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Morroc of Satan or something like that.


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#1 Campitor

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:06 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtr

 

We are looking at adding the content that will bring the Satan Morroc encounter. However as with previous updates we want to learn from issues that happened in the past. We are proposing the following changes to the Satan Morroc encounter.

 

1. Increase his HP 20%

2. Limit deaths on the map to 10 before forced respawn - for this we are trying to discourage suicide reflect killing. We don't want to prevent all reflect based kill methods but it our desire that the person being hit stay alive. Were setting the deaths pretty high because we do know that Satan Morroc will kill you.

3. 8 Random teleport in locations. Players upon entering the map will teleport to a random location. Parties who enter together will end up at the same location.

    *First party member who enters will determine the location by where he enters on the map

    *Every other person in the party on the map that first party member enters from will be able to goto that one location once.

    *If a party member enters from that entrance map that was not on the map when the first party member went in he will rerandomize the location for the entire party that has yet to enter

5. Number 4 is out of order.

4. No return portal to leave the Satan Morroc Map. Players will instead receive an item similar to the Prontera Pass that returns them to Morroc City so that they can leave at will.

     *Our plan for this is not to punish TKMs. The entrance to DM will be at the same place the return scrolls move you to. Please see number 7 for the reason why.

6. Ice Wall will be disabled due to the way it interacts with monster's AI

7. Requirement of completing Dandelion's Request in order to enter the encounter (storyline thing we are also planning stories for after this implementation.)

     *Were not planning on doing any of the continental guard quests. Morroc will most likely be spared destruction of people keep Satan Morroc defeated enough. Instead the Rune Midgard will take a different direction. The rewards for defeating this guy will still be the same but be awarded by the one Dandelion member who doesn't want to see Satan Morroc take over the planet.

 

*Disabling of God Items is not currently on the table.

*Keeping the 8 hour respawn is desirable so that Early Morning, Afternoon, and Late night players will each have a chance of killing him.

 

Spoiler

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#2 josechen

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:08 AM

1


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#3 sb120495

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

Wrong place but can you do something like this for the mvp summoner in renewal?It's 2ez the way it is.

 

Also,what's with the cat and why isn't it a dog?


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#4 Xellie

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:16 AM

I assume this is about wounded morroc.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtr

 

We are looking at adding the content that will bring the Satan Morroc encounter. However as with previous updates we want to learn from issues that happened in the past. We are proposing the following changes to the Satan Morroc encounter.

 

1. Increase his HP 20%

 

Not really necessary, SM is a hard fight.

 

 

2. Limit deaths on the map to 10 before forced respawn - for this we are trying to discourage suicide reflect killing. We don't want to prevent all reflect based kill methods but it our desire that the person being hit stay alive. Were setting the deaths pretty high because we do know that Satan Morroc will kill you.

 

This is a bit harsh but I can see it. However there's this little skill called NPC_HELLPOWER

 

"Hell's Power is a negative status effect that can be cast onto a player. If the skill hits, a purple skull shows up on the targeted players screen as indication that he suffers from Hell's Power. While this status effect is active (3~5 minutes) and the player dies, the skill Resurrection won't have any effect (which means players with Hell's Power status can't be resurrected). This status can not be canceled by relogging."

 

 

Hell's power is currently activated at between 51%-60% of Morroc's HP remaining following wide sleep. The question is whether this is kicked out on X deaths (champs tend to die more often than they should) is necessary on top of this.  I honestly think the disabling of eske/bg set on the map is the way to go when it comes to discouraging reflect killing.

 

3. 8 Random teleport in locations. Players upon entering the map will teleport to a random location. Parties who enter together will end up at the same location.

    *First party member who enters will determine the location by where he enters on the map

    *Every other person in the party on the map that first party member enters from will be able to goto that one location once.

    *If a party member enters from that entrance map that was not on the map when the first party member went in he will rerandomize the location for the entire party that has yet to enter

 

sounds ok.

 

5. Number 4 is out of order.

You're out of order!
 

 

4. No return portal to leave the Satan Morroc Map. Players will instead receive an item similar to the Prontera Pass that returns them to Morroc City so that they can leave at will.

 

You really hate TKMs don't you? ¬.¬ Please don't do this. It hurts people who hunt and level on the map outside of MVPing.

 

6. Ice Wall will be disabled due to the way it interacts with monster's AI

 

Or the way the AI doesn't interact with icewall!!1!!1!

 

 

.

Requirement of completing Dandelion's Request in order to enter the encounter (storyline thing we are also planning stories for after this implementation.)

 

No. Nononoononononononono. no no no no nnonono the seal of continental guard quest was annoying enough


Edited by Xellie, 10 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.

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#5 Rang

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:29 AM

7. Requirement of completing Dandelion's Request in order to enter the encounter (storyline thing we are also planning stories for after this implementation.)

 

This is enough to discourage me from ever participating. Please do not require pointless quests that are not at all fun to do.


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#6 Myzery

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:50 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtr

 

We are looking at adding the content that will bring the Satan Morroc encounter. However as with previous updates we want to learn from issues that happened in the past. We are proposing the following changes to the Satan Morroc encounter.

 

1. Increase his HP 20%

2. Limit deaths on the map to 10 before forced respawn - for this we are trying to discourage suicide reflect killing. We don't want to prevent all reflect based kill methods but it our desire that the person being hit stay alive. Were setting the deaths pretty high because we do know that Satan Morroc will kill you.

3. 8 Random teleport in locations. Players upon entering the map will teleport to a random location. Parties who enter together will end up at the same location.

    *First party member who enters will determine the location by where he enters on the map

    *Every other person in the party on the map that first party member enters from will be able to goto that one location once.

    *If a party member enters from that entrance map that was not on the map when the first party member went in he will rerandomize the location for the entire party that has yet to enter

5. Number 4 is out of order.

4. No return portal to leave the Satan Morroc Map. Players will instead receive an item similar to the Prontera Pass that returns them to Morroc City so that they can leave at will.

6. Ice Wall will be disabled due to the way it interacts with monster's AI

7. Requirement of completing Dandelion's Request in order to enter the encounter (storyline thing we are also planning stories for after this implementation.)

 

Spoiler

 

Don't put in #7, you already have to do a quest to kill him.

You guys have a bad track record for anything quest related.


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#7 Campitor

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:51 AM

This is enough to discourage me from ever participating. Please do not require pointless quests that are not at all fun to do.

 

 

I assume this is about wounded morroc.

 

 

 

Not really necessary, SM is a hard fight.

 

 

 

This is a bit harsh but I can see it. However there's this little skill called NPC_HELLPOWER

 

"Hell's Power is a negative status effect that can be cast onto a player. If the skill hits, a purple skull shows up on the targeted players screen as indication that he suffers from Hell's Power. While this status effect is active (3~5 minutes) and the player dies, the skill Resurrection won't have any effect (which means players with Hell's Power status can't be resurrected). This status can not be canceled by relogging."

 

 

Hell's power is currently activated at between 51%-60% of Morroc's HP remaining following wide sleep. The question is whether this is kicked out on X deaths (champs tend to die more often than they should) is necessary on top of this.  I honestly think the disabling of eske/bg set on the map is the way to go when it comes to discouraging reflect killing.

 

sounds ok.

 

You're out of order!
 

 

You really hate TKMs don't you? ¬.¬ Please don't do this. It hurts people who hunt and level on the map outside of MVPing.

 

 

Or the way the AI doesn't interact with icewall!!1!!1!

 

 

.

No. Nononoononononononono. no no no no nnonono the seal of continental guard quest was annoying enough

 

 

Don't put in #7, you already have to do a quest to kill him.

You guys have a bad track record for anything quest related.

#7 is a replacement for the Guard quest.


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#8 heyxsean

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:43 PM

in the mean time can we just get the maps and you guys can implement whatever stupid thing you come up with for the mvp later ...?


Edited by heyxsean, 10 April 2014 - 12:53 PM.

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#9 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:52 PM

Why not just disable ice wall and reflect? Not very complicated.

 

“Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.” 
― Confucius


Edited by iamvrypwrful, 10 April 2014 - 12:53 PM.

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#10 cybernetic

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:02 PM

Respawn on x deaths isn't needed as NPC_HELLPOWER exists.

 

Disable reflect, icewall, eske.


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#11 Tolrin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:32 PM

I liked everything in your post up until all of the proposed changes.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I liked classic RO the way it was, and I play this server because it's the closest thing I can get to the way things used to be.  Every time something is randomly changed, it makes me less interested in things.  I like adding new things, the bayalan dungeon was an interesting experiment and I think you guys could get a lot of mileage out of things like that, but modifying old content that people liked is terrible, just look at what it did to biolabs.  That map still hasn't been fixed, and it's still a place nobody goes, and I'd hate to see dimensional gorge reduced to the same thing.

 

Also, if you are planning to replace the continental guard quest, are the accessories going to be obtainable in some other fashion?


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#12 Xellie

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:56 PM

I  liked classic RO the way it was, and I play this server because it's the closest thing I can get to the way things used to be.  Every time something is randomly changed, it makes me less interested in things.  I like adding new things, the bayalan dungeon was an interesting experiment and I think you guys could get a lot of mileage out of things like that, but modifying old content that people liked is terrible, just look at what it did to biolabs.  That map still hasn't been fixed, and it's still a place nobody goes, and I'd hate to see dimensional gorge reduced to the same thing.

 

Where were you when they changed the God Item creation then? #rolleyes

 

Changes can be good, so long as they're not too great. Seeing every mvp reduced to reflect-fests took away from me a lot of the old RO that I remember. It's very sad.
 


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#13 Tolrin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:53 PM

I was here, posting similar things, I said that the proper solution to the god item problem was simply reducing quest completion requirement from 100 to 50, like they did on other low population servers.  From my perspective, no custom change that has been implemented on this server has ever been positive.  There have been some that were not outright negative, but there are plenty of examples of changes that have reduced the games playability and reduced overall interest in the server.  I believe all of these proposed changes fall into one of these two categories as well, which to me means time would be better spent on other things.

 

I believe there is a popular phrase that goes something like "if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it."  Dimensional gorge was never broken.  It was never a problem, people used the maps to level on, people hunted items, there was a difficult boss with lots of competition over it.


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#14 WarlockFier

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:11 PM

This is tempting me to play Classic.. I liked the story for this quest a lot and actually want to try it but it doesn't exist on Renewal anymore! =O Time to level my poor wizzie on it? :3


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#15 Xellie

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

I was here, posting similar things, I said that the proper solution to the god item problem was simply reducing quest completion requirement from 100 to 50, like they did on other low population servers.  From my perspective, no custom change that has been implemented on this server has ever been positive.  There have been some that were not outright negative, but there are plenty of examples of changes that have reduced the games playability and reduced overall interest in the server.  I believe all of these proposed changes fall into one of these two categories as well, which to me means time would be better spent on other things.

 

I believe there is a popular phrase that goes something like "if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it."  Dimensional gorge was never broken.  It was never a problem, people used the maps to level on, people hunted items, there was a difficult boss with lots of competition over it.

 

I disagree, some of the custom changes have been really good. The early map spawn changes CTHO, batholians, prison 1 were really nice. The buffed magma spawn is good too. If you can't say you enjoyed one of those earlier spawns all I can say is that you afked your way through the server's life much like you afk through woe.

 

What's the issue with having to fight the boss without cheesing it? I really want to know why you're so against one of the hardest bosses in the game actually being a challenge.


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#16 Rythen

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

The only things you should do for Satan Morroc:

  1. Disable Ice Wall
  2. Disable Eske

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#17 Tolrin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

I'm not against fighting a boss at all, what I am against is dictating the way players play the game.  If you don't want someone to "cheese" a boss, all you have to do is show up with a party to fight it.  With a party fighting a boss, literally every "cheese" tactic that people use is immediately invalidated.  Not to mention the fact that no matter how you look at it, killing wounded morroc was never easy.  Certain tactics were developed to allow smaller groups of players to successfully kill him, but at no point was it "easy" to do, and as you reduce the number of available players, you increase the difficulty involved.

 

As far as monster spawns, certainly increased monster spawns on some maps is positive, but I wouldn't really call that custom changes, I'm looking more at things like account bound gears, removal of area spawn monsters, switching thors 1 and 2, delaying the implementation of WoE at the start of the server, and other things that removed or modified existing content.  Adding things to the game is fine by me for the most part especially when it encourages people to play, but I just don't like it when things are taken away.


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#18 Victoryblood

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:01 PM

1. not a problem, might be a problem for smaller parties

2. a more simpler option is to just disable reflect, iw, eske, etc.

3. same as 1

5. our champs are starving for some diabolical onion rings

4. why hate on tkms BR0?

6. same as 2

7. dunno might be complicated


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#19 Xellie

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:10 PM

I'm not against fighting a boss at all, what I am against is dictating the way players play the game.  If you don't want someone to "cheese" a boss, all you have to do is show up with a party to fight it.  With a party fighting a boss, literally every "cheese" tactic that people use is immediately invalidated.  Not to mention the fact that no matter how you look at it, killing wounded morroc was never easy.  Certain tactics were developed to allow smaller groups of players to successfully kill him, but at no point was it "easy" to do, and as you reduce the number of available players, you increase the difficulty involved.

 

As far as monster spawns, certainly increased monster spawns on some maps is positive, but I wouldn't really call that custom changes, I'm looking more at things like account bound gears, removal of area spawn monsters, switching thors 1 and 2, delaying the implementation of WoE at the start of the server, and other things that removed or modified existing content.  Adding things to the game is fine by me for the most part especially when it encourages people to play, but I just don't like it when things are taken away.

 

Except when a party is cheesing it with eske, it becomes untankable and uncompetable with "normal" methods. No sane game developer is going to look at the way icewall works on RO and say "Hey that is an amazing tactic for small parties! What a great idea!" the same applies to the idea of being able to die as hard as possible over and over.
 

SM with icewall is extremely easy. it barely fights back, it hardly does any threatening skills. One skilled HW with icewall can handle that MVP and make him a kitten.

 

Methinks if reflect wasn't so viable, maybe people would care about making better gear/items and it would spread through the game as more active gameplay. I may be an idealist, but I can dream.

 

And delaying the implementation of WoE was the best thing they could ever do given the circumstances. What happened on Valk server was a disaster.... I'm sure nobody wanted a repeat of that.


Edited by Xellie, 10 April 2014 - 04:13 PM.

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#20 heyxsean

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:03 PM

i want a repeat of that.

 

put in map por favor ... xellie just finding things to argue with tolrin ... satan morroc drop will not have any impact on the server, just put it in and let it be cheesed or whatever.

 

i just want stupid diabolus rings and it's not happening because of a useless mvp c'mon lol


Edited by heyxsean, 10 April 2014 - 05:04 PM.

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#21 HikariYari

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

I would say just put it in the way it used to be. Don't change anything seeing as the team doesn't have a good track record with changes.


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#22 Tolrin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:13 PM

Eskeing a monster that someone else is tanking is skill abuse, and therefor bannable, I don't see the problem with that.  As for valk server being a disaster... you mean where lots of players and guilds were motivated to do stuff, and there was a healthy guild scene with many participants and active players, so much so that it often caused server instability issues during woe?  Personally I'd have taken that over so many players losing interest and leaving before WoE was ever implemented on this server.

 

Finally, icewall is one of my very favourite PvM skills in the game.  A big part of the reason I enjoy it so much is because of how broken it is, it's the kind of mechanic you don't find in more modern MMOs, and it's the kind of thing I personally really enjoy about RO.  It being disabled so much on this server made me very disappointed, to the point where I didn't even get it on my wizard.  Obviously there seems to be a lot of people who very much dislike the skill, including the GM team, but it is certainly not a unanimous sentiment.


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#23 HikariYari

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:20 PM

Also, how would one even clear the dandelions request in the first place? It requires you to enter morroc castle and a small minority of players only have Destroyed morroc.


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#24 RonSilver

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:20 PM

why change the quest? just leave it as it was.


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#25 Xellie

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:37 PM

Eskeing a monster that someone else is tanking is skill abuse, and therefor bannable, I don't see the problem with that.  As for valk server being a disaster... you mean where lots of players and guilds were motivated to do stuff, and there was a healthy guild scene with many participants and active players, so much so that it often caused server instability issues during woe?  Personally I'd have taken that over so many players losing interest and leaving before WoE was ever implemented on this server.

 

Finally, icewall is one of my very favourite PvM skills in the game.  A big part of the reason I enjoy it so much is because of how broken it is, it's the kind of mechanic you don't find in more modern MMOs, and it's the kind of thing I personally really enjoy about RO.  It being disabled so much on this server made me very disappointed, to the point where I didn't even get it on my wizard.  Obviously there seems to be a lot of people who very much dislike the skill, including the GM team, but it is certainly not a unanimous sentiment.

 

You might want to tell your guild that thing about eske and tanking then.

 

 

If you want to discuss the valk server thing, you can PM me. What I have to say about it might surprise you and will shed a lot of light on the current situation on classic. Valk and all other servers were bigger back then. Guild population and server action is dependent on a few individuals within the WoE scene.  I was pulling an attendance of 70 when WoE first started on Classic, I will say that was fairly healthy.

 

The impact on population was a result of the account bound stuff and rampant cheating not being dealt with. The removal of Icewall didn't really affect our [VH guild] playerbase that much. Sure we were sad about it but only in that it required more skill than eske / token spamming. And whilst some staff decisions have hurt the population a bit, they are nothing compared to the community driven influences that make people stop playing.

 

I have people in my guild who want to do MVPs the way they were intended. Not stacking up the results of some poorly thought out situations. I also know a lot of people who don't play because they hate the community mindset that actually playing (as opposed to spamming reflect/res or icewall-no-danger-fist) is a bad thing. I don't really care what people do in instances, reflect and eske and icewall away. But those things actually lock out competition and create a pretty bs environment where someone who can't keep themselves alive is rewarded.

 

But I'll say this, if eske/reflect is enabled then icewall should be. Ideally get rid of both and lets see how good people actually are at the game after a decade of playing.

Whenever I killed SM on old chaos, I never reflect killed, or portal fisted, or icewalled it. We straight up tanked it and took that MVP on man-mode. I want to do that again, because that sense of teamwork has been missing from classic outside of WoE.  (aside from the god quest but lol let's not even go there)
 


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