109 replies to this topic

[3069121108025959500]

im just wondering for pvp we do frost drive -> JT or any lightning skills for x2 dmg.

but against boss which cannot be frozen how do you raise your dps?

 

 

Edited by 3069121108025959500, 12 September 2014 - 02:00 AM.

[aoi911]

im just wondering for pvp we do frost drive -> JT or any lightning skills for x2 dmg.

but against boss which cannot be frozen how do you raise your dps?

 

wind seal => colt bolt till seal occur then VS and JT xD . In the meantime, i use fireball too if there's no wizard in the party :3

[3069121108025959500]

im not gonna use cold bolt

[aoi911]

Then, how do you do thing for DPS when PvE ? oO

Edited by aoi911, 13 September 2014 - 02:06 AM.

[3069121108025959500]

lol thats why im asking if theres another way to do dps without using cold bolt and fire bolt?

[xMagik]

lol thats why im asking if theres another way to do dps without using cold bolt and fire bolt?

the obvious remaining choice is lightning bolt but that won't trigger any power of crest

what do you have against cold bolt tho?

[aoi911]

I don't understand him too, he declined almost all sorc skill ady 

[3069121108025959500]

nothing much against CB just want to play ligthning skill and FD haha

[SETSUNAf6w]

im just wondering for pvp we do frost drive -> JT or any lightning skills for x2 dmg.

but against boss which cannot be frozen how do you raise your dps?

 

For bosses you'll play on Wind Emblem and spam Cold Bolt to proc JT instant casts and double damage. Casting Fire Ball to dot if there's no Wizard in your party and VS when you get 2x damage procs. On hard fights you'll need to learn how to switch to Earth Emblem to heal your party members and quickly switch back to Wind Emblem to continue DPS. Pets also help increasing the damage you do.

 

I've seen most newbies spam Fire Bolt on Fire Emblem, that is generally how Wizards play not Sorcerers. As an hybrid you play on cast speed for DPS and switch to healing when needed.

[Greven79]

I've seen most newbies spam Fire Bolt on Fire Emblem, that is generally how Wizards play not Sorcerers. As an hybrid you play on cast speed for DPS and switch to healing when needed.

 

I wouldn't call them newbies. Playing a Fire Sorcerer is also a valid strategy.

[SETSUNAf6w]

I wouldn't call them newbies. Playing a Fire Sorcerer is also a valid strategy.

 

It's valid as a mix-in strategy, but pure matk/fire based builds will always be inferior to wizards.

You can't be using the full potential of your class if you don't know the mechanics of Wind Emblem and don't switch to Earth when needed.

Just a little something I've noticed from the new wave of players that are just starting to discover this game.

 

I didn't mean to say they are newbies because they play on fire, I'm saying there's actual new players who conclude fire>all because of the small matk gain.

I've seen some attack DW Upper swarm of 10 mobs individually with fire bolts. Niche strategies don't become so valid once out of their niche usage.

Edited by SETSUNAf6w, 23 September 2014 - 01:45 PM.

[Greven79]

It's valid as a mix-in strategy, but pure matk/fire based builds will always be inferior to wizards.

 
I'm sorry, but what skills do you think are used beside Fire Bolt, Fire Ball and Fire Emblem to make a Fire Sorcerer inferior to the Wizards?
 

You can't be using the full potential of your class if you don't know the mechanics of Wind Emblem and don't switch to Earth when needed. [...] I'm saying there's actual new players who conclude fire>all because of the small matk gain.

 

That's more about the argument whether a Fire Crest is inferior to a Wind Crest.

 

And it's not about the MATK gain, but whether casting a 683% Fire Bolt is worse than casting a 383% Cold Bolt just to make some Lightning skills deal more damage. And the Fire Crest lets you ignore the casting time as well.
 

Both my Wizard and my Sorcerer aren't 'high end' characters with maxed out seeds, etc. so I can't judge which side is better, but I would be careful to assume these Sorcerers to be "new players".
 

You can't be using the full potential of your class if you [...] don't switch to Earth when needed.

 

That isn't affected by whether you prefer Fire or Lightning... and switching to Earth is only really  necessary, if you think that that your heals won't suffice otherwise. A 383% Deluge and a 110% LoR might still more than enough.

[Sarasah]

Greven, imma need you to run for Volunteer Class Representative for next election because you have quite the opinions/knowledge :v

[SETSUNAf6w]

TOP KEK

[Telovi]

The problem is which class? Can one player volunteers for more than one class? For now, I'm glad he is here to stir some players' bubble. Keep everyone on the ground. 

[SETSUNAf6w]

The problem is which class? Can one player volunteers for more than one class? For now, I'm glad he is here to stir some players' bubble. Keep everyone on the ground. 

 

We're currently proposing a "Master Class Representative" title especially for him.

 

As for trying his hardest to "stir some bubbles" in 7 different classes, I can't say we got ourselves a #1 troll or not.

 

That selective quoting tho lol can't argue with that, I got #REKT 10/10.

[Telovi]

We're currently proposing a "Master Class Representative" title especially for him.

 

As for trying his hardest to "stir some bubbles" in 7 different classes, I can't say we got ourselves a #1 troll or not.

 

That selective quoting tho lol can't argue with that, I got #REKT 10/10.

 

I think you just got Greven'd. But on a serious note and in my opinion, he is the least trollish member in this forum. Most of the times he argues with his points and his opinions. Only on rare occasions where he crosses the line and gets a bit personal. In other case, I hope he can raises the post counts on the fewest threads created sub in this Class Discussion section. It's burning low and imploring more fires. 

[Greven79]

Hahaha... oh boy.

 

Just tell me, when or where I've trolled someone? And I usually take the time to give specific quotes, not just the "wrap all" versions. I can skip quotes if you want...

 

F.e. when SETSUNAf6w stated that he sees "new players who conclude fire>all because of the small matk gain", I can't prove him right or wrong. All I did was to warn him that it might not be because of a small MATK gain, but because of a personal preference towards a fire+heal hybrid build. He might dislike what I wrote or disagree ... that's ok.

 

And as I've written before, I'm bound to the overall balance of the game, not to a specific class.

 

It seems that the VCRs either didn't disagree or couldn't stop the recent Assassin changes. They either didn't notice or couldn't change that the new content can be bugged that much and that it's sheer impossible without good pets, seeds & refinements. And AFAIK, the VCR were asked first what Kafra Items to re-introduce and it seems they've chosen DNA boxes.

 

So what's the point behind the VCR system and how was the VCR system planned to be?

 

• Should it be like a forum admin, limited to a class-specific subsection?
  Then why aren't their any updated class guides here? 
   
• Is it about collecting opinions of other players in game?
  Then why do so many VCRs add personal / non-consencual ideas?

To be honest - and I know this might sound rude - to me the VCR system feels more like a lobbyism or individual prestige thing.

 

Edit:

And I miss solid arguments. Is it really that hard to create one (or more) new characters for every class on a test server to better compare them? Share the passwords and every VCR has a chance to experience the other side. IMO, it would be quite easy to prove which class should be buffed and which one to nerf. And you could print a few screenshots or vids here.

 

We don't really have to argue which tank has the highest threat. Just make a test and print the result and gear stats here.

• You think BT is balanced?
  Create two Warriors, let them chase down a boss and see who 'wins'
   
• You think an Assassin needs the low cooldown?
  Just print the threat result here
   
• You think DoTs need to be affected by armor?
  Leave them at level 1, raise dam.red. of the target and test how a Priest performs

So none of these things were made or couldn't be made. I never saw or heard that the VCRs came up with a compromise and formulated an unified change list. So what would be the to be elected as a VCR?

Edited by Greven79, 24 September 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Tonitrua]

It seems that the VCRs either didn't disagree or couldn't stop the recent Assassin changes. They either didn't notice or couldn't change that the new content can be bugged that much and that it's sheer impossible without good pets, seeds & refinements. And AFAIK, the VCR were asked first what Kafra Items to re-introduce and it seems they've chosen DNA boxes.

 

Several of us voiced our opinions against the changes you've mentioned, but we only have so much influence. We get to test the new content out, and we can pass on feedback from the community, however we are not the ones writing up the change lists or picking what gets buffed/nerfed.
 

 

So what's the point behind the VCR system and how was the VCR system planned to be?

 

• Should it be like a forum admin, limited to a class-specific subsection?
  Then why aren't their any updated class guides here? 
   
• Is it about collecting opinions of other players in game?
  Then why do so many VCRs add personal / non-consencual ideas?

 

I feel that as VCRs, the community entrusted us to convey opinions for our classes that we felt were the most vital because we know our classes well. Some players might not agree with the specific points we made, but that's because our VCR reports are based on our own opinions, what you don't see however is that all of us discuss and debate on a daily basis with the entire VCR team and the CMs not only to pass on our own feelings but the feedback that other players have expressed to us about the changes.

[Telovi]

Hahaha... oh boy.

 

Just tell me, when or where I've trolled someone? 

 

Well, about that. Forget it. Nothing worth stressing for. I have plethora of alt with abstract names and I could barely spell out all of their names correctly.  

[Greven79]

Several of us voiced our opinions against the changes you've mentioned, but we only have so much influence. We get to test the new content out, and we can pass on feedback from the community, however we are not the ones writing up the change lists or picking what gets buffed/nerfed.

 

All the VCR reports I've read (haven't skipped a single one) were nothing BUT a "change list of what ought to get buffed/nerfed". So if the voices of the VCRs don't have the slightest impact, what's the point then? Why are we still running this system?

 

And if you were to test the new content and your feedback stood unnoticed, my reaction probably would have been: "Screw it! Test it on your own!" There is no reason to test it, if that has no meaning in the end.

 

I feel that as VCRs, the community entrusted us to convey opinions for our classes that we felt were the most vital because we know our classes well. Some players might not agree with the specific points we made, but that's because our VCR reports are based on our own opinions, what you don't see however is that all of us discuss and debate on a daily basis with the entire VCR team and the CMs not only to pass on our own feelings but the feedback that other players have expressed to us about the changes.

 

Well, you're right: I can't judge, whether a VCR just stated his very own opinion or whether it was discussed first. I don't know, if Solemia discussed or tested the idea to make DoTs being affected by armor. I don't know, if Critspam discussed or tested the idea of a damage reflection on Feral Defense.

 

So that's why all I do my best to stay reasonable and add my personal feedback to certain points. That means, I didn't plan to enrage Solemia. All I did was to argue about the correlation between DoTs and HoTs, between heals and normal attacks. The same way, I didn't want to piss Critspam off. I just warned about a possible inbalance.

 

And here on this class-section, all I did was to question why a Sorcerer should get more vigor and pointed out that it seems a class will either get vigor or critical, but not both.

 

And of course, I sometimes add my own ideas. But did you ever see me pissed or did any VCR ever received an unpleasant pm from me, just because not a single idea from me ever made it into a VCR report?

 

But beside all that:

If you have access to a test server, if you have access to better testing possibilities, I would have assumed another way how the reports are done. I won't repeat my last reply again, but f.e. I still miss a protocol of your tests within the new Silent Corridor, I missed a clear announcement that the VCRs voted for a DNA-box revival. And of course, I'm not aware of any threat comparison, etc.

[Tonitrua]

but f.e. I still miss a protocol of your tests within the new Silent Corridor, I missed a clear announcement that the VCRs voted for a DNA-box revival. And of course, I'm not aware of any threat comparison, etc.

 

I don't exactly know what you mean by a protocol of our tests, if you want to clarify a bit I can try to answer it for you. As for the DNA box, that was not something we voted or suggested and I don't know what gave you that impression, but we were made aware of it before it was released.

 

We have given suggestions in the past for which kafra items go on sale, like rune removers, but you have to remember that we VCRs are not here to dictate to the developers what they should do - we can try to push them in the right direction but our influence is limited and communication between VCRs, CMs, and devs can be a lengthy process since the devs are in Korea and we only communicate to them via our reports through the CMs.

[Greven79]

I don't exactly know what you mean by a protocol of our tests, if you want to clarify a bit I can try to answer it for you. As for the DNA box, that was not something we voted or suggested and I don't know what gave you that impression, but we were made aware of it before it was released.

 

First part: In regard of the Silent Corridor // Assassin's Sanctum, I've never read anything that would have shown how the VCRs tested it and what their feedback was. It should also be common sense that if you're selected as a tester, your job is to make a test protocol for evaluation purposes. At least that's what I've learned as a kid in school and still using on my daily work as a software engineer.

 

Second part: I've only heared the rumors. And  there, the story was, that - at least some - VCRs were asked to state which kafra item should see a revival and that's how we ended up with DNA boxes.

 

Rumors also had it, that there was the "idea" to add level4 DNA boxes in order to balance Odin towards SEA. It wasn't realized that way, but at least, we now even have 3th~5th grade DNA boxes.

 

We have given suggestions in the past for which kafra items go on sale, like rune removers, but you have to remember that we VCRs are not here to dictate to the developers what they should do - we can try to push them in the right direction but our influence is limited and communication between VCRs, CMs, and devs can be a lengthy process since the devs are in Korea and we only communicate to them via our reports through the CMs.

 

I've never said anything about "dictating something" and just to make that clear as well: Making suggestions on kafra sales is definitely beyone the scope of a VCR role in my opinion, so I'd refuse any statements on that.

 

The story about "a lengthy process" sound like a lame excuse to me. It's not that we live in the 19th century anymore. Skype, teamviewer or other forms of instant messaging programs should be common in Korea as well. And beside all that, my bet is that they use a ticketing system there as well.

 

So if there would be a real interest in a exchange of thoughts/interest between the development and the community (japaneese business partners we've had let me doubt that), it would be a matter of days or weeks, not months... and you could expect at least a severity rating // progression feedback.

 

And beside the interchange with the developers, I would have expected other results as well (see previous posts about class-specific tests, threat challenges, etc.)

 

That's why I get to the opinion, that there's no benefit in the VCR system at all.

[Tonitrua]

First part: In regard of the Silent Corridor // Assassin's Sanctum, I've never read anything that would have shown how the VCRs tested it and what their feedback was. It should also be common sense that if you're selected as a tester, your job is to make a test protocol for evaluation purposes.

 

We went through a great deal of testing for the Silent Corridor and Assassin's Sanctum before it was released, all of which was documented and discussed in the VCR chat room and VCR forum which is why you never read anything about it, in the end some of our feedback was implemented and some wasn't.

[Greven79]

We went through a great deal of testing for the Silent Corridor and Assassin's Sanctum before it was released, all of which was documented and discussed in the VCR chat room and VCR forum which is why you never read anything about it, in the end some of our feedback was implemented and some wasn't.

 

If it's documented on an internal forum only, IMO the whole idea of the VCRs is lost already. Sad story is that all your "great deal of testing" hasn't revealed // didn't prevent the exploits // tricks there.