123 replies to this topic

[Prodigy]

I would just like to point out that my AB Heal 1 does ~600 and my Heal 10 does ~2.1k. While I love the strong lvl 1 heal for my non priest class, I do wonder why Heal doesn't scale well with skill level. Also, sure we got Renovatio, High Heal, Caluceo Heal, Epicleses and Sanctuary but:
1) 4 of those skills, we don't get until we're well in the job ~20+
2) Sanctuary is unreliable in places with Demon/Undead monsters (like Magma 2)
3) Renovatio isn't that effective for people with low maxHP <-- At least make the duration longer so we cast it less often.
4) Caluceo Heal is only useful parties of 3 or more. And even then, if the tank is tanking things properly, this isn't needed. Caluceo Heal should at least be 1.5x stronger than Heal in my opinion.

[Beata]

Arch Bishop:
Renovatio:
As stated above, it has a very long cast time and it only lasts 90 seconds to be really efficient.

Example Fix: Have it fixed cast time reduced to 1.5 sec and make it last 3 times longer than its actual duration perhaps.

Epiclesis
After you cast Epiclesis your character will be put in battle position similar to the effect you get after casting Kyrie Eleison on a party member. I find it unnecessary.


~~~~~

Priest:
Magnus Exorcismus:
Please reduce its fixed cast time, its way too lengthy now.

[Tolrin]

I see alot of complaints about heal in this thread.

I made a level 105 arch bishop on Yggdrasil server before Valkyrie server got renewal, mainly soloing or mobbing with a lord knight. I never felt like I had any problems with heal, and I easily hit over 2k heals around level 95~ as high priest. I think a large portion of the complaint about healing stems from players not using KE effectively. I've seen a lot of priests on Valkyrie server still casting assumptio and heal when casting KE blocks significantly more damage than a heal restores in the same time frame. On a 30k hp rune knight, KE10 blocks 9000 damage. Using this and renovatio and the occasional heal is more than enough to keep someones HP high in most situations, and even then safety wall 10 is an extremely strong fall back for damage prevention.

I do agree that renovatio has too much fixed cast time, but part of that may be not having access to sacrament yet, which will significantly reduce that.

[Doddler]

The SP recovery thing might be due to dropping below 120 int as a bishop, as sp recovery rate increases drastically above this point.

[Stalkerness]

Also, sure we got Renovatio, High Heal, Caluceo Heal, Epicleses and Sanctuary but:
1) 4 of those skills, we don't get until we're well in the job ~20+

What?

I have all of those (High Heal 1, Epi 1, Col3) at job 19, and I have 4 unspent points. High Heal 5 does not actually seem useful, so I'm content with level 1 for now. Maybe you need to re-examine the order you took your skills?

[Puppet]

Heal nerf need to be undone or atlest reduced to half of what the nerf it now, to make healing people expectable especial for the Priest and HP, considering character have the ability to have much higher HP now. and SP regen on the whole need to be put back to old formula or at lest a better one cause SP regen is terrible now even with mag even Archbishop are running out sp regularly how you think the other classed feel with less int?

Renovatio: make the cast time shorter and make it last longer at lest as long as max party heal,bless,agi skill

Edited by Puppet, 02 November 2010 - 08:43 AM.

[Tolrin]

SP regeneration has not changed with renewal.

I seriously have to question the amount of thought and testing some people are putting into their feedback when I read stuff like this.

[NackOSack]

I think the skill tree is way way too strict, i feel as though, as a battle arch bishop, i have the choice of getting duple light 10 and eucharistica... or everything else.
I realise the battle priest side of priesting is the minority, but with duple light now, it feels as though the game is suggesting the battle route again. The skills i'd like to access personally (i know that may not count for much) would be:
Oratio
Expiato
Duple light
Eucharistica

On the way to get eucharistica, i'm getting a ton of skills i'm simply not interested in as a battle priest. I mean, yes, some of them are nice skills. Highness heal is real nice and the tree skill is pretty damn sweet, however, i just cant see myself using them actively enough to actually HAVE them. Now i realise that this may not be the case for a lot of people, but really, i dont like the idea of wanting a skill and instantly losing 37 skill points for it. lol after duple light that leaves me with a wonderful 2 points to maybe max one of the skills i didn't want to begin with...

Also, i have a problem with oratio, i realise that maybe it would be fairly overpowered without a cast time or with a really short one or something, but with a 3 second cast time, it makes the skill pretty much bad to use. With the new way leveling works (monsters of your level or a little higher that you kill fairly fast over and over - compared to large monsters that are slightly more difficult to kill for high exp) it really doesnt have any great value to stand and cast the skill on a mob of monsters where i could have killed half the mob by the time i was done casting. It especially doesnt have any great value on maps where another element would be better or even those ridiculously sparely populated maps where one monster seems to stumble drunkenly onto your screen every 3 or 4 minutes. The skill, outside of mvping simply doesnt have any practical PVM use with the new way leveling works. Maybe this isn't the case within pvp, but honestly i could think of other skills that are far more threatening to the balance of the game *cough 32k dragon breath cough* lol. I realise that the skill could be used for andoramus priests and ME priests as well and perhaps it would allow for them to kill things in one ME or something. If that's what the skill's for then i tip my hat to the ME priest and step back from this complaint. I'm OK with that, it's just a nice skill that i'd like to make use of, that's all.

I'd also like for duple light to have one of those little timers on the far right of the screen. Me and my guildies (all battle priests) are dozy as hell and tend to forget to put it back up. The icon would help a little bit with that! Oh, i'm told expiato needs an icon too.

Thanks for reading etc!

Edited by NackOSack, 02 November 2010 - 06:06 PM.

[chiz]

hi i'm a battle bishop too.

I hear the skill 'Expiatio' is not implemented yet because there is no such 'defense bypassing' mechanics. could anyone confirm this? would this skill apply in WoE when breaking emps?

this may not be possible but i think 'Duple Light' should be a castable buff on others. Even so, the Rune Knight's 'Enchant Blade' or Sorcerer's 'Striking' provides better buffs. Since bishops were not given new buffs to use (except for Sacrament) we have to rely on our non-transcendent priest class skills such as 'Impositio Manus'. This skill should be buffed for bishops... +25 atk is just not enough for 3rd class. I think this lack of buffs in addition to the 'Assumptio' nerf makes it undersirable to party with bishops with the party exp inefficiencies.

I've also played as an ME bishop before. the skill 'Judex' is lacking in fire power. For example, i don't think one can kill a Necromancer with the Judex skill while facing 2 Zombie Slaughters, Quagmire, and Critical Wound. Similarly, Adoramus had limited uses for me because it had a pathetic damage output in WoE.

Silentium is located within the 3rd tree, and is a big investment. To match the Maestro/Wanderer's deep sleep skill, the success rate should be close to 80% if not 100%.

I hope you will consider these points. Thank you

Edited by chiz, 03 November 2010 - 09:36 PM.

[Deluhi]

Signum Crusis has become a joke with Renewal and the new def formula.

Why would I waste 10 skill points as a BP on a skill that only has a 63% chance of succeeding for 30-50 more dmg on undead and demon monsters? Mace Mastery in comparison is a premanent + 30 attack increase without the need of wasting SP, hoping for it to actually succeeding and then deal with the after cast delay. I'd rather skill Gloria instead now on any kind of BP.

Pre-Renewal Signum Crusis added a good 100-200+ more dmg on most mid to high def undead and demon monsters.

Seeing as only BP usually have this skill and taking into account that we don't have any active attack skills (Bash, Double Strafe, etc.) or mobbing skills (Bowling Base, Cart Revolution, etc.) there is not much room to make it overpowered or unbalanced, but it should defenitely be changed to become useful once again.

[Frappuccino]

am i the only one that thinks safety wall needs readjusting?

this mostly stems from using it in pvp (or trying to) to block skills like gfist. now it seems to just act like a ground targeted KE, but the "HP" of the SW is too low to be considered anything but useless. gfist ate the SW like nothing.

pneuma, a FIRST CLASS skill, is currently more useful because of

a. no cast
b. no KE effect
c. AoE blocking
d. most third skills are ranged

buff SW imo.

[SethTheSecond]

KRO had made a change to safety wall that if the last hit removed the safety wall, the overflow damage will not be passed onto the player/target in the safety wall. It would remove the safety wall, but the damage will not be passed on. I hope IRO will get this implementation soon.

[NackOSack]

hi i'm a battle bishop too.

I hear the skill 'Expiatio' is not implemented yet because there is no such 'defense bypassing' mechanics. could anyone confirm this? would this skill apply in WoE when breaking emps?
Even so, the Rune Knight's 'Enchant Blade' or Sorcerer's 'Striking' provides better buffs. Since bishops were not given new buffs to use (except for Sacrament) we have to rely on our non-transcendent priest class skills such as 'Impositio Manus'. This skill should be buffed for bishops... +25 atk is just not enough for 3rd class. I think this lack of buffs in addition to the 'Assumptio' nerf makes it undersirable to party with bishops with the party exp inefficiencies.


Silentium is located within the 3rd tree, and is a big investment. To match the Maestro/Wanderer's deep sleep skill, the success rate should be close to 80% if not 100%.

I agree

Signum Crusis has become a joke with Renewal and the new def formula.

Why would I waste 10 skill points as a BP on a skill that only has a 63% chance of succeeding for 30-50 more dmg on undead and demon monsters? Mace Mastery in comparison is a premanent + 30 attack increase without the need of wasting SP, hoping for it to actually succeeding and then deal with the after cast delay. I'd rather skill Gloria instead now on any kind of BP.

Pre-Renewal Signum Crusis added a good 100-200+ more dmg on most mid to high def undead and demon monsters.

Seeing as only BP usually have this skill and taking into account that we don't have any active attack skills (Bash, Double Strafe, etc.) or mobbing skills (Bowling Base, Cart Revolution, etc.) there is not much room to make it overpowered or unbalanced, but it should defenitely be changed to become useful once again.

Did they lower the success chance on signum too? Because i feel as though it NEVER works now? I mean, sometimes it would just be really unlucky, but i honestly feel that post renewal, not only does it do very little, it succeeds even less.

[Deluhi]

Did they lower the success chance on signum too? Because i feel as though it NEVER works now? I mean, sometimes it would just be really unlucky, but i honestly feel that post renewal, not only does it do very little, it succeeds even less.

I have the same feeling too. It happened to me quite often that I had to cast Signum Crusis 3 times before it actually succeeded, which means a waste of 105 SP. Or to put it into another perspective, a first time success has become rare for me.

Pre-Renewal, I never encountered such difficulties with this skill.

[Xellie]

I've only glanced over some of the complaints in this thread but I want to throw mine out there.

Heal
It doesn't affect my ability as a tankmage. I'm fine with mobbing as I always have been, what it does is affect the ability to keep my partymates alive. To anyone preaching about mixing up heals C.heal, High heal sanc etc, please remember that all of those have a cast time. As such party members who get themselves in difficulty end up having to pot whilst being healed - this means they could just as well solo for about the same cost and a lot more exp. The heal formula definately needs revising. I am a well geared AB and I do around 2.3~2.4k heals at level 120 with a god item.

Renovatio
Do we all realize there's a kafra shop item that does the same job for longer and better pretty much? The cast time is too long and the duration is too short.

Praefation
Maybe this is just me but I feel the cooldown is a little too long to be useful. I can understand it having a cooldown to prevent spamming to create a near-invincible party, but I don't think it needs to be more than about 15 seconds?

Magnus Exorcismus
Since it's inefficient for most classes to party an AB to level, ABs turning to ME can solo a bit but the cast time really is too much. I think it needs to be adjusted to be shorter so that solo ABs can have a better shot at keeping up with their peers. The number of monsters we can level on solo are a lot more limited than other classes so I think it would be a fair compensation to be able to kill them decently fast without having to use too many white pots.

Oh and related: I think the SP formula changed somewhat, I've always used sleips and high int and since renewal my regen has felt really sluggish. The loss of my job bonus would have been more than made up by the sleips +25 int so I do feel like something is up with that.

[Brindizer]

I used to have Signum Crucis on my combo champion and it indeed was awesome. It increased my damage by quite a bit when combined with demon bane.
Now though, the Crucis doesn't even really do anything.
Lots of demon and undead monsters love to be blinded by things a Crusader does. I suggest Signum Crucis also having a chance at blinding undeads and demons as this will allow easier time evading and hitting them. It's really hard for bishops and suras to get adequate flee even with high agility.
Secondly, it shouldn't reduce their defense but rather increase their damage taken. This'll flow more nicely with the Renewal mechanics.

Expiatio could work in a similar fashion, but I think it should only work on shadow/undead properties and demon/undead races. It would be doubly effective on enemies that are demon/shadow or undead/undead. Or perhaps the common shadow/undead. Magnus Exorcismus works for ghosts, so why not ghosts too?

Last quip about heal --

It's currently adding your magic attack as a solid number, uneffected by meditatio. With no staff and very little gear, I heal for 1893 constantly.
With a +7 divine cross, I heal anywhere from 2050 to 2250. This variance is about 200 even when my staff provides 259 magic attack. Something's gotta be wrong somewhere. Shouldn't the bonuses from Meditatio and other gears be affecting the total amount? This cannot be the case where a 250 matk weapon only adds that much as a solid number to your heal. I wouldn't deal anywhere near as much magical damage without this staff on, yet I barely heal for more.

Edited by Brindizer, 06 November 2010 - 03:55 PM.

[Akin]

It's come to my attention that % increases in MATK (whether through skills, gear or cards), doesn't affect healing skills. Is this true? It doesn't seem right because a HW using Amp gets an increase in Heal.

Either way, if it's true, it's dumb and should be changed.

[Mwrip]

Amping a heal is pointless due to the cast time and SP involved (just heal twice instead), but it is odd that amp works and +%matk gear doesn't.

That definitely needs to be fixed, especially considering how weak casters already are without taking a further hit from some of their gear flat out not functioning.

[Miii]

Magnus Exorcismus
Since it's inefficient for most classes to party an AB to level, ABs turning to ME can solo a bit but the cast time really is too much. I think it needs to be adjusted to be shorter so that solo ABs can have a better shot at keeping up with their peers. The number of monsters we can level on solo are a lot more limited than other classes so I think it would be a fair compensation to be able to kill them decently fast without having to use too many white pots.

This this this! ME cast time is just terrible, I would love if they could low it a bit @__@

[mooMOOmoo]

This this this! ME cast time is just terrible, I would love if they could low it a bit @__@

This this this too! With a cast time of 15 seconds, this is the slowest casting skill in all of RO.
Even Wizard's big AOE spells max out at 12 seconds only.

[Lucentos]

For me there nothing wrong to be Tanking Priest, as there enought Stat and/or equipment incoming DPS sinkers. IMHO there are fault of tanking classes(Swordies as Vit Tanks, Thieves as Flee Tanks and Monk branch as antiUndead) in their ability to provide significant difference(2-2.5 times better than corresponding from other classes) vs nontanking classes in DPS and/or Incoming heal buffing capability.

[Kadnya]

Tanking as a priest isn't much problem for me, but I do think that heal needs a bit unnerfing. While for some classes KE is an okish replacement f some heas, not all charas are rune knights, the class with the highest HP ingame. A small increase in heal would be ok.

Renovatio is a cool concept, but has too long cast time and too short duration to be useful. A cast time of 1 second with a duration of 3~5 minutes would make it an useful buff worth to keep on (and viable to keep on in a medium party).

[Chiisu]

Thanks for Sacrament. I'd have to say everything else sucks. I level with a Rune Knight basically all I do is keep him buffed and heal spam when I can. For some odd reason we still use 15,000 mastella every night to level. I understand you make money by selling everything I can do to players but please throw us a bone. In WoW I could single handedly keep a whole party alive in Heroic Dungeons. I come here and play an Arch Bishop and feel like a walking yellow potion. This is whack. Jus my thoughts on renewal so far.

[sasha000]

You used mastelas even before renewal, concept didn't change, also level with an RK, and i have to say, heal is okay. It saves money, but you still have to spend some. I don't think i spent 15.000 masts since renewal started.
Suggestions:

- decrease renovatio fixed cast to 1sec. Extend duration...double it maybe?
- a bit of a decrease (say 5sec) in praefatio cd would be okay

[Chiisu]

Well I am level 132. I guess it's the price I pay. I can't stand leveling like a snail although I do feel like a masochist for playing this game sometimes. No exaggeration though we spend about 1800 mastella every battle manual =.=;; I'm just asking for better tools to do my job. I'm curious what kind of heals do Jro Arch Bishops toss out. How different at all is our heal formula compared to theirs ?

Edited by Chiisu, 16 November 2010 - 01:16 AM.