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Upcoming Skill Changes(Pt. 2); Templar, Tempest, and Radiant


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#76 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:28 PM

For the on-topic feedback (although not all sane, ha) thank you to: Panacarea, EdenEcho, Cleffy, Mythdra, warjat69, LPgirl, Sandyman, zombi3, Howako, DarkJackal, Viole, Crftwise, Justtank, AngelicPretty, KraizerReziark, Spyclop, Dyshana, SidZSpY, xSweetDreamsx, and BumblefootV7.
I am grateful for your posts. Cannot say the feedback will all be implemented and that is to say the least. But still it is valuable to us.
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#77 Viole

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 03:13 PM

 

Well, make that twice. The Warrior, Berserker and Warlord should have gone up this week but indeed we are behind schedule.

 

 

Can we get a little snippet on what you think Warriors, Berserkers, and Warlords should fulfill role wise?

In my experience it helps hearing what the devs WANT to do with the class, combined with the observations made by people that main those particular classes help discussion go a lot smoother.

 

Especially considering the most trouble comes from the intention of the previous devs (or rather the completely unclear intentions) when changing things.

 

Spoiler


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#78 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 04:51 PM

Can we get a little snippet on what you think Warriors, Berserkers, and Warlords should fulfill role wise?

In my experience it helps hearing what the devs WANT to do with the class, combined with the observations made by people that main those particular classes help discussion go a lot smoother.

 

Especially considering the most trouble comes from the intention of the previous devs (or rather the completely unclear intentions) when changing things.

 

Spoiler

 



Well, I got as far as we have so far in topics but not to Warriors yet. I will add as we go to the remaining race/job classes. The spoiler below contains a table with the class name, current (or old) description and my comments/proposed descriptions (where still blank, I will fill in as we go).

Spoiler

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#79 NemesisDemon

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:56 PM

Ha.  So the class that needs the most fixing(which has waited forever to be fixed) is the very last class you guys are going to fix.  Figures.
Think even I now have lost all expectations with this game.


Edited by NemesisDemon, 30 April 2014 - 05:57 PM.

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#80 Helium

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:20 PM

Ha.  So the class that needs the most fixing(which has waited forever to be fixed) is the very last class you guys are going to fix.  Figures.
Think even I now have lost all expectations with this game.

 

I keep hearing this confusion with ordering of the balance updates to come. Please let me be clear, any changes that are implemented will not be implemented in an order. It will be all at once, in several patch files but hopefully a single update. We are going on with this feedback process in numerical order according to the index of the class, it's as simple as that. (After all, it is a reasonable and courteous thing to do, and precedes the update.) The order of implementation is not related to the order we open these feedback threads.

 

On another subject to all:

I updated the table I posted previously about the class descriptions (show spoiler below).

 


Spoiler

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#81 Sandyman

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:09 AM

Radiant:

maximize healing powers via INT.

 

-

 

should that not be MIND?

 

or you planing to change that?

:hmm:

 

 

 


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#82 Jabrody

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:40 AM

yea, my Radiant uses Salvation armor, which plusses MND, are you suggesting MND will no longer improve healing power?

OR

Are you simply suggesting that Rads who use Staves will have the added benefit of using mnd AND int to improve healing power?


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#83 RadiantHelper

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:23 AM

No no he's implying he never played a radiant and has no idea that mnd increases heals and not int
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#84 Sandyman

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:53 AM

well INT gives:

 

Every 1 INT adds roughly 0.3 Magic Damage 

+

Every 5 INT adds 1 Skill Critical Additional Damage.

 

and now lets see how most direct Heals work:

 

Templar_Moderate_Heal.gif

 

  • Effected by Mind & magic attack power
    • Skill + (MND *0.3) + Property or Magic Attack

 

Total magic(property) damage = TMagD = [INT x 0.3] + MagAtk + SkD

 

-

 

thats for direct heals!

 

HoT`s:

 

 => HoT Skill + (MND *0.3 + Property or Magic Attack) / 5 (New Formula)

 

 

short saying:

INT (& Property/Magic Attack) plays a much bigger Role into Heals than it should!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#85 Helium

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:58 AM

Radiant:

maximize healing powers via INT.

 

-

 

should that not be MIND?

 

or you planing to change that?

:hmm:

 

 

yea, my Radiant uses Salvation armor, which plusses MND, are you suggesting MND will no longer improve healing power?

OR

Are you simply suggesting that Rads who use Staves will have the added benefit of using mnd AND int to improve healing power?

 

 

No no he's implying he never played a radiant and has no idea that mnd increases heals and not int

 


Perhaps you're reading in too many assumptions and perhaps I'm writing in too many specifics.
Let me revise the description to exclude the mention of INT specifically, as even though INT is the basis for magic damage/healing, MND is not to be overlooked.
Let me also add, I do indeed know how to play a Radiant, in fact I have a level 75 Radiant and I have a Staff and a Hammer/Shield for switching roles.

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#86 MacMad

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:08 PM

o0QX3i7.jpg

 


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#87 Sandyman

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:17 PM

all the Suggestions - but the least we will seen implemented.

 

and you ask yourself why we are so curious?!

 

Let me tell you Helium we expect more than some index and statistics.

 

Thanks for your hard work! - adding Content and doing the Updates at Maintenance - we are aware of the work behind it.

 

But don`t forget how much Content this Player base lost already - don`t let me repeat myself over and over.

 

For many it looks like you striping more and more costly Features like SvS and PvE from the Game only to replace it

with Milking from the Cash Shop.

 

Its the direction this Game is heading we sensitive about thats all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#88 Helium

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:38 PM

o0QX3i7.jpg

 

HA! HA! HA!

Nice.


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#89 Helium

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:51 PM

all the Suggestions - but the least we will seen implemented.

 

and you ask yourself why we are so curious?!

 

Let me tell you Helium we expect more than some index and statistics.

 

Thanks for your hard work! - adding Content and doing the Updates at Maintenance - we are aware of the work behind it.

 

But don`t forget how much Content this Player base lost already - don`t let me repeat myself over and over.

 

For many it looks like you striping more and more costly Features like SvS and PvE from the Game only to replace it

with Milking from the Cash Shop.

 

Its the direction this Game is heading we sensitive about thats all.

 

I don't mean to be insensitive. Thank you for acknowledging our work. I will never forget a thing like Server Battles (and how much fun they are) or like Guild Tournaments (which never got fixed to anyone's satisfaction). Server Battle will return quite soon actually. And as for other content which has been removed, we are looking into bringing it back with improvements (for example: Abandoned Mine, Frida Mine, Prisoners Labor Camp, etc.). But, I do not want to stray too far off topic. This Skill Balance should improve the enjoyment of playing Requiem without any need for Item Mall access. Thank you for the comments Sandyman. I hope you know indexes and statistics in this context are only tools to help further this discussion and not the end implementation.


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#90 BumblefootV7

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:37 AM

Reading through this helium is replying a lot. Nice to see this +1
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#91 MacMad

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:47 AM

 This Skill Balance should improve the enjoyment of playing Requiem without any need for Item Mall access.

 

To reach that goal theres only 1 possability, atm u can reinforce gear up to +10 without any item mall during high reinforce events = 1/3 of the actual power u can get

 

Imo it should be the other way round -> +20 (or +15 atleast) for free player = 2/3 of the actual power , and +30 for ppl using item mall so thats an advantage of 1/3 over the nonpaying player

 

The difference between non/paying player is still way too big atm :p_swt:

 

 

--------

 

This would be an asskick for old players but it will make the game much more interesting for new ppl, cuz alot r scared away by the huge influence of Item Mall

And thats what the game needs, much more population....

 

Like i mentioned in another thread, just try and make a full 85 armor set / weapon etc, even with item mall it can be painfull


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#92 Helium

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:15 AM

Reading through this helium is replying a lot. Nice to see this +1

 

Thanks Bumblefoot. I will continue to be active on these threads throughout the skill re-balance process. Although, please understand if I seem to vanish from time to time for a day, or two, or even three, I will not fall off and will always return until we get this done. And that will carry on all the way through implementation; whether implementation is a huge overhaul of the whole Job Skill System as a leveling mechanism or a simply a package of minor tweaks to achieve closer balance between character classes.


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#93 Helium

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:36 AM

To reach that goal theres only 1 possability, atm u can reinforce gear up to +10 without any item mall during high reinforce events = 1/3 of the actual power u can get

 

Imo it should be the other way round -> +20 (or +15 atleast) for free player = 2/3 of the actual power , and +30 for ppl using item mall so thats an advantage of 1/3 over the nonpaying player

 

The difference between non/paying player is still way too big atm :p_swt:

 

 

--------

 

This would be an asskick for old players but it will make the game much more interesting for new ppl, cuz alot r scared away by the huge influence of Item Mall

And thats what the game needs, much more population....

 

Like i mentioned in another thread, just try and make a full 85 armor set / weapon etc, even with item mall it can be painfull

 

Although, I'd hate to get side-tracked off topic...

 

I have not gone searching for data to back me up on this yet but I am confident enough that such data would back me up to say (anecdotally speaking, since I have accomplished it myself): A player can spend very little to no real world money and get a full set of armor, weapon, shield and accessories at +20 or greater (as I have). Granted, I had to wait for reinforcement events to accomplish it and once I got past +20 did buy a couple 5 packs of insurance to get a few parts over +20 and failed some too at that point, but suffice to say a player can achieve greater than +10 on all their gear if they invest the time to do so.

 

All of this just to say, I still have to agree with you: There is a PAID:FREE user imbalance that has needed to be addressed since season 2. We have made advances towards this, there are in game ways to acquire reinforcement and enchantment related items like insurance, success rate increases, degrade protection, Xeon extraction, among others. Initially, all of those items were paid only. We intend to keep working towards that balance between the need for the business to be profitable and the game to be sustainable.

 

In the end, I believe the real world economy should play the least role in game as possible. Of course, we live in a competitive world and cannot continue to develop and publish games unless our users pay us to do it.


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#94 RadiantHelper

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:01 PM

Although, I'd hate to get side-tracked off topic...

 

I have not gone searching for data to back me up on this yet but I am confident enough that such data would back me up to say (anecdotally speaking, since I have accomplished it myself): A player can spend very little to no real world money and get a full set of armor, weapon, shield and accessories at +20 or greater (as I have). Granted, I had to wait for reinforcement events to accomplish it and once I got past +20 did buy a couple 5 packs of insurance to get a few parts over +20 and failed some too at that point, but suffice to say a player can achieve greater than +10 on all their gear if they invest the time to do so.

 

lvl 79 and higher gear can be made +9 using no mall.

I do not know where you got +20 from.

Level 72 can be made +12 no mall.

Level 67/68 can be made +15 no mall.

 

Currently with a +60% forge it takes approximately 35 dollars per item to get it to +30.

 

Forgot to mention that both Rare NM set and Carus NM set are also at +9 free no mall.

 

TIME is not the issue. MONEY is.


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#95 DarkJackal

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:15 PM

lvl 79 and higher gear can be made +9 using no mall.

I do not know where you got +20 from.

Level 72 can be made +12 no mall.

Level 67/68 can be made +15 no mall.

 

Currently with a +60% forge it takes approximately 35 dollars per item to get it to +30.

 

Forgot to mention that both Rare NM set and Carus NM set are also at +9 free no mall.

 

TIME is not the issue. MONEY is.

 

Thats quite disappointing/lame lol. Taking so much money to be able to achieve that I mean.


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#96 Crftwise

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:23 PM

Although, I'd hate to get side-tracked off topic...

 

I have not gone searching for data to back me up on this yet but I am confident enough that such data would back me up to say (anecdotally speaking, since I have accomplished it myself): A player can spend very little to no real world money and get a full set of armor, weapon, shield and accessories at +20 or greater (as I have). Granted, I had to wait for reinforcement events to accomplish it and once I got past +20 did buy a couple 5 packs of insurance to get a few parts over +20 and failed some too at that point, but suffice to say a player can achieve greater than +10 on all their gear if they invest the time to do so.

 

All of this just to say, I still have to agree with you: There is a PAID:FREE user imbalance that has needed to be addressed since season 2. We have made advances towards this, there are in game ways to acquire reinforcement and enchantment related items like insurance, success rate increases, degrade protection, Xeon extraction, among others. Initially, all of those items were paid only. We intend to keep working towards that balance between the need for the business to be profitable and the game to be sustainable.

 

In the end, I believe the real world economy should play the least role in game as possible. Of course, we live in a competitive world and cannot continue to develop and publish games unless our users pay us to do it.

 

  I would love to see the possibility of "buying" reinforcements with in game Lant. It never fails to amuse me that the NPC sellers sell such crapola items. Most other MMORPGS allow you to BUY very good items if not Epic with in game currency. At least it would make Lant worth more. If not Lant, maybe SLOT COINS.... Since you have to work to get them.


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#97 MacMad

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:54 PM

Although, I'd hate to get side-tracked off topic...

 

I have not gone searching for data to back me up on this yet but I am confident enough that such data would back me up to say (anecdotally speaking, since I have accomplished it myself): A player can spend very little to no real world money and get a full set of armor, weapon, shield and accessories at +20 or greater (as I have). Granted, I had to wait for reinforcement events to accomplish it and once I got past +20 did buy a couple 5 packs of insurance to get a few parts over +20 and failed some too at that point, but suffice to say a player can achieve greater than +10 on all their gear if they invest the time to do so.

 

dont get me wrong, im not talking about supernus/eximus standard armor and jewels, i mean reinforced stuff and carus armor/weapons

 

higher lvl stuff with 10% success / 90% fail rate at +10 , thats the deal
 

-edit: sry for the offtopic :shss:


Edited by MacMad, 02 May 2014 - 02:54 PM.

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#98 engendrodemaldad

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:15 AM

Oh! By the way EdenEcho, great idea on having a battlefield glow based on healed amount. Going to look into that and if it is possible, it will be.

 

please don't touch my glows :D


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#99 WhateverHeSaid

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:18 AM

well INT gives:
 
Every 1 INT adds roughly 0.3 Magic Damage [/size]
+
Every 5 INT adds 1 Skill Critical Additional Damage.
 
and now lets see how most direct Heals work:
 
Templar_Moderate_Heal.gif

  • Effected by Mind & magic attack power
    • Skill + (MND *0.3) + Property or Magic Attack
Total magic(property) damage = TMagD = [INT x 0.3] + MagAtk + SkD
 
-
 
thats for direct heals!

First of all, my english is very bad to write something.

I don't know if I'll disagree or explain, but INT doesn't work in direct heal spells, because INT don't give direct Magic Damage (like STR gives direct physical damage). The magic damage gave from INT didn't showed in magic damage character because just influences the calc for magic damage (like you said).

All heals are influenced by Magic Damage (direct magic damage, INT don't influence direct magic damage, just offensive magic spells), Light Damage and MND.
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#100 razorEdge

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:12 AM

  I would love to see the possibility of "buying" reinforcements with in game Lant. It never fails to amuse me that the NPC sellers sell such crapola items. Most other MMORPGS allow you to BUY very good items if not Epic with in game currency. At least it would make Lant worth more. If not Lant, maybe SLOT COINS.... Since you have to work to get them.

 

 

Maybe there should be a way to get all Item Mall stuff or different version of it with in-game money(make it expensive) so the free players can also get these stuff if they grind and play alot. or have some npc to sell similar stuff with in-game money. i would like to see pet extension or costume being sold with in-game money. which players regularly use.


Edited by razorEdge, 05 May 2014 - 10:21 AM.

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