83 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

It cannot scatter a mob it 1 shots.

 

Also re: cornus: yeah, they are rough on anyone with a short-range physical AoE. Even Wanderer's reverberation gets reflected.

[kasshin]

Most OB doesn't one shot in their level range. Even at nogg if the first or second hit don't register, you need a 2nd OB to finish it off.

With shield spell level 1, OB definitely has better one shotting potential. But usually by then the RG is in 126-150 level range and can't one shot the higher hp monsters anyway.

But yeah, if I play RG in ET I OB all the time because of all the lower hp mobs that I one shot.

Also, if an RG is one shotting things, they really ought to be soloing and not partying anyway.

[azumak1]

Yep, the Shield Reflect is definitely a pain, but what I did was start off with a Fire Converter and OB the mob. The Nagas die easily, and Cornus takes only 25% damage. Then use a Cursed Water and use Vanishing Point to pewpew the Cornus in no time, they will one-shot with Rosa Shield + SS1 +130ATK buff and Hunting Spear, of course AS+EA is best for VP. I also strongly recommend any battle RGs to carry all 4 elemental converters, Cursed Water, and a Long Horn (Holy spear from Cornus, actually, lol.) at all times. Elemental dmg is critical for VP.

 

Yeah, I don't see why not fit Sacrifice in... if you get Inspiration, Sacrifice is available due to its pre-reqs. My most 'pure' battle RG build yet still has Sac 2, DA 5, Reflect 9 and Guard 5. Although I must disagree with your WPH+Alarm bias, kasshin. :]  I would be stacking Perfect Dodge+certain autocast gear (a couple Heal triggers, and Hodrem card for P.Dodge proc) and most likely a Filir Hat for reflecting (can't rely on the skill with autocasts going off)... Then for consumables I'd go up to 89% with ranked Slims, Anodynes (my ghetto Eddga shoes! and can ALWAYS be used to cast Endure), and the usual stuff, Holy Water for Piety if available, etc...  Basically holding a crapload of pumpkins isn't an option on my RG, I have too many other things I need, lol. xD

[spartaque]

Just started swordman, cause like to play pally most of all, but after reading i've lost in thougt... Its really impossible to exp RG solo and he's so bad in pvp?

[azumak1]

See, threads like this are detrimental to new/returning players...

 

NO, it is NOT impossible to level Royal Guard by yourself... it is one of THE MOST solo-able classes in the game, the vast majority of time I spent in Nogg2, Bio2, Juperos, soloing Turn-In quests and doing ET runs... and I never had to ask for help, or rely on anyone to kill, but I always invited friends along to loot/watch~

 

RG is excellent in PVP, well-rounded and resilient. I went to PVP a few nights back with nothing but +7 gears and went over half an hour killing several different people and classes before I got booted.

 

I think I can sum up my thoughts on the Swordy class as ... it's easy to play, but difficult to play WELL. Swordies often get the stigma of 'oh they're just dumb turkey-riding tanks that anyone can play' ... while that CAN be true, a skilled RG/RK with years of experience will have a hard time fitting all their consumables/skills/gear switches into 36 hotkeys. It takes diligence to play the class as best as possible, and innovation in desperate situations.

[spartaque]

azumak1,

 thnx for info. Then I'll continue play swordie as planned

[killedbytofu]

See, threads like this are detrimental to new/returning players...

 

NO, it is NOT impossible to level Royal Guard by yourself... it is one of THE MOST solo-able classes in the game, the vast majority of time I spent in Nogg2, Bio2, Juperos, soloing Turn-In quests and doing ET runs... and I never had to ask for help, or rely on anyone to kill, but I always invited friends along to loot/watch~

 

RG is excellent in PVP, well-rounded and resilient. I went to PVP a few nights back with nothing but +7 gears and went over half an hour killing several different people and classes before I got booted.

 

 

you seem to have added a bunch of words that i never posted. i never once said that rgs wernt soloable and i never once said that they couldnt pvp. what i specifically said was that i didnt have enough job levels to get overbrand, which was making leveling AT MY LEVEL impossible because i was too high for single target killing. I had accidentally leveled out of the 99 bracket so i could no longer milk job levels off the board (i had forgotten that EXP accumulates when youre 99, so when i job changed i was instantly 102 ><). I was forced to pretty much tank or leech ti parties (which noone was letting me into), and was being subjected to elitist classism that so plagues the -_- out of the RG class. Even now, i see RGs sitting at the entrance of mid ti for long periods of time trying to find parties because everyone already has a sura tank and only wants rangers or abs (i even saw one guy throw a rage fit the other day because noone would let him in their party after an hour of sitting there). People fail to realize the value of having a RG in your party which is truly sad because they are a pretty awesome class. When i originally posted this i was furious because i had spent a solid week sitting in mid ti trying to get a party and noone would let me into their group (never once got to complete my TI btw). Over and over i kept hearing 'we already have a tank' or 'we just need a ranger/ab'. How is one supposed to acquire the job levels to get their leveling spell if they cant even get job lvls to begin with? No way in hell i was gonna subject myself to poking 1 target at a time with a tank build for 15 job levels. Getting job levels after third job change takes an insanely long time as is with a party. i cant even imagine trying to single target kill your way to 15 job levels

 

I still support RGs though despite my rage blow off. They have pvp specific spells that give them a strong leg in pvp, they have decent enough tank spells combined with high hp to handle midlevel mvps (and even solo them with vanishing point), and they make a great party support with their AOE buff and sac spell. Its just a shame that the community has become the way it has.

 

My suggestions to anyone planning on making an rg is to either build your character for soloability, or have a friend/guildy to level with and help you get over the hurdle part of job change. it gets much easier

[kasshin]

You can easily just do all the eden board quests, do maybe one mid TI or one low TI, and BM it all together. Ignition Break's ~25 job levels is another story...

 

If you build a reputation for yourself as a good tank, people will let you into parties. Suras are slow as hell and a good pumpkin RG is much better for fast moving parties. Defending Aura makes venatu / other ranged mobs tickle too and can be switched on and off instantly. Suras are only ever needed if the person isn't geared (no witch hat, no reduction gears), or for hard mobs like thor and bio 3.

 

Just using sacrifice in a party is great as well. It's important to let the party leader know you have sacrifice, as I'm pretty sure this will win you +++points with the leader instantly.

[azumak1]

Well, my path to RG was a bit odd. My Paladin was my main for over 2 years pre-Renewal, I did things like pull/tank/sac in Abyss Lake3, Bios3, Thanatos Tower, etc.. but also had Rapid Smiting and Grand Cross to do lots of MVPing even after they got a huge skill buff update.  I left him at 96 when I took a break from 09 until the beginning of this year... Coming back just after a tri-server merge with gear and a build from 2009 was not easy, but I made it work. I took my +10 quad Saharic Mace and a Rafflesia Stone Buckler and after going to the old Anolians Comodo map (now Alligators, lul) I went to Glast Heim Anolians. I brought my Scholar (had to Sacrifice her most of the way) and plunked her at the entrance for wind endow and did one-shot Rapid Smites to 99.  I then turned RG and noticed I would need job 13-14 before I would have a decent Overbrand.. so I went back to Anolians! I finally gathered up enough zeny for my Imperial Spear so I maxed VP first so I could one-shot Anolians quicker, lol. Of course, I went to Nogg2 shortly after getting OB3/4, as the Juno Spotlight had just started.  Looking back on that now, lol yes my path would be very different, peppered with signboard and TI-stacking, and all that fun stuff. 

 

Pretty much whenever someone is asking me about RG/Sader/Pally builds I always recommend plenty of cheap solo-able options instead of going full support and no killing skills/stats. The biggest reason is, getting Sacrifice 2 or 3 is already available to anyone getting Inspiration later on, and isn't too hard to get anyway. A typical Sacrificing scenario in TI doesn't need 99 vit/agi, DA5 Guard10, etc.. just a couple Sacrifice lines to key players will do. A lot of RGs will just Overbrand and spread the mob out, which annoys people.  A much better way to help as full battle RG would be getting/making 4x status-inflicting carded Pikes and using Cannon Spear (even lvl 1) on the mob to mass Silence, or Curse, or w/e. Actually, this gives me an idea, I think I'll be able to inflict status from my carded weapon through gear/skill damage Reflection.... hue hue.

 

But I never recommend going full support unless one has a large, active guild to always party with.  Chances are pretty good that if you're in a guild worth Sacrificing for, they'll help you as a battle RG and pay for your full reset to support build at 150, lol.

[ShinobiEX3]

[MizunoAoi]

If I built an RG it could probably solo mid TI.

 

That, too.

 

Even a Supernovice gets mid TI if they organize the party and use gwings.

Even a Supernovice gets mid TI if they organize the party and spend money.  Which really shouldn't have to happen when some classes get free rides.

I, really can't say much, really.  I have a baby RK for fun, that, due to being a baby, makes Dragon Breath out of the question so she Hundred Spears everything.  I have a RG that I play with friends so no issue there, in regards to this thread.

[ShinobiEX3]

RK was dropped from topic and became RG stream how convenient

[tachyu]

Bringing back RK to the topic then

I had a AGI/LUK swordie a looooooooong time ago, and I was looking forward to make one once again.

My question, after reading all this and discussing with some people is, how viable is it at higher levels?

I'm asking this because I only see requests for either Healers/Support or AOE classes at all the high level places.

Are there any place for a AGI/LUK base RK at those higher levels?

Since I only see bots on the normal maps, am I bound to level alone because the lack for AOE damage for the TI parties and such?

Thanks.

 

Btw, good to be back on RO

I found the game still has a nice community

[kasshin]

Don't make AGI/LUK. Go for the standard DB build, but you can mix in some STR for leveling skills like Bowling Bash or Ignition Break. Something along the lines of 1 STR (pure DB) or 90 STR, 90-100 VIT, ~70 INT, ~70 DEX for leveling purposes. You can reset to a more specialized build for endgame purposes.

 

For TIs, you should focus on being a good tank. Go for 90-100 VIT, get a witch pumpkin hat and alarm mask combo, an immune garment and a set of racial reduction shields, and just spam pumpkins to tank for the party. You don't even have to AOE at all and can just rely on the rangers to kill things. Just being a good tank is all people expect of you.

[tachyu]

Thanks for the fast reply

Mind you that I'm extremely new to these new classes and the new RO, so I apologize if I say any nonsense here.

What I'm seeing is that there's no other viable option to have at higher levels either than DB or the IB/BB one.

Are there any high level content that would require a AGI/LUK build?

Do they don't give enough dps output to be considered into a party, or it's just the lack of AOE?

I don't know what's the high level content these days, but from what I've been reading, it's all about a Tank, Healer and AOE dpsers, and it seems Suras can tank pretty good with the Mental Strength, right?

From what I can understand it's either AOE or Tank build, unless you're doing it just for the fun of it.

I'm just trying to find a way to convince myself that I'll have some fun at higher levels with one

Thanks once again

 

Edited for typos

Edited by tachyu, 24 September 2013 - 01:59 AM.

[kasshin]

Any actual real forms of "leveling" beyond level 90 pretty much REQUIRES you to AOE. It will be way too slow to level at the higher levels if you are not AOEing. In fact, you should even be AOE leveling at the lower levels if you can for maximum efficiency.

 

AGI / LUK build implies a CRIT auto attacking build, which just does not measure up to builds using skills / spamming skills, which offers much higher damage per attack. Frankly, it's all about the skills, and the few auto attack boosting skills RKs have just are not adequate. This would just include skills like Enchant Blade, Aura Blade (LK skill), Frenzy (Knight skill), and Two Hand Quicken (Knight skill). These are just not comparable to using damage skills such as Dragon Breath, Ignition Break, and Hundred Spears.

 

However, AGI / LUK builds are good for classes such as GX and Ranger, because they have skills that contribute to this. GX can use EDP to improve their regular / CRIT attacks by a LOT. Rangers have auto Warg procs, and at times Fear Breeze, which contribute a lot to the damage.

 

AGI is not a sufficient defense stat either. When you are being attacked by anything like three or more monsters, your flee value drops to nearly nothing and is useless. VIT contributes to your max HP pool and also gives you stun immunity at 100 VIT.

 

Suras are very good tanks with mental strength and they take so little damage that they don't even need to pot (much). However, mental strength makes them walk really slow. RKs or RGs who rely on natural gear reductions, high HP pool, and mobbing skills like Endure or Spear Dynamo, can move at their regular speed, along with the boosted mounted speed, and can just spam pumpkins using the Witch Pumpkin Hat + Alarm Mask combo to outpot any damage monsters cause. This is really adequate for most of the turn ins, except for Bio 3/4 and maybe Thor 3 mobs. Also, Suras can't cast any skills while in MS, whereas RKs / RGs can still use their regular skills to help AOE (sometimes mobs just need a couple thousand more damage to kill).

 

Endgame is kind of different, whether you be focusing on PVP / WoE or MVP, focusing on AOE damage, focusing on single target DPS, and so on. You can just get a feel for the game PVM wise first before you decide on anything endgame related.

[ShinobiEX3]

Any actual real forms of "leveling" beyond level 90 pretty much REQUIRES you to AOE. It will be way too slow to level at the higher levels if you are not AOEing. In fact, you should even be AOE leveling at the lower levels if you can for maximum efficiency.

 

AGI / LUK build implies a CRIT auto attacking build, which just does not measure up to builds using skills / spamming skills, which offers much higher damage per attack. Frankly, it's all about the skills, and the few auto attack boosting skills RKs have just are not adequate. This would just include skills like Enchant Blade, Aura Blade (LK skill), Frenzy (Knight skill), and Two Hand Quicken (Knight skill). These are just not comparable to using damage skills such as Dragon Breath, Ignition Break, and Hundred Spears.

 

However, AGI / LUK builds are good for classes such as GX and Ranger, because they have skills that contribute to this. GX can use EDP to improve their regular / CRIT attacks by a LOT. Rangers have auto Warg procs, and at times Fear Breeze, which contribute a lot to the damage.

 

AGI is not a sufficient defense stat either. When you are being attacked by anything like three or more monsters, your flee value drops to nearly nothing and is useless. VIT contributes to your max HP pool and also gives you stun immunity at 100 VIT.

 

Suras are very good tanks with mental strength and they take so little damage that they don't even need to pot (much). However, mental strength makes them walk really slow. RKs or RGs who rely on natural gear reductions, high HP pool, and mobbing skills like Endure or Spear Dynamo, can move at their regular speed, along with the boosted mounted speed, and can just spam pumpkins using the Witch Pumpkin Hat + Alarm Mask combo to outpot any damage monsters cause. This is really adequate for most of the turn ins, except for Bio 3/4 and maybe Thor 3 mobs. Also, Suras can't cast any skills while in MS, whereas RKs / RGs can still use their regular skills to help AOE (sometimes mobs just need a couple thousand more damage to kill).

 

Endgame is kind of different, whether you be focusing on PVP / WoE or MVP, focusing on AOE damage, focusing on single target DPS, and so on. You can just get a feel for the game PVM wise first before you decide on anything endgame related.

 

your explanation is great and all but i still get parties as a hybrid i dont need to main gb ib or db hs for a bloody party. agi/crit is still viable to play if u love to play that way. cookie cutter builds i tend to stay away from since to me it feels to boring to play.

 

[kasshin]

your explanation is great and all but i still get parties as a hybrid i dont need to main gb ib or db hs for a bloody party. agi/crit is still viable to play if u love to play that way. cookie cutter builds i tend to stay away from since to me it feels to boring to play.

 

 

AGI / CRIT is through and through an inferior build. You won't kill single targets for leveling so most "sword builds" go with IB anyway so you can't even classify them as a true CRIT build. And AGI and LUK are the worst statistics for IB anyway so you would get those last.

 

Some people use AGI / CRIT for endgame MVPing for MVPs that AGI up or have high natural flee. However, Dragon Breath also never misses, and it's better to use DB in most of the situations already out of the MVPs that agi-up or have high flee. Then, out of the MVPs that are fire immune or resistant, which aren't many already, there's perhaps Samurai Specter, who you really shouldn't be using an RK to solo kill anyway due to the insane amount of supplies you would need (ygg berries and seeds). There's Ifrit, which is a lost cause for an RK to kill from the start...

 

The party thing isn't even a valid "argument" as even GXes and super novices can get parties. The point is how much you can contribute to it. If you are just ctrl-clicking things one at a time when a Ranger can already one shot a BUNCH of them at once, you really aren't contributing to be honest. If I were recruiting for a party, I would always take a mounted RK before an unmounted RK who looks like a frail AGI type build who can't contribute to the party.

 

Really there is a reason "cookie cutter" builds exist and they really do focus on the skills or strengths of a particular class. To be unique, it's all about tweaking your build to be the most efficient for different situations. Really, just leave the AGI / CRIT to GXes and Rangers who have the benefit of EDP and auto-warg.

[Zoltor]

Can someone explain to me, what the OP means? Because even if many of the RK skills require almost lv cap, special gears, ect to get the most out of, RKs still have access to the Kight, and LK skills, which are among the best in the game, so I'm confused on what the hell the OP is complaining about?

 

RK gives what the char really requires, access to better equips, and more stats. Not to mention the RK's support skills are awesome as well. 

 

 

Edit: Oh the OP is a agi/crit build, well that  explains things, Knights, LKs, and RKs are about spamming skills, going agi with a Knight type class, was always the worst way to go.

Edited by Zoltor, 28 September 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[azumak1]

Can someone explain to me, what the OP means? Because even if many of the RK skills require almost lv cap, special gears, ect to get the most out of, RKs still have access to the Kight, and LK skills, which are among the best in the game, so I'm confused on what the hell the OP is complaining about?

 

RK gives what the char really requires, access to better equips, and more stats. Not to mention the RK's support skills are awesome as well. 

 

 

Edit: Oh the OP is a agi/crit build, well that  explains things, Knights, LKs, and RKs are about spamming skills, going agi with a Knight type class, was always the worst way to go.

 

Despite several players (including myself, and now, you) offering evidence to the contrary, killedbytofu basically ignored all of it. He even had a separate thread complaining about the difficulty of using Bowling Bash, calling it a completely useless skill. Pages went on even with video evidence (thanks KamiKali!) disproving him and of course, he didn't acknowledge it at all. 

[Zoltor]

Despite several players (including myself, and now, you) offering evidence to the contrary, killedbytofu basically ignored all of it. He even had a separate thread complaining about the difficulty of using Bowling Bash, calling it a completely useless skill. Pages went on even with video evidence (thanks KamiKali!) disproving him and of course, he didn't acknowledge it at all. 

 

I'm personally not a big fan of BB myself, but damn that skill is powerful(easily one of the most powerful non 3rd job skills in the entire game, most trans jobs wish they had a skill like that), and you get use to it, if you use it a lot.  I like Brandish Spear personally, because of the super fast casting time, It's a spammable AOE, what's not to like However with that said, BB usually one hits everything, where it usually takes 2 if not 3 shots of brandish. Hell some Rogue's get Intimidate "just" so they can learn BB, to make up for being so underpowered, so needless to say It's a pretty damn good skill.

 

The only stronger AOE for the entire 2nd reg  job tier, is probally GC, but that can only do high damage to Shadow, and Undead, BB has no such limitations, you can hunt where ever the hell you want to..

 

This game is about knowledge, if you're ignorant(or in his case, ignorant, and unwilling to learn), and not good at grasping how things work/how to use such to their fullest, you're bound to have a really hard time getting anywhere in this game.

[Kadelia]

Among 2nd jobs (even Transcendents!) Bowling bash is THE best AoE-- better than GC by a mile. It was one of the best WoE skills pre-renewal, too.

 

The only think making that skill not ridiculously unfair is it is hard to use. Besides, if it worked 100% of the time, brandish spear would be useless.

[azumak1]

Gasp! Players with years of experience and well thought-out posts know what they're talking about?! 

 

Not surprising, really. :>

[vnivni]

you seem to have added a bunch of words that i never posted. i never once said that rgs wernt soloable and i never once said that they couldnt pvp. what i specifically said was that i didnt have enough job levels to get overbrand, which was making leveling AT MY LEVEL impossible because i was too high for single target killing. I had accidentally leveled out of the 99 bracket so i could no longer milk job levels off the board (i had forgotten that EXP accumulates when youre 99, so when i job changed i was instantly 102 ><).

 

You can't level twice at once, so you job changed at 99, hit a poring= lv 100 at 95.5% max.

Edited by vnivni, 03 October 2013 - 12:55 AM.

[Jtanz]

Last 2 years I was a Sura 150/50 (as I thought this is my main character's forever) but I sold them to my friend in less 2 minutes because I decided to be an RK.