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Upcoming Skill Changes(Pt. 5); Rogue, Shadow Runner, and Assassin


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#51 Viole

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 11:58 AM

Those sugestions are good only for him and other SS sins.

 

The only problem AA sins have are not having a higher tier armor available to them, and of course the occasional dash glitch, aside from that they do their job pretty well.


Edited by Viole, 08 June 2014 - 12:02 PM.

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#52 Unbound

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:37 PM

 

 

using brain is not a nerf ;)

 

e: for some ppl it may be a nerf....

 

 

The nerf needed is AA Sins.

 

 

 

 

The only problem AA sins have are not having a higher tier armor available to them, and of course the occasional dash glitch, aside from that they do their job pretty well.

 

 

 

Thats not a problem, thats how it should be. Give Sins lvl 90 CAD armors and they will AA down 40k HP in scud time. Again, Scud, AA, nothing else. AA Sins only need slow before dashing out. Skill Assassin is the future, accept it, embrace it.

 

 

AA should be strong as a low to mid level mechanic. You should be allowed to still use AA but it should never have the power of using Skill Combos in PvP, sounds logical to me. As you said, they are automatic and this is where I will blame the problems of this class. Current skills only do damage with worse DPS than AA, so of course everybody goes with easymode. I think; add good and more interesting skills = less Scud + AA Sins. I am building upon and improving instead of nerfing, as all you should be doing to your own class.


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#53 Viole

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 12:55 PM

The nerf needed is AA Sins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats not a problem, thats how it should be. Give Sins lvl 90 CAD armors and they will AA down 40k HP in scud time. Again, Scud, AA, nothing else. AA Sins only need slow before dashing out. Skill Assassin is the future, accept it, embrace it.

 

 

AA should be strong as a low to mid level mechanic. You should be allowed to still use AA but it should never have the power of using Skill Combos in PvP, sounds logical to me. As you said, they are automatic and this is where I will blame the problems of this class. Current skills only do damage with worse DPS than AA, so of course everybody goes with easymode. I think; add good and more interesting skills = less Scud + AA Sins. I am building upon and improving instead of nerfing, as all you should be doing to your own class.

 

Like I said, I like your ideas for Assassin a lot. It's pretty much on-point with what I'd like for SS serk but for SS serk it's a bit harder to implement aside from X skill should hit hard, which not many people would like. Definitely out of the AA classes that can skill spam, sin has it better but as you said it is quite lacking in terms of DPS. I agree STR/CAD is a bit too much for a higher level set, there would have to be a trade off of defensive with some offensive capabilities that isn't this combination. Pretty much the current AA playstyle on a high HP target is what you've described, especially with dashes not inducing combat anymore (which I think was a mistake but they probably can't fix it so that dashes don't induce combat in stealth and safezones only). I think another thing that should be addressed is the problem with melee skills vs a target with high block defense and block rate as all skill spammers would not do any damage at all.

 

I also disagree with changing stealth as well, just buff up rangers and elementalists so they're actually used again. In any case sins have enough trouble with the constant AoE wall, especially considering they don't have the luxury of capping all resists without a major trade-off usually (at least in the case of AA, I can see SS managing this a little better). 

 

The major problem here is people criticizing the class without actually PLAYING the class or talking to people who have in a non-antagonistic manner, or without pre-disposed ideas on why they think the class is stronger than it actually is. Like I said your points are very valid and definitely in the right direction with assassins to add something unique as an alternative to a class that is stuck with very stale, yet effective playstyle being good and the other being extremely lacking damage wise.


Edited by Viole, 08 June 2014 - 12:56 PM.

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#54 zombi3

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:17 PM

The nerf needed is AA Sins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats not a problem, thats how it should be. Give Sins lvl 90 CAD armors and they will AA down 40k HP in scud time. Again, Scud, AA, nothing else. AA Sins only need slow before dashing out. Skill Assassin is the future, accept it, embrace it.

 

 

AA should be strong as a low to mid level mechanic. You should be allowed to still use AA but it should never have the power of using Skill Combos in PvP, sounds logical to me. As you said, they are automatic and this is where I will blame the problems of this class. Current skills only do damage with worse DPS than AA, so of course everybody goes with easymode. I think; add good and more interesting skills = less Scud + AA Sins. I am building upon and improving instead of nerfing, as all you should be doing to your own class.

 

I disagree with that, however i do agree there should be more of a choice between SS & AA, make SS more appealing to play, at the moment, give them abilities that are worth choosing SS, the only thing that's wrong with AA sins, (and almost ever class) is the fact that trinity weapons have insanely high damage, the weapon concept was half baked, if you fight an AA sin with Ominous/ Uncursed dual swords they're damage is incredibly less and its the same for zerk/WL, Even SS sins If you build an SS sin for pure DPS you can get 13k+ damage from explosive hacking(0 Defense & Trinity claws), The best an AA sin can hit is around 3k*2 on 0 defense & Trinity swords,I've played both SS & AA sins as well as SR, the advantage of SS sin, is they get 2 aoe's which means they are more effective in battlefield pvp, or killing multiple enemies at once, I like your idea's for breaking pieces and lightning speed. this will give SS sins more incentive to get more AoE's and possibly make more appealing SS sin
On a side note i disagree about Stealing Weapon from 4-40% damage, it should steal the attack from the weapon(leaving attack power from str/dex) as the name implies it's removing the weapon from the player, however this skill should have a short duration, 63 seconds max+dna is kinda.. lol. maybe give30 seconds max, keep the same cooldown time.


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#55 Eladar

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:24 AM

For those who demand skill nerf, you must take into account that not everybody plays pvp and those changes you demand are only for that. The assassin is meant to keep their targets stunned as long as possible in order not to give them a chance to strike back. A nerf of the stuns would mean rogues couldn't play alone any longer. If those changes have effect ONLY in battlefields like in the game Guild Wars, then nothing to complain about. But lowering a class only because it is too strong in pvp is dooming it also in pve, So I say no changes at all.


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#56 Sandyman

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:44 AM

We had PvE Doom in the Past -there is no PvE Doom anymore.

 

The Prize for: Stealth / Scud and Soccer Kick is: no Heals.

 

The old: Balance Formula: better at PvE vs. better at PvP is broken.

 

Heals are Broken! Mind don`t play any crucial role.

 

.We should speak about a Balancing for each FoC Bracket but all i see is lvl 90 +30 Talk

 

What speaks for itself.

 

There should be a Scad/Cad / Defense / Resist Cap for each FoC Bracket and for each Class! - if you ask me.

 

and not limited by +30 i mean^^

 

But that would mean: reducing the benefits from Reinforcing/Enchanting and Compounding.

 

And 3 Times you can guess if they do that. 

 


Edited by Sandyman, 09 June 2014 - 05:47 AM.

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#57 Horst110

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:05 AM

nerf this nerf that its just pathetic

if u realy wanna "balance" the game u should start with reinforcement system (would be abit unfair to ppl who spend alot malls) and not the skills...

the thing is most sins are mainchars (with full+30 equip or close to it) and i think they deserve to be strong... (they paid for it alot money/time)

and all the glasscanons (have OP dmg  but die in 4-5hits, why not invest some in HP/def?) and ppl with crap equip come here for QQ now..

even with nerfed skills a +10player/classcannon wont survive a +30 DPS sin and if u nerf the "OP" skills like sw,scud a +10 sin will never kill anything.

when u have the right gear u wont have any problem with sins..

 

sins have the worst stats in bf? lol if u play it right u can be 1of the top killers (sure depends on team..if your teams sux then u will suck too even with +30 equip) and maybe dont scud alone into a group of 6 ppl ^^ (look for 1vs1 situaions or ppl u can kill fast enough before u get catched or just teamplay)

 

if u ask me sins are good how they are...

 

ok to the classes now...

 

 

rouge:

 

*remove the skill shadowrunner (the fillerskill for stealth)...its useless

 

*maybe boost dopple abit (i still like it for unstealth lowlvlsins i can see)

 

 

assasin:

 

* remove succes% dna of soccerkick and replace it with dna for more buffs that can get kicked... would be good for stop commies in 50sec rambomode

(adamant mind is unkickeble if they have more then 10buffs)

 

*dont touch scud,home trust, stealing weapon,dashes and blinding attack (if u nerf it sin will become to cannonfodder) trust me!

 

im playing a +30 DPS sin and a average CON zerker (2pieces +30 rest 9-15) and im allready have a chance to kill full+30 sins in 1vs1 with my zerk

and still have problems with my sin to kill other +30Zerks/WL/commies/prots/etc even with the "OP" skills ( if they know whats they are doing..)

 

i would suggest give every class a instant meleestun for like 1-3sec for fight back the sin (if they can survive scud and time it right)

 

 

shadowrunner:

 

i dont know much about them so i wont say anything to this

 

 

thats my feedback... and sry for the long text and my bad english ^^v

 

 

 


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#58 Unbound

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:19 AM

Dash Bugs


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#59 IVixxl

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:23 PM

Assassins have really bad defense and HP (if you dont use 79/85 CON armor or jewels CON)

Stealing Weapon is the only way for have a chance to defeat melee classes with assassin. Its neccesary this skill; If not sin will die :P

Sin was born and made for pure pvp, must have stuns slow for defeat enemys to compesate the bad HP/def they have.
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#60 Sandyman

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:46 PM

each Class have Pro and Cons that logic.

 

and each Class have really bad HP if they don`t use Con Armor and Jewels thats Cash Shop.

 

it must come from E-peen Ego to think i play a Sin so i must be better VS Everyone or something must be wrong with the Game or Class balancing^^

 

Every Class has his natural Enemy - thats why we have Stealth detect.

 

If you want compensation for everything play as a [GM] but where is the allure.

 

If you played other Classes as well you know every Class has his Weaknesses.

 

If that would not be so you would see only 1 Class in Game.

 

Accept that you can defeat most of the other Classes but can`t (and should not ) not Win in every Situation.

 

I`m tired of Player thinking i must Win VS Everyone and Every time cuz. i`m a Sin.

 

no offense... :p_err:

 


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#61 EdenEcho

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 03:28 PM

[ text ]


i love your signature, well done :ani_wow:


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#62 Mavericky

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:21 PM

hi to all
the name of my sin in game is MataPato, this sin have so-so about 4 years or more, the sin in this game are outdated increasingly, many are always crying because of sin's stuns but I say that when you modify this class will end up with as many things have happened in the game and these changes are becoming increasingly sin not as a character already scarier.
classes as comanders, protectors, healers, Zerks, druids and warlords are already often laughing sin's since they achieve the maximum defense just uploading their equipment classes and those who did not manage it as well as the sins are outdated die in defense and very fast because they will be fighting against players who achieve max defense with only ups their equipment or passives, where I'm going? the damage of a sin is now not the same anymore! some playes these classes mentioned above are not in the game killed more by sins or after 7 seconds + 3 seconds scud Home Trhust and you guys still come say they want to reduce the time of stuns? Today sins kills only players who are not yet 30 equips because after all they upgrade their equips the difficulty starts.
one more thing to sin class deserves a DNA for the soccer kick as many players use 20 buffs and buffs that they do not want them to be removed are always lastly after the first 10 buffs removed after the soccer kick is a trick that works well for many players, for example, a comander puts adamantine mind as last buff, this skill will only be removed after two soccer kick but until you get to use twice this skill you will be dead,
the same goes for healers mana shield and various other skills that make the CAP along with passive defense some much more powerful than others, and more and more outdated the sin's classes.
Sin's deserve equipaments with more damage and the opition choice if u want choice CAD or SCAD coz we have 2 tipes of sins in this game SS or AA
sins AA want CAD and sins SS want SCAD, with this new armours 85 Sins AA lose many damage and are using RH armour yet coz only it ill give you an good damage like i said outdated informations about this class and you need join in game and chat with sins players ''TOP PLAYERS"" to learn about this class the good and bad points.
sorry for my broken inglish coz im a Brazilian guy and i only want help.

Edited by Mavericky, 09 June 2014 - 07:23 PM.

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#63 CG6HU3HM2

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:14 AM

MataPato…u really telling the ture? 20 buffs ? i never see any pking toon can get 20 buffs, do u screenshot?let us check……and not 10s stun…is total 18s stun+ stun lock -->more than 20s……
me is a noob tank…vs sin…just stun…stun…stun…until die…
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#64 Horst110

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:47 AM

oh and i forgott something...

 

i cant agree with all what mister unbound suggest... how warjat said its only good for him and other SS sins

 

1. playing a CON sin and complain about bad damage?  lol think about it and u can answer to urself

 

2. reduce quickattack and forditude to 30sec with 20sec CD?  sure 1soccerkick in 1vs1 and AA sin is pretty useless for 20sec(nice try to screw up AA sins)

 

but i like the suggestion for breaking pieces and lighting...would make worth taking the skills

 

and for stealth....just boost elementalist,rangers and avengers...i dont know if u ever fight guys like weehaw,aisaka or bumble they are allready badass and realy annoying to fight

 

and to the guy above me.. u should go back to schooll...7+3 is not 18!!! :heh:


Edited by Horst110, 10 June 2014 - 06:56 AM.

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#65 Unbound

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:12 AM

oh and i forgott something...

 

i cant agree with all what mister unbound suggest... how warjat said its only good for him and other SS sins

 

1. playing a CON sin and complain about bad damage?  lol think about it and u can answer to urself

 

2. reduce quickattack and forditude to 30sec with 20sec CD?  sure 1soccerkick in 1vs1 and AA sin is pretty useless for 20sec(nice try to screw up AA sins)

 

but i like the suggestion for breaking pieces and lighting...would make worth taking the skills

 

and for stealth....just boost elementalist,rangers and avengers...i dont know if u ever fight guys like weehaw,aisaka or bumble they are allready badass and realy annoying to fight

 

 

Hello new person.

 

 

 Yes, I made suggestions that would boost Skill-Using Sins... and ? The same senseless Scud-AA-DashAway style has been used by Sins since beginning of the game. AA style is common and easy to achieve, uses the strength of  instant-cast overpowered skills rather than mixed attack combos. Low level Sins with weak gear and no ability to their character whatsoever are able to Scud, Slow, and SW to success because these skills require zero combo and have devastating effects, this should be considered when making changes. I'm am not even asking for damage, my requests are in strategic-ability skills that are related to battlefields and not 1 vs 1.

 

 

1. Damage ? CON ? What ? This is about Skills, Abilities, Durations, and Cooldowns.  AA Sins use the strongest of the Sin SKILLS with no penalty, and Skill-Sins only have the ability to Crit and does not have more possibilities or abilities, there is something wrong with that. A better line needs to be drawn between those that choose to DPS and those that choose to use technique. If AA Sins have dominant damage, SS Sins should have more dominant abilities. Again, my suggestions have mostly effect in large-scale PvP such as battlefields and strategic team PvP.

 

2. Theres nothing wrong with 20 second cooldown on a 30 second buff, all it requires is that you use your brain to remember to use it more often. Not everything is 1 vs 1,  this is about combat dynamics, attack-buffs that last more than 30 seconds makes things very easy.

 

 

 One thing for sure, there are too many Scud-AA-EasyWin" Sins that make this class common and bandwagonable because no real skill use needed other than SW here and there. I vote for anything that makes this class more difficult but strategic to play. I am not saying to nerf damage of AA Sins,  instead offered to give Skills that make them stronger on the battlefield those who choose to use them, making it fair for choice between pure damage and technique.


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#66 Horst110

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:50 AM

dear mister unbound..i dont wanna argue with u...BUT

 

using "BRAIN" in a pay2win game? come on this is totally nonsense ^^....the ppl who play this game long enough know only gear matter

 

there are sin that decided many years ago to go for AA sin (lame but effective) and build the gear and skills on that.

 

and because YOU dont like it and suck on battlefields because YOU dont know how to play there all AA sins should be nerfed and get forced into use more skills? and all skills need to be changed for YOU? come on.....how i said in my first post it allways depends on teams in battlefield ( but most ppl think : im +30 hohoho and can go rambostyle) maybe YOU should use your BRAIN in battlefield?!

 

and i dont think every AA sin wanna buff every 30sec in PVP and PVE because its realy annoying...

 

 

 

 


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#67 Unbound

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:23 AM

dear mister unbound..i dont wanna argue with u...BUT

 

using "BRAIN" in a pay2win game? come on this is totally nonsense ^^....the ppl who play this game long enough know only gear matter

 

there are sin that decided many years ago to go for AA sin (lame but effective) and build the gear and skills on that.

 

and because YOU dont like it and suck on battlefields because YOU dont know how to play there all AA sins should be nerfed and get forced into use more skills? and all skills need to be changed for YOU? come on.....how i said in my first post it allways depends on teams in battlefield ( but most ppl think : im +30 hohoho and can go rambostyle) maybe YOU should use your BRAIN in battlefield?!

 

and i dont think every AA sin wanna buff every 30sec in PVP and PVE because its realy annoying...

 

 

 

You don't want to argue with me ? Wrong place to be ;}

 

Pay2win is a choice. There are several +30 players who played the game to win. You're just further demonstrating your shallow perception and understanding of the subject. Gear is ANOTHER topic, why mix them ? I agree there can be a better system than the current one, but you are mixing up two different issues to try and justify yourself.

 

I'm the only SkillCrit Sin on the server ? Do you play this game ? What level area ?  Everything you say is empty of facts or knowledge.. AA Sin is going out of fashion, time to do your research.

 

There are many people who would be very interested to use an Assassin that is more than the current trashy Scud AA Dash system. Its about giving more options and more freedom to something that has been the same exact thing for years. To innovate and make anew something stagnant and lame.. If you want to play AA Sin, enjoy! its got same OP DPS !  Skill Sins have less damage, I'm requesting abilities to make it more strategically valuable. Why you scared of Sin Skills getting interesting ?

 

 

Also, you FAIL to realize that there are few Sins that are "SS-Only", many go Hybrid and benefit from both AA and SS. With 100% physical critical on my character, I am allowed to make suggestions against my own class's ability.

 

 

 

Try me again.


Edited by Unbound, 10 June 2014 - 11:25 AM.

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#68 warjat69

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

Threat - your suggestion for useless skills like: Excessive Bleeding, Lightning Speed, Breaking Pieces are really ok but reduced cooldowns for aoe? ;) (i know you like those skills! :D ) With this setup and this idea about buffs duration and cooldowns AA sin is a bit screwed, couse you can spam with SE and Infection like a crazy and buff for speed atack or phisical crit are not so important for you like for AA.

 

 

 


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#69 Unbound

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:12 PM

Cooldown of AoEs is to farm mobs not players.


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#70 warjat69

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:47 PM

Well SE hit hard even with low SCAD when crit so i imagine SS sin with expolosive set which can spam with this skill as mad. Oh + range DNA.


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#71 Unbound

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 04:14 PM

As a primary offense skill and the only one that allows us to deal damage without a target, SE currently has what I would consider an extremely long cooldown. I'm not saying make it spammable, I'm asking to make it more usable.

 

 

Also, all this is suggestions.. shouldn't take every word and number I wrote or write too literally.

 

 

This game and many things in it are very stale. Its difficult to make these suggestions without stepping on toes and egos, but please try to keep your minds open considering the current state of the game, and many things need to change before we can move forward. I believe that in addition to balancing current skills, that new ones should be added.


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#72 Mavericky

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:30 PM

MataPato…u really telling the ture? 20 buffs ? i never see any pking toon can get 20 buffs, do u screenshot?let us check……and not 10s stun…is total 18s stun+ stun lock -->more than 20s……
me is a noob tank…vs sin…just stun…stun…stun…until die…

u never see? then maybe u never play this game vs commanders OP just log sometimes and look the commanders stragies to never stay without the adamantine mind, like some healers doing the same to never lose the mana shield. and yeah ill try get pictures with this to show u. :) 


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#73 Mavericky

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

4mxItQ7.jpg


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#74 Mavericky

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:58 PM

11 buffs... the last one ill be the adamantine mind and theys never ill lose it coz the soccer kick ill get out only the first 10 buffs...
like i said we need DNA for Soccer kick.


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#75 TheMasterDude

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

FYI max amount of buffs you can have at one time is 16 I believe. After that you start losing them.

 

 

Also my 2 cents is that sins should have harder hitting skills but make them have cast time like most other classes. Say 2 new poison skills that have DoT effects that hit hard upon first hit, but with 1.5-3 second casting time.

 

Soccer kick should be able to remove either attack buffs, or defence buffs, not almost everything. If you play a squishy class that relies upon buffs to keep you safe when walking through a pvp zone and then get them kicked for a 1 hit ko, it gets kind of annoying after a while.

 

I agree that sins need harder hitting skills though. Probably the best balance in my opinion is that the stun duration is reduced some while increasing the attack dmg of the skills already in place.


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