas

-Banning bots at novice training grounds is inefficient as it is cutting botters down at the moment they have the least to lose and the easiest time getting back to.

I understand your frustrations with bots and Shakyamuni knows that I've had my own regarding this problem.

If you can keep this thread for suggesting and tune out the people only complaining I will promise that you will have my ear to this thread.

Had?? Does that mean there are no GMs in-charge of patrolling the servers these days?

I would suggest that the management should get one back ASAP. Granted, bots will not disappear immediately, but having people know that iRO has GMs that are dedicated solely for banning these cheaters could really discourage others to join their flock. Actively banning bots is just the first step of minimizing them until they're gone, it encourages a lot of players to be vigilant and play legit.

I believe that a cultural approach against botting would be an interesting one. Promote a culture of fair play! Yes, it is a gradual process but it the effect may render those 3rd party programs useless despite being available in the public.

Edited by Lyrage, 31 May 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Oda]

They do patrol, and of course there are still investigations based on reports, but when there are 1500 tickets those have to take priority.

[WaterBaron]

Even when we had GMs dedicated solely to removing bots from the game, patrolling hourly and conducting mass bans the bots did not disappear.

Well there's your problem right there. GM's patrolling the game hourly is the right idea. Bots will never "disappear", but keeping them in check and banning them before they're allowed to exist for extended periods of time has a beneficial effect. Think about your bathroom. Do you clean it weekly even if it doesn't look "dirty", or do you just let it go for months because, hey, that mold is just going to grow back anyway? Or worse, do you wait for someone else to complain about it? Banning bots is a chore, it's maintenance, and it's thankless. But it has to be done. I hope the GM's appreciate the work that goes into a clean server.

[Atrista]

maybe there could be a gm bot that bans bots XD that just came to my mind, something like, i`ve seen bots who teleport away automatically once they see someone in their screen so you cannot see their name, i wonder if that same technique couldnt be used in a way to ban bots that get in the view range? like for example, if the gm bot sees someone pass by with a priest following them, they will follow that person for a period of time, maybe a few minutes, and if the priest is constantly casting certain sets of buffs on that person, ban them both... or at least it could save the names of the characters it was following or make a replay or video so an actual gm can do the investigation later. though i dont know how that would go for the ones who dont have priest bots following them... another thing i thought about too is, one time i heard someone say that bots dont use the actual game client, they have their own custom client with all their botting tools implemented in it... so, isnt there any way to detect if someone is using the actual, official client or a fake client? if there is, this could be another way to stop bots... maybe some kind of hidden authentication that only the actual game client has, and the server would reject any client that tried to connect to it without that.. i also posted another suggestion on another thread, but that thread isnt getting too many answers, i dont even know if anyone reads it, so yeah, my other suggestion is in here. in that thread my first suggestion is the same as what kbb93 suggested here, so it can be disregarded, i`m refering to the second suggestion. i'm not sure if any of these are possible or if someone has already suggested before or not(i havent found anything when i searched.. and i really rather not spend hours digging through millions of threads)... but just in case, i'm throwing the ideas out there. i want to see the bots gone so i can farm at places that are currently infested with them! maybe if more people try to think up creative ways to deal with them, we will eventually find something that will stop them for good

[Oda]

There are issues with having bots or non employees of gravity conducting bot tests and suspending accounts, an oversight and legal issue but adding an ability to be flagging a bot account is something we've been looking at trying to have developed for a while.

[PinoyBoy]

There are issues with having bots or non employees of gravity conducting bot tests and suspending accounts, an oversight and legal issue but adding an ability to be flagging a bot account is something we've been looking at trying to have developed for a while.

like some right click a other charecter option? and under reject whispering is "Flag as a bot"? if this is the case, how will you figure out if it is a bot. and not a Grinding person.. (then even add the people trolling)