141 replies to this topic

[ChocoVivi]

@ knightOf0 It seems like you missed a lot of points so I'll make things easier for you:

- Please be aware that forum is not the only place we gather suggestions and comments from, nor do we hear only from priest class. 

- We were over buffed since around 3 months ago. (When other classes' DoTs were nerfed and ours buffed)

- We will probably just swap the dmg % and decide on how to nerf them later in the future

 

@KayleePepper Yes I'm looking into shorten stun duration to 3s (which mangopuddin proposed) since it seems like a quick fix for the devs to do and it will solve the chain stun problem effectively. We will not nerf the DoT's damage yet because people are complaining...I get to stay OP anyway, yay XD

[Baddiez]

@ knightOf0 It seems like you missed a lot of points so I'll make things easier for you:

- Please be aware that forum is not the only place we gather suggestions and comments from, nor do we hear only from priest class. 

- We were over buffed since around 3 months ago. (When other classes' DoTs were nerfed and ours buffed)

- We will probably just swap the dmg % and decide on how to nerf them later in the future

 

@KayleePepper Yes I'm looking into shorten stun duration to 3s (which mangopuddin proposed) since it seems like a quick fix for the devs to do and it will solve the chain stun problem effectively. We will not nerf the DoT's damage yet because people are complaining...I get to stay OP anyway, yay XD

 

It's like noone knows how priests farmed pre- we are op as now patch. lol

Edit: QQ Rangers lol.. there are like 2 priests that I can't kill and it's becuase they have +20 armour or just chain stun... priests are not hard to kill it's the surviving after they are dead that is hard as -_- QQ

Edited by Baddiez, 27 March 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[flukeSG2]

It's like noone knows how priests farmed pre- we are op as now patch. lol
Edit: QQ Rangers lol.. there are like 2 priests that I can't kill and it's becuase they have +20 armour or just chain stun... priests are not hard to kill it's the surviving after they are dead that is hard as QQ

Well I can't kill ones under geared to me, they heal too much...just saiyan.

[Electrophoric]

Well I can't kill ones under geared to me, they heal too much...just saiyan.

Have you any idea how weak our defense is? When a battle start with a ranger, I always pray that they do not 1 shot me right off the bat or step on traps. Rangers and thiefs have hide with high crit rate , which means they will ALWAYS take the first shot.

First hit + High crit rate + squishy = instant death... Sorry for being able to heal "too much" to save our butts from dying without a chance to counter or react. If you're going nerf judex + dots, at least provide us with extra defense so that we could stop praying that the first damage we receive won't end the battle.

Also, please consider that our dots do not stack. So having 3 priests in party = dot dmg of a single priest.

[flukeSG2]

Have you any idea how weak our defense is? When a battle start with a ranger, I always pray that they do not 1 shot me right off the bat or step on traps. Rangers and thiefs have hide with high crit rate , which means they will ALWAYS take the first shot.

First hit + High crit rate + squishy = instant death... Sorry for being able to heal "too much" to save our butts from dying without a chance to counter or react. If you're going nerf judex + dots, at least provide us with extra defense so that we could stop praying that the first damage we receive won't end the battle.

Also, please consider that our dots do not stack. So having 3 priests in party = dot dmg of a single priest.

 

So...priest should be able to have a build that is full support and full dps simultaneously.  Interesting.  Can I has two builds at same time yes?

 

I'm curious what level you are and who you are fighting, like what level they are. I thought we were going to have some class vs class pvp fights in stock Rank D gear+wep to help us compare skill levels.   I did a test like that with Oti, as I've already written in this thread...go read it or ask her the results.

 

I would like to do a test like that tomorrow, when I can log in and play, both classes in rank d armor, see how the fight goes.  Hell, it might change my mind even.

[DarkKurayami]

Frankly regarding the buff to our DoTs and nerf to the others, I think its more like ours are correct and the others weren't correctly put out.

Given after (when that may be) when all things are correct (hit rate, dodge, stats, so on) our DoTs may be where they should had been.

 

And not every one maximizes their DoTs. Sure, if you're at level limit and have the top gear and all the extra stats and skill points, sure. Until then, those DoTs are our bread and butter with other skills (I've somewhat kept my old build minus one skill point for the Ymir Child).

 

From what I read, knightOf0, didn't say things off poorly.

 

 

I do understand we are still overpowered since x amount of months, but so are some of the other classes...sure with issues but pretty much everyone is semi over powered at the moment.

 

However sure, remove the stun, I rarely get that off anyhow. DoTs? Wait til balances and then consider (again I state this).

Edited by DarkKurayami, 28 March 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[KnightOf0]

So...priest should be able to have a build that is full support and full dps simultaneously.  Interesting.  Can I has two builds at same time yes?

 

...

 

I would like to do a test like that tomorrow, when I can log in and play, both classes in rank d armor, see how the fight goes.  Hell, it might change my mind even.

 

Before AoV, who want to hire a DPS priest in raid or party.  So we were forced to go full support or hybrid-with-a-lot-of-skill-points-in-support-skills.  After AoV (because raids are dead), who would pick a full support priest in grind party if there are dps+support priest available.  We are not your decoration to support you when you need and let you kill us when you don't need us any more.  

 

It is the nature of our class and the nature of the game that make this possible.  Even if raids are back, we still need the ability to grind effectively while be able to support in raid.  Do you expect anyone to play a class that need to heavily depended on others in order to level up?  

 

Look at the replies in this topic: http://forums.warppo...en-youre-alone/

 

You as a dps never realize there is such problem.  Go figure, don't put yourself at the centre of the universe.

 

That is the same reason why sometimes it is hard to find priests for raid pre-AoV, the slow DPS leveling and inefficiency in farming/hunting make the priest life tougher than other dps classes.  

 

Still that is not even full support + full dps, when you are doing damage (more like trying to land some dots) you can't heal that's a fact.  You are still at an advantage because any other dps class have faster/higher dps than priests.

 

About the tests, how are stats going to be dealt with?  Are you going to throw in 4 stats reset scrolls?

 

 

 

However sure, remove the stun, I rarely get that off anyhow. DoTs? Wait til balances and then consider (again I state this).

 

^ has been saying something like that since forever.

 

 

priests are not hard to kill it's the surviving after they are dead that is hard

 

 

Don't know where you mean (because i don't pvp enough to know?):

 

case 1: in colo, dots are already nerfed because class stats are standardized so they are far from the 3k dots we are talking about (throw in my lack of base agi, they don't even land often).

 

case 2: in pvp, battle ends when a winner is determined.  You can't die after.

 

case 3: in woe, well it isn't made to be 1vs1 that is why it's called a "war".  Too bad if you want to be sneaky and solo kill ppl on the map.  When in real woe, you should have a guild healer that will heal you somewhat?

 

case 4: ???

Edited by KnightOf0, 28 March 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[PandeeChio]

Before AoV, who want to hire a DPS priest in raid or party.  So we were forced to go full support or hybrid-with-a-lot-of-skill-points-in-support-skills.  After AoV (because raids are dead), who would pick a full support priest in grind party if there are dps+support priest available.  We are not your decoration to support you when you need and let you kill us when you don't need us any more.  

 

It is the nature of our class and the nature of the game that make this possible.  Even if raids are back, we still need the ability to grind effectively while be able to support in raid.  Do you expect anyone to play a class that need to heavily depended on others in order to level up?  

 

Look at the replies in this topic: http://forums.warppo...en-youre-alone/

 

You as a dps never realize there is such problem.  Go figure, don't put yourself at the centre of the universe.

 

That is the same reason why sometimes it is hard to find priests for raid pre-AoV, the slow DPS leveling and inefficiency in farming/hunting make the priest life tougher than other dps classes.  

 

Still that is not even full support + full dps, when you are doing damage (more like trying to land some dots) you can't heal that's a fact.  You are still at an advantage because any other dps class have faster/higher dps than priests.

 

 

 

Define "Full Support" 

"

"Look at the replies in this topic: http://forums.warppo...en-youre-alone/" this is old topic, and btw you can farm those skill points now

[Turniper]

If I recall, Kirito wasn't a priest. If you're a priest and can't kill things but you're really good at keeping yourself and others alive, what you do is you find a friend or friends who're really good at killing things, but bad at keeping themselves alive. If you decide to spec as a DPS priest, then please understand that you're trading your ability to keep yourself and others alive for the ability to kill other things. Hybrid priests are somewhere in between but not nearly as good at killing or keeping alive as someone who specs specifically for the purpose of killing things or keeping them, and their friends alive.

 

One thing that's been bugging me since the QQing started:

 

In no MMO EVER does anyone choose a support class with the expectation of doing high damage.

 

If people playing this game for the first time specifically choose a support class, then the expectation is that they'll be doing support. If they quit because their damage is too low then it's an honest shame that the distinction wasn't made clear enough at the start.

 

http://www.playragna...ameInfo/Classes

[Baddiez]

Does no one realize priests were never meant to be a competitive dps class? Knight I'm going to assume and I hope that I am wrong that you began to play priests after Aov??

[PandeeChio]

Does no one realize priests were never meant to be a competitive dps class? Knight I'm going to assume and I hope that I am wrong that you began to play priests after Aov??

Don't hope :/ it's bad for your health.

[flukeSG2]

Before AoV, who want to hire a DPS priest in raid or party. So we were forced to go full support or hybrid-with-a-lot-of-skill-points-in-support-skills. After AoV (because raids are dead), who would pick a full support priest in grind party if there are dps+support priest available. We are not your decoration to support you when you need and let you kill us when you don't need us any more.

It is the nature of our class and the nature of the game that make this possible. Even if raids are back, we still need the ability to grind effectively while be able to support in raid. Do you expect anyone to play a class that need to heavily depended on others in order to level up?

Look at the replies in this topic: http://forums.warppo...en-youre-alone/

You as a dps never realize there is such problem. Go figure, don't put yourself at the centre of the universe.

That is the same reason why sometimes it is hard to find priests for raid pre-AoV, the slow DPS leveling and inefficiency in farming/hunting make the priest life tougher than other dps classes.

Still that is not even full support + full dps, when you are doing damage (more like trying to land some dots) you can't heal that's a fact. You are still at an advantage because any other dps class have faster/higher dps than priests.

About the tests, how are stats going to be dealt with? Are you going to throw in 4 stats reset scrolls?



^ has been saying something like that since forever.




Don't know where you mean (because i don't pvp enough to know?):

case 1: in colo, dots are already nerfed because class stats are standardized so they are far from the 3k dots we are talking about (throw in my lack of base agi, they don't even land often).

case 2: in pvp, battle ends when a winner is determined. You can't die after.

case 3: in woe, well it isn't made to be 1vs1 that is why it's called a "war". Too bad if you want to be sneaky and solo kill ppl on the map. When in real woe, you should have a guild healer that will heal you somewhat?

case 4: ???

^ this guy...talks about how we can't see anything beyond our own class, when there are several classes participating in the conversation more or less agreeing that you should not be able to do full healing while maintaining full dps. Then goes on to say he doesn't PvP much and then proceeds with a bunch of assumptions regarding Colo, duels and woe PvP. None of which were right.

At this point, I have to ask, is this guy the best troll yet? I think so.

[samsam2610]

Have you any idea how weak our defense is? When a battle start with a ranger, I always pray that they do not 1 shot me right off the bat or step on traps. Rangers and thiefs have hide with high crit rate , which means they will ALWAYS take the first shot.

First hit + High crit rate + squishy = instant death... Sorry for being able to heal "too much" to save our butts from dying without a chance to counter or react. If you're going nerf judex + dots, at least provide us with extra defense so that we could stop praying that the first damage we receive won't end the battle.

Also, please consider that our dots do not stack. So having 3 priests in party = dot dmg of a single priest.

With current dodge/hit rate, assuming that a ranger can hit a priest for 70% of successful, and his/her crit rate is 40%. It means that coming out of hiding, there is 70% you will be hitted by a that ranger, and 40% of that 70% that the hit will be a crit. Totally, there is 28% that you be critted with a ranger that comes out of hiding. What will happen to that ranger if his/her first shot isn't crit? Helplessly watching that priest runs around, tried to land dots while heals him/her-self and witnesses your painful dead?

 

Even if the hit is successfully crit, there is still chance that the hit will be reduced by half by your parry ~30% !! Hence, the actual chance of being crit by a hiding ranger is ~20%. I'm not saying 1-shot because if the two's gears are almost equal, there would be ~5%-15% HP left for priest even after being critted! 1 out of 5 trials, is that number still too big for you? 

[Lherana]

In my opinion I'd hold off messing with dots because we have yet to see the other classes at their full potential.

 

+1 sir!

 

This is why during the elections i said i really hoped whoever gets elected, knows how to play and understands not just the priest class but also other classes.

[Baddiez]

Revert to pre-aov stats and just wait for QQ... *grabs popcorn.

[KayleePepper]

If priests aren't meant to DPS competitively then what's the point in priests attending colo? Should priests just keep healing themselves all the time and pray to the gods that the rest of the colo participants somehow manage to kill each other? Yet people wonder why there's not enough priests when you need them in dungeons and parties.

 

 

That is the same reason why sometimes it is hard to find priests for raid pre-AoV, the slow DPS leveling and inefficiency in farming/hunting make the priest life tougher than other dps classes.  

 

AMEN!

[Turniper]

Priests were great in colo pre-AoV despite not having competitive dps. Certain tanks that I knew back then could also make it to the last round consistently because they also knew how to get around having low comparative dps.

[flukeSG2]

Revert to pre-aov stats and just wait for QQ... *grabs popcorn.

no Michael Jackson gif? I love that gif

[KnightOf0]

Does no one realize priests were never meant to be a competitive dps class? Knight I'm going to assume and I hope that I am wrong that you began to play priests after Aov??

 

Further confirmation that rangers just want all other classes to be their decoration.  Why do you get to decide what a priest should do and we priest have to listen?  What make you so special?   

 

A class shouldn't be limited to party play only and left alone be useless when there is no one around.  Are you saying it's fine that "yes priest should only be in party and go afk when there is none?"  Topic is old does not mean it is not true for full supporter.

 

I am not even talking about being competitive to other dps, simply being able to not need to depend on others to play = not being full support = not being decoration, you don't allow that?  I already said that post-aov, do you still see value in a full support priest?  When nothing hurt and willow can take care of the healing?  There were times when I try to join a grind party and the recruiter said they don't need heal LOL.  So AoV give us the power to grind because we need to level again?  Don't be jelly.

 

If you read previous posts you know your assumption is false.

[Lherana]

Well I can't kill ones under geared to me, they heal too much...just saiyan.

 

 

I believe that ,in any game, this is how priest classes are supposed to work. They should be able to out heal any dps dished out on them...

 

in order to kill them, you need to be able to disable them or have multiple source of dps i.e. gank them...

 

Now this doesn't mean that I agree with nerfing the priests DoTs... I believe how it's supposed to work is, priests should have a hard time making their DoTs hit, which can be addressed by fixing the hit/dodge balancing. The thing is I believe this game is trying to give every class the chance to be at par with one another, hence you get a support class with dps skills and a dps class with support skills. On top of this, there is the stat bonus variation per class.

 

Imagine a scenario where all other classes are at their full potential:

 

i.e. Ranger at full potential: (with bonus on hit rate)+the speed at which they make their dps land (supposedly definition of a ranger): any priests would end up being busy trying to outheal the dps served to them while trying to make a DoT stick...

 

i.e. Rogue at full potential: (with bonus on dodge rate)+ stealth on/off skill + disabling skill: at full potential (meaning with full combo points), this class can disable a priest and one hit them ( if they get to hit properly, and not have to chase after a freshly fractured opponent.  Current view bug: when their CM skill hits, the opponent slides away and says "Out of range")...

 

i.e. Priest at full potential: can kill another priest by stun locking them and DoTing them... {which is what we have at present} ...this is why i believe that 30 sec CD on stun would be not so wise...

 

i.e. Warrior at full potential: has around 2 disabling skills and supposedly by definition can switch between offensive and defensive mode+ leap skills for chasing after opponent: with functioning 2 disabling skills, and a lot of skills that can leap towards an opponent, if they hit properly...imagine the possibilities...

 

i.e. Sorc at full potential: (with bonus on critical hits)+ supposedly have handy disabling skills (CB,FD, stun from VS if it actually hits)= semi support/disabler/nuker...

 

i.e. Knight at full potential: you know how our dps varies based on boss def at PvE? This should also apply to knight if their def skills work or for any other class with def skills...

 

Defense is one factor I would like to affect DoTs (any class' DoT).

 

This is why I am standing by ... waiting for Devs to actually deliver  that balancing scheme before nerfing the skills of any class. Skill nerfing can come later when Devs have actually resolved the issue with stats and its effects for each class.

[Baddiez]

Further confirmation that rangers just want all other classes to be their decoration.  Why do you get to decide what a priest should do and we priest have to listen?  What make you so special?   

 

A class shouldn't be limited to party play only and left alone be useless when there is no one around.  Are you saying it's fine that "yes priest should only be in party and go afk when there is none?"  Topic is old does not mean it is not true for full supporter.

 

I am not even talking about being competitive to other dps, simply being able to not need to depend on others to play = not being full support = not being decoration, you don't allow that?  I already said that post-aov, do you still see value in a full support priest?  When nothing hurt and willow can take care of the healing?  There were times when I try to join a grind party and the recruiter said they don't need heal LOL.  So AoV give us the power to grind because we need to level again?  Don't be jelly.

 

If you read previous posts you know your assumption is false.

 

Where am I saying that I want you to be my decoration?

Where am i trying to decide what you should do?

Where am i saying you have to listen?

Where am I saying I am special?

I'm sorry to say I'm not jealous of you class and the silly amount of damage your dots do coupled with a chain stun either... 

[flukeSG2]

I'm not going to bother with the quotes, they take up too much space.

Simply put, priests should have 3 basic builds ( of course you can tweak for desired effect) -

1. Full Support (or as knightof0 calls it "decoration build" in this build your main objective is to support other classes by healing, you shouldn't be attacking.

2. Hybrid Support/DPS with this build you should have mid range heal abilities and mid range DPS strength, you should not be relied on to heal an entire party or to take on mobs individually but with minor assistance.

3. Full DPS, you should have minimal heal abilities and maximum DPS allowed by you class, you should be able to solo some mobs and bosses like other classes and have to use potions to aid your heal abilities.

This is basic MMO design. The problem being is you don't have to choose any of those builds now, you can have maximum heal and maximum DPs right now. You don't see a problem with that? Doesn't that make rangers YOUR decoration instead? We are only a DPs class, we don't get to rely on self heal to counter your attacks, like you can ours.

To address the other comment about priests on healing DPS, yes as a support class healer you should out heal my DPS. However, you should not be able to drop a dot on me and seconds later I am dead from it.

Seriously, how much clearer does this have to be? This is how it was pre- AoV. You choose what build suits your personal play style and you go with it.

[Sestuplo]

Seriously, how much clearer does this have to be? This is how it was pre- AoV. You choose what build suits your personal play style and you go with it.

 

Pre-AoV, people also needed to get healed.

 

 

Once a priest attains 20 additional skill points from ML, there's no such thing as full support build anymore.

 

This too.

Edited by Sestuplo, 28 March 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[KayleePepper]

Once a priest attains 20 additional skill points from ML, there's no such thing as full support build anymore.

[Lherana]

I'm not going to bother with the quotes, they take up too much space.

Simply put, priests should have 3 basic builds ( of course you can tweak for desired effect) -

1. Full Support (or as knightof0 calls it "decoration build" in this build your main objective is to support other classes by healing, you shouldn't be attacking.

2. Hybrid Support/DPS with this build you should have mid range heal abilities and mid range DPS strength, you should not be relied on to heal an entire party or to take on mobs individually but with minor assistance.

3. Full DPS, you should have minimal heal abilities and maximum DPS allowed by you class, you should be able to solo some mobs and bosses like other classes and have to use potions to aid your heal abilities.

This is basic MMO design. The problem being is you don't have to choose any of those builds now, you can have maximum heal and maximum DPs right now. You don't see a problem with that? Doesn't that make rangers YOUR decoration instead? We are only a DPs class, we don't get to rely on self heal to counter your attacks, like you can ours.

To address the other comment about priests on healing DPS, yes as a support class healer you should out heal my DPS. However, you should not be able to drop a dot on me and seconds later I am dead from it.

Seriously, how much clearer does this have to be? This is how it was pre- AoV. You choose what build suits your personal play style and you go with it.

 

unfortunately I believe with ro2, this isn't the direction our Devs are going for... or else they would'nt allow us to buy more skills... also take note, there's going to be 30 more Master levels to go... which I assume 30 more skill points... I believe the Devs have a different plan for the game dynamics...

 

and rangers, wont be decoration as I pointed out if they get to fix the status balancing...

 

 

Now this doesn't mean that I agree with nerfing the priests DoTs... I believe how it's supposed to work is, priests should have a hard time making their DoTs hit, which can be addressed by fixing the hit/dodge balancing. The thing is I believe this game is trying to give every class the chance to be at par with one another, hence you get a support class with dps skills and a dps class with support skills. On top of this, there is the stat bonus variation per class.

....i think you missed this part... what that would mean is they should make DoTs harder to stick but don't make them useless... hence, my stand on fixing that dodge/hit and the rest of the bonus per class stat effect