79 replies to this topic

[DrunkinMonkey]

deffinatly seems to be to many healing skills you could easily cut 2 of the middle heals out for pty heals and target heals which would free up 10pts  possibly even a 3rd as you only really use 1 or 2 party heals and heavenly grace at high lvls (atlest in my experience)

[Bendersmom]

Ok, I tried playing in Enter mode so I could use my number keys to help with the lack of skill bar room, but for someone who talks as much as i do.....yeah no good.  Leo, we have way too many heals and buffs.  On my #1 bar are 7heals, red pot, blue pot, sleep, voltage stun, mute.  On my #2 bar are 12 buffs, and on my alt bar  are mana flame, salamander flame, puri, revive, mystic eye, mana shield, mount and some food.  i have spots on that bar but i really wold like to get to my heals at the same time I buff.  Many times we are buffing in battle and have to heal as well.  

 

What gives immune?  And what makes some mobs immune?

 

What is wand piercing?  I have not seen it do anything but not sure what it is to check for.

 

Charm does not effect Valkyrie or angelic chant.

 

We did a dungeon and the heal global cooldown are ok but tough.  We will really have to get used to that. I would really like to do a CD to try it if we can.

 

Thanks, will have more questions/feedback later.

 

[Bendersmom]

An observation - mspd of cleric is so slow.  Even with mspd buff we are slow.  Being as squishy as we are I would hope we could be a bit faster.  Sometimes I can't get to someone to heal them and a lot of times I can't get away from the mobs fast enough.  I know I can use mspd gear but that doesn't make much sense if you want your int or def to say up.  A few war clerics are very good using all mspd gear but that is for max level.  For lower levels the cleric really needs to try to survive to help.  And running to help or running away is the best option.

 

I know you can use sleep, stun, etc on mobs but often you are so busy healing your party and then getting mobbed that it is hard to stop and stun or sleep the monster.  It is better to run back some until your party can kill them.  I'm not suggesting mspd to match raiders, I am asking about a bit of an increase to base or have int give a bit more. Or a passive maybe.  Or is there one and I missed it?

[Bendersmom]

Is there any chance we could combine a few buffs again?  Maybe HP/MP and mdef/def?  Or did u want us to use our sp there instead of other places?  12 buffs is a lot to have to use in battle and during fighting.  (not to mention the room on my skill bars - yeah I know I am a broken record).

 

Also, I am not sure that increasing the buffs to 60 min. is really worth buying the IM buffs.  We won't have all the buffs with the IM buffs so some will still be 30 min.  Plus during battles no one will last 60 min anyway to take advantage of them.  All those IM buffs cost a good deal of real money and now it seems like a bit of a waste.  A number of us got them just because it was the only way to have party buffs, not to save skill points.  I think that either they should give some advantage to keep them or give us all the new party buffs as IM buffs too.  Or have the opportunity to turn them in for something like charm/int jewelry or charm/int face item and off hand.  I know that will put a load on CS answering tickets on a trade, but it could be fairly simple.

 

Anyone else?  Your feelings on the IM buffs?  

 

 

 

[kwayan19]

how about making IM buffs a bit stronger or casting requires less MP

[rodolfocm]

Is there any chance we could combine a few buffs again?  Maybe HP/MP and mdef/def?  Or did u want us to use our sp there instead of other places?  12 buffs is a lot to have to use in battle and during fighting.  (not to mention the room on my skill bars - yeah I know I am a broken record).

 

Also, I am not sure that increasing the buffs to 60 min. is really worth buying the IM buffs.  We won't have all the buffs with the IM buffs so some will still be 30 min.  Plus during battles no one will last 60 min anyway to take advantage of them.  All those IM buffs cost a good deal of real money and now it seems like a bit of a waste.  A number of us got them just because it was the only way to have party buffs, not to save skill points.  I think that either they should give some advantage to keep them or give us all the new party buffs as IM buffs too.  Or have the opportunity to turn them in for something like charm/int jewelry or charm/int face item and off hand.  I know that will put a load on CS answering tickets on a trade, but it could be fairly simple.

 

Anyone else?  Your feelings on the IM buffs?  

I tottally agree on combining the buffs. There's too many buttons to press right now.

[Nifa]

Is there any chance we could combine a few buffs again?  Maybe HP/MP and mdef/def?  Or did u want us to use our sp there instead of other places?  12 buffs is a lot to have to use in battle and during fighting.  (not to mention the room on my skill bars - yeah I know I am a broken record).

 

Also, I am not sure that increasing the buffs to 60 min. is really worth buying the IM buffs.  We won't have all the buffs with the IM buffs so some will still be 30 min.  Plus during battles no one will last 60 min anyway to take advantage of them.  All those IM buffs cost a good deal of real money and now it seems like a bit of a waste.  A number of us got them just because it was the only way to have party buffs, not to save skill points.  I think that either they should give some advantage to keep them or give us all the new party buffs as IM buffs too.  Or have the opportunity to turn them in for something like charm/int jewelry or charm/int face item and off hand.  I know that will put a load on CS answering tickets on a trade, but it could be fairly simple.

 

Anyone else?  Your feelings on the IM buffs?  

I agree with all of this, though I do have to say that I got IM buffs both because of party buffs and because it freed up a lot of sp. Going battle cleric and skipping out on buffs, I think when maxed, I'll barely have enough sp for any of the mp/int passives, if at all. Haven't calculated it yet but it feels like a tight fit for getting ap/dmg skills and heals. Combining buffs would be nice again, for sp saving, as well as because our hotkey bars are really not going to be enough. I haven't seen the other classes, so I don't know if they are also in a similar predicament of having too many necessary skills for the bars.

 

Voltage Storm does not work as an AOE. Sometimes it will aggro multiple monsters and stun/dmg a single monster, but more often than not, it acts exactly as the single target stuns.

 

Does Sleep Cloud have 100% accuracy in a 10m radius? It's missing half the mobs when I'm standing right next to them.

 

Soul Revive's description does not have a Cooldown time.

 

I do not like that you have to max a previous heal before having access to the next one. Of course some heals should be maxed before having access to the next heals, but not pretty much all of them. We'll have even less sp for other skills if we want to get every single heal, or even just multiple party heals. I'd rather have the option of spreading my sp out a bit more, perhaps having a large quantity of unmaxed heals. (Example on live server: get lvl 5 Cure, lvl 1 Restoration, lvl 4 Recovery, lvl 1 Party Heal, lvl 1 Soul Revive) and Thoughts?

[Bendersmom]

Since we can't do CD atm I have not been able to test how heals and the global cooldown will work yet.  When we were getting our asses kicked in Ulverick Cave there were a few times that I could not heal everyone with 7 heals going but in general it was ok.  But I needed 7 heals, even though some were weak.  I know they don't want us spamming or stacking skills and that is why we have the global cooldown but clerics will supposedly not be buffing constantly (30 or 60 min buffs) so a full support clerics worth in battle will mostly be heals.  It is a lot of SP but if we need to rely on all of the heals it is worth the sp I guess. Still would like to try in a CD.

[DoubleRose]

It seems like too many heals to keep track of/fit

seems like clerics are just healers

getting to double the duration of buffs isn't that great. i feel like i wasted real money on those.  i don't think they should be changed to something that is a massive unfair advantage to paying players, but they feel like a scam now

[GilGrissom]

I tested a war cleric in TG and it is doing well. Also I had to get used to that many healing skills, but with the cooldowns you really need them. Until now I noticed that the war cleric can survive with having all healing/buff skills and block/def passives. Even I could out heal, by using sleep and mana shield, the situation that 2 people with boosters were attacking me. Not bad I think.

 

About the IM buffs, keep them in game and make them a bit stronger then the current party buffs. You still need all sp, but they give an extra boost.

[DestinyDeoxys]

About the IM buffs, keep them in game and make them a bit stronger then the current party buffs. You still need all sp, but they give an extra boost.

 

No, that's just pay to win.

Keep the in-game party buffs 10mins and let the Item mall party buffs 30mins. So there is still incentive to buy these advance buffs while the player who have bought them will not feel betrayed.

[Bendersmom]

I agree with Destiny. At this point there really isn't a reason to get IM buffs for new players.  30 min is a long time.  Looking to the future you will still want people to buy them.  Or go 15 and 30 min. 

 

Are buffs taking everyone else a long time to buff up?  The buffs take awhile to go for me and there are so many buffs.  this will get the clerics killed in battles and CD.  On Leonis as soon as I click on the buffs they go, on Pegasus they take a few sec to go.

[Nifa]

I think the reason buffs and everything else feels slow is because the cooldown doesn't actually start until the skill takes effect. Er, so like, I was watching myself buff and the cooldown, and I would start moving before the cooldown started (the pre-skill phase?) and then the cooldown will start. So it might just be that the pre-skill phase is way too slow on pegasus. Buffs are faster than the other skills for me. I was timing things, and skills on draco feel like they take 1 beat at 113 BPM while they take 1 beat at 124-130 BPM....I haven't calculated how long that is in seconds....BPM = beat per minute (using my metronome)

[Genesis]

A skill won't be cast until you are actually in range of the target.  If you are already in range, the cooldown starts immediately, otherwise you will start running towards the target, then once you are within range (either skill range or weapon range, whichever is met first) the cooldown will start.

[GilGrissom]

@slowbob
You got prob max charm and can answer this question. What is the difference in %, between max cha buffs and boosters.
I sure want to know, because it seems like that full cha maybe is better than boosters.
Because that would bring some new light on how to use IM buffs.


If clerics have so many buffs than 10 min is a bit short. You have to change constant between bars. Maybe 20 min is a good average.

@Destiny
Prob you are right that if IM buffs becomes stronger that it would become pay to win. That is why I am curious what the diff is between full cha and boosters.

Edited by GilGrissom, 07 July 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[koqoK]

@slowbob
You got prob max charm and can answer this question. What is the difference in %, between max cha buffs and boosters.
I sure want to know, because it seems like that full cha maybe is better than boosters.
Because that would bring some new light on how to use IM buffs.

 

He got stronger buffs than boosters except accu/dodge ,others are better than boosters and he is only 200 when he gets 230 he will get probably better accu and dodge than boosters

[Logi]

I know these concerns dont really matter but a few things:

 

The summon earth elemental has really hard to see eyes, I think it would look cooler with more defined eyes as I got a headless horseman feel, well with a tree growing from his neck lol, the summon among other things also says: "I hate water but I love ice its fun to melt it", this is obviously from the fire elemental and earth doesnt melt ice, make the earth summon change it a bit ? ( I know it doesnt matter but it should be easy to change right xD ?) Something like, "I hate fire but I love water, its fun to absorb it" xD.

 

The dragons look very cool, the ice dragon looks really mean!

[Leonis]

heavenly grace isnt working also party integrity has stronger healing power compared to heavenly grace

can you decrease the number of heal skills~ they're too many

Heavenly Grace not working was due to it relying on needing your target being a Party member. It has been changed to apply to all allies.

Heavenly Grace is a different style of heal skill, where you are able to target a party member and heal around them, instead of around you.

For that reason, the healing effect of Healing Grace is not as strong.

What would you have me replace them with then? There were more plans to the heal skills than what's currently available, aside from that, they are essentially the same heal skills as on the current version the live server is running. The major difference being that there are both party and single target versions now, which was an intended update.

It was my intention to turn one of the healing skills in to a Heal over Time skill, however the mechanic to do so was not ready, so a straight healing skill was kept for the time being.
 

Ok, I tried playing in Enter mode so I could use my number keys to help with the lack of skill bar room, but for someone who talks as much as i do.....yeah no good. Leo, we have way too many heals and buffs. On my #1 bar are 7heals, red pot, blue pot, sleep, voltage stun, mute. On my #2 bar are 12 buffs, and on my alt bar are mana flame, salamander flame, puri, revive, mystic eye, mana shield, mount and some food. i have spots on that bar but i really wold like to get to my heals at the same time I buff. Many times we are buffing in battle and have to heal as well.

Not having enough hotkey spots is not really an issue of the skill update being poor, but now we need to expand on the ability for players to have shortcuts to skills and items they want to have on hand!
 

What gives immune? And what makes some mobs immune?

It is a situational event where damage being dealt was negated. It was intended that this would be during when a monster is returning to their spawn location, however I have seen it occur rarely as well.
 

What is wand piercing? I have not seen it do anything but not sure what it is to check for.

It pierces magic defense of your target. As a wand user, you naturally attack with magic damage, which would apply against magic defense. So your wand and magic skills would penetrate through some of the magic defenses of any target you attack.
 

Charm does not effect Valkyrie or angelic chant.

Angelic Chant, yes it does. Valkyrie Charm, no it doesn't. Because there is no direct value to Valkyrie Charm, it is strictly percentage based in what it does.
 

We did a dungeon and the heal global cooldown are ok but tough. We will really have to get used to that. I would really like to do a CD to try it if we can.

Thanks, will have more questions/feedback later.

Hearing that it's tough is something I was hoping to hear. The heals have cooldowns on them that make it hard enough, the momentary pause between casting, should give you consideration to the situation in when and what is available to cast to support your team.
 

An observation - mspd of cleric is so slow. Even with mspd buff we are slow. Being as squishy as we are I would hope we could be a bit faster. Sometimes I can't get to someone to heal them and a lot of times I can't get away from the mobs fast enough. I know I can use mspd gear but that doesn't make much sense if you want your int or def to say up. A few war clerics are very good using all mspd gear but that is for max level. For lower levels the cleric really needs to try to survive to help. And running to help or running away is the best option.

I know you can use sleep, stun, etc on mobs but often you are so busy healing your party and then getting mobbed that it is hard to stop and stun or sleep the monster. It is better to run back some until your party can kill them. I'm not suggesting mspd to match raiders, I am asking about a bit of an increase to base or have int give a bit more. Or a passive maybe. Or is there one and I missed it?

I'm not accepting "can't get to them" as an excuse anymore, because the range was increase to all spells, healing included. If they are going well outside of your range, then that player failed the basic concept of working as a team. If you wish to increase your speed you will need to look in to supplementing means, such as gear or buffs, in order to obtain it.

Running away from mobs, you shouldn't be standing toe to toe with them anyhow and if you do see them coming, you should consider running and keeping your advantage of range on your target. Additionally, you have a control skill as a muse and a larger one as a Cleric to facilitate your escape if you face the horrors of combat as a vulnerable support Cleric. So if you want that movement speed, you will need to sacrifice that int or defense. That's your challenge now. You cannot have it all ways. If you think running away is your best option, gear for it.

Your survival as a support role is paramount to your party, so if you can't stop to sleep, stun, etc. or your party is not paying attention to protect their support member, again, they failed the concept of what it means to be in a party and to play with one another and I'm not going to facilitate the ease of escape just so others can be lazy by not keeping consideration over surroundings.

Tips:

• 
  
• If your party member is running outside your range, teach them your range of support.
• If you are letting yourself get in to combat unintentionally, your party needs to learn the importance of protecting their healer.

Is there any chance we could combine a few buffs again? Maybe HP/MP and mdef/def? Or did u want us to use our sp there instead of other places? 12 buffs is a lot to have to use in battle and during fighting. (not to mention the room on my skill bars - yeah I know I am a broken record).

You're fine to repeat yourself, it just helps drive the point across. However, combining the buffs in the class tree, no, it is intentional to put the SP cost in to learning the buffs as they are. However, give it time, you will see something you may like for the future that will help address exactly what you are bringing up here. And no, I'm not going to make anyone pay for it.
 

Also, I am not sure that increasing the buffs to 60 min. is really worth buying the IM buffs. We won't have all the buffs with the IM buffs so some will still be 30 min. Plus during battles no one will last 60 min anyway to take advantage of them. All those IM buffs cost a good deal of real money and now it seems like a bit of a waste. A number of us got them just because it was the only way to have party buffs, not to save skill points. I think that either they should give some advantage to keep them or give us all the new party buffs as IM buffs too. Or have the opportunity to turn them in for something like charm/int jewelry or charm/int face item and off hand. I know that will put a load on CS answering tickets on a trade, but it could be fairly simple.

Anyone else? Your feelings on the IM buffs?

"During battles" is not what I am concerned about when it comes to the Item Mall, so that's not a concern of mine. I have not been pleased with the mentality I've been seeing where you have to pay to win. I just don't like it. I would much more prefer to see that the Item Mall is a means to help shortcut and boost normal game play without the feeling that it is somehow mandatory in order to just play. Yes, I want it to feel beneficial, no I do not want it to overrule players who have invested a lot of time and effort to achieve their point in play.

I've been putting it to consideration on what to do in regards to those who may have learned the Item Mall Advanced Party buffs and at minimum, I'm willing to provide a means in-game for them to be refunded with the in-game Premium Points to use the the Premium Shop at their discretion. This will be handled in-game, so there will be no need to write in a ticket in order to have it refunded that way as well as they wouldn't refund it because the skills have been of beneficial use up until this update and the idea of figuring out how to 'delevel' you from what you benefited this whole time of its use, is absurd.

What I will not do, is provide an additional advantage that can be gained from them, because up until this update is implemented, they have been nothing but an unintentional benefit over all other classes, in that they have the best of the support tree without having to actually invest any skill points in to it for a long time now.

[Leonis]

how about making IM buffs a bit stronger or casting requires less MP

I will not do this, because I do not want the issue of the Item Mall being forced upon players during normal combat and game play.
 

Voltage Storm does not work as an AOE. Sometimes it will aggro multiple monsters and stun/dmg a single monster, but more often than not, it acts exactly as the single target stuns.

Keep in mind the AoE range is only 7m, so it is possible some monsters are stepping out side of your range.
 

Does Sleep Cloud have 100% accuracy in a 10m radius? It's missing half the mobs when I'm standing right next to them.

It should not miss. I'll have it looked in to.
 

Soul Revive's description does not have a Cooldown time.

I'll have it looked in to, thank you.
 

I do not like that you have to max a previous heal before having access to the next one. Of course some heals should be maxed before having access to the next heals, but not pretty much all of them. We'll have even less sp for other skills if we want to get every single heal, or even just multiple party heals. I'd rather have the option of spreading my sp out a bit more, perhaps having a large quantity of unmaxed heals. (Example on live server: get lvl 5 Cure, lvl 1 Restoration, lvl 4 Recovery, lvl 1 Party Heal, lvl 1 Soul Revive) and Thoughts?

There are probably some adjustments that can be made, however it was a fair standard that any active skill that requires another active skill as a progression skill to learn, would require the previous mastered. But there are some conditions I can see to make an exception as the skill tree for healing is a little unique in its application, however progression will remain as it currently is in the sense that the stronger version will require the previous teir to be mastered. So you will still need to learn many skills in order to get to the higher tier heal skills. But the party versions will be learn-able along the way.

The changes will be applied to the next patch.

Since we can't do CD atm I have not been able to test how heals and the global cooldown will work yet. When we were getting our asses kicked in Ulverick Cave there were a few times that I could not heal everyone with 7 heals going but in general it was ok. But I needed 7 heals, even though some were weak. I know they don't want us spamming or stacking skills and that is why we have the global cooldown but clerics will supposedly not be buffing constantly (30 or 60 min buffs) so a full support clerics worth in battle will mostly be heals. It is a lot of SP but if we need to rely on all of the heals it is worth the sp I guess. Still would like to try in a CD.

Hearing this, I'm going to bump up the Heal Power skill 10% and see if it helps ease a bit of the stress of healing.
 

It seems like too many heals to keep track of/fit
seems like clerics are just healers
getting to double the duration of buffs isn't that great. i feel like i wasted real money on those. i don't think they should be changed to something that is a massive unfair advantage to paying players, but they feel like a scam now

What was unfair is that they were implemented without thorough testing to discover you could get 'free skill points' when resetting. This should never have been allowed because it was never part of the intention behind the Item Mall to provide that kind of game play enhancement.
 

About the IM buffs, keep them in game and make them a bit stronger then the current party buffs. You still need all sp, but they give an extra boost.

I do not want to provide Item Mall purchases that directly influence PvP combat situations. I truly do not wish for this, which goes along with the fact that we have gone through considerable effort to disable any and all Item Mall influencial items within the PvP Game Arenas.


DestinyDeoxys & Bendersmom, do you feel that if the Class buffs were reduces to 15 minutes and the Advanced Versions were 30 minutes, that would feel better?

Logi, thank you for those detailed obvservasions. Though yes, they don't affect game play, I certainly do love some lore continuity and will want to fix those issues. Thank you~

[Mystiqueforce]

I will not do this, because I do not want the issue of the Item Mall being forced upon players during normal combat and game play.
I do not want to provide Item Mall purchases that directly influence PvP combat situations

is this goodbye boosters and beans?

 

 

if class buffs lasts for 15 minutes~~ it'll feel like a "self buff"

Edited by Mystiqueforce, 08 July 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[Nifa]

 I've tried it while standing next to the monsters (in the mastyx and scorpion spots in wasteland ruins path right outside the Gates). It has never damaged more than one monster, though it has stunned maybe two or three monsters one or two times.

 

[Leonis]

is this goodbye boosters and beans?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, those items shouldn't be usable in the Game Arenas PvP matches as it is.

I've tried it while standing next to the monsters (in the mastyx and scorpion spots in wasteland ruins path right outside the Gates). It has never damaged more than one monster, though it has stunned maybe two or three monsters one or two times.

So, I just confirmed that the issue with Voltage Jolt is not that it doesn't do the stun effect, that's working fine and the range is good too. The 30% chance is what's not making anything stun and it might just be bad luck. However, the damage IS being applied to the monsters in range, however the 'hit effect' isn't showing, which makes them not look like they take damage. This should get fixed next patch, but give it a try and let me know to be sure.

[DestinyDeoxys]

DestinyDeoxys & Bendersmom, do you feel that if the Class buffs were reduces to 15 minutes and the Advanced Versions were 30 minutes, that would feel better?

 

 

10 mins in-game buff is already enough for everything, but if you say 15 mins in-game and 30 mins for advanced version, sure lol. But I just want to make sure your advanced buffs are demanding, because I really think 15 mins is not the number that will induce people to pay for advance version.

And to be honest, PvP might become a debuff-fest, since mage have fierce cudgeling [Dispell: 2 buffs] @ 100% with 2 sec cool down and knight have shield jab [Dispell: 1buff] @ 100% with 3.5 sec cool down. People rush into mage/knights and will retreat to their lovely clerics and buff plz

[Bendersmom]

I would rather other reasons to get IM party buffs like I stated in the other post then just time.  I don't feel the IM buffs are worth the cost if it just adds 15 min to them.  In leveling or farming it really doesn't matter if you are buffing every 15 or 30 min.  It isn't much of an issue.  I guess for those people that fun into town and ask for buffs it would be nice but for the cleric themselves it isn't that important.  Once your buff bar is set up buffing is easy, with 12 buffs it does take some time and MP but most clerics are building with MP saving passives so no big deal.  

 

And if you are max level and in GA or dungeons or wars in TG any more than about 5 min buffs wouldn't matter.  I don't think many survive for the whole GA game.  I rarely have to rebuff buffs that are running out in CD or AA.  In dungeons I do sometimes, but we just stop in a safe spot and rebuff.  So time to me is not a big driving factor.  Hell, if we don't have to rebuff sometimes then other people will not know how valuable we are.  And with things set up as they are in the new skill update I think we will all do a lot better playing as a team/party/group and helping each other more so then on the live server.  So I want the other members to remember I am doing something important for them so that they help protect me.  

[Leonis]

We'll give it a try and see how it feels.

15 minute buffs and we can continue talking about what we can do about the IM versions.