144 replies to this topic

[NuwaChan]

After reading VanS3n's post, I think all these weapon numbers are too high for tanks.

Sins, rogues, and Rangers have min max values in the 700 - 800 range. Their job is dps
not BM, War, or Knight. IMO i think Monks should be a DPS / Tank hybrid class.
Monks should be reduced to about 800 min/max dmg, BM, war, and knight should be reduced
to about 750 min/max dmg.

IMO i think that Knights should have these changes to their osiris sword:
make the min/max dmg 700, +140 str, make agi 344, make vit 360, make hit 620, Add 300
parry, make crit 323.

 

Their should be at least 400 parry on a knights shield too, after all the whole PURPOSE for 

lugging around a heavy shield is to parry attacks.......

Edited by NuwaChan, 04 February 2014 - 10:38 AM.

[dontnerfmepls]

After reading VanS3n's post, I think all these weapon numbers are too high for tanks.

Sins, rogues, and Rangers have min max values in the 700 - 800 range. Their job is dps
not BM, War, or Knight. IMO i think Monks should be a DPS / Tank hybrid class.
Monks should be reduced to about 800 min/max dmg, BM, war, and knight should be reduced
to about 750 min/max dmg.
 

 

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Look at the Osiris weapon damage. Sins, and rogues have the exact same min/max damage on their respective weapons as monk knuckles (which happens to be 980-1009, not 700-800). Ranger Bows may be slightly lower than a BM/Warrior weapon, but the osiris bow is still 1044-1143 min/max damage. That's nowhere close to this 700-800 range you reported. Did you even take the time to look at the weapons, or did you just decide to make up random numbers to support your argument?

 

And this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that all of these classes have different skills, with different damage % modifiers. You really want to balance a game based solely on weapon damage, without taking into consideration the skills and spammability of said skills?

 

I do however, believe that knight weapon damage should be boosted so that it's the same as sins, rogues, and monks. It's kinda silly right now that they not only have the lowest weapon damage, they also have a shield that's useless at master levels. I also believe shield defense should be boosted considerably to put knights more in line with warriors. I'd like to see 2000-3000 defense on a master shield to make up for lack of the defender skill.

 

But please, don't post bogus information without checking if it's accurate. Saying that sin/rogue/ranger damage is in the 700-800 range is flat out incorrect.

[NuwaChan]

http://forums.warppo...s-crafted-gear/

 

Rogue

http://i.imgur.com/0Ix9Mtg.png

 

Sin

http://i.imgur.com/tKORK2V.png

 

Ranger

http://i.imgur.com/RiPP4wJ.png

 

Unless they have been changed again.....

Edited by NuwaChan, 04 February 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[dontnerfmepls]

I advise you to make a level 1 blacksmith and go check the current numbers yourself. All those numbers I posted are from looking at recipes ingame. Next time do a little research before asking for nerfs. Creating a level 1 character to validate your claims is by no means a hard task.

 

 

 

 

 

[NuwaChan]

I did do research, the weapon numbers just changed again. You seem awfully upset in your tone.

We could be having a discussion about why you think a war doing 50k in a crit with rage strike is

ok, because with these numbers that can happen.

 

my point is that bm, and war should be nerfed a bit, and knights should boosted.

Edited by NuwaChan, 04 February 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[dontnerfmepls]

The numbers weren't changed "again" they were changed one time. In the 1/22 patch when they boosted the stats on all of the master level gear. That post you did your "research" in was dated and over a month old.

 

And yeah, I am a little upset that people post asking for nerfs without taking 5 minutes to validate their claims first. You based your "research" on a screenshot that is a month old, instead of basing your research off of what is currently ingame. That is why I am upset.

 

You want to know why 50k rage strikes are okay? Because monks can crit for 60k. Crecentia can also crit for 50k. Rangers can crit for 40k with vulcan arrow. I've seen a rogue crit for 40kish with moonlight dance in a duel. If shadow explosion was actually working correctly, I'm sure assassins could crit in the 50k range as well. These are all numbers I've witnessed first hand in game, with the current min/max numbers on weapons.

 

My point is, I'd rather them buff knights first and change the damage numbers a bit instead of nerfing two classes on a whim. Why nerf when you can buff knight damage so they become viable again? I don't disagree with you that knights are in a bad spot right now. I do however disagree with your methods of balancing.

 

tl;dr = I'd prefer them buffing knights and other classes accordingly instead of nerfing.

 

Edited by dontnerfmepls, 04 February 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[raela]

Besides, wars and BMs can hit 100k now anyway. ;D

[Maharaorajah]

You want to know why 50k rage strikes are okay? Because monks can crit for 60k. Crecentia can also crit for 50k. Rangers can crit for 40k with vulcan arrow. I've seen a rogue crit for 40kish with moonlight dance in a duel. If shadow explosion was actually working correctly, I'm sure assassins could crit in the 50k range as well. These are all numbers I've witnessed first hand in game, with the current min/max numbers on weapons.

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen this. I am sick and tired of people I talk to "only" saying nerf warrior because of rage strike. The other classes are clearly able to do just as much damage if not comparable.

 

Besides, wars and BMs can hit 100k now anyway. ;D

 

How? I'm not being sarcastic here, I only reach 50k personally, what am I doing wrong? I don't have max stat Rune seeds, but I can say I've got the best gear available. And please don't tell me that's including elemental damage....

Edited by Maharaorajah, 04 February 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[raela]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen this. I am sick and tired of people I talk to "only" saying nerf warrior because of rage strike. The other classes are clearly able to do just as much damage if not comparable.

 

 

How? I'm not being sarcastic here, I only reach 50k personally, what am I doing wrong? I don't have max stat Rune seeds, but I can say I've got the best gear available. And please don't tell me that's including elemental damage....

 

Well, including elements.. but here's a screenshot posted of 130k. SM also can give up to +15% damage off of a link that this war did not have, plus no INT buff here.

 

 

Its so beautiful... praise jebus!

 

Spoiler

 

 

[jhay1825]

Yep warriors can do 100k+ crits now with elements. I do around 140k+ with just my self buff and berserk with my Djoser weapon. Havent tried with my osiris great sword yet coz i didnt put any element on it.

Edited by jhay1825, 04 February 2014 - 09:38 PM.

[BlueTrainer]

Yep warriors can do 100k+ crits now with elements. I do around 140k+ with just my self buff and berserk with my Djoser weapon. Havent tried with my osiris great sword yet coz i didnt put any element on it.

AND i think you should add level 10 RG , dps type?+statue buff? or im wrong? coz tank war rare to see 90k crit 

im also agree with Maha point, while we got several war post picture for the first time they see awesome dmg deal in AOV (in war life literally), while we barely hard to see other class show off their dmg more higher then dps war class....Im not agree war been nerf, coz they sacrifice their defensive build to get those dmg....

yeah other dps class also can 1 hit KO too (been duel vs those class)some time im 1 hit them and sometimes i been 1 hit KO back

[jhay1825]

AND i think you should add level 10 RG , dps type?+statue buff? or im wrong? coz tank war rare to see 90k crit

im also agree with Maha point, while we got several war post picture for the first time they see awesome dmg deal in AOV (in war life literally), while we barely hard to see other class show off their dmg more higher then dps war class....Im not agree war been nerf, coz they sacrifice their defensive build to get those dmg....

yeah other dps class also can 1 hit KO too (been duel vs those class)some time im 1 hit them and sometimes i been 1 hit KO back

No statue buff.. Im too lazy to go to prontera to buy those buffs.

Every class has the potential to 1 hit evryone. On any case its the one who hits first wins. Which is why PvP right now is broken as hell. Or the one with the most agi wins.

For me all the classes defense and damage of every class is broken. I dont even understand how the damage modifiers are applied now. Any raid will be pointless if we do this kind of damage to monsters.

And i also agree about the shield issue on knights, seeing as they have lower attack power than warriors they should add str to the shield and practically give more defense with it. Coz knights are the symbol of defense with them having shields and warriors are for raw power with the great swords. Which is why warriors are the best to be hydrids (DPS/ Tank ) instead of just a single focus class.

[3333130512165319760]

i just want to know if knights are better at tanking than a warrior or what, DO THEY F/&%/ng rebalance us or we still SUCKING!?

Edited by 3333130512165319760, 05 February 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[atcX]

question: how the hell did that guy do 2 consecutive rage strikes?? I wanna be able to do that too =D

Well, including elements.. but here's a screenshot posted of 130k. SM also can give up to +15% damage off of a link that this war did not have, plus no INT buff here.

 

 

 

 

 

[PandeeChio]

i just want to know if knights are better at tanking than a warrior or what, DO THEY F/&%/ng rebalance us or we still SUCKING!?

 Knights have the best Defensive utility skills to tanking always (Comparing Warrior and Knight) but the problem is that the new "Thing" at Ro2 is that who deals most dmg. Sure Knights can tank better than a warrior with the Normal "Tank type" skill set but can't generate enough threath to the enemy, which is why knights are noted as "Useless". 

If they boost up or tweak knights skills so they generate more threath so that they're more usefull on tanking stuff that would be better but then this game doesnt give any chance for knights to tank anything at this current point where this game is making cause no one dont want to do raids cause you don't gain anything from completing them, cause we dont have any Raid Gear Progression going on.

 

As my point of view Knights aren't Sucking, But they're missing the stuff where knights can be the number one on doing it, so that people want to have knight in the game.

But Knights do need more dmg considering with the new "Defense rate" from Dayr Gears knight can go and tank 20 mobs without dying in 30sec-2min

[xBombie]

 Knights have the best Defensive utility skills to tanking always (Comparing Warrior and Knight) but the problem is that the new "Thing" at Ro2 is that who deals most dmg. Sure Knights can tank better than a warrior with the Normal "Tank type" skill set but can't generate enough threath to the enemy, which is why knights are noted as "Useless". 

If they boost up or tweak knights skills so they generate more threath so that they're more usefull on tanking stuff that would be better but then this game doesnt give any chance for knights to tank anything at this current point where this game is making cause no one dont want to do raids cause you don't gain anything from completing them, cause we dont have any Raid Gear Progression going on.

 

As my point of view Knights aren't Sucking, But they're missing the stuff where knights can be the number one on doing it, so that people want to have knight in the game.

But Knights do need more dmg considering with the new "Defense rate" from Dayr Gears knight can go and tank 20 mobs without dying in 30sec-2min

 

I wonder which skills you talking about Knights' "Defensive Utility" are better. Tanking skills Knights have are: Aura shield- reduce the damage taken by 20% for 10s. Warriors got Endure: reduce the damage taken by 40% for 10s.

Knights also have Shield fortress: reducing the damage taken by 50% for 10s, help raid members within a 20m radius by 25% for 10s. But at the same time, Knights can't pot or move for that 10s.

 

If you look at warriors, they also got Defender: increasing Defense, Dodge and Parry Rate by 30% at the cost of decreasing Attack Power by 10%. Parrying: Increasing Parry Rate by 40% for 10s. And Tension relax: recover 30% of Max HP, and restores up to 60% of Max HP over 30s. The problem was just they didn't have enough skill points for it all but now they do so enlighten me.

[PandeeChio]

First of all Shield Fortress is a when maxed 50% dmg reduction for yourself and 25% to all players including yourself so that would leave Knight having 75% dmg Reduction while Healer-like characters could Heal all players including knight.

With the effect of Shield Fortress you could activate before Aura shield too which means a total of 95% dmg reduction and added with power of Aura Armor that dmg reduction would be complete 5%(Havent tested the whole combo tho is true 100% dmg reduction), that skill was the "Omg we're saved from danger skill" which helped a lot in raids. Then comes Aura shield which has 1 min Cooldown while Shield fortress has 2 min cooldown, that means you can spam aura shield all time and you will have a good dmg reduction skill every minute.

 

But what does warrior has? Warrior has Endure when maxed that gives 40% dmg reduction for 10 seconds with the downside of 2 Min Cooldown and that skill doesn't affect the whole party but only itself for 10 seconds. Then comes Parry which raises the chance of parrying by 40% if maxed and keeping a note that parry effect means % chance to block 50% of the initial dmg, which is the "Spammable" skill with 1 min cooldown. Parry is good no doubt what has a downside of not blocking the entire dmg. So as a result warrior has power to have bigger chance to parry for 10 secs with a 1 min cooldown, and reduce the dmg taken to himself by by max 40% with a 2 minute cooldown.

On the other side Knights have 20% dmg reduction with a 1 min cooldown to himself and a skill that brings 75% dmg reduction and 25% to Party members inside the radius.

 

As an result to the Defensive side of skills Knights has better defensive utility than warrior and also brings dmg reduction to others, while Warrior doesn't. Only problem is with Shield Fortress that Knights cant do anything else, but the point is that this skill is used in raids that are now useless for ppl.

 

Now the Recovery part. 

 

This spot i can surely say that Warrior wins this by 100%

 

Tension Relax = Heal 30% when used and 60% over 30 sec 

 

Aura Heal = If lucky you can heal 2-3k hp xD (For note i haven't tested the power of this but it has been totally weak)

 

So Knights skill set is more Raid Orientated while Warriors are more like a Replace to knights with a good 1 vs 1 Skill set.

 

But my point was that people doesn't do much raids cause of the AWESOME defense coming from the BUFFED Dayr Desert Gears/Crafted which made Knights Useless.

So as an result Knights are totally useless cause in this game here isn't anything that would make people want to have Knights as a party/raid member.

 

[Tiduspeco]

I've updated the original post to include a referance pic. I have slightly better gear and a MUCH better card set, yet my atk is still FAR behind even a basic Warrior.

[dontnerfmepls]

You are also full int build vs full str. Although that doesn't account for that big of a discrepancy in the attack power.

 

But I do agree, they need to boost knights weapon damage so it's atleast the same as monks/rogues/sins and even give them the 3 atk per str that warriors have. They also need to boost master level shield defense considerably to make up for the lack of defender skill.

 

I'd much rather have them buff knights up to that point instead of bring warriors down and make them worthless also. I think a knight should have less attack than a warrior, and be more tanky. However, a knight shouldn't have that much less attack.

[VanS3n]

fix the Osiris shield pls .. would rather have that stat as STR than WIS and make that defense on the shield a bit better than Chaos shield as to atleastmake it worth our while wasting effort to get them

 

or atleast make our Osiris sword be at par with the monk knuckles and/or rouge/sin weapons.. 

Edited by VanS3n, 06 February 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[Tiduspeco]

You are also full int build vs full str. Although that doesn't account for that big of a discrepancy in the attack power.

 

But I do agree, they need to boost knights weapon damage so it's atleast the same as monks/rogues/sins and even give them the 3 atk per str that warriors have. They also need to boost master level shield defense considerably to make up for the lack of defender skill.

 

I'd much rather have them buff knights up to that point instead of bring warriors down and make them worthless also. I think a knight should have less attack than a warrior, and be more tanky. However, a knight shouldn't have that much less attack.

I tested my damage before and after restatting from full STR to full INT. Losing 160 STR, my bash went from doing 2350 to 2300 (sinister weapon vs mummies) So not including the elemental bonus, that's a 25 damage decrease from losing 160 STR........wtf?

[Leinzan]

160 STR = 345.6 ATK = about 22.25 Skill Points.

 

Bash being a 250% means this will do 55.63 damange, minus all the damage mitigation :v

 

Refinin a weapon to +6 is already more damage than those 160 STR, woot woot!

[xBombie]

First of all Shield Fortress is a when maxed 50% dmg reduction for yourself and 25% to all players including yourself so that would leave Knight having 75% dmg Reduction while Healer-like characters could Heal all players including knight.

With the effect of Shield Fortress you could activate before Aura shield too which means a total of 95% dmg reduction and added with power of Aura Armor that dmg reduction would be complete 5%(Havent tested the whole combo tho is true 100% dmg reduction), that skill was the "Omg we're saved from danger skill" which helped a lot in raids. Then comes Aura shield which has 1 min Cooldown while Shield fortress has 2 min cooldown, that means you can spam aura shield all time and you will have a good dmg reduction skill every minute.

 

But what does warrior has? Warrior has Endure when maxed that gives 40% dmg reduction for 10 seconds with the downside of 2 Min Cooldown and that skill doesn't affect the whole party but only itself for 10 seconds. Then comes Parry which raises the chance of parrying by 40% if maxed and keeping a note that parry effect means % chance to block 50% of the initial dmg, which is the "Spammable" skill with 1 min cooldown. Parry is good no doubt what has a downside of not blocking the entire dmg. So as a result warrior has power to have bigger chance to parry for 10 secs with a 1 min cooldown, and reduce the dmg taken to himself by by max 40% with a 2 minute cooldown.

On the other side Knights have 20% dmg reduction with a 1 min cooldown to himself and a skill that brings 75% dmg reduction and 25% to Party members inside the radius.

 

As an result to the Defensive side of skills Knights has better defensive utility than warrior and also brings dmg reduction to others, while Warrior doesn't. Only problem is with Shield Fortress that Knights cant do anything else, but the point is that this skill is used in raids that are now useless for ppl.

 

Now the Recovery part. 

 

This spot i can surely say that Warrior wins this by 100%

 

Tension Relax = Heal 30% when used and 60% over 30 sec 

 

Aura Heal = If lucky you can heal 2-3k hp xD (For note i haven't tested the power of this but it has been totally weak)

 

So Knights skill set is more Raid Orientated while Warriors are more like a Replace to knights with a good 1 vs 1 Skill set.

 

But my point was that people doesn't do much raids cause of the AWESOME defense coming from the BUFFED Dayr Desert Gears/Crafted which made Knights Useless.

So as an result Knights are totally useless cause in this game here isn't anything that would make people want to have Knights as a party/raid member.

 

The resistant of damage of Shield Fortress is 50% on the knight, the additional 25% doesn't apply. don't say things without testing. lmao. I do agree having a knight at some point is safer than a warrior because they can save the whole raid rather than just himself. However, if you talk about soloing (solo tanking), Knights don't have a stand at all. Considering warriors have self heal, 40% damage reduction, 30% up of defense, dodge and parry and 40% up of parry. I have seen a warrior has gotten 70% dodge and 70% parry (without parrying skill), and it is even before morroc and everything.
 

[Kupfner]

Aura heal is not that weak. I heal 2.5k-3k each time, when crit it can heal me up to 6k. With decent vigor it can heal me every 14 sec. Imo, knight now is vigor dependant to make it good, esp for maxing the potential of shield aura, shield boom, and aura heal to be used more often.

[Tiduspeco]

I'll update this with Osiris gear to give a better understanding of how the gap becomes even larger as gear progresses. But not tonight. Too sleepy