233 replies to this topic

[fgabriel26]

few words

deviant garment

+12 immune shield of gargantua

Tao

dragon breath

Scaraba

[tigriss216]

I'm unfortunetly finding myself doing gramps atm to get a few job levels on my ranger and trying to max my bio so I can get the best rates when making slims for my ranger.  I honestly don't like doing it Mainly the people down there. see my thread for my main issue with the people. But yeah should just be the old way of leveling and not having an express lane.

[belld1711]

"Why is it this monster, why not THAT monster?..."

I also wondered why the GMs give in to those people. Why not make it a universal representation of all monsters in the game? Have one on each level be ranged, one fire, water, earth, wind, ghost, undead, demon, etc? After that, you won't need that many mobs of each, because no one would be crying "increase spawn plz!" or "smaller map plz!" And with the demon/undead property mobs, Priest classes would be able to (kind of) solo, though they'd need to teleport to survive.

 

But I'd still prefer to see Gramps taken out with his maps, the existing kill counts on the Eden boards increased with the rewards increased as well. Moving them to the map is optional. No need really, because either people are going to fly wing through maps or else have a priest slave warp them to the map.

[Xplay4eva]

Hate gramps? That is some tasty food for thought.

I think the idea of Gramps TI is good but it would be even better if it were possible to adjust regular maps to have the godly spawn rate.

 

The downside with that (I assume) is that having thousands of extra monsters running around would cause everything and everyone to crash and thus causing our very own, in game ragnarok.

 

I suppose that we cannot have our cake and eat it too..

Edited by Xplay4eva, 04 May 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[ZeoKenX]

In regards into ABs not being that useful..are you guys on crack? ABs for the most part save the need of using/carrying pots to allow you to carry other things that make you versatile ALL the time.Potheads from what I seen only use pots in wars,and if they somehow are still potting in pvm,they either have access to a top tier guild/money to blow or they bot.I've partied with some of the best ABs on Renewal and know that for a fact that class has MAJOR uses for Rune Knights if you ask me.

 

Besides that tho,Iam down with Gramps forcing players to other maps again.Again,bots run rampant because fewer players see them.More players seeing them = more bots found and dealt with.

Edited by ZeoKenX, 04 May 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Peerless]

In regards into ABs not being that useful..are you guys on crack? ABs for the most part save the need of using/carrying pots to allow you to carry other things that make you versatile ALL the time.Potheads from what I seen only use pots in wars,and if they somehow are still potting in pvm,they either have access to a top tier guild or they bot.I've partied with some of the best ABs on Renewal and know that for a fact that class has MAJOR uses for Rune Knights if you ask me.

 

Besides that tho,Iam down with Gramps forcing players to other maps again.Again,bots run rampant because fewer players see them.More players seeing them = more bots found and dealt with.

Huh?

[ZeoKenX]

Huh?

 

Yeah Iam old school =o

[Akabane]

The only thing I dislike about gramps is how it made so many people lazy. Changing maps would not help at all it would make things even worse, do we not all remember when they was on normal maps and all you seen was a party auto following a high level character running around killing every thing, players of the appropriate level did not stand a chance. Also when can "TI" go back to being turtle island

[CharAznable]

Having out side map Turn In or gramp turn in doens't change the fact that GM is up for choice of map. You can't have turn in all over the place then people will abuse stacking quest, ultimately making leveling much faster.

 

 

[CharAznable]

I also wondered why the GMs give in to those people. Why not make it a universal representation of all monsters in the game? Have one on each level be ranged, one fire, water, earth, wind, ghost, undead, demon, etc? After that, you won't need that many mobs of each, because no one would be crying "increase spawn plz!" or "smaller map plz!" And with the demon/undead property mobs, Priest classes would be able to (kind of) solo, though they'd need to teleport to survive.

 

But I'd still prefer to see Gramps taken out with his maps, the existing kill counts on the Eden boards increased with the rewards increased as well. Moving them to the map is optional. No need really, because either people are going to fly wing through maps or else have a priest slave warp them to the map.

 

Increasing spawn for all around will create heavy load onto our server. and making new monster counterpart of each monster will increase client data which already are messy. which isnt optimal.

[Facekiller]

monster spawn rates only seem bad because there arnt players on the maps actually killing stuff to keep the spawns up... we really need to ramp up the spotlights so we get better leveling zones with better rewards for Victoria Quest and Adventurers guilds... im still waiting for a Geffen spotlight (orc dungeon, geffen tower and geffenia) this would be great for low to mid levels into high ranges...

[Talvis]

Based on my own observations and what people have said here and other places, this is a summary of the main reasons people hate gramps.  Most people who primarily level up via Gramps are leveling too quick to properly learn their classes and since the TIs send you to a special map these players never really learn much about the game outside of the TI world.  Also, they probably don't get a chance to hunt around for new gear and things to sell for zeny.  I see a lot of people running around at higher levels with Eden gear.  Honestly, a lot of the problems with the current gramps ti system could be fixed by removing the special map and encouraging people to actually explore the monster's natural areas.  Also, bringing back the on map TIs would also give an alternative to faster leveling so people aren't forced to do Gramps for faster leveling.  These TIs really only need to be for 100+ though since pre 100 already has enough to do.

[ZeroTigress]

These TIs really only need to be for 100+ though since pre 100 already has enough to do.

This has always felt very odd to me. 1-99 is already well-covered by Eden quests and non-Eden quests. I understand the need for leveling past 100, but why does a low TI even exist when there's plenty of leveling options for 1-99?

[CharAznable]

Based on my own observations and what people have said here and other places, this is a summary of the main reasons people hate gramps.  Most people who primarily level up via Gramps are leveling too quick to properly learn their classes and since the TIs send you to a special map these players never really learn much about the game outside of the TI world.  Also, they probably don't get a chance to hunt around for new gear and things to sell for zeny.  I see a lot of people running around at higher levels with Eden gear.  Honestly, a lot of the problems with the current gramps ti system could be fixed by removing the special map and encouraging people to actually explore the monster's natural areas.  Also, bringing back the on map TIs would also give an alternative to faster leveling so people aren't forced to do Gramps for faster leveling.  These TIs really only need to be for 100+ though since pre 100 already has enough to do.

 

Wrong. Whether its real map or Turn In, there aren't stuff that is critical to learn how to be better at game. I've been saying this multiple times. You don't learn what to do versus ET situation in regular map. You don't learn how to effectively deal with malangdo culvert boss property monsters. You have to research MVP skill cooldown, many other tricks to overcome how to solve those issues. They come from their own research. Natural areas way easier than Turn In maps apart from bio3 and 4. Even bio 4 is way easier than bio3. Maybe eclage is somewhat medium difficulty. You actually gain way more zeny from Turn In than regular maps. So that is also hard to say that regular map would be more profitable. Unless you have proper gear to actually hunt for certain things properly. 

 

Eden Gear is really all you need to play generic pvm properly. Eden manateu is better than FAW sometimes if they don't have raydric card but just using it for damage(which isn't significant).  Bringing back Turn In to regular map will have same effect as current Turn In. Because in the end, you can stack them and pop 3xbm. It won't change the fact that Turn In offers fast leveling. Rather, will be way faster and way easier because most of maps are linear. Scaraba Hall, Eclage, Juperos, Magma Dungeon, so on. All have similar property monsters gathered there. You don't get AK/Naga combo or Firelock/Elder combo or some exotic combination. You don't get multiple KK makes people in grief, which can be dealt with easy if you know what you're doing. That you learn by researching, and try it your own. 

 

Regular Map Turn In does not offer any better solution. Its essentially the same thing as gramp Turn In. If it was SPOTLIGHT with MORE QUEST EXP, that will be enough to encourage people to go around the map, find clues and what not. OR, maybe increase exp reward to 101~140 eden board quest, because it makes you go around many places and dungeons to complete the count. 

Edited by CharAznable, 04 May 2014 - 03:43 PM.

[Viri]

Bringing back TI to regular maps just means people can drag 11 party members through the low and mid TI in like 10 minutes with a 150 god itemed genetic or stacked ranger. It's fantastic.

[beaupoem]

They come from their own research.

 

...

 

 

Regular Map Turn In does not offer any better solution. Its essentially the same thing as gramp Turn In. If it was SPOTLIGHT with MORE QUEST EXP, that will be enough to encourage people to go around the map, find clues and what not. OR, maybe increase exp reward to 101~140 eden board quest, because it makes you go around many places and dungeons to complete the count. 

 

too bad people see hard TIs and they go "i guess no TI for me this week, QQ"

 

and they should definitely increase the exp given by the Adventurer's Guild. currently the exp reward is such crap that spending a few more minutes grinding on the regular map would be more exp than going back to camp to turn in the quest

[Beata]

Bringing back TI to regular maps just means people can drag 11 party members through the low and mid TI in like 10 minutes with a 150 god itemed genetic or stacked ranger. It's fantastic.

 

It was golden! At least didn't have to waste time finding share parties lol, could just self leech kills off a 150 instant CC gene.

[LimitBreaker27]

Today trio-ing this Low Ti with Guildmates, we get KSed more than 5 times by the same parties/peoples, just because im a champion and getting hit while in mental strength doesn't mean im in trouble and need help, I have my party members to kill for me. Also they find the nerve to say Sorry after KSing... what kind of mentality is that? like really now. I would like to see what it would be like if gramps were gone, maybe people can understand the real meaning of the game and stop relying on the easy routes, don't get me wrong turn in is great and parties and so on. but people need to see more of the game outside of gramps. Sorry just felt the need to QQ lol.

[belld1711]

Increasing spawn for all around will create heavy load onto our server. and making new monster counterpart of each monster will increase client data which already are messy. which isnt optimal.

 

You misunderstood what I was saying. In the first part, I was stating a solution to people crying for different mobs and maps in TI. I was basically saying that with every type of monster (fire, wind, earth, water, ghost, undead, poison, etc which include some ranged monsters) in TI, there wouldn't be a need to change monsters, and with that, there would be no need to increase the amount of monsters in TI (which I've seen some people asking for once). Just keep the total number of monsters the same as it is now. This would effectively make it to where no one needs to worry about which monsters are going into TI, or asking for small/different maps, etc. I also never said anything about making a "new counterpart" of any monster(s).

 

I just figure that would be a good solution since it's highly doubtful that Gramps and/or the TI maps will be taken out. It'll keep people from spamming their hatred for certain maps and/or monsters in the maintenance threads, and will force people to learn how to deal with different types of monsters at the same time. And Odin forbid, they get tired of that and actually get OUT of TI and actually visit a map outside of a town besides South Pront field. *gasp*

 

However, I'd still like to see the old man perish...

Edited by belld1711, 04 May 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[CharAznable]

I was basically saying that with every type of monster (fire, wind, earth, water, ghost, undead, poison, etc which include some ranged monsters) in TI, there wouldn't be a need to change monsters, and with that, there would be no need to increase the amount of monsters in TI (which I've seen some people asking for once). Just keep the total number of monsters the same as it is now. This would effectively make it to where no one needs to worry about which monsters are going into TI, or asking for small/different maps, etc. I also never said anything about making a "new counterpart" of any monster(s).

 

Usually, its the exp they're concerned about for changing the monster. Most of the monster type can be dealt with effectively. Suggestion of Turn In usually thrives from their exp/hp ratio. Not the type of monster property. 

 

If we're getting rid of Gramp's turn in, consequences are, 1) there are not enough spawn to go around, which can be happening easily because iRO's server cannot support 2x spawn increased across the map. 2) Getting rid of him without solid solution will ultimately drive off people who thrives from playing Turn In. Because Turn In actually offers more challenges to me, I rather enjoy that challenge more than linear regular maps offers. There are many types of people, and its better to "increase" options rather than "eliminating" option. If its the real map that we're trying to populate, Spotlight is already doing it greatly. So expanding Spotlight to 70~100/101~125/126~150 will ultimately bring out people to actual map. 

Edited by CharAznable, 04 May 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[belld1711]

If people deal with different property monsters so easily, why do people whine when there's a ghost property or ranged monster in? It's because they want TI to be easy. "Easy" and "challenge" do not mean the same thing.

 

IMO, getting rid of the TI maps won't hinder anything. If a map is over-flowing with people, just go to another map. I mean, how many maps are there again? Just because a character is level 25 doesn't mean they have to hunt of the spore map East of Payon. I believe if you go one map further east and 1 south, you'll end up on another map with identical monsters. There might not be as many spores, but there's more snakes and stem worms. As it's been pointed out, there's more than one map for each level range in the game.

 

But also, who cares if there's not enough monsters to go around? People have stated that it's ultra easy to level up as it is, and no one needs to be max level in a week. Or a month. Hell, I'm almost a year in, and I still don't have a third class yet. Do you hear me complaining? Have I ever said "omg! I can no lvl upz!" I've recently gotten some BMx3's from boxes and fire sales (the one before the latest one) and they're sitting in storage right next to my gum. I'm not bothered with taking my time leveling. I just spend time testing out different skill sets. If something's difficult, adapt. Same should be said for people if Gramps takes a hike. Adapt.

[CharAznable]

If people deal with different property monsters so easily, why do people whine when there's a ghost property or ranged monster in? It's because they want TI to be easy. "Easy" and "challenge" do not mean the same thing.

 

IMO, getting rid of the TI maps won't hinder anything. If a map is over-flowing with people, just go to another map. I mean, how many maps are there again? Just because a character is level 25 doesn't mean they have to hunt of the spore map East of Payon. I believe if you go one map further east and 1 south, you'll end up on another map with identical monsters. There might not be as many spores, but there's more snakes and stem worms. As it's been pointed out, there's more than one map for each level range in the game.

 

But also, who cares if there's not enough monsters to go around? People have stated that it's ultra easy to level up as it is, and no one needs to be max level in a week. Or a month. Hell, I'm almost a year in, and I still don't have a third class yet. Do you hear me complaining? Have I ever said "omg! I can no lvl upz!" I've recently gotten some BMx3's from boxes and fire sales (the one before the latest one) and they're sitting in storage right next to my gum. I'm not bothered with taking my time leveling. I just spend time testing out different skill sets. If something's difficult, adapt. Same should be said for people if Gramps takes a hike. Adapt.

1) Turn In and Regular Maps are equally easy. I have said that multiple times. Even with easier monster in Turn In, Its still hard to say that regular map offers much more difficulty. For you example, Dealing with Elder/Firelock vs go find 85~99 friendly monster such as Magmaring. I'm pretty sure magmaring is way easier. People may whine but they still adapt, and just do it. Which is happening with current 70~99 Turn In.

 

2) Like I said, 1~99 is not the issue. Many people have said that 1~99 is already well covered with eden board and other stuff. Problem with Turn In comes from 101+. There aren't many places you can go to as 101+. And they're very limited with map structure/spawn rate, which ultimately need to get boosted(this is reason why we pump in spotlight to boost spawn). I see you're trying to give an example for "many maps are exist to choose from" but that doesn't apply after 101+. 

 

3) People cares about spawn rate and major issue with regular map is that there aren't enough monsters for people to hunt. If you carefully observe this thread, people also been saying that exp scales REALLY bad. And no one is denying it. That is reason why we have Turn In, to counter that rack of balance. And thats why Spotlight was important to push. Which worked successfully. Not everyone should cater to what you think is the best. Many people have different style of playing RO, in fact, a lot of people enjoy doing Turn In. And its always better to offer more option than not doing anything. If you hate Gramps, Thats fine. You can just skip Turn In and do what you think is the best. I never force anyone to do Turn In. Nor anyone should. Like you said, effective means nothing. Anyone can have their own playstyle. I for one play both regular maps and Turn In. Because i like to play like that. 

Edited by CharAznable, 04 May 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[Peerless]

If people deal with different property monsters so easily, why do people whine when there's a ghost property or ranged monster in? It's because they want TI to be easy. "Easy" and "challenge" do not mean the same thing.

 

IMO, getting rid of the TI maps won't hinder anything. If a map is over-flowing with people, just go to another map. I mean, how many maps are there again? Just because a character is level 25 doesn't mean they have to hunt of the spore map East of Payon. I believe if you go one map further east and 1 south, you'll end up on another map with identical monsters. There might not be as many spores, but there's more snakes and stem worms. As it's been pointed out, there's more than one map for each level range in the game.

 

But also, who cares if there's not enough monsters to go around? People have stated that it's ultra easy to level up as it is, and no one needs to be max level in a week. Or a month. Hell, I'm almost a year in, and I still don't have a third class yet. Do you hear me complaining? Have I ever said "omg! I can no lvl upz!" I've recently gotten some BMx3's from boxes and fire sales (the one before the latest one) and they're sitting in storage right next to my gum. I'm not bothered with taking my time leveling. I just spend time testing out different skill sets. If something's difficult, adapt. Same should be said for people if Gramps takes a hike. Adapt.

That's sad bro....

 

Just because you don't want to experience end game activities and what not,doesn't mean anyone else doesn't want to.You act like RO will be here forever,but it's a game that can just end tomorrow.No one wants to waste their time playing a game at first,just to find out they won't be able to play it the next day and that everything they did so far,would be for nothing.A lot of people play this game for accomplishments.I know some people play it casually and to talk to friends,but if I wanted to talk to friends all day,I wouldn't be doing that inside my house,in front of  computer,on a MMO.I would be outside,experiencing more,instead of being cramped up all day.You know you can do everything you're saying in a TI party.Not every party rushes through.I make many friends/acquaintances  in TI parties because I can actually type and press hotkeys at the same time.We also talk about our classes and what gears we use.Hmm,I wonder what people do from level 1-70(twice) when they aren't on a TI map?I wonder what people did when we had the old gramps system with level gaps?It is very easy to level and it is very easy to learn how to play your class efficiently.Some people ask questions on the forums and some people do research.If you play this game long enough,you'll become a pro at your class.You might not be bothered by taking your time leveling,but many players have jobs/careers/school they have to go to.They can only play this game a few hours of the day.Not everyone is a kid who lives with their parents.Don't bring up no dumb ass argument about "Well if they don't have time to play the game,they shouldn't be playing" because that doesn't even make sense.If someone is bored and they have a little free time to get on a computer and surf the internet, or they happen to want to play a game for a few hours before they have to go,they have the right to do that.They can keep doing that to a point where they find enough time to play the game naturally,without having to worry about being late for work or whatever.If anything,most of those players keep the game running.I don't find anything wrong with gramps per say,but more things wrong with an individual player.The player has choices.Once they get out on an actual field,I either hear two things."Ohhh,this game is boring,the exp from the monsters is too low or there are not enough monsters on the map D=".Where do they turn to now?You find out that they don't even have vip at that point.Then they start asking how to level more efficiently and what they could do better to earn more zeny,to try and get vip.Then they hear about Turn-Ins,which seems like a godsend to them...Sigh

 

What I'm trying to say is,Gramps is needed for a lot of players who play this game at this point.Taking it out now would only cause so many people to quit.

[Hireme]

Another thing that bugs me is that Gramps' dialogue is so 4th wall breaking. I mean, really? Hunt 400 monsters for no God damn reason whatsoever? Using gaming jargons and stuff. 

 

 

The whole Gramps thing is breaking the 4th wall. That is the reason why the TI Maps should be removed.

 

So ok, someone is able to teleport hundrets of monsters to a secluded space with no exits... so why the hell does gramps need our help to kill them?

 

GMs could select 9 (or even 12)  monsters ranging from 75 to 150 level range, that were not being killed so much in the last month (or so they say).

The spawn-rate of those monsters gets boosted (if necessary), so there is a overpopulation because no one killed them.

 

Now the monster population got out of hand and to make sure they don't overrun Midgard you have to kill them, and that is the quest gramps gives you.

 

Still a bit of a stretch, but way better that the current TI system. That is just a cheat mode... they don't even bother with a hint of a story...

 

"Ah an adventurer, quick get to glastheim, it's overrun by abysmal knights, and it has come to our attention that they will mount an attack against geffen, please help us!"

 

"We've gotten news of an angry Teddy Bear army forming north-west of einbroch, you can tell from their evil faces that they are up to no good, something has to be done!"

 

"There has been a demonic uprising in the prison at glastheim, help us to restore order"

 

"We have a terrible plague in Rachel and Veins, all the tourists are scared because of all the salamanders there, the Rachel-Veins Tourist board asks for your help!"

Edited by Hireme, 05 May 2014 - 03:19 AM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

"Ah an adventurer, quick get to glastheim, it's overrun by abysmal knights, and it has come to our attention that they will mount an attack against geffen, please help us!"

 

"We've gotten news of an angry Teddy Bear army forming north-west of einbroch, you can tell from their evil faces that they are up to no good, something has to be done!"

 

"There has been a demonic uprising in the prison at glastheim, help us to restore order"

 

"We have a terrible plague in Rachel and Veins, all the tourists are scared because of all the salamanders there, the Rachel-Veins Tourist board asks for your help!"

 

^ These would require a modicum of effort and creativity.

∴ nope.