75 replies to this topic

[Fishoid]

Agreed, our lower TI party broke up within 10 mins of being there. So much death. I don't see how a first class character could even survive there. I haven't been back since then. No point in just mindless dying.

As for the second TI I also have to agree with what's mentioned above. My 101-104 characters don't get crap for exp there about 600 exp base and 550 exp job. I finally gave up and just went to anacondas. 9xxx/8xxx there. Much faster.

Edited by Fishoid, 13 June 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[MeisterKirisaki]

Just finished a run, so no.

Yeah you're just lucky to get into a party when people were still trying. I saw your reply and went in again. http://i.imgur.com/kPcO3pJ.jpg

lol low TI is COMPLETELY empty. not a single person in there. was just winging around and its at full spawn. everyone is in MID right now

You must be there at the wrong time. I was there again, easily got into a 75+ party and finished the run with one HP (no other support) and Strings on my 81 High Wizard (84 after getting counts before turning in). Killers in this party: two High Wizards. I understand that this TI can be frustrating, but you should also understand that this TI is not even close to an impossible mission. If something seems impossible, you can give up or find a solution.

[gaiveRain]

Game needs to be more "newbie friendly". I've met some new players this week who is having a hard time not just with the low turn-ins but also getting to know some important aspects of the game, like who to talk to or where to go etc..

Edited by gaiveRain, 14 June 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[killedbytofu]

Game needs to more "newbie friendly". I've met some new players this week who is having a hard time not just with the low turn-ins but also getting to know some important aspects of the game, like who to talk to or where to go etc..

1) its the lack of Signs above NPCs heads or any sort of direction to show newbies whos a quest giver (the eden teleporter however does have one, but once inside its just a cluster of hell and the only npc that really alerts you is gramps)
2) its the lack of information on the actual quests themselves. most quests dont even tell you where to turn the quest in let alone give you any clues as to how to solve the quest/where to go
3) its the lack of startup post newbie training ground information. they should give the newbies tips on where to level based on what class they are as well as some build tips based on the classes strenghts and weaknesses
4) its the lack of zeny payout from doing questboard quests that leaves the newbies helpless and 100% reliant on eden gear and novice training pots (which become worthless pretty fast) and then leave the newbies dependent on the potions sold by tool shop. there should be fresh fish for sale in every town and a newbie tool tip to get players used to buying THOSE instead of potions

5)eden....oh eden. :: facepalm :: not even gonna touch that one. it needs restructuring so bad. as suggested in another thread, they need to teleport players looking to do TI to a waiting room to recruit parties in so that they dont clutter the main room of eden. This would also alleviate the problem with not being able to get parties in mid and high TI's.

[teffalockheart]

Game needs to more "newbie friendly". I've met some new players this week who is having a hard time not just with the low turn-ins but also getting to know some important aspects of the game, like who to talk to or where to go etc..

yeah, i met a returning player yesterday, he just know about low TI after i told him. After 30 minutes, he pm me, the party kicked him coz he have very low survival rate, dying non-stop, then he said to me he will just wandering around maps killing

to ppl who say it is easy, take out your millions zeny equip and wear basic one, then post here your result...

[MeisterKirisaki]

to ppl who say it is easy, take out your millions zeny equip and wear basic one, then post here your result...

No one said it's easy as far as I can tell. Surviving is not a matter of millions spent on gear.


Not a single death in this setup for anyone.

Killer: Ranger (sorry that we got a Ranger, of course the next argument is "yes with Ranger it's easy, please try with just a naked Assassin as main killer")
Support: 3 regular Priests, one left the map for a turn in or something
Strings, Gypsy's Kiss
Hunter, Assassin
Mobber: Alchemist

No one used rare or extremely expensive gear. On Dancer, I can't use amazing gear anyway. If you look at the screenshot, you'll notice a few things: the location, a careful mobber, a medium-sized party.

[Lunebeam]

Of course the game is hard for a new player.

You coast along easy like until level 101. Then you suddenly find you need a 30-60+ million weapon, a 60-80+ million healing hat (Or drinking whites, or fish if you can get by off those, I know I can't) and maybe various other gears. At this point if you are a physical damager you need 8-10k endows every three minutes (if you even know about endows) or a ton of gems as a magic user. At 101 getting in a mid ti will be hard unless you are a very needed class if you don't have the right gears/skills/build.

If no one told you to grind jobs at 99 and don't go level 100+, then your experience is extra worse (I didn't know to do this with my first 100). A newbie suddenly finds they can't afford the gear they need (And they just paid 6-8 million for a reset stone, which is likely all their money), can't get a ti party easily, possibly find out the build they went with isn't possible 100+ (They just removed hypnotist so sucks for new players), theres no eden signs to point the way that has been leading them thus far.

So its like they are left to think, "What do I do now?" They can make a new character, quit, cash shop/surverys, or money grind for weeks/months, or grind lower level mobs for increasingly lower exp rates. The only fun sounding option is make a new character. A few might get into a guild that hands them money or power levels if they are lucky or very sociable or a much needed class or grind it out on terrible exp.

101-130 is like a big dead zone for new players. They are too poor for anything and they don't have the levels to ET/WOE (On top of not having the gear).

If they are lucky and they started during an event that's giving them some item(s) that can make a huge difference if those items have a lot of value. This current event might be such a one, I know the hats cannot be traded/vended, but the tames possibly can. While they aren't going to be worth much for a while, a few months from now they might be.

Just one small thing that could make the game more enjoyable for new players is allow anyone up to lvl 110-115 to do quests from the final eden sign so they can still get job levels. It also helps those that are too poor/low level for mid ti. The reward doesn't have to increase, but it helps people get the 1-20 job levels they need to succeed in mid ti if they forgot and went over 99.

Edited by Lunebeam, 14 June 2013 - 09:39 PM.

[gaiveRain]

No one said it's easy as far as I can tell. Surviving is not a matter of millions spent on gear.


Not a single death in this setup for anyone.

Killer: Ranger (sorry that we got a Ranger, of course the next argument is "yes with Ranger it's easy, please try with just a naked Assassin as main killer")
Support: 3 regular Priests, one left the map for a turn in or something
Strings, Gypsy's Kiss
Hunter, Assassin
Mobber: Alchemist

No one used rare or extremely expensive gear. On Dancer, I can't use amazing gear anyway. If you look at the screenshot, you'll notice a few things: the location, a careful mobber, a medium-sized party.

Every leader of a party would know what to recruit like from your screenshot, problem is the classes needed aren't always available, not everyone is in level range, and not everyone can wait long enough for the party to be completed.

[neko09]

I finished it too, it was fun while it lasted, but I definitely do not need this level of stress for the rest of the week. I was playing a healer and at one point it felt like I was playing Tetris on Speed level 12.

Made me LOL.

[killedbytofu]

Of course the game is hard for a new player.

You coast along easy like until level 101. Then you suddenly find you need a 30-60+ million weapon, a 60-80+ million healing hat (Or drinking whites, or fish if you can get by off those, I know I can't) and maybe various other gears. At this point if you are a physical damager you need 8-10k endows every three minutes (if you even know about endows) or a ton of gems as a magic user. At 101 getting in a mid ti will be hard unless you are a very needed class if you don't have the right gears/skills/build.

If no one told you to grind jobs at 99 and don't go level 100+, then your experience is extra worse (I didn't know to do this with my first 100). A newbie suddenly finds they can't afford the gear they need (And they just paid 6-8 million for a reset stone, which is likely all their money), can't get a ti party easily, possibly find out the build they went with isn't possible 100+ (They just removed hypnotist so sucks for new players), theres no eden signs to point the way that has been leading them thus far.

So its like they are left to think, "What do I do now?" They can make a new character, quit, cash shop/surverys, or money grind for weeks/months, or grind lower level mobs for increasingly lower exp rates. The only fun sounding option is make a new character. A few might get into a guild that hands them money or power levels if they are lucky or very sociable or a much needed class or grind it out on terrible exp.

101-130 is like a big dead zone for new players. They are too poor for anything and they don't have the levels to ET/WOE (On top of not having the gear).

If they are lucky and they started during an event that's giving them some item(s) that can make a huge difference if those items have a lot of value. This current event might be such a one, I know the hats cannot be traded/vended, but the tames possibly can. While they aren't going to be worth much for a while, a few months from now they might be.

Just one small thing that could make the game more enjoyable for new players is allow anyone up to lvl 110-115 to do quests from the final eden sign so they can still get job levels. It also helps those that are too poor/low level for mid ti. The reward doesn't have to increase, but it helps people get the 1-20 job levels they need to succeed in mid ti if they forgot and went over 99.

^this. this game is in dire need of a 100-115 questboard so that we can get the job levels needed to solo level or join ti parties. my poor royal guard is completely useless right now because he doesnt have enough jobs for overbrand, has no other aoe thats efficient for leveling, and nobody will let him in mid TIs because hes not a sura, ranger, or arch bishop. im an excellent puller/tanker but they dont care. all of the parties are usually only recruiting priests. if i had overbrand i would just solo nogg and level that way since its better exp then the mid ti anyways.

ive had alot of new players in my mid parties that i have been able to get (on my other classes of course lol), and i find that they struggle really hard to keep up. i help them out as best i can and offer advice, but its still sad to see. this game has blatant flaws in it that could so easily be fixed with a few tweaks (such as giving zeny rewards from questboards).

[ShiveringShadows]

^this. this game is in dire need of a 100-115 questboard so that we can get the job levels needed to solo level or join ti parties.

Future korean ragnarok online update.

my poor royal guard is completely useless right now because he doesnt have enough jobs for overbrand, has no other aoe thats efficient for leveling, and nobody will let him in mid TIs because hes not a sura, ranger, or arch bishop. im an excellent puller/tanker but they dont care. all of the parties are usually only recruiting priests. if i had overbrand i would just solo nogg and level that way since its better exp then the mid ti anyways.

Recruit party members yourself.

ive had alot of new players in my mid parties that i have been able to get (on my other classes of course lol), and i find that they struggle really hard to keep up. i help them out as best i can and offer advice, but its still sad to see. this game has blatant flaws in it that could so easily be fixed with a few tweaks (such as giving zeny rewards from questboards).

That's just what this server needs, more money coming in and less money going out.

[Lunebeam]

Eden quests giving big money rewards isn't a good idea, because.

A. If the reward is good enough bots will do it. And YES, bots can do quests. Just because someone is wearing an eden cap doesn't mean its not a bot. I think some of them do eden's just so they get reported less often, same reason they are almost always female rogues too now.

B. The market prices will take into account that everyone suddenly has more money

The problem is that

A. Bots ruin low level economy
B. Edens ruin low gear economy
C. Fast leveling on eden's leaves new players unprepared at the first gear check
D. They are hit with a reset stone 6-8 million price tag at the exact same time as the gear check hits.
E. Eden quests end with players often saved in an area like racheal where most monsters have rubbish drops (roween, stapo, ect). Yet those monsters do a lot of damage.

F. New players have no access to easy/cheap healing, yet 101+ monsters hit hard/have a ton of hp. The witch hat is 80+ million and rising. Hell poodle cards's meat simply weighs too much for the amount of heal it does on all but merchant/swordsman classes, since no one kills in ice caves anymore ice cream cards are very, very rarely ever in shops (Even then to buy them in bulk you have to be married which is like 500 or 1000 kp and you need a 3 million marc card to not get frozen). The 50 million turkey hat eggs are for some reason, worth more than a white potion (So I just sell these instead of use them for healing). If a new player decides to stick with fish or meat, just to make those items more usable 100+ its still 80+ million for fish in mouth or umbala spirit (on top of the hell poodle cards 16-24 million price for two if using meat)

G. Ti parties usually leave drops since most of them are already wealthy players so, new players in parties aren't getting much money in low Ti. Even then, loot isn't always set to share if someone is greeding. So they are possibly getting rushed to 101 even more zennyless.

Edited by Lunebeam, 15 June 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[jsquishy]

It sucks to be in eden gear (I'm still poor so I'm still using it and I can comment). Well I think the problem is new players not only have no gear, but they also have less experience with stats, skills and just moving around. I think TI really changes how people should stat, and those new might not know. For example, wizards that solo usually dump most stats on int, then dex and much less vit, cuz when soloing you want to one hit things or freeze and then hit so int is most important. But in TI its all about surviving. Noone cares if you kill if you can freeze, so everything goes to vit. If they've been soloing all the time, and they go in TI with int/dex no vit, they're gona get raped week after week, and then leave the game.

I think this server needs better reset tools to cater for the learning curve of the new players that come in.

[Lunebeam]

It sucks to be in eden gear (I'm still poor so I'm still using it and I can comment). Well I think the problem is new players not only have no gear, but they also have less experience with stats, skills and just moving around. I think TI really changes how people should stat, and those new might not know. For example, wizards that solo usually dump most stats on int, then dex and much less vit, cuz when soloing you want to one hit things or freeze and then hit so int is most important. But in TI its all about surviving. Noone cares if you kill if you can freeze, so everything goes to vit. If they've been soloing all the time, and they go in TI with int/dex no vit, they're gona get raped week after week, and then leave the game.

I think this server needs better reset tools to cater for the learning curve of the new players that come in.

There used to be a 1 time free restat/reskill and most everyone loved it and many people built around it. But they removed it. For a new player that suddenly discovers they messed up a build, it goes back to the start a new character or on top of all the gear prices another 40-50 million and idk how many reset stones (6-8 million each) loop . Classes that can rebirth get a little flexability by doing that, but classes that cannot if they mess up don't get that luxuary at all like ninja, extended novice, one day gunslinger.

There is a mesmerist, but not only doesn't she reset stats, but she won't do anything 39+. You don't know by 39 anything about the game really because you've likely only been playing 1-3 days. You likely don't even know she exists and by the time you do, your highely likely to be over 39.

I've been playing a while and I still find new things all the time that could help new players. Like I recently found out there is a npc that sells market place seach scrolls for 200 zenny. I didn't use it, because I use ragial. But that might be really helpful to new players who don't know that website to save time.

[kiefer]

The problem is you level so fast that your gear lags behind on your growth.

[Lunebeam]

The problem is you level so fast that your gear lags behind on your growth.

I wouldn't say the gear lags, because there pretty much is no gear until 90-100. Because edens are useful/usable up to 90s for most classes. Then your buying your near end game gear out of thin air.

You will likely have to buy a weapon before 100, but other than that edens can be done.

Certs and things to upgrade with are actually pretty expensiive to a new player. And the cert itself might have costs 1/2 or 1/3 as much as the weapon they saved up to buy.

New players also don't know that they should wait for weeks when the better smiths are in town to upgrade with. So they are usually getting a lot more fails. I've used the regular smith a few times and never got a single +7 unless I was using a very low level weapon.

[Razzez]

I wouldn't say the gear lags, because there pretty much is no gear until 90-100. Because edens are useful/usable up to 90s for most classes. Then your buying your near end game gear out of thin air.

You will likely have to buy a weapon before 100, but other than that edens can be done.

Certs and things to upgrade with are actually pretty expensiive to a new player. And the cert itself might have costs 1/2 or 1/3 as much as the weapon they saved up to buy.

New players also don't know that they should wait for weeks when the better smiths are in town to upgrade with. So they are usually getting a lot more fails. I've used the regular smith a few times and never got a single +7 unless I was using a very low level weapon.

The Eden Armor is really the only Eden Gear that's any good. The Manteau is okay to start out with when you have nothing else. There are better weapons though.


Today really sucked. The server was down for over 2 hours & close to 3. Some 10th Anniversary. There have been nothing but problems since this past maintenance

Edited by Razzez, 15 June 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[2222130506233716470]

my favorite is people going "yay! finally some STRATEGY lulz nubs will haev 2 work hard 2 levul!!11"

as if they haven't exploited easy TIs before. give me a freaking break.

[Ha3mme8tt]

[teffalockheart]

If the strategy is ignoring all other class except healer, sacrificer, ental strentgh, wizard... Then ......

[Razzez]

If the strategy is ignoring all other class except healer, sacrificer, ental strentgh, wizard... Then ......

That's exactly the problem & why it's so difficult to get on a party to do a TI. Most parties will only accept people that are the specific classes needed for a party & even then if you happen to be that class you still can't get on if they already have that spot filled. So about half, or more, of the classes aren't the "Wanted" ones for parties. Thief's, Merchants (except maybe a Gene), etc...


& Ha3mme8tt don't troll!

Edited by Razzez, 15 June 2013 - 10:22 PM.

[HealingPalms]

^this. this game is in dire need of a 100-115 questboard so that we can get the job levels needed to solo level or join ti parties. my poor royal guard is completely useless right now because he doesnt have enough jobs for overbrand, has no other aoe thats efficient for leveling, and nobody will let him in mid TIs because hes not a sura, ranger, or arch bishop. im an excellent puller/tanker but they dont care. all of the parties are usually only recruiting priests. if i had overbrand i would just solo nogg and level that way since its better exp then the mid ti anyways.

ive had alot of new players in my mid parties that i have been able to get (on my other classes of course lol), and i find that they struggle really hard to keep up. i help them out as best i can and offer advice, but its still sad to see. this game has blatant flaws in it that could so easily be fixed with a few tweaks (such as giving zeny rewards from questboards).

Have to say most ti parties I am in they take 1 RG for sac, it makes you more useful than over brand which knocks things out of other aoe areas

[Razzez]

My RG is overbrand & doesn't have sac. I never had any problems getting on TI's when I used to play him but that was before the merge so I don't know what things are like now. There were more then one RG in the parties I was in. RG's are great tankers/pullers. Sure they can't kill mobs like other classes can but they can still kill more & quicker then others

Edited by Razzez, 15 June 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[killedbytofu]

Eden quests giving big money rewards isn't a good idea, because of bots

that is the stupidest reasoning for not putting something in a game ive ever heard. 'o well the bots will benefit from it, so therefor we cant help players out'. lol then why dont we just shut the entire game down right now since were gonna give in to bots every whim and desire. since when the hell do bots determine how a game should run? this game is failing financially because they are already catering too much to bots and new players are suffering because of it. the bots are gonna bot regardless of what buffs they put in. the bots are going to make money regardless of what they put in or take out. its a bot. its entire sole purpose is to continually play, make money, and level.

every RPG ever made in the history of RPGs (including dungeons and dragons dice rolling game) gives cash rewards for quests. the fact that this game DOESNT is almost mind blowing. its the #1 reason behind so many players failing and giving up on this game. they end up going broke buying potions because they know of no other alternatives, and the game makes them so reliant on those potions that they have no choice but to keep dumping the very little money they have into healing instead of being able to buy gear or other things.

world of warcraft = #1 most successful mmo of all time = gives cash rewards to players to help get them started. i cant even imagine playing that game without the cash rewards. all of your gear would break and youd be left with no way to fix it or heal

It sucks to be in eden gear (I'm still poor so I'm still using it and I can comment). Well I think the problem is new players not only have no gear, but they also have less experience with stats, skills and just moving around. I think TI really changes how people should stat, and those new might not know. For example, wizards that solo usually dump most stats on int, then dex and much less vit, cuz when soloing you want to one hit things or freeze and then hit so int is most important. But in TI its all about surviving. Noone cares if you kill if you can freeze, so everything goes to vit. If they've been soloing all the time, and they go in TI with int/dex no vit, they're gona get raped week after week, and then leave the game.

I think this server needs better reset tools to cater for the learning curve of the new players that come in.

im in the process of redoing the wizard section on irowiki right now. i wasnt aware that it was so out of date/wrong. all wizards should use the 90int/80 dex/60vit build for leveling. there is no excuse for having anything less then 50 vit on a wizard. ESPECIALLY for soloing, where you are definitely going to get hit, you should be able to survive more then 3-5 hits since youll be mob training

my favorite is people going "yay! finally some STRATEGY lulz nubs will haev 2 work hard 2 levul!!11"

as if they haven't exploited easy TIs before. give me a freaking break.

theyre just bitter and jaded because their characters are maxed out and they have nothing to look forward to anymore. they probably never got the awesome luxery of getting to TI in dungeon instances when they started so now theyre just bitter and jealous. ive been playing rag for 10 years and ill tell you, it wasnt that great before TIs. the only thing that was better was that maps had much better spawns to grind on, so you didnt NEED ti dungeons.

If the strategy is ignoring all other class except healer, sacrificer, ental strentgh, wizard... Then ......

yea pretty much.

Have to say most ti parties I am in they take 1 RG for sac, it makes you more useful than over brand which knocks things out of other aoe areas

getting sac requires you to waste all of your job points for 1 skill. im going to be mvping with my rg, so i need spear mastery and quicken + defiance aura. in a perfect world, we would still have free skill resets, but that world no longer exists

[MeisterKirisaki]

my favorite is people going "yay! finally some STRATEGY lulz nubs will haev 2 work hard 2 levul!!11"

as if they haven't exploited easy TIs before. give me a freaking break.

Quote those people you're talking about. And then I'm pretty sure these people would tell you they leveled their characters to 99 when no one even knew about TIs. Some weeks there are easy TIs, some weeks there are harder TIs, some TIs are boring, others are more exciting. Most complains I see are about harder TIs, but that's because people are used to easy runs. Do you prefer a dull game?

Every party I've joined so far succeeded the TI run. There were people in Eden gear, and they didn't die a lot nor did they complain. They did their job, knew what to do and followed party play. I've also been in parties with preferred classes (Ranger, AB, High Wizard), but due to lack of organisation they were worse than my parties with just regular classes.

If the strategy is ignoring all other class except healer, sacrificer, ental strentgh, wizard... Then ......

Where do you get your facts from? I see Knights, Agi classes, Alchemists, Smiths - I see every class in parties I'm in and in other parties. The strategy is not running around like a headless monkey, not hitting stuff when you can't kill it fast, stand in Pneuma/Sanctuary and at a wall etc. How often did you try out this TI?