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#126 VModCherry

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 10:42 PM

I can see this thread starting to get quite heated...

 

Please remember this is to discuss and share ideas and suggestions about the Priest's report and overall balance. Nothing is set on stone yet and there's many things being discussed, not just what one class alone needs. 

 

This is my first warning here. I do not want to see anyone bashing on other classes. Everyone, yes everyone, is free to post feedback provided it is constructive and not aggressive and on-topic. If you personally dislike a certain other class so much, please keep it to yourself and do not let it affect your feedback here. Try and see things from others perspectives.


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#127 Electrophoric

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 01:40 AM

I'm sorry to say I'm not jealous of you class and the silly amount of damage your dots do coupled with a chain stun either...


Why are you even here?
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#128 StormHaven

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 02:42 AM

People assume fixing it hit/dodge will be a nerf to priest class. Did anyone actually think of the fact that a priest would now have no trouble ever missing their skills? You'd get alot more consistent 9-15 second stuns and have to only press the DoT button(2 of which 0cast and <1 or less cd)2-3 instead of having to press it 20+times as I see majority of priests complain about. The only thing fixing hit/dodge would do is make current overpowered classes a hell of alot more consistent. Oh and about rangers and other stealthers 1 shooting they for most part have to have +20 weapon and a high power rune vs a target with next to no refined gear.
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#129 KnightOf0

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 03:07 AM

Don't compare the current situation of ro2 to your typical mmo bible.  I mean we can do that pre-aov, everyone will agree.  Post-AoV, game is all broken.  Solo-able raid boss, 1-shot classes, 1 map and 1 dungeon for 20 levels of grinding, missing any kind of sustainable end game content.  Just to name a few.  

 

You are surprised there is class imbalance?  Let me remind you there used to be a creature called "tank".  Where are they now?  Every class is a DPS class because we gained super power + nothing hurt like it used to (and this is directly related to the lack of demand in the support department).  Are you rangers complaining about the old tanker classes stepping into your dps territory too?  They can go "full tank" and "full dps" with their 20 extra skill pts and 100 extra stat pts.

 

Once again, game is broken everyone agree, save the arguing later.  Let's be friends again.

 

 

Where am I saying that I want you to be my decoration?

 

"priests were never meant to be a competitive dps class" so you decided what priest meant to be, a class that always have the lowest dps compare to other classes.  Make them miserable in the solo aspect of the game, meaning a priest's life will be easier when as a decoration onto other higher dps.  This is what you want.

 

Where am i trying to decide what you should do?

 

Refer to previous answer.

 

Where am i saying you have to listen?

 

Refer to previous previous answer, you decided the path for priest.  Turniper  too, but too long to quote.  Can't blame anyone when game isn't going the right direction.

 

Where am I saying I am special?

 

You are not but you are trying to decide other classes' playing style so I can only assume you think you are special ( and cute and everything? ).

 

 

edit: 

 

@StormHaven, that was brought up a few times in this topic.  We know, and on the other hand the good news is the amount of 1-shotting priests will be unstoppable.  Because other classes will not miss hitting/stunning/dotting us while our dots ticks every 2 seconds (takes 15+ sec to kill someone?) and we got crap defense.  

 

I am not talking about vs ranger only, there are warrior/sorcs etc that we need to worry about.  Maybe rangers without the current hit/dodge advantage will get 1-shotted by other classes before a priest's dot kills you.  Who know?  That could be something to qq in the future.

 

That is why we have to wait and see, the possibilities are endless.  Not saying you are wrong, but the upside and downside is yet to be determined.

 

 

 


Edited by KnightOf0, 29 March 2014 - 03:24 AM.

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#130 Baddiez

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 03:22 AM

Why are you even here?

 

So I need to be jealous to be here?

 

Edit: @Knight0 There is a difference between me deciding and me pointing out a well known facts, but you win bro I give up. You keep trying to portray the priest class as a victim being picked on by the mean old rangers and every other class that comes to say something, and It seems you genuinely think that the current state of the priest class is perfectly fine. You read most arguments that are presented but not to respond logically or even potentially be convinced that your class is broken as hell, but to refute it with "We couldn't do anything before but now we can and everyone is mad that we don't have to depend on them" or something along the lines of that. Maybe you guys are not broken and once the physical damage formula for classes that use physical attack gets fixed we will do more damage and see the light (no pun intended..ok maybe just  alil pun) but regardless best of luck the to priest class and Gl priests VCRs lul.


Edited by Baddiez, 29 March 2014 - 04:01 AM.

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#131 flukeSG2

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 03:59 AM

Thank you baddiez I wrote a similar paragraph myself but deleted it because I realized there is no way to get through to him no matter how much we pray. (I too made a pun =D)

Edited by flukeSG2, 29 March 2014 - 04:06 AM.

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#132 Baddiez

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 04:17 AM

Thank you baddiez I wrote a similar paragraph myself but deleted it because I realized there is no way to get through to him no matter how much we pray. (I too made a pun =D)

 

Haha <3


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#133 DarkKurayami

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 06:20 AM

Actually Full Support Priests can do colo, I knew/know of some that would go into colo and get to the last rounds without much problem (basically killing mobs can get you to later rounds, no need to actually kill players). Even going as far as winning colo.

 

Full Support basically just heals with one attack (Holy Light) that points usually weren't added too.

 

As for Hybrids, yes they are a mix of both but not great at either, healing or DPS, but can still dish it out. Besides, usually there is also another supportive class along the party/raid (pre-AoV) such as a SM, Sorc or another Priest.

In my cause of Hybird, I have a few more points still on healing though.

 

As for DPS Priests, this I usually never supported. And made me WTF even.

I did have only once one in my party and it frustrated me to no end since not even Renovatio did she have, a skill useful for any class and to make any levelling/grinding any easier even. In fact she even got me killed since during that dungeon I'm tending to people's health, notice hers dropping, try to heal her, which in turn made me face away from the rest of the party, to see her running with mob chasing as well. Two priests die there (one Hybird another DPS). Fun.. *cough* moving on...

 

As for the no longer being "decorative" with the extra skill points, until then takes quite a while. So for a good while we're still what we started as.

And at times not easy working in parties at the moment (skill lags, d/cs and other bugs...for now anyhow).

 

However being only useful or playable with only a party is kinda a pain. Yes we may be a supportive class but we shouldn't be completely restricted as such, of course not saying we must be as powerful as the rest. Given there can be moments that person's friends or guild mates may not be on, sure you can join others but at times the time isn't much time, or the person could not easily make friends as other, as so, a priest would still like to continue to play regardless without having to go on an alternate character to do so because it being to hard to play just a bit on own (slower pace but still somewhat doable). I believe for a while this is (and may still be) an issue for Soul Maker as well, given their supportive roles as well.

 

DoTs actually do take quite a while to get to stick on another player within colo, given hit rate so on.

I haven't tried duelling in a while so I can not say as of the moment, but usually depending on the class against it can take a few tries to actually land the DoT for it to begin to do damage, of course in a duel players can use healing pets as well so I suppose somewhat may even the odds there.

Nor can I confirm this for WoE or the training ground (Jeehon).

Although again, DoTs should only be touched once the hit rate, dodge and other balancing is fixed amongst ALL classes.

 

 

Edit: Typos..oops.


Edited by DarkKurayami, 29 March 2014 - 06:29 AM.

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#134 Electrophoric

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:06 AM

Thank you baddiez I wrote a similar paragraph myself but deleted it because I realized there is no way to get through to him no matter how much we pray. (I too made a pun =D)


This is an extremely childish post. You're basicially saying that your belief is absolutely correct and no way in hell could you be wrong, ever.

How are you so sure to disregard his point of view? How are you absolutely sure there is no hole in your theory/logic? You spoke as if you could guarantee, with 100% certainty, a perfect balance for priests and other classes if the game were to be fixed the way you wanted it to.

From your attitude, it seems like there is no way for him to get through to you either, it works both way. This is a discussion where OPINIONS and personal inputs are pooled together. So unless you have the gift of foreseeing the future, please do not be so quick to conclude that others are wrong and you are right; especially for someone with a VCR status such as yourself.
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#135 flukeSG2

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

This is an extremely childish post. You're basicially saying that your belief is absolutely correct and no way in hell could you be wrong, ever.

How are you so sure to disregard his point of view? How are you absolutely sure there is no hole in your theory/logic? You spoke as if you could guarantee, with 100% certainty, a perfect balance for priests and other classes if the game were to be fixed the way you wanted it to.

From your attitude, it seems like there is no way for him to get through to you either, it works both way. This is a discussion where OPINIONS and personal inputs are pooled together. So unless you have the gift of foreseeing the future, please do not be so quick to conclude that others are wrong and you are right; especially for someone with a VCR status such as yourself.

 

No.  Just no.  Have you read anything he's said?  He is only concerned with his own game play and of no one else's, nor how his class interacts with others.  He has been accusing us of being short sighted and not seeing beyond our own class, yet looks no further than his own personal build and not how current skills affect other classes right now.  He doesn't PvP, so he doesn't care that his DoT's are over powered, or the fact that you can be a full DPS and full support at the same time.

 

I am not the only person to see this and I am not the only to try and reason with him and at this point after 6 pages of back and forth, there doesn't seem to be any way to get him to see it.


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#136 VModCherry

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:53 AM

Thread's getting derailed once again. Keep it only for feedback about the report itself, not to argue with someone else or discuss other things.


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#137 5318130516144610857

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:32 AM

One thing I quickly undertood with the advent of master classes is that some classes would benefit more than others with the 20 extra skill points, priests definitely being one of them. I assume it can be generalized to all healing classes because they all have DPS branch and support branch and a class that can heal consistently itself (and others ...) as well as provide substantial damage would make them unbalanced compared to other classes that are meant to either be damage dealers or defensive ones.This should probably be addressed, like it's being done at least by VCRs, to make the game more balanced between classes.

 

About the priest report, the Aqua Benedicta should be filed in my opinion under the C type of bug because I don't see how it is not working as intended as it is now. I see it as a skill change suggestion in order to balance SP issues between classes that mana-classes are having. Details....

 

Good report.  :no1: 


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#138 Turniper

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

Apparently the devs already have balance changes planned for April 9th so it might be best to argue about this stuff in two weeks. They'll be changing it based on earlier feedback and their own perception of what the classes should be like, so while we might not be able to "decide other class' playing style," the developers will, as this is their game.
 

Eh not sure if you use magnus 3, Oratio 1, and aspersio 1. I can do better a lot with higher aspersio and oratio level and only magnus lv 1...With max level aspersio, you can just spam it even on 10s delay..
 
Yeah magnus is nice but not because its damage, it's aspersio effect is to give 1k damage DoT to all targets
 
The only heal you need is High heal, don't even need sacrament. You can just dump all heal points to aspersio and oratio. Renovatio also stay at lv 3..


This is from a while back, maybe instead of nerfing dots, heals could be nerfed and the effect of sacrament both ways could be increased. 


Edited by Turniper, 29 March 2014 - 02:04 PM.

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#139 Sestuplo

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 01:53 PM

This is from a while back, maybe instead of nerfing dots, heals could be nerfed and the effect of sacrament could be increased. So significantly more heals with even more damage reduction.

 

 

Feedback: Pre AoV, Meditatio was a REALLY poorly worded skill. Every hit rate percentage above 95% converted into x% extra healing potency on crit. AoV, because they got rid of the Hit Percentage, Meditatio got reworked into giving x% of crit power per single point of hit.

 

This is why Priests are getting 40k heals. This is why Coluceo and Sanctuary and every other heal skill is pointless.

 

We need to scale it back a bit. There are two options, first is the obvious reduce the percentage of the potency, which won't work very well because it's still going to be powerful. The second is rework the skill so it gives the same amount of crit power per 2 or 5 hit, which will be a harder nerf but it's needed because 25k crit heals is kind of like building a sandcastle with an excavation team.


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#140 Turniper

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 02:07 PM

That's pretty embarrassin'. :x


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#141 KnightOf0

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:58 PM

No.  Just no.  Have you read anything he's said?  He is only concerned with his own game play and of no one else's, nor how his class interacts with others.  He has been accusing us of being short sighted and not seeing beyond our own class, yet looks no further than his own personal build and not how current skills affect other classes right now.  He doesn't PvP, so he doesn't care that his DoT's are over powered, or the fact that you can be a full DPS and full support at the same time.

 

I am not the only person to see this and I am not the only to try and reason with him and at this point after 6 pages of back and forth, there doesn't seem to be any way to get him to see it.

 

Let's look at yourself on mirror:

 

He is only concerned with his own game play and of no one else's, nor how his class interacts with others.

 

You are only concerned with the "OP" PvP build priests (mostly at ML 20, with x extra skill pts and y extra stats) and ignore the rest of the priests on the servers.  Or you are only concerned with making priest an easy kill for your class.

 

What I said, apply to priests below ML 20 or below level 50.  It may not apply to priests at ML 20 with 20 extra skill pts and 100 extra stat pts.  I am showing the other side that isn't being looked into, the lower level lower gear priests, priest that need farming and grinding or priests at any levels who do not find PvP entertaining. 

 

He has been accusing us of being short sighted and not seeing beyond our own class, yet looks no further than his own personal build and not how current skills affect other classes right now. 

 

Look, you are focusing on the PvP priests only, not looking at the big picture that there are other priests in the world.  You are not looking into the fact that any "skill nerf due to PvP" affects PvE too.

 

There are priests that enjoy being support, help in PvE and what not.  The changes in discussion affects all priests, yet the argument presented to pass them is only PvP PvP PvP because ranger qq.

 

He doesn't PvP, so he doesn't care that his DoT's are over powered, or the fact that you can be a full DPS and full support at the same time.

 

You don't PvE, you don't care if DoTs are nerfed 25-30% means farming is 25-30% slower.  Or that you are not a priest so any nerf to priest is good news to you.

 

I didn't say I don't PvP, I said I don't like it or enjoy it.  I wouldn't max adramous for PvP, nor would I max Judex for PvP.  I am not "OP" as you'd described it.  I rather put more points into supportive skills even though they are not needed most of the time at the current state of the game.

 

-----

 

Stop using "own game", "own build" etc as if I am the only priest that play a priest this way.  In fact, you don't know how I play my priest.  I am presenting the possibilities that are arguable but is ignored if no one brought up.  

 

For instance, what did a lvl 1 acolyte do to you ML 20 rangers that you have to make their life harder?

Or you can assume I am a level 25 priest and I find life very tough at such level, and you have to nerf me now?  What did I do to deserve that?

 

There is more than just PvP for any class.  If you only have PvP in mind, you might as well go play street fighter with your brother.


Edited by KnightOf0, 29 March 2014 - 09:59 PM.

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#142 VModCherry

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:43 PM

This has gone too far already. It was my last warning. 

 

Locking thread. 


Edited by VolunteerMod12, 29 March 2014 - 10:44 PM.

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