111 replies to this topic

[CharAznable]

I haven't been informed that they needed my original images.
I've only been informed that they wanted a jpg without specifying any sort of compression ratio limitations.
Sirens flash there.

Thanks for trying. But I'm sorry to inform you that that case is unrelated, due to the file being no longer in same width. What i said was. "DPI is unneeded when image size is similar in pixels" and 500 is clearly not 5000
Also, when you want to do a print test, you should provide both images entirely, not just screen-cap them.

I'm assuming the smaller file was the original and the larger file was blown up because it's pixelated, if that is so,The larger file actually does not contain any more information than the smaller file. even though the file size is larger.
You see how it becomes pixelated when you enlarge it like that?| you've actually could lose information zooming it in like that, depending on enlargement algorithm.

"And unless they want to print it directly from our file, without any sort of image program or reformatting. (Which is absurd)
They really should not be asking for it." <Quoting my last message

Again there is "zero" need for the artist's DPI setting once the image sizes are specified in DPI.
Unless gravity's printing team are complete computer illiterates who do not know how to use school level photoshop, re-format pictures to suit whatever size they are printing, and print directly from our file without knowing how to fit it to the media. there are no other reasons at all.

DPI here only affects "print size". a setting which would be lost pretty much as soon as it enters any sort of formatting, like putting it on a page, or just clicking "fit to media", etc. 

Commercial use or not they are the "same image."
and again, there are settings that would greatly impact the image quality that they didn't specify if they were worried about the print quality.
- Compression Ratio for JPG
- Not asking for compressed image formats
- Worrying about Color settings, Translating a CYMK to RGB or vice versa changes the colors slightly.
- Specifying what kind of printer they will use and how it's calibrated.

And I've saved the best for last: They asked for a 300 DPI setting for a PNG image. 
*facepalm* Really? Gravity?
(for those who do not know, PNG throws away the DPI setting anyway, and most programs replace it with something like 72 so yes, they just recieved "72dpi" images, this also goes to prove how pointless it was.)

These mistakes are looked down upon at bachelor degree level. much less professional. you could fail an assignment just because of this. The teacher would say "Oh? JPG?" take your disc and break it then throw it in the bin in front of your eyes write assignment not recieved. yes that really happens.
It would not be so bad if it was your average Joe. But Gravity is a media company. How can you be this incompetent in media?

TLDR: Gravity is incompetent.

PS: Thanks for the hat Oda!
 

 

at this point, its kinda useless for me to keep write about unrelated stuff from the op, but i will clarify one last time. When they ask for DPI, that means they want to print the image. IF they are just looking over image on monitor, YES DPI doesn't matter. Its not iRO's fault that they didn't received information, or didn't get the correct information till the last. That being said, neither jRO or kRO asked for file to be PNG. they didn't specify that. all they did was this.

 

Spoiler

002 section says 1920x1440 px, 300dpi, and under 3mb when you're "uploading" your file. Considering that they're looking for the printing quality, 300 dpi per 1 inch means more detail u can put in to. and they also specifiyed on section 003 that they may ask for original file for further use. and PNG doesnt drop ur dpi, dpi is dpi, dot per pixel, if you turn 1x1 inch 300 dpi pic into png, it will still contain 300dpi, where did you learn that? please demonstrate this is wrong and enlighten me. 

 

P.S. Sorry Oda for the off topic.

[CharAznable]

These mistakes are looked down upon at bachelor degree level. much less professional. you could fail an assignment just because of this. The teacher would say "Oh? JPG?" take your disc and break it then throw it in the bin in front of your eyes write assignment not recieved. yes that really happens.
It would not be so bad if it was your average Joe. But Gravity is a media company. How can you be this incompetent in media?

 

Its for submission. assignment is designed to make you learn what you shouldn't do outside of school, and at work. of course you shouldn't compare competition via school norm. If theres $100,000 prize contest, and they ask you for "PNG." would you still submit as original format? because you got failed grade from school? Please stop comparing professional revenue with school norm. What client asks for is what should be "normal" to do. Not some school logic. 

[WarlockFier]

^ xD

 

Also Oda's first post stated 72 dpi. So printing quality didn't really apply to iRO's entry I think. =) So chillllll!!

Though of course just in case for artist who actually care about their work being printed at a good quality, they would know better to draw at high resolution. I don't think anyone will get disqualified over this.

 

In the future if such situation arise I will try and ask the CMs to make it clearer. =)

[Zerion]

ceinchase

It's not about the people in this thread. or being "professional" It's about preserving file quality and gravity being nitpicky in areas that doesn't affect the images.
But since they never requested it in JPG, Then it's not as big a problem as it originally was.

However, The information below is what anyone who aspires to be a digital artist should know.

Files should be saved in file formats that do not damage the picture. (BMP,PSD,PNG,TIF,TGA,WPE...and so on.)
Work files and published web files are different.
Work files contain the full quality of an image
Files published on the web are compressed, often beyond repair to reduce bandwidth. (JPG, some GIFs)

To people who really appreciate the images, the full image work files should be requested
Similar to audiophiles who can tell the difference between a poorly compressed MP3, and Flac
 

Its for submission. assignment is designed to make you learn what you shouldn't do outside of school, and at work. of course you shouldn't compare competition via school norm. If theres $100,000 prize contest, and they ask you for "PNG." would you still submit as original format? because you got failed grade from school? Please stop comparing professional revenue with school norm. What client asks for is what should be "normal" to do. Not some school logic. 

That's exactly what i did. Check my submission, just like they wanted.

Now that they didn't ask for a JPG, It's a much better case.
If it was just Oda, then it's a perfectly understandable mistake. since it's unrealistic to expect everyone to have a working knowledge of file formats. Especially those who aren't digital artists.
http://en.wikipedia....ge_file_formats - but here's a link just in case.
 

Anyway, regarding the PNG issue you requested, This article explains it. The first part is exactly what i tried to say.
http://www.webdesign...he-myth-of-dpi/
 

Though i'd need to specify it more clearly, 
PNGs do not hold the DPI information in the image. It's embedded in the ICC Profile(For color management) as an optional attachment that is not always present. This shows how unnecessary the information is.  

Some programs do ignore them, and When my photoshopCC deals with an invalid ICC profile, it resets it to 96 dpi
I use OC1.1 for my drawings, and they do not have a Dpi setting at all.

I have nothing against PNGs, I only have an issue with asking for a DPI setting when the resolution is given in pixels. It's pointless, and counterproductive, it has reduced my submission's image quality that any artist should try to protect.
 
DPI only changes the print size, and will surely get overwritten anyway as soon as you do anything with it. if the image size in pixels remains constant DPI is meta information which can be changed freely without ....anything happening.
Anyone who wishes to be a digital artist should learn this.


PS: Thanks again for showing me the original request. Cleared a lot of things.

Edited by Zerion, 11 November 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[Zerion]

at this point, its kinda useless for me to keep write about unrelated stuff from the op, but i will clarify one last time. When they ask for DPI, that means they want to print the image. IF they are just looking over image on monitor, YES DPI doesn't matter. Its not iRO's fault that they didn't received information, or didn't get the correct information till the last. That being said, neither jRO or kRO asked for file to be PNG. they didn't specify that. all they did was this.

 

Spoiler

002 section says 1920x1440 px, 300dpi, and under 3mb when you're "uploading" your file. Considering that they're looking for the printing quality, 300 dpi per 1 inch means more detail u can put in to. and they also specifiyed on section 003 that they may ask for original file for further use. and PNG doesnt drop ur dpi, dpi is dpi, dot per pixel, if you turn 1x1 inch 300 dpi pic into png, it will still contain 300dpi, where did you learn that? please demonstrate this is wrong and enlighten me. 

 

P.S. Sorry Oda for the off topic.

300 dpi per 1 inch means more detail u can put in to
- More detail into an inch yes, but the overall image size would be smaller! Because the image size is constrained by it's measurement px! and you end up with the exact same image quality! 
- DPI does not affect the image quality when the size units are already measured in px! It only does when it's in a Real world measurement and not in px!

100px x 100px @ 100dpi = 10 000pixels
100px x 100px @ 999dpi = 10 000pixels
(Dpi has no effect)

1in x 1in @ 100dpi = 10 000pixels
1in x 1in @ 999dpi = 998 001pixels
(Dpi has huge effect)

Because they ask for it at 1920x1440px, PX, it has no effect.

and PNG doesnt drop ur dpi, dpi is dpi, dot per pixel,
-Sorry, bad choice of words on my part. it IGNORES the setting, as in drops it on the ground and walk away, not reduce the numbers
PNG drops the DPI setting! it ignores it entirely as in "the 300dpi gravity asked for in number 2", which as i keep saying: has NO EFFECT TO THE IMAGE WHATSOEVER. AND THEY SHOULD NOT ASK FOR THIS <This was my whole point all this time.
-It's not dot per pixel, It's dot per inch. DP"I" the "I" does not stand for pixels! If it did it would be a P.
-PNG is a LOSELESS capable format, it does not reduce image quality!

I'm not saying the pixels change in a PNG! I'm saying PNG often erases the DPI setting! SETTING! The one they ask for
IT IS NOT WRONG, IT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU ALL THIS TIME.

 if you turn 1x1 inch 300 dpi pic into png, it will still contain 300dpi, where did you learn that?

Try opening that PNG in paint, then draw something on it and save it, then open it back in photoshop.
See how the setting disappears just because some programs ignore it completely? yet it doesn't affect image quality whatsoever?

And before you say paint is stupid and does it to EVERY FILE:
Do that with a BMP and see how unlike the png it retains the dpi setting?
Same goes with many other file formats, like jpg

Where did I learn that?
When you've been doing something for over a decade, you tend to learn a few things.

Edited by Zerion, 11 November 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[CharAznable]

300 dpi per 1 inch means more detail u can put in to
- More detail into an inch yes, but the overall image size would be smaller! Because the image size is constrained by it's measurement px! and you end up with the exact same image quality! 
- DPI does not affect the image quality when the size units are already measured in px! It only does when it's in a Real world measurement and not in px!

100px x 100px @ 100dpi = 10 000pixels
100px x 100px @ 999dpi = 10 000pixels
(Dpi has no effect)

1in x 1in @ 100dpi = 10 000pixels
1in x 1in @ 999dpi = 998 001pixels
(Dpi has huge effect)

Because they ask for it at 1920x1440px, PX, it has no effect.

and PNG doesnt drop ur dpi, dpi is dpi, dot per pixel,
-Sorry, bad choice of words on my part. it IGNORES the setting, as in drops it on the ground and walk away, not reduce the numbers
PNG drops the DPI setting! it ignores it entirely as in "the 300dpi gravity asked for in number 2", which as i keep saying: has NO EFFECT TO THE IMAGE WHATSOEVER. AND THEY SHOULD NOT ASK FOR THIS <This was my whole point all this time.
-It's not dot per pixel, It's dot per inch. DP"I" the "I" does not stand for pixels! If it did it would be a P.
-PNG is a LOSELESS capable format, it does not reduce image quality!

I'm not saying the pixels change in a PNG! I'm saying PNG often erases the DPI setting! SETTING! The one they ask for
IT IS NOT WRONG, IT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU ALL THIS TIME.

 if you turn 1x1 inch 300 dpi pic into png, it will still contain 300dpi, where did you learn that?

Try opening that PNG in paint, then draw something on it and save it, then open it back in photoshop.
See how the setting disappears just because some programs ignore it completely? yet it doesn't affect image quality whatsoever?

And before you say paint is stupid and does it to EVERY FILE:
Do that with a BMP and see how unlike the png it retains the dpi setting?
Same goes with many other file formats, like jpg

Where did I learn that?
When you've been doing something for over a decade, you tend to learn a few things.

Again, 1920x1440 px was for web submission. You don't have to educate me about how px works. because again, they both require original file, and winner will be informed to send so. How many time do i have to make myself clear? DPI is printing quality and you know that. And when people ask for DPI and its from media company like you stated, that means they want to get the file in printing quality. like i mentioned, if artist intended to have 72 dpi on 1 inch, they would have worked and considered 72 dpi as their highest detail. where some decide to put 300 dpi and get more detail. I said that, and you're repeating that again. Really pointless at this point.

 

And Thanks for noticing mistake you made about PNG. 

[CharAznable]

Just to clarify the original requirement from the kRO HQ regards to RWC Fanart Contest, I will translate what they stated, and hope to end this pointless argument. And I give my apology to contestants, and CM for being rude, and unrelated posts. 

They asked for 1920x1440 px for web submission, and thats because they had to upload their pic to the fan art forum of their website, and it has size limitation which is 3 MB. So regardless of DPI or resolution they had their work as original, they wanted to compress it to no larger than 1920x1440, and 3mb. So if your original file was smaller than 1920x1440, you wouldn't be resizing or compressing. this would just apply to anyone who worked the file over that px. 

 

kRO also asked for 300 dpi, because winner of the contest will be required to send them original file which they worked on(size, format, whatever) and gravity have right to ask for it. hence why they started this event 3 month ago to inform contestant to work on a file in 300 dpi. They also stated it can be used for commercial use, and they will own its rights to be used so. which means it can be printed, and may be used for poster, in which case it would be great for them to have original file so they can manipulate it. 

 

They never specified which format they preferred. They never said JPG or PNG, or PSD or whatever. They just specified px for compression, and DPI from original file. 

That being said, it was really shabby process between iRO and kRO from the beginning, and this can be greatly approved when they worked together with great means of communication, and all i was trying to do was to clarify these missing point. I never intended to make it into fight but it happens sometimes. I give my apology to creative community, and hopefully i wouldnt make such a mistake again.

Edited by CharAznable, 11 November 2013 - 03:07 AM.

[Zerion]

And Thanks for noticing mistake you made about PNG. 

Sorry, i just checked, I never even said "drop", the only one that made that mistake was you.

"PNG throws away the DPI setting anyway, and most programs replace it with something like 72"
The point still stands

Just Check out the links and do the test.
I know you wouldn't want to thank me or acknowledge your mistakes now, But there's no need to.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"How many time do i have to make myself clear? DPI is printing quality and you know that."
NO. 

DPI DOES NOT AFFECT PRINTING QUALITY IN THIS CASE, This is what i'm trying to tell you.
I know this sounds wrong! But it's true. DPI has no effect here. There is no more detail in a 9999 dpi image than a 1dpi image for a picture already measured in px when "printing to the same size".
http://www.webdesign...he-myth-of-dpi/

YES, PRINTING.
 

This DPI value is only used to calculate your image measurements in pixels from a real world measurement.
Once the image measurements are already in pixels, there is no need for this.

 

PS, sorry for derailing the topic, but I want people to know this. It's a common mistake that people make.
and as I see that many people here might want to be digital artists, This is what they should learn
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TL;DR

I'm just trying to un-confuse any newbie who read char's post and thought anything I said was wrong.
They are all facts.

-"Image quality does not change with DPI when measurements are in px"
-"asking for an image at a certain DPI when giving it's measurements in px is useless"
-"asking for an image dpi without specifying the real world size is also useless"
-"Some file formats will even drop this needless and easily replaceable information, and it will never lose any image quality because of this."
-"The DPI setting is lost when the image is resized to fit the printer or resampled. which is what everyone does nowadays. "Fit to page"


Char isn't wrong most of the time too, he just didn't understand what I was trying to say.
I'm talking about a px case, while char's thinking in inches. so it's somewhat unrelated, but Char's points are still facts.

All these things that he said are true.
-DPI only affects printing quality when image measurements are in real world formats. like inches / cm and  not px (like in this case).
-DPI tells the printer "The image size" when printing, not quality.
(But pretty much anything you do with the picture in terms of printing format will overwrite your DPI, thus useless.)

 

Edited by Zerion, 11 November 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[CharAznable]

Sorry, i just checked, I never even said "drop", the only one that made that mistake was you.

"PNG throws away the DPI setting anyway, and most programs replace it with something like 72"
The point still stands

Just Check out the links and do the test.
I know you wouldn't want to thank me or acknowledge your mistakes now, But there's no need to.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"How many time do i have to make myself clear? DPI is printing quality and you know that."
NO. 

DPI DOES NOT AFFECT PRINTING QUALITY IN THIS CASE, This is what i'm trying to tell you.
I know this sounds wrong! But it's true. DPI has no effect here. There is no more detail in a 9999 dpi image than a 1dpi image for a picture already measured in px when "printing to the same size".
http://www.webdesign...he-myth-of-dpi/

YES, PRINTING.
 

This DPI value is only used to calculate your image measurements in pixels from a real world measurement.
Once the image measurements are already in pixels, there is no need for this.

 

We're really talking from different source. You're basing is all from iRO's requirement which is 1920x1440 in jpg, and what i'm basing from is kRO's requirement, which is 1920x1440 px under 3mb for "web submission," and original file has to be worked at 300dpi. so they want the artist to do consider measurement in inch. 

[Zerion]

We're really talking from different source. You're basing is all from iRO's requirement which is 1920x1440 in jpg, and what i'm basing from is kRO's requirement, which is 1920x1440 px under 3mb for "web submission," and original file has to be worked at 300dpi. so they want the artist to do consider measurement in inch. 

They just said 1920x1440px
notice the Px? not the in or the cm? 

it's still in pixels, they never mentioned the inch size. 

[CharAznable]

They just said 1920x1440px
notice the Px? not the in or the cm? 

it's still in pixels, they never mentioned the inch size. 

kRO mentioned web submission 1920x1440 px,
and original file to have 300dpi(so where inch isnt stated, anything thats been worked bigger than 1920x1440 can have larger inch size. like i said, A4 will have bigger px per inch than 1920x1440)

 

iRO mentioned Submission to be 1920x1440px.

without stating original file has to be in 300 dpi(instead they asked for 72 dpi.) 

 

iRO is branch server, and kRO is event host when it comes to RWC.

[Zerion]

There's still no inch measurements anywhere in sight. really. KRO OR IRO.
and there's no difference once the image size in px is the same.
a  1920x1440 image at 72dpi and 300dpi is the same image!
The DPI doesn't matter here and is unneeded

Here's a simple google search for anyone who questions this.
https://www.google.c..._sm=93&ie=UTF-8

[CharAznable]

There's still no inch measurements anywhere in sight. really. KRO OR IRO.
and there's no difference once the image size in px is the same.
a  1920x1440 image at 72dpi and 300dpi is the same image!
The DPI doesn't matter here and is unneeded

Here's a simple google search for anyone who questions this.
https://www.google.c..._sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Again. 1920x1440 px was for Web Submission. Which means its only for preview. There was no size restriction, 1920x1440 was maximum size limit for the submission through the forum. Original file can be "bigger" than whatever artist worked on. but all they wanted was to have 300 dpi from original file. Again, 1920x1440 was for web submission for preview. YES 1920x1440 at 72 dpi and 300 dpi is same on monitor. size in inch will be different. Web Submission was for preview, and they stated they may require original pic in 300 dpi. which means they have to work in 300 dpi setting. 

 

1)kRo wanted 1920 x 1440 px for "web submission on their fanart page" under 3mb, which means if the file is bigger, they cant store it on their page so you have to resize it, if the file is already smaller, don't matter.

 

2)iRO wanted 1920 x 1440 px for "submission" and didn't really specify anything further than that(apart from 72 dpi which is really bizarre to begin with.) And this is where i was trying to give them proper requirement, which clarify this questionable setting. 

 

This will be my last post regards to what's been argued. 

Edited by CharAznable, 11 November 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[zr0rieu]

back on topic:

 

Winners have been chosen for Korean RWC fanart contest.

[WarlockFier]

Thanks for sharing Zr0rieu!!! Wow they have a lot of awesome entries!! >.<

[Oda]

back on topic:

 

Winners have been chosen for Korean RWC fanart contest.

Beautiful stuff, though it is a bummer that of course that the thumbnail images are so small. 

[AhinaReyoh]

I saw that jRO and pRO had their winners up too, but too tired to go digging through their sites for links.

 

Are the final results decided sometime around the 20th? From what I can tell, that's around when RWC itself happens.

[waka]

that AB ... no patsu.....

[CharAznable]

pRO nominees 

[CharAznable]

And all the 1st 2nd and 3rd place from each server will be printed, and presented in the RWC festival held in Japan. 

[Oda]

Er...the crown does not work on classic. Hm.

[Kieri]

Can't you just make it costume for them then and add as a custom item?

[KamiKali]

They can't add things that's not in the pre-renewal item database. Costumes don't work on classic either.

[KamiKali]

I'm not 100% sure how it works with normal items, but I'm 100% sure that you can't have costumes on classic.

[Oda]

Name a headgear with "crown" in the name and I'll see if I can get it for you on Classic.