The title of this thread piqued my curiosity endlessly! Grief? Never! In an MMORPG, there are people who feel aggrieved? Shocking! I am aghast! How terribly groundbreaking... That in a faceless/nameless community full of ego's that someone feels aggrieved by the actions of another faceless/nameless entity? Egad! Whatever is the world coming to...
Oh wait, not forgetting that this is a forum board, and that the majority of people here will never understand the minutiae of sarcasm, i will spell it out for you, hopefully in words and illustrations that make it easier to understand: You're giving people an opportunity, to literally maim one another, without EVER having to be judged by any war crime tribunal, and you expect people to behave? It's not going to happen.
In this "epeen" driven community (Apologies to the ladies out there, my lack of erudite vernacular necessitates the utilisation of aforementioned terminology), people who are not interested in fighting are henceforth known as, collateral damage. After all, everyone's deaths are "for the greater good".
Haha, okay, enough of the satirical (yet painfully true) comments. Allow me to link you all to an interesting article regarding human nature, and the propensity to become inhumane, all in the name of science! This first link will bring you to a summary page of what happened there, and this second link will be for the more interested people who actually would like to see a powerpoint presentation of what happened! (Yes, for those of you who are wondering, it is Zimbardo's experiment.)
Now for those of you who actually took the effort (piqued curiosity like me), and clicked the link, i'm glad you did, and hope you can see why i posted that. "Deindividuation" is the keyword from that, and the link to the OP is the self-same reason. People who are hiding behind their online persona/facade are led to much more inhuman behaviour. How many of these people actually would do the same thing, to a friend? a neighbour? A sporting teammate? or a sporting rival? a fellow student? a colleague? Basically, anybody you interact with on a regular basis, face to face, would their behaviours there be the same as their behaviours here? Or, playing the devil's advocate (yes, that's a personal favourite of mine), is there even a NEED for people to be nice? Is playing games not an escape for people, from reality?
Let me get this out of the way, by no means, do i condone bullying, in any way, shape or form. In my area of work, i come across situations in which bullying has caused irreversible damage to people's psyche, on a regular basis. None of them, have been pleasant stories. However, there are some people in the online community *names are not allowed, i know", who are literally trying their best to aggravate everyone and anyone. I do wonder, about the people behind these facades sometimes...
Why all the introduction? I just want to say, if everyone in the community were to remember that behind every annoying character you meet, lies a real person. Who could in theory be a relative, friend or someone halfway across the globe from you... Would this topic even exist? Okay, now that the moralistic code is dealt with, onto the game mechanics. ) (You've done well, reading this far)
Take this opinion as you will from a person who farms and does not take colo seriously.
Part of why people farm instead of TRY as you put it, is they already know they don't stand a chance or don't have an interest in PvP. However, there are rewards given that better the pve experience as well as items desired such as union boxes and phantom stones.
As in another game I played PVP and PVE were not separated,which caused a conflict between the player-base. It wasn't until the developer acknowledged the problem, and the communities compromised that it got better.
It would solve a few issues if Jehoon had a third option, wherein farmers had a timed limit and no player enemies to fight. But instead, allow two teams to compete to clear their own side, awarding pve rewards.
Then make pvp mode award only pvp rewards. Lessen the connection by making farming less beneficial in this version. But enhance the benefits for player statue kills.
A concede button could work, only if a drawback were attached. Say 15 minute lockout.
Match-ups could work, but it would still need work to make it fair. Use the highest pvp rank to determine match-ups. People who are strong will match with those alike. Novices will battle novices.
Anything can be solved with compromise, not with accusations and insults.
MadamOnara, your post here suggests to me, maturity in thinking and action. Thank you for having the courage to post this, especially the last sentence, if there were a way to broadcast that sentence to all players! (wishful thinking), kudos to you.
Maturity in seeing that PVP/PVE should not mix, if they DO, it has got to be in only slightly beneficial, mostly non-consequential ways. For example, spinels, thief pots, and those daily rewards, yes. That's a good reward in itself, why? Because for the majority of people, they just want to go in there to fight other people, who want to fight. (I have guildies who just adore that place, if they could, they would live in that map. For those of you who do not know, i am in IcE, yes, i refer to my guildie, a certain assassin who would totally live in a purely pvp world.)
And its very unfair that people are building up hate towards players for playing the game the way it was intended to be played. I feel guilty everytime i kill someone on the map and honestly thats just not right.
Feliface/Chii: Your post was admirable, giving suggestions in all you did while standing up for your guildies! Again, happy to see such maturity being displayed, somehow, somewhere, a fairy lives again. ) Although, i would like to add... what is really, "just not right", is the fact you're able to kill someone on the jehoon map, as a priest in the first place... Somehow, that's just not right!
The real problem is that farming quests were put on a pvp map in the first place. Of course people want to farm, its the fastest way to get 5 defense runes. There should have been a way to enter the map outside of a pvp match for farming, then farmers and pvpers would be happy. Farming isn't going to be an issue after Wednesday anyway, since the event is ending.
The real issue with this area is gear balancing, which is only exacerbated by how much of a difference the runes make. When you try to fight against a team where you can only do 5 hp damage per hit of course you're going to stop caring, what's the point? I'm very interested in doing pvp in this area when I'm done with my runes, but I predict after Wednesday its going to be almost impossible to get an opponent unless you bring in 10 people yourself.
LadyRava, your post here was of particular interest to me, namely because of your bold (yet probably true) predictions! That jehoon will be a ghost town (seriously though, in the CORNER of payon? thank goodness for the scrolls). However, what i would really like to know is where and when did the GM/CM's say that the event was ending? As far as i was concerned, the only official release has been that the Jehoon Participation Event was ending (The one where you stand a chance to win some costume and mount)... But nothing about the event that gives the runes in game away as ending! Now, obviously, i do not follow the forums as closely as i should, or spend as much time on here as i should, that i might have missed something. However, if anyone would be so kind as to direct me to where it says that, i would be ever so grateful.
The other point raised here that was of particular interest was that of gear balancing. I think it's fair to say that most people recognise there is a difference between a new level 50, and one with chaos gear. However, where do you draw the line of balance? Do you, give everyone the same base stats as in colo? (That won't happen, and the reason why is the people who pride themselves on pvp will SPEND AS MUCH MONEY AS NECESSARY, to equip their character to be the best they can be in pvp, if you balance it out, why would they spend?) To extrapolate further, does that equate to WoE being balanced too? and that castle buffs will work only in the WoE map? Where does anyone draw the line? ALL PVP only affects PVP, and all PVE affects only PVE? Should the game go completely to a perpetually open PVP map?
As loathe as i am to admit it, FlukeSG's suggestion has some merit. Now, with the system already installed, if people all have to solo queue and are randomly grouped (1st/3rd/5th/7th/9th person to queue in one team, and 2nd/4th/6th/8th/10th in the other)[alternatively, what flukesg said, after 10 people queue, randomise the groups and go!], and run, there would be an element of the unknown in each of those runs. However, in that were to happen, all benefits of any sort have to be removed (other than perhaps those dailies), and perhaps trading seals for extra consumables. Obviously, then, that would defeat the original purpose proposed by Kurohono, to have 5-man (guild) team fight in a pvp-type event. Although, that could always be run by the GM's as special events (just saying it's a possibility, although i understand that's more work for them).
Alright, enough of my walls-of-text, for now.