91 replies to this topic

[Emichio]

I'd like to see a topic about leveling in general. The biggest problem is that leveling is mind-numbingly boring. The entire game is built around forcing you to fight things that aren't a challenge, solo, forever. That's the main reason people aren't leveling - there's no fun in it anymore... it's an absolute chore.

Welcome to Ragnarok Online, since you are such a new player you shouldnt be in this thread tho !

Edited by Jaibuu, 02 November 2010 - 10:53 AM.

[Stalkerness]

Since there is no thread for MVPs...

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, FIX MVP MAGIC ATTACK.

35k HP and I get 1 shotted my Mistress' JT. I get 1-shotted by a Storm Gust from Garm and Stormy.

Something's wrong there.

Elemental Armor is also broken, otherwise I might stand a chance. In addition, they're still 1-shotting me even with my Alice Valk. >_>

Added emphasis. If you are taking 35k from mistress' JT, something is definitely horrendously wrong. And its most likely your fault.

My first ET run after renewal, I walked into mistress wearing a zeph silk, garg buckler, and a DR. She JT'd me for about 10k (on an AB with 12k hp). I promptly switched to an immune and paid attention, and had no problems. Infact, unless you're wearing a BG set (w/ aqua & dr), how are you even amp'ing her damage that high?

(though we should have a discussion on mvp's storm gust and the odd way it is able to instant kill)

[Ralis]

Added emphasis. If you are taking 35k from mistress' JT, something is definitely horrendously wrong. And its most likely your fault.

My first ET run after renewal, I walked into mistress wearing a zeph silk, garg buckler, and a DR. She JT'd me for about 10k (on an AB with 12k hp). I promptly switched to an immune and paid attention, and had no problems. Infact, unless you're wearing a BG set (w/ aqua & dr), how are you even amp'ing her damage that high?

(though we should have a discussion on mvp's storm gust and the odd way it is able to instant kill)

I can take it about half the time. The damage does anywhere from 500 ~ 1000 a hit.

500 I can take and survive, but when it gets to 700 Mistress wins.

The only things I can think of being "my" fault would be not having a high MDef. I've talked to other people and they've had the same problem, so I'm not exactly sure what I'd be doing wrong here and why it seems to go a lot better for you.

Edited by Ralis, 01 November 2010 - 10:32 PM.

[Mwrip]

Welcome to Ragnarok Online, since you are such a player you shouldnt be in this thread tho !

I shouldn't be in a thread discussing what's wrong with Renewal to discuss what's wrong with Renewal?

[Emichio]

I shouldn't be in a thread discussing what's wrong with Renewal to discuss what's wrong with Renewal?

Oops, i meant new player. since you didn't know yet that Ragnarok Online is about grinding :x

[Mwrip]

You completely didn't read my post. RO's always been about grinding yes, but it was about taking on challenging monsters, and party play. I 99/70ed in places like NI, DG, and Bio pre-renewal, where you needed parties that knew what they were doing, where there was constant danger, and where the exp reward matched the danger. Yes, it was grinding, but there was actual challenge to it, with significantly increased rewards for taking on especially difficult challenges.

Renewal is about 1 shotting monsters way beneath you by yourself, because that's the only way to get good exp.

I'm not complaining that the game is a grind, I'm complaining that the focus of that grind changed from taking on challenges and playing together with people (the second M in MMORPG), to soloing things that aren't a threat, replacing fun battles with the chore of endlessly killing monsters that will never really hurt you, using methods that require no skill, while playing completely alone at all times. The game was NOT like that pre-Renewal.

Edited by Mwrip, 01 November 2010 - 10:51 PM.

[Silver]

What ever changes you make, please do not give up on the original ideas. Those ideas are what made this game enjoyable for players like me and I will not like it if RO is run like a democracy and if it becomes like any other MMORPG out there in the developers' attempt to make everyone happy. Whatever new changes were introduced in renewal definately had an original purpose which might be introducing a new style of playing a class or something else new, and I definately like this. To me the game now feels fresh and I am excited to discover new combinations and stuff. I am sure many people appreciate this. Only such things will push the game forward in the long run and help RO continue to provide a different experience against other MMOs. The game should be balanced yes but I just want the developers to have the last say about balancing and not let the community decide it like JRO maybe. They should definately listen to everyone and take suggestions but please do not spoil the game.

Regarding woe attendance, I haven't played the last two WOE because I was leveling my High Wiz to 99 and later my guild wasn't ready to WOE yet. It wasn't because I now hate WOE in renewal or something. I am sure the case was similar for many other people.

To all those people who are complaining about heal as an HP or as a low/mid-level AB with/without good gears: It will definately balance out at 150 but do not forget that equips/stats matter. Here is some information: My High Wiz in pre-renewal (with 99 int, +5 SoD, +6 MoonRH, 2 rings , Black Frame Glasses) had 1200 Matk. With these same equips, my Matk now is 550!! Now should I or should I not complain? Tetra Vortex does 30*4 times my Matk in damage. Wouldn't this be op if my Matk was the old 1200(218%!!)? Yes it would. I think things have been scaled down a bit so that at max level with average gears/buffs etc, it would balance and not be op.

[Puppet]

Party system need to be changed to something like

2 people 70% of exp one would get from soloing to both and if you have FULL party all in share you get 100% of the exp you would get from soloing, I think that would fix the problem of no one wanting to party or party hard to find cause with such scheme poeple would want to party over solo

and Heal nerf really need to undo or atlest the current nerf reduce to half of what the nerf is trying to heal some one with 10k hp on priest is royal pain in the ass now, and 2nd classes can get 10k easy for get avout try to keep up with trans or 3rd classes hp, And it balancing out at 150 is of little help or concern to priest and hp.

Edited by Puppet, 02 November 2010 - 08:19 AM.

[Emichio]

Party system need to be changed to something like

2 people 70% of exp one would get from soloing to both and if you have FULL party all in share you get 100% of the exp you would get from soloing, I think that would fix the problem of no one wanting to party or party hard to find cause with such scheme poeple would want to party over solo

and Heal nerf really need to undo or atlest the current nerf reduce to half of what the nerf is trying to heal some one with 10k hp on priest is royal pain in the ass now, and 2nd classes can get 10k easy for get avout try to keep up with trans or 3rd classes hp, And it balancing out at 150 is of little help or concern to priest and hp.

So in a 12 players party you think everyone should get 100%?, increased to 1200% EXP per monsters? D:, that would make people gain about 400% what they would gain soloing, That would be bad :<.
In any case, I think the total exp should be between 230~300%, currently its 200%.

[Puppet]

So in a 12 players party you think everyone should get 100%?, increased to 1200% EXP per monsters? D:, that would make people gain about 400% what they would gain soloing, That would be bad :<.
In any case, I think the total exp should be between 230~300%, currently its 200%.

at this point it better then the broke party system we have cause even with all the people we have on the server parties are still rare

[Doddler]

Obviously the comments in this thread suggests that there should be a party and leveling topic created as well.

[Clogon]

Yeah definitely those 2 topics. Lvling and partying is a major part of RO. I have plenty of feedback on the PVM aspect.

[Mwrip]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with many classes IS the party system. Casters and support types do best in significantly-sized parties (more than 2), and Renewal is nothing but a solo game. That's not to say their aren't balance problems that need addressing, but they pale in comparison to telling everyone that prefers party play to take a hike.

If I want a single player action RPG... well, D3's coming out in a few months. Please address this. The balance issues greatly pale in comparison to making this an MMORPG.

[Doddler]

I've made a separate thread for it, please take your discussions over there. If there is need for additional threads, bring it up here, but otherwise I would prefer if there were no more posts in this topic.

Edited by Doddler, 02 November 2010 - 01:17 PM.

[Taper]

How about level 99 mercenaries that you get from Lucky Boxes? They still retain old stats and aren't as effective as they used to be, partially due to the higher HIT needed for monsters ingame.

[Emichio]

How about level 99 mercenaries that you get from Lucky Boxes? They still retain old stats and aren't as effective as they used to be, partially due to the higher HIT needed for monsters ingame.

You can use them on low level monsters just fine, its just that they arent as good as before.

[Rumm]

I'm concerned with Renewals loss of PVP/WoE/WPS/Usrc cordination ability. Previously, Magnetic Earth/Land Protector shuffling with songs, sacrifice, and priest buffs where the main game of preRenewal Defense. Now that very popular element of the game (wps/ursc is the amoung largest publicity act RO has ever had) is gone. Offensive skills are off the charts, but group/team defense? It's down the drain.

The main issues are;

Magnetic Earth: Doesn't Block Warlock Magic, thus is useless. Also helpless against Crazy Vines and Earth Drive.
Maelstrom: Blocks some Warlock magic, however has a very small duration and size. Not confirmed if removed by Crazy Vines or Earth Drive.
Neutral Barrier: Is the best defense to Warlock magic and Ranged attacks, however has a small area and a long cool down making it too unreliable.
Defending Aura Via Sacrifice: In the last testing I did on Yggdrasil this did not reduce AoE magic. Is this intended?

These skills appear to be the core of defensive/team fights; one of the MAIN selling points of this game. They need to be modified to salvage a vital element of RO gameplay. If the AoE defensive skills are too small, they make any group using them extremely easy prey to cursed circle and deep sleep. So easy in fact that it negates the AoE defensive skills value if the group has no room to maneuver.

Suggestions:
Magnetic Earth: Make it Block Earth Strain, possibly Jack Frost as well.
Maelstrom: Expand the area to 7x7. Extend duration to 1 minute.
Neutral Barrier: Lower cool down to 15seconds, increase area to 5x5 from 3x3
Defending Aura Via Sacrifice: Allow it to reduce Magic again (it may already do this again, not sure)


Thanks, that's my 2...er 4 cents.

Edited by Rumm, 03 November 2010 - 06:14 AM.

[Taper]

Shouldn't a new thread regarding Renewal drop rates be added for discussion? Because I really hate how you're penalized on drops if you're just few levels above/below the monster, eventually ending up with 40% drop penalty while inversely you're rewarded with extra xp if you're few levels above/below the monster.

With drop penalty, you're also lowering the amount of OC loot a player can sell to make zeny for the future levelling methods that are rewarded by fighting stronger monsters that obiviously will do more damage.

[Kitten]

Would it be possible to discuss monster magic defense, specifically MvPs?

While MVPing with various classes in the party, I've noticed that classes such as Sura and Genetic are still capable of excellent damage (as expected). Melee still holds up quite well while MVPing.

However... It seems many MVPs (and regular monsters, too) have had substantial magic defense boosts. This results in casters (let's use Warlocks as an example) having little chance of competing when strong melee classes are present... And in other cases, having a difficult time doing enough damage when they're acting as the primary killer. Of course it depends very much on what MVP is being killed, the low tier ones are still quite killable with magic.

On a recent Endless run I watched a Lord Knight consistently beating out a Warlock simply because he could spam CS for damage while also tanking, while the Warlock was stuck with waiting on her fixed cast time, after cast delay, and experiencing a huge damage reduction due to the magic defense of the target. This is a very well geared Warlock who has reduced her variable cast time to nearly the maximum while still sporting a good amount of luck for the added magic attack (wearing a +9 Staff of Destruction). This just feels remarkably unbalanced.

Perhaps proposed adjustments to cast times will help remedy this... But I do believe magic defense of monsters should be looked into.

[MeisterKirisaki]

How about a thread regarding items / gear?

I'm sure such a thread is needed.


Example: Odin's Set
The DEF/mDEF bonus from the set should be adjusted to fit into Renewal.

Pre-Renewal
Magni's Cap 5 DEF
Odin's Blessing 6 DEF
Stone Buckler 3 DEF
DEF maximum Set Bonus (5+6) DEF = 11 DEF
Total DEF: (14+11) DEF = 25 DEF
DEF boost from Set: ~78%

Renewal
Magni's Cap 9 DEF
Odin's Blessing 53 DEF
Stone Buckler 45 DEF
DEF maximum Set Bonus (5+6) DEF = 11 DEF
Total DEF: (107+11) DEF = 118 DEF
DEF boost from Set: ~10%


DEF gained from the Ice Titan Card should be adjusted to Renewal rules too, it doesn't make sense to change the whole DEF/mDEF system and still using the old set effects.

[Kadelia]

Yeah it should be like DEF+25 for being a swordie and DEF+40 for completing the set, so that the set total is 172 DEF on a swordie with the set (as opposed to say Valkyrja Shield + Meteo plate + magni's or something, which is 164 DEF)

[Miii]

There should be a topic about expanded classes as well =x

[kogimon1]

If doddler has a chance to, could you make a seperate thread for mercenaries and what to do with them.

[Mwrip]

There should be a topic about expanded classes as well =x

We're getting their next jobs in 2012. Seriously... it's 2 updates away in kRO, and we're more than a year behind.

I think in the meantime, they should be able to do a short quest to break the 99 cap (since they're currently *COMPLETELY* removed from the game since they're eternally stuck at 99), and have it simply store their jxp, with the "you can't level twice" rule ignored specifically for them. At least this would make it kinda sorta possible to play one, instead of Gravity saying "hey, you play mainly expanded classes? Bye... see ya in 2 years!"

That being said... I'm not getting my hopes up, at all. I already deleted my linker.

Edited by Mwrip, 10 November 2010 - 10:40 AM.

[Brindizer]

It's not necessarily Renewal feedback, but we need a place to talk about Battlegrounds and the problems associated with it. I had a thread going in the Proposals section.