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Upcoming Skill Changes(Pt. 2); Templar, Tempest, and Radiant

Started by ShazamO , Apr 21 2014 01:13 PM

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#1 ShazamO

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:13 PM

Templar.png

Tempest.pngRadiant.png

 

Alteris mentioned in previous Live-Streams that the Development team wanted to make significant changes to the classes of Requiem Online, mainly in the Skill department. There have been discussions already regarding most of the classes and we want YOUR feedback! This is the 2nd Thread created regarding about the upcoming changes. You can find the previous ones here...
Protector/Commander Discussion

With your feedback, we would really prefer if you added reasoning behind your suggestion. Mainly in the "Math" of it. You would need to detail why this skill needs a 5 second stun or why it would deal x2 Critical Damage and so forth. The more details, the better!

EX:: 

Radiant_Hush.gifHush :: At Level 5, if Hush is successful.. it should deal 2% of the current HP of the target. At Max Level(10), it should deal up to 5% of the current HP of the target. Along with the silence effect.

 

Currently, we are going over the Templar, Tempest, and Radiant Class. If you need any/more detail on these classes, please click on the links provided.

 

Your feedback/suggestions WILL help shape the future of these classes Temperions so please provide your feedback today! Please provide feedback for only the Templar, Tempest, and Radiant for now. We will be going over other classes in the near future. Keep in mind that you can reference other classes comparatively but the main focus will be on the Templar, Tempest, and Radiant Class. 

 

Skill Information

 

Here...


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#2 Helium

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:23 PM

Spoiler


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#3 NemesisDemon

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:29 PM

Uh... so wheres the skill change thread for elem/druid?  Thought that was the next most important set of classes to look at. -.-


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#4 Cleffy

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:44 PM

Make sleep affected by any damage except for [lightning] based magic. This would make it useful strictly for Templar type classes instead of anyone who can pew pew.

Get rid of any and all stuns. I am not sure if they have any since I don't know the class too well, but stuns should be removed from the game as long as they don't have a clear method of breaking out of them. Multi-second unavoidable stuns are the main reason for people not playing melee characters.

 

Finally heals... Make the heals based on a percent of casters HP. This makes skill points invested in heal usable at all levels. Then dramatically increase the cooldown time on heals and resurrection. This is suppose to be a horror based game. Having a system where the player is constantly being healed goes against horror game mentality. HP management is suppose to be a key concern and strategically using the heals available is a key element to healer based classes. This would increase strategy and the point of this class. It would also increase the appeal for Templars and Radiants in parties as they have more healing options.

 

Edited Holy to Lightning.


Edited by Cleffy, 21 April 2014 - 09:40 PM.

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#5 Jabrody

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:47 PM

Uh... so wheres the skill change thread for elem/druid?  Thought that was the next most important set of classes to look at. -.-



Probably coming in a few weeks.

as Helium stated:
 

...After the (week 1) Defender, Commander, and Protector thread: Templar (and 2nd Jobs); Warrior (and 2nd Jobs); etc.
- At that pace it will take 8 weeks to complete the initial feedback. Then 2 to 4 weeks to make changes. Then proposals post and feedback (which will not be divided into per Job threads), so 1 week there. Then (to be safe) another 2 to 4 weeks to make changes. All for a total of 13 to 17 weeks, not 3 years!


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#6 KraizerReziark

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

Radiants should be left as is (not biased). Perhaps an increase in heals to compensate for the large amount of HP we have these days.


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#7 DarkJackal

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

Recently made a tempest, just lvl 62 atm. But a couple things I can think of atm

 

Give weapon of god buff long range attack as well instead of just short. But I may just be saying this because I level with an avenger and it's useless to me and her. So I don't really use it. But I don't see how it could hurt letting long range users get use from it as well.

 

I would remove Godly Mirror since I spend most of the time avoiding rather then taking hits. I think it would better served on a class thats for tanking *coughprotectorcough* and perhaps switch to magic attacks. ¬.¬

Maybe a moving speed buff would be nice to help avoid stuff, but not become tanky.

 

I wouldn't change sleep other then making it last shorter on players if thats possible.

 

I think if radiants have restoration and divine cleansing, tempests don't really need Soul Depuration as well, do they?

 

 

Other than that i'm pretty happy with Tempest, it's a fun class.


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#8 Viole

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:39 PM

Uhh... Templars don't damage with light based attack, it's elec. Unless you want to heal people to death, don't listen to that.

 

Sleep could last shorter on players, but making it shorter pve wise would destroy a lot of things for all three jobs.

Holy bolt doesn't stack with lightning restraint since forever, either put a description for this or change the slow effect number so they can stack.

 

Tempests are at a decent place, yes, of course they're the squishiest out of the casters, but they're the ones that bring a large amount of utility to parties.

What should be looked at is the shortened length for rejuvenation as it was almost more than halved, and it's not that strong unless your magic attack, scad, and mind values are jacked up.  This could be said for all classes with a single HoT though, as the changes to those were down-right dumb at a 90s only perspective. HoTs in 69 bracket were quite strong, especially when coming from certain players.

 

WoG buffing both attacks is fine, and I think any physical party buffs should do this really, it'll encourage other classes that aren't played as often because who doesn't appreciate a damage boost? 

 

Radiants are game-changing, but it's very weird to try to balance them because of the dwindling population of them. And the fact that there are a considerable amount of ways to counter them, but with the wrong tweaks they can become unstoppable (seeing as an already major counter to caster dominance was taken away). They're still very effective when played right and even more effective when geared properly. Not much I can say there, as I want there to be more space for radiants but not at the cost of crippling anyone who plays melee based characters.

 

The inherent problem with trying to balance casters is you'll get people who build glass canon saying that they die too easily to x class, when they CHOSE TO MAKE a DPS LOADOUT. Especially since there is no active defense in this game aside from heals, and your occasional lucky teleport, dash, or whatever. I can already see the incoming posts about tempests especially coming in this discussion pointing this out. (And again this is the fault of the item mall system itself which makes balancing even trickier because some classes get more boosted than others in certain types of gear).


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#9 Sceptre

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:04 PM

really yall just -_- everything up why cant ya actually do -_- to help the game instead of goin and makin it into complete -_-? No one there has a brain i guess


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#10 Howako

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:04 PM

First off I need to say my heart stopped when I read the topic, change scares me since in the past the community ideas always go ignored and the dumbest of ideas are always picked. I do hope that this time you will keep an open mind while messing with job skills of all classes and do whats right ;)

 

Radiant:

How about instead of changing hush to stun, which to me is a bit of overkill, why not give Radiants Blunt Strike back? It was only a 3 sec stun when it hit and gotta say I loved rammin my staff in the faces of some Sins back in the day lol. Hush is one target and lasts half as long as Commander hushing skill, this way we can hush the AoE comin at us then turn and stun the melee that wont go away. I'm a support healer for pvp very rarely will u see me even throw a bolt, I go with the asset I have instead of waste time with 2k crit on a 30k hp player. Now maybe for the few Radiants that go in battle for the kills, a stun and hush would be a bit too much. I believe Radiants to be pretty balanced as is tho and not much if anything should be changed.

 

Tempest:

  1st I'd change Weapon of God and Haste back to single target buffing skills, ever making these skills into a party buff was really stupid. We can only have so many buffs at once and for 95% of every party I've been in are casters that do not need these skills, they have to kick buffs so they dont lose the really important ones relevant to their role in the group. I also agree WoG could use a boost for long range as well.  Its only thing we got that gets us invited to raids.. everyone hates that Glaring Lag so we go to raid and told only to buff n bolt nothing else.. Boring

  2nd low HP and low Def are their main weakness...I really miss (since s1) the way Godly Mirror was, well Godly.  So perhaps going back to take a look at making that skill useful might help with that. I only pve farm with my tempest so maybe not the best with pvp vs Godly in that aspect.

   3rd Fix Glaring Light back to how it was before you guys made it so shiny and blue.. I love it like it is, but ever since the change awhile back it causes quite a bit of lag  in large groups of players, making Tempests unwanted.

 

Templar: Remove Invigoration skill from game completely OR make HP Recovery work during combat. It breaks my heart to see these new Tempest/Radiants running around buffing ppl with lvl 10 Invigoration! In other MMO's out there the skill would make sense, for Requiem none.

 

Thats all I can think of atm, not played in over a month due to health issues so kinda vague on things.

 

 

 

 


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#11 tZerot

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:45 PM

I've seen many games both online and on console (ps1, ps2, etc.) die because of changes.  My feelings?  If it ain't broke..don't fix it.


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#12 AngelicPretty

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:25 PM

not sure Templar based classes rly need touched.

 

the idea of giving stun to them is silly. 

sure old days of lvl 65 being able chain blunt strike + sleep was lol but omg op.

 

personaly think templar based classes are fine as is even tho hush lasts for a life time huhu.


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#13 Nerthu

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:03 PM

just my opinion. its right that we need a balance rework. bud my expirience show its not good to change too much at same time.


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#14 DarkJackal

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:09 PM

Tempests are at a decent place, yes, of course they're the squishiest out of the casters, but they're the ones that bring a large amount of utility to parties.

What should be looked at is the shortened length for rejuvenation as it was almost more than halved, and it's not that strong unless your magic attack, scad, and mind values are jacked up.  This could be said for all classes with a single HoT though, as the changes to those were down-right dumb at a 90s only perspective. HoTs in 69 bracket were quite strong, especially when coming from certain players.

 

 

Tempest isn't a healer though. An rejuvenation is a lvl 1 skill, maxed at lvl 28. I don't think it should be useful at higher lvls. But it's still a little useful to me at 62. We do still have the target heal though. But I think healing should be left to support/healing classes.


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#15 RoxCore

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:14 PM

Tempest isn't a healer though. An rejuvenation is a lvl 1 skill, maxed at lvl 28. I don't think it should be useful at higher lvls. But it's still a little useful to me at 62. We do still have the target heal though. But I think healing should be left to support/healing classes.

Tempi got 5 buffs and 1 heal.. what else is a supporter for u???


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#16 Nerthu

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:27 PM

i forgot a point. its not abouth skill changes (i have no plan abouth thos classes). bud it would be great if you can give the tempest aoe a new animation. in raid we see nothing when the aoe run. the screen turn just in to a torchlight and many players become masive lags.


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#17 DarkJackal

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:41 AM

Tempi got 5 buffs and 1 heal.. what else is a supporter for u???

 

Tempest has 2 decent buffs, and Templar has 2 that only work out of combat i think? and one rather weak defense buff. I don't think thats all that useful for dungeon parties? I mean can Tempest take the place of a radiant or protector? Tempest has 3 aoes though, I think it's more of a damaging class.


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#18 Viole

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:33 AM

A support=\=only healing. There are plenty of ways a class can support a team, and do damage. For instance, the current role of WLs and the role of WLs before hand was to frontline, yes, you could do damage. But the best thing you could do was break a bottleneck for your team through initiating the fight. Does WL have two party buffs? Yes. Does it have a debuff? Yes. A strong form of CC? Check. Now let's look at tempest, highly demanded casting and attack speed buffs? Check. Useful one point or maxed buff that increases damage? Check. A strong form of CC? Check.

Just saying those abilities help a party out a lot, plus the fact that they're able to produce a very great amount of damage in a short amount of time. Nobody ever said a tempest should replace a prot or radiant, not sure WHERE you linked that idea from, but the point of my post was FAR from saying they should be in the same boat.

Since you're relatively new I'll explain the rejuvenation changes with a little more detail. Previously the length of skills such as Natural Healing and Rejuvenation was 10 and 20 seconds of duration in comparison to how it is now at 4 seconds and 10 seconds. Both of these skills were one point wonders as the duration did not increase for rejuvenation, and for natural healing the return on it was not as great as well, but they actually DID something when used. Did they break the game? Not entirely, only when paired with item mall at level 69 FOC in particular, but again the scaling of that is very difficult because item mall.

WoG and BoH are very useful for dungeon parties as there are compositions that use defense debuffs to help melee out more. Example being dominator, avenger, and WL defense debuffs. Essentially, you're min/maxing by adding more attack speed and damage to your melee damage dealers while ensuring the raid bosses defense is at 0 or in the negative values.

Edited by Viole, 22 April 2014 - 01:47 AM.

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#19 RoxCore

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:53 AM

Tempest has 2 decent buffs, and Templar has 2 that only work out of combat i think? and one rather weak defense buff. I don't think thats all that useful for dungeon parties? I mean can Tempest take the place of a radiant or protector? Tempest has 3 aoes though, I think it's more of a damaging class.

U dont play long enough... every class in this game can tank with right gear... noone needs rads coz of op pots...


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#20 SidZSpY

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 02:01 AM

Templar : leave them alone.

 

Tempest : FIX THIER LAGGY AOES other than that i dont think they need any changes.

 

Radiant : for me killing a radiant is more tougher than a Protector coz of mana shield so changing the % of MP to actual numbers would be good.

If a person makes a PVP radiant,i dont think any caster can beat them coz of thier slow-->hush-->sleep chain so maybe increase the CD of either 1 skill.


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#21 xSweetDreamsx

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:29 AM

This is really disapointing even to read this topic, sorry alteris/hellium but you are disapointing us time after time, you are asking to make changes to classes that really don't require it. If you are desperate to make changes, fix elem, fix avenger, fix sin, do you know how many radiants are in this game who pvp/pk then think about how many sins are in this game who pvp/pk, i see you guys don't take criticism well and rather just ignore anyways.

 

 

Radiant: There isn't enough radiants for us to even matter at this stage, if anything radiants should have a boost in defense and heals to meet the level of damage taken by other players. In pve radiant is fine, raids aren't challenging enough infact for an end game radiant. For pvp, again radiant does good, can be a game changer but not always, if against a commie the radiant can be facestriked the whole battlefield. In pk, radiant can do well 1 v 1 but as it stands in requiem we have many sins,  i find it hard to accept that a sin can stun you 2 x, kick all your buffs and slow you before you can even move. Leave hush alone, its good vs caster but a good caster will be prepared for this.

 

Tempest: Again tempest should have a boost in defense and heal or hp, tempest is very squishy, can have good damage but nothing amazing, no one cares if theres a tempest in raids only for there boh and wog so id leave their buffs as they are, in pvp tempest has good aoes but can't be on front line or will die very fast. In pk tempest doesn't have much chance unless its a mass battle, 1 v 1 melee with same gear will own a temp and vs a caster is pretty equal. About sleep, sleep does last a fair time but you have to be really close to the target to be able to use sleep and it has a fair cast time nothing compared to Terms of Service which has a massive range. Tempest does not need any nerf, only improvements to give them a chance vs melee.

 

 

Classes that do need nerf's

 

Sin

Commie

 

Classes that need improvements BADLY

 

Elem

Avenger

 


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#22 Viole

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:31 AM

Three questions:

 

  • Why should every "caster" be a frontliner? (This statement is rather silly seeing as most casters can't effectively frontline BECAUSE of their build, and before you go into the argument of Druid being a "casting" frontliner, just going to mention that druid to me should have never become a "caster".)
  • Since when should an AoE character be effective in a 1v1? Maybe giving tempests blunt strike would be fine, but anything other than that is just too much for an AoE character. (Edit: The only character aside from druids comparable in 1v1 would be elem and defiler, but defiler is at a much better place than elems by far)
  • Even with tempests being as squishy as they are(considering they're one of the few classes that doesn't have a CON/scad set) have you considered it being an issue of the builds or items everyone chooses to go because of the PvE vs PvP distinction?

 

To elaborate on that, I'd never see anyone with some basic understanding of PvP go full glass canon in any other game aside from this one and ASSUME they can play like a melee frontliner that maybe has four DPS parts, even then in this game as an example those melee that are pure DPS don't really do that well in a mass situation. (Again the problem here being item mall and how certain classes get boosted since a CON melee is pretty faceroll in 1v1 vs most classes especially with the trend of casters stacking INT and running around with 16-18k HP)

 

But yeah, I agree that these classes don't even need to be looked at long. There are OTHER priorities for balancing.


Edited by Viole, 22 April 2014 - 07:50 AM.

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#23 BumblefootV7

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

I have to agree with most of the replys here. These are the classes that dont need fixed. There nothing wrong with the way they are. Tempest is one of highest scorers in game but get them 1vs1 and its not a struggle compared to Druid, sin and commander.  If its not broken dont fix it? I think making any changes to these is only going to open the flood gates to players raging on forums again. You said your listening to us but i dont recall tempest and radiant  being mentioned in forums of needing changes in the last year or more. If im wrong feel free to link me a post but im pretty sure its not been on the topic of discussion.  I only assume you picked the classes completely at random and not by what needs changed ASAP.


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#24 Sandyman

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:20 AM

0A7Gi84.jpg

 

 

 

VPkgn2o.jpg

 

Invigoraton 

 

Like other said before: this Skill is atm. pretty useless!

Change that Skill into a Shape Shifter Debuff VS Enemies to make the Caster able to Buy some Time.

Make it so that the Templar can Debuff a (Single) Enemy into a Golem (like from the PD triggering Minerals)

JvY75sC.jpg

make it last like 3 Sec. but expendable with DNA into like +1+2+3 (max 6 sec.)

 

L6WgUDC.gif

 

Lesser Heal 

 

this Skill was in the Past pretty OP

but now has a bit to long CD-  i think the Nerf was a bit to hard.

 

old:

 


Skill Downtime:
12.0 sec

 

new:

Skill Downtime:

8.0 sec

 

I see this Class as THE main Healer but compared to Battle Magican at FoC 49 the Class is weaker in regards of Healing Potential.

 

-> next is to define the Class as Healer more and not as Damage Dealer AND Healer is to split Healing from Magic Attack Power.

 

This is a Huge thing! but i think you HAVE the choice GO DPS -> Tempest OR go Healing ->Radiant 

for that we need to change the Heal Formula:

 

old: 

  • Every 1 MND adds 0.3 HP Restoration to direct heal spells.
  • new:
  • Every 1 MND adds 0.6 HP Restoration to direct heal spells.

but strip it from Magic Attack Power so even free Player can be a better Healer if they focus on Mind instead of Weapon Reinforcement / Enchantment.

 

might have to adjust here to find the best balance...

 

 

yUJkZUG.jpg

 

 

B9UgXRJ.jpg

 

Moderate Party Heal

 

so i thought its a bit lame to have 2 Party Heals who are pretty much the same...whats the Point?

why not make one for sure Stronger and not only a bit! 

ofc. it have to be a bit Tricky to use for that:

 

Set as requirement to be able to use this Skill: a Pose like the Emote: "Pray"

jgYjv3S.jpg

Turan use Holy-,Devine Magic but is that SO EASY?!

I say NO! lets have em to strike a Pose like the Emote Pray so they can`t move at the same Time.

This would work as a clear Statement for the Party too!

If you want Proper Party Heals: STAY IN RANGE  i hate that nonsense that a Party Member

runs so far away at the BF only to scream later: "WHO WAS THE HEAL?!111"

 

its not so natural in a Horror MMO to get Divine Healing to work so easy i think^^

 

- short saying: reduce the Range but triple the Heal effect

 

 

2cx85pL.jpg

 

Divine Cleansing 

 

old:

 

Prerequisites Advanced Job: Radiant, Level 80,

 

new:

Prerequisites Advanced Job: Radiant, Level 60,

 

this Skill is very Powerful but should be more of a Basic for Healer -> like to see that at FoC 69 

it comes much to late for my taste. Make it not that Powerful (that it can`t clean all debufs) at lower lvls 

 

So...that would mean we need a new lvl 80 Skill:

 

 

no this is NOT Vampiric Touch 

 

p6g0Cnu.jpg

 

lets call it Megrim Touch for now ^^

 

its a Mana Burn that Extracts Mana from the Enemy and gives it to the Radiant.

 

lets say 3 Sec Cast Time and 20 Sec CD.

 

i know this seams pretty radical Skill for the Turan Race but hey...its MP not HP!

 

 

-

iZ4paSW.jpg

 

 

dqaEXkn.jpg

 

Instant Moving

 

Old:

- Quickly teleport away from your current position in a random direction.

 

New:

 

-  Set a Totem that works like the initial Point to return to.

so you have to set a Totem before using this Skill and the Range to return to needs DNA Points and the Duration Time needs DNA to but you can actual choose the Point where you want to return to make it more tactical worth - much more.


Edited by Sandyman, 22 April 2014 - 02:03 PM.

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#25 MacMad

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:52 AM

Did u ever think about fixing skill descriptions and typos before touching the actual skill?

We had a "thousand-page-threadbook" about those already...


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