144 replies to this topic

[Tiduspeco]

Lol I think that involves every class...

Well to an extent yes. All tanks need their threat generating buff. But there's no reason knights should be forced to spend so many points on 1 attack and have every other attack generate so little threat.

[Meconopsis]

Yeah that's a problem I stated in my last post here. There are so many questions that comparing Knight and Warrior is not just enough. Although they're the easiest to compare, we have to involve monks and beastmasters because honestly, they're the 4 tanks in the game.

 

Now, like I stated earlier, the key problem is the tools the classes have. We can state off a list of what each class has, for offensive, defensive, and utility-wise. Then we go about the gear, the stat bonuses, and lastly, the overall design philosophy. What do you want each class to do?

 

Sadly, since I don't play Knight or Warrior or Beastmaster, I'm not at liberty to make that list. But I do know Knights and Monks still need help where Warriors and Beastmasters excel at.

[Tiduspeco]

Yeah that's a problem I stated in my last post here. There are so many questions that comparing Knight and Warrior is not just enough. Although they're the easiest to compare, we have to involve monks and beastmasters because honestly, they're the 4 tanks in the game.

 

Now, like I stated earlier, the key problem is the tools the classes have. We can state off a list of what each class has, for offensive, defensive, and utility-wise. Then we go about the gear, the stat bonuses, and lastly, the overall design philosophy. What do you want each class to do?

 

Sadly, since I don't play Knight or Warrior or Beastmaster, I'm not at liberty to make that list. But I do know Knights and Monks still need help where Warriors and Beastmasters excel at.

Yes exactly. I would have loved to included Monk and BM in this post but sadly I don't know enough about them to make judgement.

[PandeeChio]

Yes SB gives a lot of threat, but that's not the point. That's basicaly saying you HAVE to waste 15 skill points if you want to gain threat. No class should force you to do that in order to play your role.

Other idea is to add same kind of effect from sb "extra threath" to other kingt specific skills

[Chocs]

Your main role as a tank is to simply have higher threat than the DPS. How much threat you generate above that is just for show.

 

If Knights get their little niche and are harder to kill in comparison to a Warrior, as long as they have threat to be comfortably higher than DPS, attack power is not a real issue for a tank. The big problem is that tank Warriors are in fact simultaneously more sturdy AND deal more damage than Knights at the moment.

 

In the matter of DPS Knights; they have gained the ability to offtank without sacrificing DPS skills... how much the current skill tree works for that in practice I have no clue about. Their low weapon attack makes me think Concentration needs a boost, probably something like a high chance to inflict "Joint Beat" that weakens the monster to Knight attacks.

[Haboob]

Coming back after patch 1/22 heres what ive found.

 

Gear

1. Knights weapon stats (sword+ shield) on aov equips is inferior to every other class.

 

2. Shield stats are inferior to pre aov shields which makes aov shields worthless.

 

 

Skills

 

Concentration is indeed outdated.

Your main source of damage is now from min/max not attack power. I doubt ANYONE will waste 5 skill points for roughly +30 skill damage, 10% more damage received.

 

 

 

The big problem is that tank Warriors are in fact simultaneously more sturdy AND deal more damage than Knights at the moment.

 

Yes.

[3333130512165319760]

no official answers here?? there are 4 tanks in game... buff all for good sake! since every single player picks to play as a lazy dps...
 

[Meconopsis]

no official answers here?? there are 4 tanks in game... buff all for good sake! since every single player picks to play as a lazy dps...

Problem is the current state of the game every class can potentially tank bosses and the lack for tanks to exist in this state is high. Therefore, any tank class with high damage is going to be pinpointed as overpowered.

Being a DPS class isn't really lazy, but when certain DPS classes have tools that make them good, if not better than tanks at surviving, such as higher AGI for the current broken dodge and hit, then what are the points of being a tank class? (Assassin)

But this thread is about why knights and warriors are just too similar with warriors having higher damage.

[Tiduspeco]

But this thread is about why knights and warriors are just too similar with warriors having higher damage.

Not just damage, nearly everything. And as gear progress, that gap will become larger and larger. Really not much needs to be done to correct most of these issues. Buff ML shields, give knights the 3 atk per str warriors get, lower warrior's defense, and change the weapon damage rankings back to their pre-aov state (warriors with highest atk, knights/beastmaster with second highest, monk with lowest) Then we can start working on the other tanks. The other 2 tanks require a bit more work as they're kinda unique compared to warrior/knight. Monk needs a buff, beastmaster needs a nerf.

Edited by Tiduspeco, 28 January 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Haboob]

Hmm i was wrong about you TidusPeco... you do understand whats wrong with knight and i pretty much agree with everything you said. I hope with your help we have success getting the word out about fixing them.

 

 

[Tiduspeco]

Hmm i was wrong about you TidusPeco... you do understand whats wrong with knight and i pretty much agree with everything you said. I hope with your help we have success getting the word out about fixing them.

Oh don't worry, Njoror is getting his fill of my Knight QQing and he's gonna keep getting it every day LOL! In all seriousness, we're discussing ways that we can make them more on par with warriors and then take it from there. Hopefully once we get Knight and Warrior sorted out we'll have our base to be able to adjust Monk and Beastmaster accordingly. I have some suggestions for those classes as well but that's a different topic.

[VanS3n]

well for the sake of the discussion.. let us look at the current in-game highest tier weapons for the tank class ...

 

 

well on first glance.. Knights are already doomed to have no chance at competing with the rest 

 

and if some will argue that the knight has shield, he gets extra stats for his DPS from there.. 

 

I took the liberty of taking screenshot of all the Raid shields that I have (forgive me for crappy refines) to compare it with the Knight Osiris Shield

 

 

by far the only saving grace of Chaos dungeon to the knight class is having the Chaos shield, which is by far the most decent shield in the game IMO

 

 

[3333130512165319760]

PLZ REBALANCE KNIGHT WE ARE THE MOST CRAPPY CHARACTER IN GAME!

[Tiduspeco]

PLZ REBALANCE KNIGHT WE ARE THE MOST CRAPPY CHARACTER IN GAME!

I don't know about that. But as far as tanks go, Monks aren't that great atm and we're worse than them...

[Meconopsis]

I don't know about that. But as far as tanks go, Monks aren't that great atm and we're worse than them...

 

Yeah I'm starting to notice monks are better off being a DPS class...

[Tiduspeco]

Yeah I'm starting to notice monks are better off being a DPS class...

I should probably go DPS knight till Feb 5th. Then reskill back to tank.

[Kupfner]

Oh ya just a quick question tiduspeco. How can u get 5k def on full knight menace set? Cos my knight with full joser set and chaos shield can only get 4k def. Is the full menace set being refined to +20?

[Tiduspeco]

Oh ya just a quick question tiduspeco. How can u get 5k def on full knight menace set? Cos my knight with full joser set and chaos shield can only get 4k def. Is the full menace set being refined to +20?

That's odd because the base defense for full menace set (including shield) is just over 5k. One of your pieces must be broken. All of my gear is Joser and none of it has been refined at all aside from my sword, and that's only +8. I believe the defense boost from Menace to Joser is about +450 def

 

[Kupfner]

No, its not broken. Hmm, i guess its cos different server version. Im from SEA anyway, but there is no such discussion over there so i decide to seek here. Thanks for the image, it helps me to imagine how our joser defense will be and compare to warrior . 

[2523140101075058987]

warriors right now(NSFW language)

[Tiduspeco]

No, its not broken. Hmm, i guess its cos different server version. Im from SEA anyway, but there is no such discussion over there so i decide to seek here. Thanks for the image, it helps me to imagine how our joser defense will be and compare to warrior . 

Excluding shield, warrior joser gear has the same defense as knight gear. Although I haven't tested this, I believe defense has diminishing returns. Meaning that after a certain point higher defense will result in less of a damage reduction. My friend has a DPS warrior, full joser gear, no defender, and has about 4900 defense. That translates to roughly 62%. I have 5599 defense and that's 65%.

[VanS3n]

still hopeful for a remedy for the current predicament of the knight class.. we are not asking much but just enough for us to be able to compete in the same playing field as everybody else

[1214681284]

Osiris sword only 5z? low damage and cheap too XD(Please devs  I dont care about damage output at all but make it a real tanky tank please)

[3333130512165319760]

Knight are like little Sherman´s and BM are like Panzers V alias Tiger

[raela]

No, its not broken. Hmm, i guess its cos different server version. Im from SEA anyway, but there is no such discussion over there so i decide to seek here. Thanks for the image, it helps me to imagine how our joser defense will be and compare to warrior . 

 

We had a patch that boosted the stats of Menace and Joser gear.. Menace became better than even Chaos gears. Before that patch, it was either on the level or below Bapho/PvE H gear.