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Upcoming Skill Changes(Pt. 2); Templar, Tempest, and Radiant


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#51 MacMad

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 03:50 AM

 EVERY freaking +30 (or near) whatever class/role it is can solo anything in the game.

 

This.

 

Remove Beautiful Nightmare Pots and Rage Xth from game, then ppl would actually think before forming partys, using skills etc.

The fact that a caster can tank any raid boss is just silly, and with those stuff u dont even need a healer at ur side which makes it totally retarded.

 

I know this pots r nice and usefull, but lets be honest, they totally destroy the different class roles + the factor *death* can be easily avoided

 

Remember when we grouped up for nightmare monsters cuz they scared the hell out of us, *death* was with us all the time, now its just like: "hp? i dont care about my hp, i got pots"....

 

The only "Horror" we get in this game atm, is the horrible fail management, sounds hard, but sadly true.


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#52 zombi3

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:15 AM

agree'd the real imbalance issue's in the game is the Reinforcement system, and not the skills. but they will never change it, so it makes no difference anyways, the problem is that for most armor pieces the difference between the defense gained on each piece is a gain of 200% or so, depending on what item, weapons are set at only 50% which is decent. the stat's gain per reinforcement is through the roof as well, but it's not as big of an impact except for CON, which is really an overpowered stat, compared to any other which is why it's the only kind of armor made, for level 79/85 armors. but no changes will be made. anyways back on topic, this class is the most balanced, and should mostly be left as is. 

-Godly Mirror reflected damage % increase for tempest.

-MP Recovery skill with long cooldown for radiant, as xSweetDreamsx mentioned.

-Remove Casting time of Restoration for Radiant.

-improve healing abilities of moderate party heal, with DNA lesser party heal is just as strong(or close)

 

 


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#53 Panacarea

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:40 PM

Contrary to what some forumers have posted, I think these classes do need adjustments. So I'll try to make my contribution

 

Templars

The following Templar skills I think are rather not useful as their effects can be achieved otherwise and or the skills could be merged into one. Those skills are: Ion Shield, Divine Protection, Magic Shield Mastery, Resistance (Curse), Invigoration and to some extent Concentration.

 

Ion Shield and Divine Protection

Ion Shield gives 100 (or 200 with DNA) physical defense at level 10 while Divine Protection gives 224 Physical Defense. That's 20 skill points (and 10 more DNA points) for 324 (or 424) physical defense. Remove the DNA for Ion Shield and merge these skills. The only reason to have them separate is to feed soccer kick.

 

Magic Shield Mastery

Radiants would be using staves for added mind while Tempests are more likely using wands and magic shields for the intellect bonus. So Magic Shield Mastery should be moved to the Tempest tree and as someone has mentioned before, have it provide additional block rate.

 

Resistance (Curse)

Rather pointless to have since players can reach 100% curse resistance using other means. Even if it were meant for FoC 49 the Templar would only gain +4% to curse resistance. Have this passive removed. Alternatively it could be changed to give out +10% to all resistance and changed to castable buff with the effect being additive.

 

Invigoration

Most players know that health doesn't regenerate in combat. I propose Invigoration is moved to the Radiant tree and becomes a party heal over time skill.

 

Concentration

This skill provides a fixed amount of mana which is added to the already present maximum mana and only to the casting player. To make it more attractive I propose the mechanics of this skill are changed. Instead of providing just a fixed amount of mana it should also have a percentage added on to it.

 

Example: Concentration level 10 = (+1000 + (player level*0.1) *(max mana *(skill level *0.1))

 

This will make it scale with level and maximum mana. I also think this buff should be castable on other players. It would really help out classes that suffer from mana issues.

 

Rejuvenation

I'm do not see why Rejuvenation cannot be used on other players. It's not as if the effect it gives is game breaking. It should be changed to be a targetable HoT.

 

Sleep

I think the duration for Sleep should be reduced by 3 seconds. However It should have an added effect where it reduces magic resistance by a certain amount say 10%

 

 

Radiants

I view the Radiant class as the healing class. They don't require additional attack skills or effects. Their focus points should be first healing and secondly buffing. So I'll propose changes to improve their healing aspect.

 

Divine Cleansing and Restoration

I don't see the reason for these skills to be separated into two. They should be merged and made into a sort of more visible summon. Like a little cross hovering above the ground. The skill can be adjusted to have it not overpowered. It should also be silence-able and stun-able but with every tick it should cleanse debuffs off itself and off allies.

 

Hush

I don't think Hush should do 5% of enemy hp as damage. This class is focused on healing and support. Lets improve that.

 

Holy Stance of Faith

The new level 80 skill. While active, the Radiant will be unable to move and all attack and debuff skills will be unavailable. But, the healing power will be improved by up to 30% at level 10 or 3% per level. Also it will also add a percentage of max mana to all outgoing heals including the mana healing spells.

 

Additional skills

The idea for mana regeneration has already been mentioned I thought of 2 skills for mana regeneration.

 

Mana Cycle

A skill that bonces from target to target recovering mana. It bounces to targets within range favoring those with the lowest mana. Improving the skill increases the number of bounced it does and the amount of bounces a player can receive from it.

 

Radiant Regeneration

A passive skill which activates only when the Radiant is in Holy Stance of Faith. Every two seconds the Radiant is in Holy Stance of Faith a pulse will be sent out recovering mana for x number of party members withing 20 meters.

 

Tempets

I view tempests as offensive casters. I see them as relying on primarily their long casting AoEs to have impact on the battle field. The changes I will propose will make the faster casters allowing them to escape from the battle field faster.

 

Weapon of God

The effect it proves should affect both magic and physical power. I know this idea has been mentioned before, so I am supporting it. Also, I do not think this will hinder the Elementalist role within a group, they can still give their magic power buff to other players.

 

Seal of Acceleration and Blessing of Haste

These effects should be combined. Of course they should be rebalanced so that casters can't instant cast everything with this buff.

   

Instant Moving

The DNA should be removed and the skill should be instant. It would just fit with the skill name. In addition, the player should decide where they want to end up. I don't think this is overpowered because it would allow Tempest more mobility considering Templars are a slow class in general. However, the cooldown at max level should be 15 seconds.

 

Godly Mirror

Basically what other players have said, “Improve the damage reflected.” I also think improving the counter attack chance provided by the DNA by around 5% will be a good idea. It will boost it form 37.5% to around 42% chance to reflect damage.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Panacarea, 24 April 2014 - 05:52 PM.

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#54 EdenEcho

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:32 PM

how I see radiant (at level 90):

  • the main support class of the game: meant for teamplay, not solo
  • in pvp, radiant has good survivability: to be able to support others, you need to stay alive as well, good passive defense and the ability to hush or sleep are essential
  • in pve... what can i say, this game has 2 kinds of pve: farm like a bot (why would you do that with a rad), or raid like a bot (which means my raids are done by pressing 5768 5768 repetitively until i die of boredom :heh:).
  • the game has a low population, not too many radiants, and even less radiants as main characters, which makes it hard to balance the class and adjust to other classes

my opinion of radiant skills:

  • heals: i often hear people complaining for heals being too high. i say a well geared radiant should have high heals, and there is no need to touch these skills. in fact, we have seen a boost in the average hp of our players recently, which means it takes more heals to restore their full hp. i dont see it necessary to boost the heals though, the only change i would like to see is more targets, possibly on lesser party heal. this would help keeping more people alive on raids, and would not affect pvp, since you wont have more players in range anyway, and there is no way to increase the range with dna on this skill.
  • buffs: as it has been said before, invigoration is useless. make this skill recover hp in attack mode too. concentration should give mnd instead of mp (if i remember right, it used to be mp recovery, however we already have blessed revelation for that).
  • other supportive skills: increase success rate on restoration. wasting 10 points on this skill should give 100% success rate. make divine cleansing remove hush too.*
  • offensive non-damage skills: many casters hate the sleep+hush combo. i say it has a chance to fail, hush is only 1 target, and considering that there are other classes being able to spam similar skills i think these should not be touched either. radiant is not a dps, it mostly uses hush/sleep to keep the enemy dps away. nerf these, and we are  free kills.
  • damage skills: they are as they should be
  • i would like to see level 90 skills in this game. how about a short duration of reflect? (by short, i mean a few seconds, which helps out in tough situations. should not be spamable :ani_meow:)

other thoughts regarding radiants, but not a matter of skill balance:

  • on battlefields, there is a counter for kills, deaths and for contribution. the cap for contribution is very low, a well geared radiant with many players in team can reach max in a few minutes. i want to see heals done, and also damage done, and damage taken. there is currently literally no reward for healing. give us a heal glow too :ani_wow:

 

 

*either this, or find a skill from another skill tree to remove hush, for example, make mystic's healing totem remove hush. im lazy to quote but it has been said before that stuns and hushes are op. dont remove them, just make more counter skills. elem should be able to remove hush from itself as well.


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#55 LPgirl

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 11:48 PM

Guys ,fockus on the other classes,the radis is ok .The only thing that u can change is the numbers of max target who we can heal.Make it 15 or 20 , some raids are bigger like ET and we need too heal party with 20-30 ppl.

 

PS:now the radis is good balanced-i mean u can make pvp radi or suport radi,dont -_- up this balance.I want to play suport radi not pvp so i dont need new pvp skills instead  my  buffs  XD


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#56 Sandyman

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 07:34 AM

i like to talk about the Idea from the Devs. Adding traits to the existing Skills f.e: Hush + DMG 

 

(ONLY there WHO IT MAKES SENSE! Adding DMG to Healer Skill Tree is not so clever i think)

but lets think about it the "right way":

 

it might be a chance to keep the Skills interesting and worth putting more than only 1 Skill Point into it.

 

example:

 

Templar

 

Templar_Elec_Bolt.gif

 

Elec Bolt = Lightning Property Damage 11 15 20 26 32 37 44 53 64 75
 

 

10 Skill Points for a bit more DMG?

 

boring! and later on not worth.

 

personal i like the Idea of Specialize into a few Skills (instead of to many who do pretty much the same)

-> that could generate a fresh Breeze from Customizing into the pretty old Skill Tree.

 

for  Elec Bolt for example this could mean:

 

 

(1)

Prerequisite Level 20 

Lightning Property Damage 47 (only DMG)

 

(2)

Prerequisite Level 40

Electric Shock Damage 14/2 sec (DOT)

 

(3) 

Prerequisite Level 50 

 

Movement Speed -0.3 m/sec Slow Duration 10 sec ( adds slow)

 

-

this is only an Example!

this could result into replacement of other Skills not obligatory but questionable!

 

but would give the Player a more rewarding Skill System and customizing Aspect. 

 

Next is "Token System"

 

Example:

 

Templar_Charged_Bolt.gif

 

Charged Bolt:

 

You use it and the Enemy get one Dot and thats it.

 

why not stackable?

 

First Hit = 1 DoT

Second Hit = 2 DoT 

and so on...max 3-4 Stacks.

 

this would ensure even 3 Free Player  could bring down 1 Cash Shop Who.e

 

if its 3 vs. 1 it should be logic who WINS!

NO MORE RAMBO!

 

Next is "Combo System":

 

example:

 

if you Buff first a Player with:

 

Templar_Invigoration.gif

 

Invigoration 

 

and then you use 

 

Templar_Lesser_Heal.gif

 

Lesser Heal

 

if used during the next 10 Sec. on the same Player -> the Heal gets a 25 % Boost of Healing!

 

this would bring a Strategic Aspect into the use of Skills.

 

And brings you away as Healer pressing 1,2,3 and 1,2,3 and 1,2,3 ...spaming same stuff over and over.

 

well this is very delicate but i think its worth the try.

:ani_swt3:

 

 

 

 


Edited by Sandyman, 25 April 2014 - 09:49 AM.

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#57 warjat69

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:58 PM

Like for me both class are just ok. But i read many stupid ideas like stun for radiant (wtf) or aoe bolt dmg.

 


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#58 Mythdra

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:31 PM

I must agree with the do not touch them part of this post. However let me point out some stuff

Mana Shield isn't as OP as people think it is adds a good amount of MP yes but it gets used up so fast

I play a 69 Radi and with my mana buffs I have about 8000 mana now but after 3 hits if I don't remove mana shield I'm done for. So its a double edge sword it can save you but it can also get you killed. Also as said Radi need no change as there are not enough for it to latter because everyone and they grandma plays mystic for a healer now since they can heal tank and DPS all in one class. that is from a 69 stand point tho so I know end game might be differentAl

 

so Cleffy please shut up about the stun crap. no one else agrees with you as it is dumb. Find me an MMO that doesn't have a stun at all. No one will agree about removing stuns as I am sure not only A do they feel that's a dumb thing to ask for B I am sure people are concerned with alot more BS in the game right now then stuns


Edited by Mythdra, 25 April 2014 - 06:02 PM.

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#59 EdenEcho

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 03:29 PM

I love how Helium vanished after such enthusiasm during the prot/commy discussion. :no1:  Must be busy.


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#60 Bracky

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:52 AM

how I see radiant (at level 90):

  • the main support class of the game: meant for teamplay, not solo
  • in pvp, radiant has good survivability: to be able to support others, you need to stay alive as well, good passive defense and the ability to hush or sleep are essential
  • in pve... what can i say, this game has 2 kinds of pve: farm like a bot (why would you do that with a rad), or raid like a bot (which means my raids are done by pressing 5768 5768 repetitively until i die of boredom :heh:).
  • the game has a low population, not too many radiants, and even less radiants as main characters, which makes it hard to balance the class and adjust to other classes

my opinion of radiant skills:

  • heals: i often hear people complaining for heals being too high. i say a well geared radiant should have high heals, and there is no need to touch these skills. in fact, we have seen a boost in the average hp of our players recently, which means it takes more heals to restore their full hp. i dont see it necessary to boost the heals though, the only change i would like to see is more targets, possibly on lesser party heal. this would help keeping more people alive on raids, and would not affect pvp, since you wont have more players in range anyway, and there is no way to increase the range with dna on this skill.
  • buffs: as it has been said before, invigoration is useless. make this skill recover hp in attack mode too. concentration should give mnd instead of mp (if i remember right, it used to be mp recovery, however we already have blessed revelation for that).
  • other supportive skills: increase success rate on restoration. wasting 10 points on this skill should give 100% success rate. make divine cleansing remove hush too.*
  • offensive non-damage skills: many casters hate the sleep+hush combo. i say it has a chance to fail, hush is only 1 target, and considering that there are other classes being able to spam similar skills i think these should not be touched either. radiant is not a dps, it mostly uses hush/sleep to keep the enemy dps away. nerf these, and we are  free kills.
  • damage skills: they are as they should be
  • i would like to see level 90 skills in this game. how about a short duration of reflect? (by short, i mean a few seconds, which helps out in tough situations. should not be spamable :ani_meow:)

other thoughts regarding radiants, but not a matter of skill balance:

  • on battlefields, there is a counter for kills, deaths and for contribution. the cap for contribution is very low, a well geared radiant with many players in team can reach max in a few minutes. i want to see heals done, and also damage done, and damage taken. there is currently literally no reward for healing. give us a heal glow too :ani_wow:

 

 

*either this, or find a skill from another skill tree to remove hush, for example, make mystic's healing totem remove hush. im lazy to quote but it has been said before that stuns and hushes are op. dont remove them, just make more counter skills. elem should be able to remove hush from itself as well.

 

That^ or just don't touch anything!!!!! I don't know why you would even change these classes before ones that actually need improvement like elems!..........


Edited by Bracky, 27 April 2014 - 05:54 AM.

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#61 LadyArthur

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:29 AM

Damn
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#62 Lithi

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:17 AM

Make dominator pets healable by radiants !


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#63 LadyArthur

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:19 PM

Radiant and templar combine skills
Protector and commander combine skills
And so on lol.
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#64 Nerthu

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:46 AM

Make dominator pets healable by radiants !

 

no way. j ust remember when heal was going on pets and totems.


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#65 Unbound

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:37 AM

Destructible totems :}


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#66 Vulcano

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:11 PM

stuff

:ani_swt3:

 

srry for the off topic: but i like ur signature :))


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#67 Cleffy

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:30 PM

I must agree with the do not touch them part of this post. However let me point out some stuff

Mana Shield isn't as OP as people think it is adds a good amount of MP yes but it gets used up so fast

I play a 69 Radi and with my mana buffs I have about 8000 mana now but after 3 hits if I don't remove mana shield I'm done for. So its a double edge sword it can save you but it can also get you killed. Also as said Radi need no change as there are not enough for it to latter because everyone and they grandma plays mystic for a healer now since they can heal tank and DPS all in one class. that is from a 69 stand point tho so I know end game might be differentAl

 

so Cleffy please shut up about the stun crap. no one else agrees with you as it is dumb. Find me an MMO that doesn't have a stun at all. No one will agree about removing stuns as I am sure not only A do they feel that's a dumb thing to ask for B I am sure people are concerned with alot more BS in the game right now then stuns

 

Mythdra, why is having a 100% success rate instant ability to lock a player down for a few seconds castable by anyone and unbreakable except for three class a good idea for a PVP based mmo? Do you really not see why this is a problem. I do not propose getting rid of crowd control, what I am proposing is making them balanced to prevent what PVP degrades into. A bunch of casters pew pewing each other from 20m away. Sure if a melee rushes in and dies in the process their team will usually win, but its a very stale combat system.

You may notice I did not say get rid of Sleep. Sleep is a good well balanced crowd control skill. What I said was to make sleep breakable to non-Electric based damage. Where as right now its only breakable by physical attacks. It would be even better if there was friendly fire in the game as it would allow another means of escape. There are multiple methods for crowd control, and when we break down what a stun does we find them. They can lock movements, they can prevent attacks, and they can prevent skills. I think stuns should be reduced into doing one of these three things instead of all three at the same time. Then have some means of breaking them so its only a matter of time and understanding of what is happening.

Also this class does not have any stuns unless you consider sleep a stun.


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#68 EdenEcho

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

Hi Helium! I don't want you to feel ignored like the people of our community, so let me leave you a message here~

 

After the (week 1) Defender, Commander, and Protector thread: Templar (and 2nd Jobs); Warrior (and 2nd Jobs); etc.
- At that pace it will take 8 weeks to complete the initial feedback. Then 2 to 4 weeks to make changes. Then proposals post and feedback (which will not  be divided into per Job threads), so 1 week there. Then (to be safe) another 2 to 4 weeks to make changes. All for a total of 13 to 17 weeks, not 3 years!


Defender thread is open since 09 April. This means today is the day we start the 4th class discussion! Help me find these threads please, because I only see two of them. Or are they hiding somewhere in the ROSE section?

 

Is this included as well? http://forums.warppo...-1-discussions/

 

Or maybe you meant to pick random weeks of the year?

 

We might finish in 3 years indeed.


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#69 cosi4zara

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

Destructible totems :}

Totems that follows ppl.


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#70 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:47 PM

Before I post on topic, not having had time to visit and post on this thread yet (having been busy on release of version 164...) I am going to read up and gather my thoughts. Now, with 164 gone live today, I have time to turn attention back to skill balance threads. Woot! So, I will post again soon today and am looking forward to reading all the suggestions and adding to the discussion.


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#71 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:41 PM

Some data on Templar, Tempest and Radiant:

Skill Type Frequency for Templar, Tempest and Radiant
Spoiler

Skill Option Frequency for Templar, Tempest and Radiant
Spoiler

Minimum Character Level by Skill Level for Templar, Tempest and Radiant
Spoiler

I am still reading and may post again soon with responses or my own proposals.
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#72 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:57 PM

Hi Helium! I don't want you to feel ignored like the people of our community, so let me leave you a message here~

 

Defender thread is open since 09 April. This means today is the day we start the 4th class discussion! Help me find these threads please, because I only see two of them. Or are they hiding somewhere in the ROSE section?

 

Is this included as well? http://forums.warpportal.com/index.php?/topic/105663-battlemagician-week-1-discussions/

 

Or maybe you meant to pick random weeks of the year?

 

We might finish in 3 years indeed.


Keep in mind these discussions are going on while we are busy developing other content. The pace has only been disrupted once.
Spoiler


Well, make that twice. The Warrior, Berserker and Warlord should have gone up this week but indeed we are behind schedule.
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#73 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:05 PM

That^ or just don't touch anything!!!!! I don't know why you would even change these classes before ones that actually need improvement like elems!..........

 

Just because we are asking for feedback does not necessarily mean we will change anything. In the end the most changes will go to the classes which need the most changes. If you think a class is perfect the way it is, post exactly that (as you have posted) but try not to worry about what we are actually going to implement yet, we will announce it.


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#74 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:08 PM

Oh! By the way EdenEcho, great idea on having a battlefield glow based on healed amount. Going to look into that and if it is possible, it will be.


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#75 EdenEcho

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:25 PM

Oh! By the way EdenEcho, great idea on having a battlefield glow based on healed amount. Going to look into that and if it is possible, it will be.

 

That would be very much appreciated, thank you. :ani_meow:


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