233 replies to this topic

[Facekiller]

they should have amped up the quest rewards when renewal hit... and new quest should give better exp rewards... there should be more quests like the Criminal activities quest where (given the right level) would allow you to gain more than one level by completing it... instead the general mind state is that if it doesnt give you a good or cute headgear a quest isnt worth doing... and as it is now we havent gotten any new quests worth doing for the story in a long time..quests used to be a viable leveling method along side grinding and the occasional field turn in..  i understand that TI are a band aid fix for leveling concerns but why should we just settle for band aid fixes? IMO the spotlights are better fixes for the horrible exp rewards than the TI system... in fact id rather see the spotlights have Victoria quest and the adventurers guild (with increased exp rewards than they currently give) ... get people out on the maps and leveling... doing the quests... the maps should be full of players.... thats what they are there for... instead we have endless fights about what monsters and maps go into TI each week... while im sure it doesnt take much work to implement each TI each week thats time that could be spend on the GM side making sure things are running smoothly before the servers come up... not to mention by spreading players out should help reduce the lag...

[ilovemilk]

No this -_- again.

[ZeroTigress]

So do you prefer an aspect of the way Gramps use to work with him sending players to the actual map and/or having them walk there?

Send them to the actual maps! I don't mind if he teleports you to the actual maps, that's much better than being on instanced maps where the GMs spoonfeed you the stupid monsters by the hundreds.

[CharAznable]

I really don't see a point of sending people to actual map for Turn In. Not many of people will care about actual map when they're doing Turn In. And surrounding monsters/maps unless surrounding map also have increased spawn rate. Which will bring out more lag. Unless its more suggestive like spotlight, it wont make people go out for actual maps. It will be same spoon feeding but just regular map. which is more laggy. 

Edited by CharAznable, 03 May 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

Sending players to the actual maps would force them to have to actually play rather than make the AOE player do all the work. This would also address the issue of players speeding through levels without learning how to play their character.

In regards to the lag, the game is 10+ years old and working on outdated programming. The lag is unavoidable no matter how updated the hardware is.

[CharAznable]

Sending players to the actual maps would force them to have to actually play rather than make the AOE player do all the work. This would also address the issue of players speeding through levels without learning how to play their character.

In regards to the lag, the game is 10+ years old and working on outdated programming. The lag is unavoidable no matter how updated the hardware is.

 

Apart from Bio Lap 3~4, regular map is way more linear than Turn In and cannot bring out variations of monster together and flip elements. And if its Turn In, people will still AoE spam anyhow so I don't see your point at all. Actual map or not, its irreverent with current meta of the game, which is heavily focused on AoE. Notion of kRO patches are to buff specific AoE skill of each class. So this won't be changed. 

 

I'm not opposed to sending people to real map. I just think that Whether its Turn In Instance or Real Map Turn In, it wont solve problem with people not learning the game. 

 

Lag issue is something different than how you think. they created Turn In map separated so that they could reduce its lag. There is reason why it was separated. 

[f7up]

I'd say did you try to level AB ?

 

in High Ti with party of 8 ppl with VIP i got only 5% ( lvl 137 AB ) without the quest exp

and when i select base only exp I got 30% for both quests and that not very much 

if you can kill yes you can solo and get exp faster

but if you are FS AB ?

 

[CharAznable]

I'd say did you try to level AB ?

 

in High Ti with party of 8 ppl with VIP i got only 5% ( lvl 137 AB ) without the quest exp

and when i select base only exp I got 30% for both quests and that not very much 

if you can kill yes you can solo and get exp faster

but if you are FS AB ?

 

Thats also problem with current system of RO. You don't need AB outside of Turn In when you leveling. Pumpkin hat and alarm mask already have better heal rate per second. and priest just becomes buff slave. 

Edited by CharAznable, 03 May 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

Apart from Bio Lap 3~4, regular map is way more linear than Turn In and cannot bring out variations of monster together and flip elements. And if its Turn In, people will still AoE spam anyhow so I don't see your point at all. Actual map or not, its irreverent with current meta of the game, which is heavily focused on AoE. Notion of kRO patches are to buff specific AoE skill of each class. So this won't be changed.

I suppose.
 

I'm not opposed to sending people to real map. I just think that Whether its Turn In Instance or Real Map Turn In, it wont solve problem with people not learning the game.

People managed to learn fine before. If Gramps TIs isn't what caused it, then what did?
 

Lag issue is something different than how you think. they created Turn In map separated so that they could reduce its lag. There is reason why it was separated.

And yet I still get lag on the world maps so either they didn't do it right or the TI maps solved nothing.

[f7up]

Thats also problem with current system of RO. You don't need AB outside of Turn In when you leveling. Pumpkin hat and alarm mask already have better heal rate per second. and priest just becomes buff slave. 

 

 

So no one should play healer ?

what if you are MVPing ? ET ?

u'll not use pumpkin hat as you u'll need more damage ( another hat ? ) 

[CharAznable]

Problem with Ragnarok Online doesn't come from Turn In entirely. Sure, It will make people speed level and quickly jump in to 150. But I still see a lot of old players who aren't capable of clearing ET, or Malangdo Culver, or Bio mvp Counts, Thanatos Tower. Those are the things that need to be researched by themselves. Generic PvM is already too easy. whether people go outside of the Turn In or whatever, Its too easy already. Like many other said, Balance was fine untill we got more gears and no other contents to use those gear. Sadly, Old Glast Heim won't do the job because it offers even more powerful gear. and instance itself is damn easy to begin with. So in the end, maps like scaraba hall or Turn In won't teach people how to do well in WoE, or malangdo culvert. Its coming players mentality issue. Most of the games are catering to fast level up style. And RO being extremely slow fends people off. 

 

[CharAznable]

So no one should play healer ?

what if you are MVPing ? ET ?

u'll not use pumpkin hat as you u'll need more damage ( another hat ? ) 

 

You misunderstood what I said. Anyway, yes you can do ET without AB. and You can also solo MVP without AB. AB makes things easier for sure. But when it comes to regular leveling, aka grinding, AB is not as important. 

 

And I personally don't use pumpkin hat because i don't need to. I can face tank mobs with pumpkin spam, and kill them.

[Facekiller]

lets  face it... healer classes are not needed but are useful... but saying you dont need them outside ov TI vs inside of TI is kinda dumb.... either way youre still killing monsters.... the only difference is in TI its "rush through and kill 400 monsters as fast as humanly possible" where as outside of TI there is no required kill count nor is there a cooldown timer so no need to finish fast... id really like to see an expansion of the Spotlight features boosted exp for spotlight quests, victoria quest rewards and for Adventurer guild rewards... at this point with the almost endless flood of BMx3 and near constant Exp boosts do we really still need TI? especially when every other week groups of people claim the TI is horrible and that they cant use it properly (either due to monsters, maps or lag) and opt to sit that week out... EZ mode has run many dedicated players off because after all the time and effort they put into leveling their characters and upgrading their gears some total noob can come in and within a week have a maxed out character with +13 gears they didnt even have to work for... many of the players have become spoiled... they want super easy TI, on linear maps,  with double exp and drops and Enriched Hammer 24/7/365... when they dont get good TI, or upgrade events they just stop playing until they do... thats not how to keep a server alive...

[ZeroTigress]

Raising the population by making the rest of the game look unpopulated. 'Cause that's the best way to advertise RO to potential players.

[Alicia]

Can't say I like gramps turn ins, but I used to love the old maps with turn ins on them (goats, gators, etc).

 

I would enjoy seeing those again. I still have some old goats and gator turn ins completed in my log, but the NPC's have been removed.

 

Would be nice if Grampa would cash them in. I figure I will fill in all the kill count quests then use a BMx3 all at once.

 

I don't feel strongly about gramps either way. I know a lot of people enjoy it, and a lot don't, so maybe an alternative

 

solution for those of us who don't necesarilly enjoy gramps but would like to level up and don't have the time to grind.

 

Good topic and good job, I like to see real issues being discussed - politely too!

[spikexp]

Few weeks ago we had Alberta spotlight. Victoria wasn't there, Oda said quests are being restricted.

Spoiler

I asked a friend to hunt at the Turtles, we're 90s atm. I said that we can also get Eden quest while doing crystals. She asked me back, "What crystals?". She tagged along, and after I'm done with my Solider counts, she said, "I think TI is much faster than leveling here."

Point is, I don't hate Gramps being the way he is, but I'm starting to hate lazy-assed players who ONLY does TI for living.

Previous posts have mentioned ways to mitigate this problems, and I'm giving my +1 for:
> More Victoria'd quests and Adventurer Guild
> Greater range of spotlight (well, 100~150 for the current one seems enough tho)
> Make gramps super boring or super challenging (and hell, why tf we didn't get Stings and Firelocks)
> Make gramps less profitable

That being said, it's back again to the players' themselves whether they want to explore the world or not.

[CharAznable]

lets  face it... healer classes are not needed but are useful... but saying you dont need them outside ov TI vs inside of TI is kinda dumb.... either way youre still killing monsters.... the only difference is in TI its "rush through and kill 400 monsters as fast as humanly possible" where as outside of TI there is no required kill count nor is there a cooldown timer so no need to finish fast... id really like to see an expansion of the Spotlight features boosted exp for spotlight quests, victoria quest rewards and for Adventurer guild rewards... at this point with the almost endless flood of BMx3 and near constant Exp boosts do we really still need TI? especially when every other week groups of people claim the TI is horrible and that they cant use it properly (either due to monsters, maps or lag) and opt to sit that week out... EZ mode has run many dedicated players off because after all the time and effort they put into leveling their characters and upgrading their gears some total noob can come in and within a week have a maxed out character with +13 gears they didnt even have to work for... many of the players have become spoiled... they want super easy TI, on linear maps,  with double exp and drops and Enriched Hammer 24/7/365... when they dont get good TI, or upgrade events they just stop playing until they do... thats not how to keep a server alive...

 

How is out side map Turn In doesn't have counts? if it doesn't have counts its not Turn In. Get your fact right. Even Eden Board Turn In have Cooldowns. So I don't get your point at all. Expansion of the Spotlight will just bring more problem with 3x BM so expanding its reward even further might be dangerous.

 

Healer class are must in Turn In situation but not must outside of Turn In. They're useful addition to many occasion but Mvping and other stuff can be done without AB. A noob with +13 gear requires a lot of KP. I've made many many +9~14 gears in the past year. They cost tons of zeny to achieve. + its RNG. So you're bringing in irreverent issue here again. Game is already easy mode without +13 or whatever gear. I really don't get whats benefit from playing normal map. You don't learn anything. Its same "immune or DR for garment" and "proper racial damage reduc shield" and AoE. You can choose to ctrl+click or whatever but that doesn't change the fundamental of the game mechanic. Which is very linear. 

 

You're talking about spamming 3xbm and rushing with Turn In, But with new world spotlight i can 125->150 with 3xbm in probably a day(1 level per 30 min max) if i wanted to. So then spotlight is also easy mode for people who can afford 3xbm so we shouldn't have spotlight entirely. Not to mention Scaraba is WAY easier than Imp/Sally which what current Turn In offers. Do I need expansive gears? probably not. I can do it with mediocre gears and use kagerou(probably weakest class for pvm apart from maestro/wanderer/AB) and still do the same thing. Because they're all weak to fire, and insect race. Easy to set up optimal damage build for that particular place. 

 

Not everyone have 3xbm and when we're saying easy mode, its catering to people who have spent good amount of effort into game. No new player can afford 3xbm endlessly. 

Edited by CharAznable, 03 May 2014 - 08:44 PM.

[spikexp]

Spoiler

How is out side map Turn In doesn't have counts? if it doesn't have counts its not Turn In. Get your fact right. Even Eden Board Turn In have Cooldowns. So I don't get your point at all. Expansion of the Spotlight will just bring more problem with 3x BM so expanding its reward even further might be dangerous.
 
Healer class are must in Turn In situation but not must outside of Turn In. They're useful addition to many occasion but Mvping and other stuff can be done without AB. A noob with +13 gear requires a lot of KP. I've made many many +9~14 gears in the past year. They cost tons of zeny to achieve. + its RNG. So you're bringing in irreverent issue here again. Game is already easy mode without +13 or whatever gear. I really don't get whats benefit from playing normal map. You don't learn anything. Its same "immune or DR for garment" and "proper racial damage reduc shield" and AoE. You can choose to ctrl+click or whatever but that doesn't change the fundamental of the game mechanic. Which is very linear. 
 
You're talking about spamming 3xbm and rushing with Turn In, But with new world spotlight i can 125->150 with 3xbm in probably a day(1 level per 30 min max) if i wanted to. So then spotlight is also easy mode for people who can afford 3xbm so we shouldn't have spotlight entirely. Not to mention Scaraba is WAY easier than Imp/Sally which what current Turn In offers. Do I need expansive gears? probably not. I can do it with mediocre gears and use kagerou(probably weakest class for pvm apart from maestro/wanderer/AB) and still do the same thing. Because they're all weak to fire, and insect race. Easy to set up optimal damage build for that particular place. 
 
Not everyone have 3xbm and when we're saying easy mode, its catering to people who have spent good amount of effort into game. No new player can afford 3xbm endlessly.

i thought this game is p2w to begin with. i've met several players, said that they're new (about 3 months or so), and had +9 leet thingies on a lot of his chars. so what's keeping them from buying bmxs?

Edited by spikexp, 03 May 2014 - 09:00 PM.

[CharAznable]

i thought this game is p2w to begin with. i've met several players, said that they're new (about 3 months or so), and had +9 leet thingies on a lot of his chars. so what's keeping them from buying bmxs?

 

Its p2w when you decide to do so. I've also met several players who are insist on not getting VIP and KP to play the game. So whats keeping them away from buying KP? This kind of stuff can be said to many other occasion. 

[ZeroTigress]

Players should be playing on world maps and finding their targets, not have the GMs spoonfeed them the monsters. TI maps basically put the responsibility of hunting in the hands of GMs where it shouldn't be. GMs shouldn't be responsible for player leveling. Why do they need to concern themselves with what monsters to put in the TIs? Players should be doing that on their own instead.

Not only that, how misleading is it to show players there are hundreds of players on the server but the world maps are unpopulated?

[spikexp]

Its p2w when you decide to do so. I've also met several players who are insist on not getting VIP and KP to play the game. So whats keeping them away from buying KP? This kind of stuff can be said to many other occasion.

then it's back to the player's mentality

[seaechiowai]

Players should be playing on world maps and finding their targets, not have the GMs spoonfeed them the monsters. TI maps basically put the responsibility of hunting in the hands of GMs where it shouldn't be. GMs shouldn't be responsible for player leveling. Why do they need to concern themselves with what monsters to put in the TIs? Players should be doing that on their own instead.

Not only that, how misleading is it to show players there are hundreds of players on the server but the world maps are unpopulated?

 

Like I said, it's a necessary evil. You talk a good ideal, but the fact is that management needs to keep up the player count. It affects their very paycheck. That's why they are handing out easy exps. Is there a better way to do that besides TI? Yeah, of course. It's complicated between what is Okayed by Korean staffs.

[CharAznable]

Thats why we have spotlight. It gives people reason to go out in the world and play the game. turn in happened because a lot of people cried about how leveling is badly scaled when kRO is doing just fine without 3xbm or spotlight. So It was GM's fault from the start to catering in Q_Qer. since then, we have had 3 years of Turn In. And i can say "most" of people are used to these "fast" leveling style. Which in turn if you get rid of Turn In/Spotlight and put it back to vanilla a lot of people who doesn't appreciate slow style leveling will just ultimately quit. Which includes many ABs because it will be hard for them to finding good hunting partner who will carry them with 50% exp penalty. 

 

This is why i'm suggesting to have low/mid/high level spotlight cycling to make people have more choice on hunting. Juno Spotlight encouraged people to go outside to magna dun and make pulling party. That was great to see. And i want to see that more regularly, not just with one spotlight per month. multiple spotlight per month will encourage enough people to go outside of turn in, and it will balance out. Like i said, 200% exp will even out Turn In reward. because Turn In, you're just getting exp of 800 monster. in spotlight you get same amount with 400 monsters. 

 

If we get low/mid/high spotlight, then we can get rid of turn in entirely. But that will be hard because how maps are structured. 

Edited by CharAznable, 03 May 2014 - 09:19 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

Like I said, it's a necessary evil. You talk a good ideal, but the fact is that management needs to keep up the player count. It affects their very paycheck. That's why they are handing out easy exps. Is there a better way to do that besides TI? Yeah, of course. It's complicated between what is Okayed by Korean staffs.

It wasn't just an ideal back then...

Edited by ZeroTigress, 03 May 2014 - 09:17 PM.

[Kuroyukiii]

I hate Gramps and his TI because, he born a haters like you guys. Nobody get time for old school grinding nowadays.

 

 

j/k