159 replies to this topic

[Reyaje]

3 Words, Presence of Mind. 

[Gerrr]

Yes, because unlike RL scams where they cheat you by throwing in a hidden clause somewhere or phishing, you can clearly see "is there a number on the item or not?" This is more like going to the grocery store and QQing because you bought the wrong brand. Check the label, then buy it.

 

That's a terrible analogy. Grocery stores don't involve people instantly buying out 'sales' on a single very limited item, not to mention you can get refunds at grocery stores.

 

You're pretty much saying "these people are more stupid than me so they deserve it". Next you'll tell me that people with poor English who get scammed in real life by complicated contracts and whatnot deserve it and don't have any rights because anybody can learn English or maybe they should have gotten someone to help them read over it, and so if they ever took the scammers to court they would instantly lose.

 

This is all besides the point though. It still falls into the category of a scam since it is a method designed to trick people into giving their money away, regardless of how smarter or better than other people you think you are. Scamming is against the rules, which is why Garahe made this thread.

 

Your enabling attitude is what lets scammers thrive in online games. I won't bother arguing with you any longer since you've admitted to it.

[Lyrinn]

Nice slippery slope there, but keep the fallacies coming. Maybe you'll come up with a concrete argument. Nothing you've said changes the fact that you clearly see exactly what you're buying and for how much.

Edited by Lyrinn, 04 August 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[matthewcupu]

cant they look the amount of the items??people who get tricked are just too stupid.  they deserve it, hahahahahahaa.........

[UchihaDave]

 Stability in a market place what is already faltering will be one tough task. I think it comes down to their is not a large enough player base to have the necessity for crafted gear at this rate. Colo gear replaces crafted easy, certain pots are laughable, and content for raid gear is just too limited. It all comes down to the Devs.

 

 

Hmm..I don't agree with you

People actually WANT crafted gears. (Later, the Hell Valkyrie craft from AoD is even better than Tier 2 Colo gear !)

But the problem is the craft DROP RATE is way too low (Design), after more than a month of CoA and there is still no one have crafting service for Pitch Valkyrie is ridiculous in my opinion....They must increase the drop rate in my opinion.

[XionArcadia]

Hmm..I don't agree with you
People actually WANT crafted gears. (Later, the Hell Valkyrie craft from AoD is even better than Tier 2 Colo gear !)
But the problem is the craft DROP RATE is way too low (Design), after more than a month of CoA and there is still no one have crafting service for Pitch Valkyrie is ridiculous in my opinion....They must increase the drop rate in my opinion.

Hardly, even our infamous Winry has had to lower pricess due to low demand. You are talking about gear that is still inferior to colo that drops off a boss fight that is "impossibru" AoD requires us to reach that point. Again it comes down to low population. A game with players that are full geared without spending zeny, farming mats, or even needing to do raid content is only gonna cause more crafted gear stagnation. Consumables are the only thing that is ever gonna be "needed" for future content and those are not that worthwhile. A decked out person probably only needs what, master reds and heavenly sausage right now? Heck, we get those given to us every day for free. Can't rely on people making alts to keep an economy rolling.

[SephySama]

 A decked out person probably only needs what, master reds and heavenly sausage right now? Heck, we get those given to us every day for free. Can't rely on people making alts to keep an economy rolling.

 

dont tell the GMs this or it will get nurfed. i like my spinel repair kits and sausages
 

[Lyrinn]

Hardly, even our infamous Winry has had to lower pricess due to low demand. You are talking about gear that is still inferior to colo that drops off a boss fight that is "impossibru" AoD requires us to reach that point. Again it comes down to low population. A game with players that are full geared without spending zeny, farming mats, or even needing to do raid content is only gonna cause more crafted gear stagnation. Consumables are the only thing that is ever gonna be "needed" for future content and those are not that worthwhile. A decked out person probably only needs what, master reds and heavenly sausage right now? Heck, we get those given to us every day for free. Can't rely on people making alts to keep an economy rolling.

 

You mean low demand for overpriced goods? There's still demand for crafted gear since some people are still making alts, but it's true. Without an influx of new players to keep the market fresh, living off of anything other than "necessary" consumables is non-sustainable. Even then, if you buy all the mats for making high-tier food or potions, the profit margin is disappointing low.

[iyoter]

I cant help but notice all these players putting scam price on auction does any GM bother to check on these players anyway?

 

EX: Check recovery potion red potion 1pc for 30z wtf clear scammer punish these players GM.... Do your job please!!!!

The main reason why many people does that is to cover 2-5 pages in the AH.

 

For example, 1 guy is selling master reds for 25z per stack. The next guys is going to bury that by putting in 1pc after 1pc and then he's going to sell his master reds for a more expensive price. However, the 30z for 1pc is another thing.

[RORose]

The main reason why many people does that is to cover 2-5 pages in the AH.

 

For example, 1 guy is selling master reds for 25z per stack. The next guys is going to bury that by putting in 1pc after 1pc and then he's going to sell his master reds for a more expensive price. However, the 30z for 1pc is another thing.

 

Yup and for some reason those 30z pots will sell first, people tend to not spend the time to click and look on other pages.

[Vandrewmm]

What about the fact that Rabbit Ear is a non costume item yet it has the same name with the costume item and Icon with Rabbit Ears and Rabbit Headband?! IS that a scam? call the GM to fix that translation!

 

Rabbit Ears (Costume)

Rabbit Headband (Costume)

Rabbit Ear (Worthless piece of crap)

 

PROBLEM?!

You must be new here and to any MMO's but you should remember that playing the game responsibly is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, because no GM is going to spoon feed you here... If you gave out your password or shared an account with someone is that your fault or their fault? If people opened up vending shops and sold things at outrageously high prices to capture people that couldn't be bothered to check AH? ARE THEY FORCED to settle at market prices? NO!

 

Its a free market and if you're too blind or too lazy to check AH, then those people deserve to get a bad deal...

Edited by Vandrewmm, 05 August 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[RavenTDA]

Some people will try to scam you. It's just an everyday occurrence in life. BUT just because an item is high in price doesn't mean that was their intention. Sometimes people just name a random price on stuff they sell without actually looking at what others have up for stuff in price. It could also be a slip up or mistake that got unnoticed by pressing an extra zero or whatever. You don't always have to assume the worst. And because of that the GMs can't go around policing the AH because it's too gray. The best you can do is just try to educate yourself on where to get items you're looking for, what is their typical price, and double checking when you go to bid or buy.

[iyoter]

Some people will try to scam you. It's just an everyday occurrence in life. BUT just because an item is high in price doesn't mean that was their intention. Sometimes people just name a random price on stuff they sell without actually looking at what others have up for stuff in price. It could also be a slip up or mistake that got unnoticed by pressing an extra zero or whatever. You don't always have to assume the worst. And because of that the GMs can't go around policing the AH because it's too gray. The best you can do is just try to educate yourself on where to get items you're looking for, what is their typical price, and double checking when you go to bid or buy.

 

Felony are committed not only by means of deceit but also by means of fault.

 

There is deceit when the act is performed with deliberate intent; and there is fault when the wrongful act results from imprudence, negligence, lack of foresight, or lack of skill.

[Lyrinn]

In the end, it all comes down to greed. People see a low price and hastily buy it out thinking it's a good deal. Why else would they not take a few seconds to double-check what they're buying? Because they don't want someone else buying it out (for cheap). As long as greed is the motive for making silly mistakes, it will forever be the fault of the buyer, regardless of how "wrong" the seller may have been.

[Moonreil]

Made me remember the card-swap scams in RO1 waaay back... ohhh the nostalgia..

[NuwaChan]

How about the vendors outside the auction, or in front of dungeons that try to sell things for 4x the AH price....

Edited by NuwaChan, 05 August 2013 - 03:43 AM.

[iyoter]

In the end, it all comes down to greed. People see a low price and hastily buy it out thinking it's a good deal. Why else would they not take a few seconds to double-check what they're buying? Because they don't want someone else buying it out (for cheap). As long as greed is the motive for making silly mistakes, it will forever be the fault of the buyer, regardless of how "wrong" the seller may have been.

 

This is the internet so not much give a . But in real life, I don't know about you guys, but it is always the sellers fault even if he/she didn't intend to sell an unreasonable priced item. That is negligence. There are even gov agencies keeping watch on the market specially when there is panic buying.

Edited by iyoter, 05 August 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[VanS3n]

What we lack is price regulation.. but that is hard to implement in itself..

 

For most parts, people can sell items at the price of their choosing since there is no standard pricing in the first place.

 

Best way is not to patronize em sellers and make them eventually lower their prices to the reasonable amount since they can't profit from it anymore.

 

Seeing unreasonable prices in AH is normal, better than em gold buyers blantantly spamming public chat.

Edited by VanS3n, 05 August 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Moonreil]

How about the vendors outside the auction, or in front of dungeons that try to sell things for 4x the AH price....

How could that be considered as scam?

[LostDreamer]

Its for other players not me LOL! Just have a feeling you two are doing that and again just correct me if im wrong.

Garahe dont start accusing people of stuff, not cool. everyones entitled to their point of view, even if they dont agree with how you see it..

personally the way i see it with no set amounts on prices ,people have it easier just putting in a price and hope they can make some zeny.. doesnt exactly mean your scamming anyone, cuz its the buyers responsibility to check all Auctions before buying. so if someone puts something crazy over priced, then dont buy it and keep looking.

[DatMONKey]

We don't need regulation or anything.

People need to pay attention and think.

 

If you're unsure about prices or the value of something then ask people that have played longer than you or use your better judgement to see if it's worth the cost. A lot of things are overpriced, especially because the zenny flood from a while back was never properly handled. If you notice that there is less than 3 pages of an item on the AH then the price will tend to be higher because there is a lack of supply. This does not mean that the item is valuable. The same can be said for Mini Mongi cards, they are expensive but not any rarer than the other CoA cards barring Kramp. There just aren't too many because people can't/won't kill the boss.

 

There are also people that will buy up all the items and then repost a limited supply at a much higher cost (Firmament Essence I, Concentrated Yggdrasil Extract, VIP, etc). The only thing you can do is not support this kind of behavior by not buying from them.

 

The bottom line is either pay attention with your money or suffer the consequences.

[LordKratos]

Clearly these players intention is to scam other players using auction house, we know it our responsibility to be careful but wth is GM for anyway? 

 

It is not 'clear' what their intention was when they price something - some reasons for pricing could be as simple as not knowing value of item and making up a value 'they' would pay for it, whether its realistic or not - I could give tons of reasons why prices are set but in no way does it clarify or make things 'clear' why they were set for the value you deemed as a 'scam'.

 

Youre the one whos confuse here bro,  these players intention is to deceit other players. And its not the price he sees fit. 

 

Another thing I pondered is when did you meet these people to tell you their intentions were to deceive others. That psychic hotline...

 

So now you agree that this players intention is to deceit/ scam other players... And theres no rule on scamming huh? I just have a

 

feeling you doing it too, correct me if im wrong though...

 

Scamming and price gouging are totally 2 different things - I know this is hard to understand so bear with me.

Scamming is the act of deceit which in example would be both parties agree on an exchange for said item for said price. One party does not fulfill his end of the bargain that both parties agreed upon by deceiving the other party into thinking that the original agreement is still being honored. Only to find out after the exchange one of the parties did not receive what was agreed upon in the first place.

Pricing gouging is selling said item higher than what would be reasonable in the current market. The item is posted as is and that price can not be changed so the buyer knows exactly what he is agreeing upon with the seller.

 

Do I believe either of these actions are morally right? No, I do not but guess what? That is not the GMs job to teach and reinforce positive morals. There job is enforce rules within the game - if you feel that pricing gouging is something that should be added to the rules than contact a GM and see what can be done with it.

 

Its for other players not me LOL! Just have a feeling you two are doing that and again just correct me if im wrong.   

 

You love to say 'correct me if I'm wrong' - so as requested I am correcting you. It just seems when people try to explain things to you and it doesn't abide to your way of thinking than obviously they must be also apart of said conspiracy. The way you jump the gun on everything and presume everyone is guilty when they don't agree with your way of thinking makes me laugh. People will always act and think differently from each other and just because ones ideas doesn't match up with your own doesn't mean anything than the fact that you 2 don't agree on said argument. However you might want to educate yourself a little more on what your arguing about and look at what people are presenting you with when it comes to said information. I think we can all agree that 'price gouging' is morally wrong and the ones who do it intentionally should be smacked in the head but that is an entirely different conversation for a completely different topic.

 

Good Day

Edited by LordKratos, 05 August 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[Gerrr]

Artificial inflation isn't the same thing as intentionally trying to deceive people into thinking a single item is a stack or whatever.

 

Nobody deserves to be tricked out of their money, whether it be in an MMO or real life (though you could argue they do if they did something bad and needed karma to kick in). In fact making a stack of master reds then selling 20 single lots at the price of a full stack costs nothing but time and a tiny amount of rupee whereas trying to buy out then relist the entire stock of an item is costly and risky. As long as people can get away with minimal effort trickery that apparently works then they'll keep doing it. I see no reason why this kind of behavior should be tolerated, unless you're the kind of person who enjoys laughing at the misfortune of others.

[Audn]

I cant help but notice all these players putting scam price on auction does any GM bother to check on these players anyway?

 

EX: Check recovery potion red potion 1pc for 30z wtf clear scammer punish these players GM.... Do your job please!!!!

 

Don't come in blaming peole or spilling drama over it. It'd be better to suggest a better AH mechanic. Because It's 99% sure you can't get that money back, and 99% that scammer won't get punished. (Yeah, I don't see any rules for AH-pricing posted anywhere). Sorry for being blunt but that's what you get for not paying attention. (Yeah, I've fallen for that trick, once, too. Bought 1 Crafted Master Red Potion for 27z)

 

It's like accidentally luring mobs during RHD: face the consequences. 

 

So if you accidentally buy something thinking it was something else, it's all your fault.

 

Selling tricky-priced stuff is like 

• joining RHD right before Colosseum just to get buffed for colosseum by strangers...
• Concurrently queuing for  colosseum.
• Stealing Raid Drops. 

All these things are low and dirty, but sadly, there are no rules against them.

 

... Better not buy things in AH while I'm feeling sleepy, huh?

Edited by Audn, 05 August 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Haboob]

How much is a stack of master reds going for? 30z?

How much is the single master red being sold for? 20-30z?

 

They are probably trying to get the buyer to accidently grab their 30z master red while they fast purchase a bunch of master red stacks. Another one would be the intention is to trick the player thinking it's a cheap 20z stack of reds so they will buy it quickly without checking how many reds are in the stack. Either or it's a scam plain and simple and merits punishment.  Hiding in AH will not make you immune from the lawman and the way to notice scammers is to just check the market values.