191 replies to this topic

[ZeroTigress]

The whole 3rd job system makes no sense, and not just on the exp table. The problem is that originally, 3rd job was supposed to fit in the normal 99 levels. If you ever wondered why 2nd job ended in the 80-82 range, and leveling got insanely slow at 9x pre-Renewal, it's because you were supposed to have a 3rd job bring you from 80-95, with 3rd job taking about as long as 2nd job does to max. You would then trans and get extra skills for all jobs, still within the 99 levels.

When Gravity got taken over by that company that produced all those useless culture towns and nearly killed the game in the process, and then a new team got a chance to try to save it, they rushed transcendence out to revive the game. It *worked*, but the result was the extremely unbalanced trans class system, and the future problem of "ok, so where the hell does 3rd job fit now?" The result is a 3rd job that ends up replacing trans instead of working with it, and has 50 levels, despite progressing from a job with 70. They basically took a cracked, barely stable system, and duct taped 3rd job to it.

I'm curious to know if they're ever going to fix this.

Renewal was their chance to redo the game and fix everything the old, crappy developers screwed up. And now that we see what they've done instead, I'm even less inclined to stay with RO. If they're really okay with having the job system remain as it is now and just roll with that, I'm not sure I want to stick around for the later Episodes. I mean, they've already gone and redone RO2, why not do the same with the original game?

[Kadelia]

They basically took a cracked, barely stable system, and duct taped 3rd job to it.

Sounds about right. The game hasn't had the same appeal since back when 2nd class was the ceiling. There was a time when you'd be an acolyte walking toward bayalan dungeon and see a single priest sitting outside the dungeon chatting amongst the dozens of first job characters and healing them benevolently and you'd think to yourself "someday... /ene". Flash forward 8 years and we could essentially delete 1st and 2nd jobs and people practically wouldn't notice. We walk around AoEing everything and 1 shot KOing everything. There is no sense of adventure, no sense of wonder, no lofty goal you want to reach with a select few who've reached it you can admire. It's a wonder the game's name hasn't changed, because it really isn't the same game I fell in love with.

[Brindizer]

I remember how badly I wanted a Paladin. I was grand crossing Tamruan for multiple hours each day, and then when I finally hit 99 I went to Valhalla and shed a tear or two.
Of course, the original Valhalla music is terrible so I had changed it to Doorway to Heaven.

Now, there's hardly any effort involved in reaching that transcendent class character. You beat up worthless and stupid monsters for a week until you reach it.
Then you have to change to a third job sprite you really don't like just so you can progress more. You hit level 100, and then all that quick progress you were just making hits a brick wall. You work your ass off for 105/12, and suddenly you just stop caring.

For me, I finished up my level 95 trans characters in about 2 hours for each of them, and I didn't take them much further than 107. Royal Guard is 131, but that's because it's stupidly easy to jump into a pile of monsters and kill them by getting hit.

The game has absolutely lost its magic. There's no effort required to hit third jobs at all. There's no dream, no ultimate goal.

Also, my Gunslingers and Taekwon Master are my favorite characters. Guess I can't play them anymore!

Edited by Brindizer, 08 December 2010 - 06:26 AM.

[Noire]

While 'Onscreen Party' might be good to prevent from leeching it's a terrible solution for classes which are pullers.
Personally I hated that tweak in repeatable quests, because I was getting less exp that people who were standing in one place

Edited by Noire, 08 December 2010 - 07:05 AM.

[Talvis]

Sounds about right. The game hasn't had the same appeal since back when 2nd class was the ceiling. There was a time when you'd be an acolyte walking toward bayalan dungeon and see a single priest sitting outside the dungeon chatting amongst the dozens of first job characters and healing them benevolently and you'd think to yourself "someday... /ene". Flash forward 8 years and we could essentially delete 1st and 2nd jobs and people practically wouldn't notice. We walk around AoEing everything and 1 shot KOing everything. There is no sense of adventure, no sense of wonder, no lofty goal you want to reach with a select few who've reached it you can admire. It's a wonder the game's name hasn't changed, because it really isn't the same game I fell in love with.

Not many people play RO, or most other mmorps for the RPG part. They just play to get max level as soon as possible.

[mooMOOmoo]

The 40% exp for killing too high monsters and the level-range drop penalty really has killed any hope of leveling by killing monsters 1 at a time.

Since my Arch Bishop's equipments and all my zeny got robbed I am taking a break from RO until many of these things are fixed. (awaiting "Renewal #2")

[PhenixFire]

Taking a long long break (left during the good old days of '06) it was nice to come back to what promised to be a refreshing restart to an old game. It was pretty cool taking my 2nd class chars to 99 then trans and eventually 3rd classing them. I got to explore maps I really hadn't been on before, and kill monsters I really never killed before. I have to say I've hit a point in leveling where it's the same. Different classes, same leveling method; wing, wing, f1 (mob skill) click left mouse, f2 (pots) f2, wing, and occasionally an extra mouse click for positioning. I actually interacted with people on the map solely to let them know I wasn't a bot, god knows I felt like one repeating the same key strokes.

From my perspective I want to level up to make my characters better (excited to use some skills) but that totally ruins the experience of the game. I feel like with this new exp system, I'm forced into the same maps if I Want to level up moderately fast, or stuck trying to figure out which maps I can level at efficiently. It's not that I'm an experience freak, but in reality I can't really do some maps well, with or without a party, and some maps are just horribly put together. I've stayed in Magma 2 from 99-116 simply because every other place is not worth what that place is even when I'm about to break the over 10 limit I'm sure it'll still be better than some other maps.

Going from one AoE skill to having to use 3 or 4 to kill a monster will never be efficient regardless of what the exp you gain is, not only does it feel 10 times longer it costs 3 to 4 times more to do it. I feel like the gap between one map to another is too large and on top of that I'm forced to leave a map after a certain level.

But to finally get to my real point, partying. I would like to (even though I'm not one) speak out for all the arch bishops out there. I feel like renewal has completely screwed the AB class wholeheartedly. Most classes now don't need an AB to level with them, and most probably party with them out of pity, laziness, long friendships,it's your girlfriend or boyfriend or being a little broke and can't chug the white pots. How could the crux of any party be so easily skipped over? Between leveling efficiently by myself with no problems for 100% exp and adding what amounts to a leech for 50% exp and double my time to get a level, I think the choice is clear. Sure they're great for MvPing, endless tower, WoE, but on the average day they have little worth? Why would a group of solo map destroying classes get together when there is no benefit to it? It's not about being selfish, and it's not about being exp greedy it's about being reasonable. When the EXP gap jumps so high, and you have no efficient maps for really anyone to level on why would I double my (billions upon billions) exp requirement when I don't have to?

I don't really care about the exp boost for a party, I'd rather see maps where a group setting is fun and efficient, and the leveling is nice. I don't mean a party sits, pullers pull from a mile away to a spot kinda thing, I mean maps of moving around and having fun. The endless tower is probably the greatest thing I've seen come from Gravity (izzy dungeon is a close second) since I started playing, because it takes classes working as a team to progress. It's not just a map where AoE spamming by one person is a must, it takes the group to win and a bit of "skill."

[Lucentos]

IMHO Gravity should implement Elite version of monsters on each map. Elite version of monsters should be oriented to be effectively killed only by strong singletarget skills and parties. Althrought Elites should be limited in quantity on maps and have some kind of crown mark to make them different, as well as drops from elite versions should have higher chance, than regular versions of monsters.

[ZeroTigress]

IMHO Gravity should implement Elite version of monsters on each map. Elite version of monsters should be oriented to be effectively killed only by strong singletarget skills and parties. Althrought Elites should be limited in quantity on maps and have some kind of crown mark to make them different, as well as drops from elite versions should have higher chance, than regular versions of monsters.

That's technically what MVPs are.

[Lucentos]

That's technically what MVPs are.

I`m think that my idea of having monsters in between Basic ones and MVPs in Tier of difficulty. Have regular rewards, like their basic counterparts, but with greater chance, difficulty of killing should be pretty high, but also reward with good Exp as well. Let`s say Glast Heim Chivalry have 70 Raydrics, but there are also ~10-12 Hardened Raydrics, which have ~6-8x MaxHP of Basic Raydric and0 ~4-6x Atk power, they`re give 10x Exp and 10x chance to drop Regular Raydric loot. With this addition we`ll kill two rabbits in one shot - we`ll still have AoE Lvling for solo munchers and will also have challenging monsters, that will be done to be killed with strong singletarget attacks.

[DeltaRay]

I remember how badly I wanted a Paladin. I was grand crossing Tamruan for multiple hours each day, and then when I finally hit 99 I went to Valhalla and shed a tear or two.
Of course, the original Valhalla music is terrible so I had changed it to Doorway to Heaven.

Now, there's hardly any effort involved in reaching that transcendent class character. You beat up worthless and stupid monsters for a week until you reach it.
Then you have to change to a third job sprite you really don't like just so you can progress more. You hit level 100, and then all that quick progress you were just making hits a brick wall. You work your ass off for 105/12, and suddenly you just stop caring.

For me, I finished up my level 95 trans characters in about 2 hours for each of them, and I didn't take them much further than 107. Royal Guard is 131, but that's because it's stupidly easy to jump into a pile of monsters and kill them by getting hit.

The game has absolutely lost its magic. There's no effort required to hit third jobs at all. There's no dream, no ultimate goal.

Also, my Gunslingers and Taekwon Master are my favorite characters. Guess I can't play them anymore!

You are right about the "magic been gone"
but you have to realize this you wanted a pally when they were a lot more rarer(sp?)infact trans classes were much more rare when they came out
because they were released when there wasnt many 99s,now the server is flooded with 99 trans that magic is not there anymore because everyone else has 3rd classes.You feel you accomplished something because there wasnt that many of this XXX class just like when I was one of the very few high wizards (around 10 high wizards) i felt an accomplishment.

[Blueness]

I beg to differ, when trans was released there were a ton of 99 normal classes.

Edited by Bluedreams, 16 December 2010 - 06:32 AM.

[Wazza]

IMO the normal grinding maps are generally ok, EXCEPT they really need to make strong single target monsters that you fight 1 vs 1 for similar exp as mobbing, this way if you're not a mobbing class (Hello battle Arch Bishop!), you aren't doomed to grind for eternity.

Now, there's two kinds of maps.

Horrible low spawn maps (Most of New World, as an example) that monsters give the same exp as other stuff their level, only they are much harder for no reward.

High spawn great places to level with pissweak monsters giving loads of exp (Magma).

Also, I wish they would implement Nightmare mode maps EVERYWHERE so people might party. People might be tempted to party if a monster is 9x harder (In some way that soloing becomes slower than regular killing, but a party would be better than the regular map), but gives 5x the experience.

[Dukeares]

mmm i like the idea of an Elite map.... a super version of the mob with better exp and Nightmare mode .

But the exp sharing atm are realy sucks....Y cant they just set that every ones in the party will get same exp? if some 1 kill a 3k exp monster..and every ones in the party just get 3k exp? the Current party system as we all know is quite unbalance...No killer want to reduce they kill exp by dividing it with every added members in a party especialy if they are support class . To them Party member are consider as an redundant in Lving it self.

Support class are realy lving very slow atm with the current party system ,

SO please revamp the party system. Make it so every ones get the same exp. It will make party system worth while and fun

Seriouly i dont play my GX anymore i only play it when im partying it for Endless or somewhere fun that need a full party these day..

Ro game was suppose to be fun... it realy begining to lose it magix

[Wanderer]

Almost 2 months since this thread was started, ~3 months since renewal hitted us and no changes to party bonuses so far...

If this is not top priority guys I don't know what it is

[Mwrip]

I'm really starting to think they got their answer from kRO and the answer was "iRO isn't worth the effort required to save it."

I really can't think of any other explanation for why some of the simplest changes haven't been made - or at least announced with a release date yet.

[Wazza]

I'm really starting to think they got their answer from kRO and the answer was "iRO isn't worth the effort required to save it."

I really can't think of any other explanation for why some of the simplest changes haven't been made - or at least announced with a release date yet.

Don't forget a large amount of these changes called for aren't on kRO either.

Don't worry, kRO mess loads of stuff up too. I think they don't have the manpower for the game at all anymore.

[dragoonlordz]

I posted this in another thread but figured may have been better us in this section so if it's okay I'll leave it here too.

Didn't we have a Mentor System in this game before or am I thinking of maybe a different game? Basically ingame additional box maybe another tab in the party/friend window. People advertise themselves to be free to mentor new or low level players ranging from level 1 base to say 20 or 30 (who search this window for someone to help them) and as such both members get bonuses for doing so (I cannot remember what the other game gave as rewards but I guess iRO players here could come up with their own suggestions aka kafra points) and obviously the new player got help gearing and learning to play aswell as help leveling to a certain point. To stop abuse of the system make so that cannot mentor an account if it's tied into your own warpportal master account so cannot be used to gain points by mentoring your own characters on alt accounts.

[antikv]

oh the insanity zombies now are weaker than skeletons= =

[Siveria]

Yes, please keep working on the new AI for monsters. Currently, the only way to tell that a monster is "harder" is that they have more HP. Otherwise, outside of MvPs, there really is no difference in difficulty. I think the problem is that these are all monsters that we mastered before renewal, fighting them again just feels old and stale.

Also, support characters should be a bigger asset to people than kafra items.

People won't take them because even partying one person well there goes half your exp when you could just solo at that same spot, I proposed they make it so 80% exp per for 2 people then drop by 5% per down to a minimum of 50% per party member on that map. Bascally every member after the 7th is free with no exp penalty. As the party system is now I'd never party not even with my own slave on share.

[Siveria]

I hate leechers too, but they're going to find a way to leech. What's a bigger problem, the fact that leechers exist or the fact that partying has effectively been removed from the game?

I really don't see peoples problems with leechers.. I mean whats stopping you from doing it too? nothing. Let them leech if they want. this is a korean grind mmorpg with little else to do but grind.

[Siveria]

Instead of the complicated aura idea and tweaking party share why not make it like

• Every member in a party beyond the first is +5% EXP
• Each of the game's classes adds a certain EXP mod to the party, but only the first of each class present counts.
• Special set bonuses. i.e. "all girls" or "all priests" or "Every different job".
• All classes must be on screen to provide their bonus.

Class Mods:
Acolyte: +10%
Mage: +10%
Archer: +10%
Thief: +15%
Swordsman: +15%
Merchant: +25%

Priest: +10%
Wizard: +10%
Bard: +10%
Assassin: +20%
Knight: +20%
Crusader: +20%
Monk: +25%
Sage: +25%
Hunter: +25%
Blacksmith: +25%
Alchemist: +30%
Dancer: +30%
Rogue: +30%

Samples:
Acolyte+Thief = 130% EXP
Merchant+Swordsman = 145% EXP

Priest+Wizard = 125% EXP
Priest+Knight = 135% EXP
Priest+Blacksmith = 140% EXP
Monk+Blacksmith = 155% EXP
Dancer+Rogue = 165% EXP

Priest+Wizard+Bard = 140% EXP
Assassin+Monk+Crusader = 175% EXP
Hunter+Sage+Alchemist = 190% EXP

Priest+Wizard+Bard+Crusader = 165% EXP
Blacksmith+Dancer+Rogue+Alchemist = 220% EXP

2 or more people in party
All are the same class: +20% EXP
* * EX: 2 Blacksmith = 150% EXP

All are girls or boys: +10%

1 of every base class in party (acolyte,archer,mage,thief,swordsman,merchant): +20%

This is simmlar to the party system in trickster online, in a full 5 person party where you have 1 of each class type(there are 4) gives 2x exp, addd a 5th and it becomes 2.5x. There also is same gender, same class partys too buy the royal party which as I said is one of each class, is the best overall. Also the exp is not even shared either, EACH party member gets their own 2.5x exp. Mainly because every class in trickster is made to solo.

[Charon]

I don't like the class dependant bonus idea at all.
It would mean they are aware which classes are too weak, except they would have even less incentive to balance stuff afterwards.
And also it would make picking any "not best", nivelty, support build of an otherwise strong job (hence crap class conus) even less worth it.

Buff/nerf the jobs directly.

[Dukeares]

Oh man... when will we have this kind of party ever again?

Edited by Dukeares, 13 June 2011 - 01:34 AM.

[FatherBob]

This is why we need a simple flat party modification. Something small that encourages people to work together, but not so much that it breaks the system. Once again, 100% needs to be the base gain here, not a less than 100% value. I think this formula would encourage TEAMWORK and not solo activities. This is a MMORPG, not a console single player RPG. If I wanted a single player RPG, I'd go play Blue Dragon. But seeing as how I want to have some sort of interaction with other players, I play RO.

Here's the formula I'm thinking:

TotalEXP = BaseEXP x (1 + ((PartySize / 12) / Variable))

TotalEXP = Exactly what each player earns
BaseEXP = Monster EXP value. This formula can apply to both BEXP and JEXP
PartySize = This should be self explanatory.
Variable = This is the balancing factor. The lower the number, the higher the EXP gain. Setting this to a high value leads to minor bonuses. I'll use 2 and 20 in an example:



For those who want to check my work / play with the numbers, I did this in Excel using the following cell values:
A2 = 2 | B2 = 100% | C2 = 1+((A2/12)/D2) | D2 = (Variable) | E2 = B2*C2

I think that this would be perfect for encouraging parties without making things too complicated. A variable of 20~30 should be good for everyday leveling, while 2 or lower could make for some epic events (a variable of 0.10, for example, leads to a max party exp intake of 1100% per person)

Edited by FatherBob, 21 June 2011 - 11:26 PM.