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#26 kimsera

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

Ever since the developers increased the defense and added Penetration of Dayr(?) and Osiris mobs, you can blatantly see that high weapon/armor upgrades, hones, and seed runes to an extent are what they are pushing for. (Besides making Priests the master race) Hint: $$$$$$$$#MONEYINTHEBANK$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

As long as they create events that gives the player-base free refine mediums, very few people will actually voice their discontent with the ridiculous amount of benefits from weapon/armor upgrades. Sadly, I don't actually know a lot of players left that actually have enough faith in the developers to actually balance this mess of a game.


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#27 Greven79

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:57 AM

Renavito isn't just a skill to top up your tank, it also heals the dps who are supposed to be avoiding hits. And a mere 3k tick is not going to help sustain a average 30k~35k party member. Rather than making it op to top up someone, I suggest a moderate increase in the MPW % and a duration increase. 12 Seconds is way too short to HOT up a party, (I'm pretty sure this gets annoying in your rotation) priests should be specialized in this aspect. Perhaps we could talk scaling the Percentage based on the duration of the skill? Maybe it could use a level increase instead to determine that?  

 

Simply put, priests need's a better (HOT) heal to maintain their party and manage threat control. I don't think its a good idea to  have to highness heal all of your dps all the time. Unless you intend to tank the adds that is.  

 

That's totally wrong, imo.

 

Pre-AoV calculation formula for healers: Heal amount = damage amount.

Pre-AoV, usually all classes dealt between 22~25% damage per second.

 

Swordman - Bash: 25%

Thief - Double Attack: 25%

Monk - Raging Blow: 25%

Magician - Lightning Bolt: 22%

 

All these skills could be activated once per second. Archers and Priests (and Fire-Mages) were special, because they had a casting time of 1sec. Therefore, they could activate their skills only every other second, but they've dealt double damage as well:

 

Archer - Charge Arrow: 45% (= 22.5% per second)

Acolyte - Holy Light: 39% (=19.5% per second)

Magician - Firebolt: 49% (24.5% per second)

 

The priest Heal skill was made similar and could outheal the damage - IF the Priest does nothing else but healing:

 

Acolyte - Heal: 43% (21.5% per second)

 

Now you could transfer that to DoT skills and the according HoTs as well. Most attackers only have one such skill and usually the DoTs deal about 10~15% damage per two seconds (Head Crush, Poisoned Weapon, Firestarter, Wild Crush).

 

Conclusion:

The idea behind Renovatio simply was to outheal the DoTs mentioned above. It wasn't designed with the goal to heal multiple DPS classes in raids. I also bet that the duration was cut down to 10~12sec on purpose to avoid such a thing. BUT as I've written in my last reply: The DoTs were overpowered for two classes - Priest and Ranger (and later Soulmaker / Crecentia). That's why I reccmmend to decrease the DoTs and HoTs until none of them is more than 1/4 as effective as the usual bread-&-butter skill of that class (regarded DPS wise).

 

A Renovatio that heals 20% the amount of a Heal per second, must have a skill multiplier of less than 110%. To compensate the loss, increase the duration instead.

 

Preverred Renovatio: 110% heal over time, duration 20~30sec


Edited by Greven79, 24 July 2014 - 07:34 AM.

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#28 Greven79

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:56 AM

... The cons of pre-AoV is when 2 Priest and 2 Sorc/SM are not enough to keep 10-man raid alive, do people really want that?

 

Yes, I'd rather like to have the old Pre-AoV difficulty level back than the current one.
 

Healing skills are fine, even if some are just 1 crit = full heal.

 

That's wrong. What I really liked about the pre-AoV priest was the simple fact that it required some knowledge to play a good one and that every skill was useful and outstanding in it's purpose.

 

  • Heal: No cooldown = best healing. A boosted Heal > a boosted Highness Heal when healing a single target.
  • Renovatio: A fire-&-forget skill that created one of the best total healing effect per skill use
  • Highness Heal: 3 targets and therefore affected all the typical raid melees (main-tank, off-tank, melee-dps).
  • Coloseo Heal: Full heal with instantaneous effect. Better healing capabilities than Highness Heal.
  • Resurrection: For those who thought that Shadow Armor, Gangster's Paradise or Ice Wall shouldn't be maxed.
  • Sanctuary: Best heal. Sadly, used too often to help under-equipped characters survive the boss-AoE.

.. and that's why I leveled them all.

 

Right now, the Priest is too overpowered. IMO, no healing skill besided Coloseo should be able to fully heal a character. You guys get too too cosseted by one-shot kills and too fastidous to mob 20+ creatures to fasten up the leveling process.

  • Heal shouldn't recover more than 5k. With 3 crits from aspersio i'ts a total of 30k. That's fair enough.
  • Renovatio would be about 2.5k per tick, which is still too much. Should be <1.5k with an increased duration.
  • Highness Heal would recover 10k. With Aspersio 15k plus a 2k HoT.... a total of 25k.
  • Coloseo Heal can stay the same.
  • Sanctuary would heal 10k per tick! Remove Aspersio boost and improve Angelus or Assumptio instead.
  • Resurrection should have a min cooldown of 5~10min instead.
  • Sacrament is by far too underpowered. Should increase the MATK by 30% (see beastmaster - Bear Form)
  • Suffragium should increase cast speed by 30%. For most skills, casting time makes up less than 50% of the total skill activation time. So +30% cast speed is no better than a 15% damage increase.

Edited by Greven79, 24 July 2014 - 09:30 PM.

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#29 Exvee

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:24 AM

Yes, I'd rather like to have the old Pre-AoV difficulty level back than the current one.
 

 

That's wrong. What I really liked about the pre-AoV priest was the simple fact that it required some knowledge to play a good one and that every skill was useful and outstanding in it's purpose.

 

 

It's not that I disagree with this, but knowing Gravity and my history since RO1 you just better quit the game if you want all your essay implemented...

 

I actually have more fun playing Priest during LoTS era, I get some good lesson and experience for timing healing and such but again some friends even not interested during pre-AoV due to how bad game design by forcing Spinels in high-tier boss strategy (how many spinels I burn while now I can just use my money for Infinium instead?).

 

Now that most healings buffed up, but there is main issue that break the game which is DPS skills. If DPS nerfed, people can still use healings and back what Priest meant to be ever since RO1 but if heals nerfed people will even choose more DPS skills and only pick 1 kind of heal then done, even maybe I prefer to not become healer anymore. Remember that despite SM and Sorc also healer, Priest should be main heal in concept for most RPG..

 

If you ask how my Priest's build, here is comparison:

LoTs: lv 1 DoTs, lv 5 RoG and holy light, many heal maxed then some mandatories (lv 5 bless etc) --> Hybrid, can still pvp at least colo but obviously heal oriented

AoV::  lv 5 DoTs, lv 3 magnus, renovatio maxed, everything else lv 1 beside mandatories --> hybrid but close to no heals

 

What most people want now is to at least bring back the LoTs type and nerfing heal is not the way to go (at least not all of them should be nerfed)... Honestly I don't mind with LoTs weak heals but I don't want it too weak and now I'm not crying for Heals until DPS adjusted (nerf but not make them too weak ala RO1)

 

Note: if there is anything to blame, blame  either the new formula for Meditation or Aspersio. Even if it's unknown formula we do know that's the main source for 10x Heal damage. I'm sure normal heal is fine because I need to heal people multiple times without Aspersio and Aspersio always causing crit Heals...


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#30 charissard

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:15 PM

-Meditatio doesn't do what it's advertised it does. Clarity on how it works is needed (in terms of specific formulas)

I've tried maxing my meditatio, and changed to level1. Not much difference :v Kinda confused on how it works.

 

 

renovatio is okay as it is. highness heal+reno already heals for total 10k+ non crit. don't make it too more op. HoTs aren't meant to full heal with just  1 tick.

 

I saw your post about suffragium. the casting speed is noticable to me.

 

Recovery should be no cast because with the cooldown it's got. it's pointless because you get debuffed right after again anyway. (pvp)

Agree with Suffragium, it is noticeable to me too.  And I don't know if it's just me but my Recovery cannot remove debuffs during PvP, but can be used when debuffed by monsters :v

 

 

Renavito isn't just a skill to top up your tank, it also heals the dps who are supposed to be avoiding hits. And a mere 3k tick is not going to help sustain a average 30k~35k party member. Rather than making it op to top up someone, I suggest a moderate increase in the MPW % and a duration increase. 12 Seconds is way too short to HOT up a party, (I'm pretty sure this gets annoying in your rotation) priests should be specialized in this aspect. Perhaps we could talk scaling the Percentage based on the duration of the skill? Maybe it could use a level increase instead to determine that?  

 

Simply put, priests need's a better (HOT) heal to maintain their party and manage threat control. I don't think its a good idea to  have to highness heal all of your dps all the time. Unless you intend to tank the adds that is.  

I agree with asabayou, reno is okay as it is. A fully-geared priest (osi or himmel, not necessarily +20) can sustain a normal 5-man party, unless the priest takes the mobs then gg :v I've grinded in DW Lower with osi gears, not refined, but still can handle the party. Just using regulated heals to avoid gaining much threat.


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#31 SolM77186

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:58 AM

At the moment, the players who're making complains only about priests for me are just "hypocrits", every class are OP (over power) priests are of course but every class EXCEPTED "WIZARD" can't complains about each others, only wizards could be mad about what happen.


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#32 Cleftobismal

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:34 AM

At the moment, the players who're making complains only about priests for me are just "hypocrits", every class are OP (over power) priests are of course but every class EXCEPTED "WIZARD" can't complains about each others, only wizards could be mad about what happen.

 

Your half right. 

 

 

 

 

Renevatio:

 

We'll just wait until actual raiding content comes, then yall can decide if renevatio is a optimal skill to use.


Edited by Cleftobismal, 22 July 2014 - 10:34 AM.

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#33 charissard

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:30 PM

Renevatio:

 

We'll just wait until actual raiding content comes, then yall can decide if renevatio is a optimal skill to use.

 

Yeah that's why we have off-support players like sorc/SMs. Priests are not designed to carry a whole 10-man raid :v (or yeah they can when you have many of 'em)


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#34 Cleftobismal

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:19 PM

Yeah that's why we have off-support players like sorc/SMs. Priests are not designed to carry a whole 10-man raid :v (or yeah they can when you have many of 'em)

 

SM's are debatable in what their really supposed to do.  Sorcerers pre-aov were also main healers. (Though from what iv'e seen, lots had their doubts like priests being able to DPS)  Ideally in a raid, you would have one healer assigned to the tank and the rest to the party members. (If split tanking, each tank has their own healer) Both would take care of the party unless you had a class that can place up decent Healing while dpsing. (In which, not a lot of mmo's has) However, I know one thing every mmo has in common. Players that want a fast DPS party. Unless there is going to be a raid (Which i highly doubt) that will require 2 Main healers and a class like SM, I doubt the majority would take a second rated DPS'ing class. 

 

 

Right now I'm aware they can main heal, (Which seems to be the in-balance of the class) but for now i'm treating them as what players want to view them as. 


Edited by Cleftobismal, 22 July 2014 - 06:49 PM.

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#35 charissard

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:44 AM

 Unless there is going to be a raid (Which i highly doubt) that will require 2 Main healers and a class like SM, I doubt the majority would take a second rated DPS'ing class. 

 

 

Right now I'm aware they can main heal, (Which seems to be the in-balance of the class) but for now i'm treating them as what players want to view them as. 

Yeah, but priests are pretty good dps nowadays, having OP dots (well, some maybe) :v I hope the devs will continue the balancing of classes before adding the raid content of the game :< That should be their priority before anything else :v


Edited by charissard, 23 July 2014 - 12:44 AM.

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#36 Cleftobismal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:53 AM

Yeah, but priests are pretty good dps nowadays, having OP dots (well, some maybe) :v I hope the devs will continue the balancing of classes before adding the raid content of the game :< That should be their priority before anything else :v

 

 

Not sure what that has to do with adding a full fledged DPS over the soul makers party slot. 


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#37 Contact Support 001

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:27 AM

The point of balancing is to make sure people of all levels and gears are able to play the game without needing to be geared to the extent of +20. Unless you actually wish for their to be content for +20, High honed, P2W/Rich/Veterans Users (In which, the majority would disagree), that doesn't seem to be the best example in determining what's really op and not. 

 

 

Let me clarify a few things.  (And ill just be throwing numbers here with the curve of this game)

 

 

 

What is OP:

 

 

(I'm going to use priest here since everyone is familiar with the class)

 

 

Credo:

 

A & C have maxed the mentioned skill.

 

 

A has the LvL 45 set.

 

 

C has the LvL 70 Set.

 

 

Neither of them have any special enhancements such as elements, hones, seeds, refinement (+1~20) or even buffs. (Chef/Alch/Supportive Skill/Etc) 

 

 

 

 

A uses Credo on the dummy in arena. 

 

 

 

Credo strikes 13,000 per two seconds.

 

 

C also uses credo on a dummy.

 

 

Credo strikes 67,000 per Tic.

 

 

Both of these are not critical strikes.

 

 

 

What is wrong with this picture? The skill itself is over bearing in magic damage.

 

 

 

 

 

What is not op:

 

 

"A" strike's the dummy with Credo resulting 1,315 damage.

 

 

C strike's the dummy with Credo resulting 6,520 damage.

 

 

 

While C hulks a bunch of power with Credo only, "A" deals an acceptable (By the RO2 communities plea) ammount of damage. 

 

Where is the in-balance in this? The gear itself. 

 

 

Now let's see what happens when we nerf Credo [40% Deficiency] with this situation ^ present:

 

 

 

"A" strikes the dummy with Credo resulting  789 damage.

 

 

C strikes the dummy with Credo resulting  3912 damage.

 

 

 

 

 

A is now going to hopelessly cry his class is under powered and will persist in a buff.  While C is agreeing with the end game gear he has, its balanced.

 

 

 

Now if +20 refinement was added into the problem. Both cases would be considered OP. (Post Nerf)

 

The problem is, not everyone is blessed enough to get full blown +20 gears. And a game shouldn't be shifted on refinement to the point where you can be soloing bosses as a Soul Maker. (The squishiest class in the game from what I've looked into)   Or diving into fields where your class shouldn't be treading in heavily.

 

 

Example:

 

 

 Mario: "Hey! Can I Join your Chaos party?"

 

XxSmexyStephxX: "Maybe! Whats your class?"

 

Mario: "Priest"

 

 

XxSmexyStephxX: "Can you DPS?"

 

 

Mario: "Yes! Not only do I have the damage potential to clear rooms by myself, I can also be your main and only healer!"

 

XxSmexyStephxX: "Okay your in!"

 

 

 

 

A knight can fit in this position to. ^ A class men't to control hate and damage can also dive out big numbers, [Really Well!] rivaling:  Wizard/Assasin/Rogue.  Now there are such thing as battle priests and knights in mmo's (Usually named Renegades) who just stick to pure dpsing.  However, that would mean their support/tank potential falls off on the deep end.   No way should a mmo introduce a mechanic to let a Tank take all the bosses in the game while also DPS'ing like a super saiyen, and allowing an main healing class dish out heal bombs to keep a party up while reaping the field like a nuclear warhead in three dimensions. D;

 

 

 

 

Or if you wanna hear the sad truth. (Again I'm using this class since everyone seems to be familiar with it)

 

 

 

LukaIsHawt: "Hey need someone to tank those 25 mobs for you in osiris?"

 

 

SugarMama: "Great! What's your class?"

 

 

LukaIsHawt: "Priest"

 

 

SugarMama: "Okay let me tell party leader to send invite. =)"

 

 

30xbfd1.jpg

 

 

 

 

Please guy's, after reading this. Do any of you still think it's a good idea to be messing with the Monks, Soulmakers, Priests, Sorcerer, Wizards, Rogues, Assasin, Knight, Warriors, Beastmaster,  Crecentia and Rangers skill's right now? Do you guys honestly believe the way the equipment's are balanced now it's not the majority of the problem? Is this really not the bigger picture? Don't you guys wish to see one of your fun (If not favorite) game be much more enjoyable and have no class balance issues at all?  Why do we need to cut the buds, instead of the roots of the problem? I cant fathom a community disregarding it's weaker/under-geared/unprivileged players. Why do they have to go through thousands of hell while we can live the easy life? It shouldn't be that way, even to work/build for it. 

 

 

This is just my overall proposal for Every Ragnarok Online 2 Advent of Valkyrie Classes. Not just Priests and Sorcerers. 

I don't have time to read it, you should put it more shorter.

 

"The point of balancing is to make sure people of all levels and gears are able to play the game without needing to be geared to the extent of +20."

 

all levels? really? from level 1 to ml 19 you need a +20 gears? then from ML21 to ML29 you need a +20 gears? 

 

especially now, since that ML30 already implemented,  it never needed to have that +20 ML20 gears.

 

My point is, you're asking for balance ignoring the fact that all you need to become OP is to have that +20 gears.

 

lets talk about experience, I can 1shot a priest without any + on his armor and he cant kill me like 5 sec only if he dont have that +20weapon and a +20 hand book with -_- +20 gears(+60-75% defense).  (we both using ML1 gears during pvp) 

 

+20 gears has a huge impact why most priest are very deadly and hard to kill, + there DOT cant be cancelled and I think it also ignores the defense.

 

I dont have any problem pvp vs priest during colo as well.

 

if you really want to see what is OP, please dont try it to a scarecrow, they don't have defense and OP combo attack like other class have.

 

meet me in woe or duel with me, i'll show you what +20 gears can do over your undergears. i'm not a priest but tell me if im OP.

 

I cant see your point if you don't like the idea of a +20 gears or want to ignore it during class balance. but for me it should be remove coz this thing why all class are imbalanced. 


Edited by Contact Support 001, 23 July 2014 - 06:36 AM.

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#38 Cleftobismal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:48 AM

I don't have time to read it, you should put it more shorter.

 

"The point of balancing is to make sure people of all levels and gears are able to play the game without needing to be geared to the extent of +20."

 

 

 

 

I gotta ask, is English your first language? /o/


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#39 Contact Support 001

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:05 PM

I gotta ask, is English your first language? /o/

"The point of balancing is to make sure people of all levels and gears are able to play the game without needing to be geared to the extent of +20."

 

no one force you to gear-up refined gears but of course, you're one of the loser of this game if you're planning to compete with them. -_- dont be stupid like you know how to balance.

 

 

 

the problem of priest are not their offensive DOT(this very helpful to them during solo grinding or farming), the OP healing skill is the problem, most priest invest more points in PDS tree than support tree coz they are overconfident to be able to heal like 50-100k/cast.

 

coluceo heal - this skill should ONLY be able to heal any party member to full HP/cast, not the HH or heal skill

 

if all priest healing skill will be nerfed, then the old mind setting will be back and they will be force to invest more points in healing skill than dps.

 

30-35k hp are the average Hp for most ML30 class.(not sure)

 

when this skills maxed

 

heal: should do 5k-10k only

renovatio: 3k HOT

Highness heal:8k-16k

coluceo heal: 100% HP restore/cast

sanctuary: 5k/tick

 

this are all made up, my point is put more stress on their healing skill so they will be force to become either pure DPS or full support but not BOTH 


Edited by Contact Support 001, 23 July 2014 - 02:41 PM.

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#40 Cleftobismal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:09 PM

 

 

no one force you to gear-up refined gears but of course, you're one of the loser of this game if you're planning to compete with them. -_- dont be stupid like you know how to balance.

 

 

 

I haven't said anything about needing +20 gears for all levels. I'm not sure how you misinterpreted my statement, I don't wanna know, and frankly, I shouldn't care.  If you wish to continue to act ugly like your avatar picture, I will no longer wish to have a discussion with you, especially after you've claimed.

I don't have time to read it, you should put it more shorter.

 

 

\o\ This ^ is already a red flag for me to stop debating with you. I suggest you keep your choice of words nice and calm unless you want me to show you something nastier than you. /o/


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#41 Contact Support 001

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:24 PM

I haven't said anything about needing +20 gears for all levels. I'm not sure how you misinterpreted my statement, I don't wanna know, and frankly, I shouldn't care.  If you wish to continue to act ugly like your avatar picture, I will no longer wish to have a discussion with you, especially after you've claimed.

 

\o\ This ^ is already a red flag for me to stop debating with you. I suggest you keep your choice of words nice and calm unless you want me to show you something nastier than you. /o/

 

If you don't get my point, +20 gears has a huge impact why priest are OP it should be include during balance, not all priest are OP if you don't get my point. it needs more IQ than your englishNVPl810.jpg


Edited by Contact Support 001, 23 July 2014 - 03:39 PM.

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#42 Cleftobismal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:52 PM

Smexy Snip

 

 

\o\ Okay, you want priest to have a +20 Requirement to play the class. I and I'm sure as hell many other don't. I'm not going to agree with you. /o/

 

And if you really mean you don't then were on the same page. I'm not sure where I lost you, and I just no longer have the interest to find out anymore. /o/


Edited by Cleftobismal, 23 July 2014 - 03:55 PM.

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#43 Contact Support 001

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:05 PM

\o\ Okay, you want priest to have a +20 Requirement to play the class. I and I'm sure as hell many other don't. I'm not going to agree with you. /o/

 

And if you really mean you don't then were on the same page. I'm not sure where I lost you, and I just no longer have the interest to find out anymore. /o/

as i said no one force you to have that +20 gears and its OK as well in pve but its a different story in PVP.

 

my other point is, i think the only thing need attention here is the max level balance(ML30 only) rather than from level 1 to ML30. its pointless to rebalance it, unless you're planning to stay in that low level forever? 


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#44 Cleftobismal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:17 PM

as i said no one force you to have that +20 gears and its OK as well in pve but its a different story in PVP.

 

my other point is, i think the only thing need attention here is the max level balance(ML30 only) rather than from level 1 to ML30. its pointless to rebalance it, unless you're planning to stay in that low level forever? 

 

 

As I said I'm done arguing with you, this seem's to be a language barrier case.  Goodbye. /o/


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#45 Greven79

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:36 PM

Now that most healings buffed up, but there is main issue that break the game which is DPS skills. If DPS nerfed, people can still use healings [...] but if heals nerfed people will even choose more DPS skills and only pick 1 kind of heal then done, even maybe I prefer to not become healer anymore. Remember that despite SM and Sorc also healer, Priest should be main heal in concept for most RPG..

 

IMO, there are two false assumpions:

 

1. Heals have become better

Nearly ALL the healing skills are still the same. That means that the heal multipliers haven't changed, except for the general x10 change that was applied to all skills of all classes. The damage and defense formula is the cause of all evil.

 

Whereas tank classes didn't have much more than 50% defense rate before AoV, they can have up to 90% now.

  • 75% means that you take half the damage as with 50%
  • 87.5% means half the damage as with 75%

To compensate Gravity did change the damage formula and increased the damage (over-)accordingly.

 

But when the damage is increased, heals are as well. Since they ignore armor and hit chances (DoTs as well), they are totally broken right now. Nerfing heals only could be a way to take the higher defense rates into account.

 

2. Nerving heals leads to more DPS

Before AoV was released, the raid members had to choose between adding more DPS classes (rangers) or to add more support characters (priests). If your statement would be true, full-support priests would have had a hard time finding a raid to join, but it was the contrary.

 

So if you would just nerf the heals (and healing pets as well) now, the usual parties would adapt and add more healers to compensate the loss, rather accepting a slower leveling process than to accept a higher death ratio. Sure, some priests might still choose the DPS tree, but parties and raids would definitely be in need for healers.

 

Personal note:

Let's face the truth: I've given an example of how much I would 'nerf' the heals in my previous reply. Healing 25k with a boosted Highness Heal still recovers 70~80% of your HPs... and this can be done every 7sec. So it would be beyond my comprehension, if anyone thinks that this would be an unfair treatment.

 

I've mentioned this several times now, that I totally agree that the damage has to be nerfed as well. But - and that's a large BUT - as long as the defense rates stay the way they're now, heals needs to be nerfed by even a higher ratio than the damage, simply to compensate the fact that they ignore the defense.


Edited by Greven79, 24 July 2014 - 10:44 PM.

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#46 Asaba

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:55 PM

Personally, I think Priest are fine just the way it is, if heals are nerfed, I don't even know what I'm suppose to do in dungeons and raids since I am suppose to be a healer? 

If my heal is not powerful enough, the monster that I aggro-ed while doing HH heal will kill me in seconds ( especially if I don't have any tanker that can take aggro off me)

I already felt a bit inadequate since Sm cure is doing much more heals then my heal ^^ ( I'm grateful though, their cure do save me too some time.)

 

At the same time, I will definitely be troubled too if my Dot is nerfed, Its not like every support priest have a constant tanker and perfect party to go with every time we wanna lvl. Sometimes I do want to hunt solo for things, so the dots are great help; especially if we wanna help our guild member to lvl, I'm actually grateful to be able to do some damage.

 

As a supporting role, without being able to do repetitive Aspersio and Judex, I don't have the chance to run from a 1 hit crit from every other class in Woe

 

Like priest, many other class are just as op, kinda balance things out if I think about it. 

 

Anyway this is just a personal thought of a support priest. :p_laugh:


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#47 charissard

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:49 AM

Personally, I think Priest are fine just the way it is, if heals are nerfed, I don't even know what I'm suppose to do in dungeons and raids since I am suppose to be a healer? 

If my heal is not powerful enough, the monster that I aggro-ed while doing HH heal will kill me in seconds ( especially if I don't have any tanker that can take aggro off me)

I already felt a bit inadequate since Sm cure is doing much more heals then my heal ^^ ( I'm grateful though, their cure do save me too some time.)

 

At the same time, I will definitely be troubled too if my Dot is nerfed, Its not like every support priest have a constant tanker and perfect party to go with every time we wanna lvl. Sometimes I do want to hunt solo for things, so the dots are great help; especially if we wanna help our guild member to lvl, I'm actually grateful to be able to do some damage.

 

As a supporting role, without being able to do repetitive Aspersio and Judex, I don't have the chance to run from a 1 hit crit from every other class in Woe

 

Like priest, many other class are just as op, kinda balance things out if I think about it. 

 

Anyway this is just a personal thought of a support priest. :p_laugh:

 

Having the same thought, support priest here :) But I disagree with the DoT part. DPS priests' DoTs can damage as much as 10k+ and I think that's too much >.>


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#48 Greven79

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:36 AM

Personally, I think Priest are fine just the way it is, if heals are nerfed, I don't even know what I'm suppose to do in dungeons and raids since I am suppose to be a healer?

 

So full heal every second, because otherwise you have nothing to do in raids, well argued!

 

If my heal is not powerful enough, the monster that I aggro-ed while doing HH heal will kill me in seconds ( especially if I don't have any tanker that can take aggro off me)

 

 

Heal amount = threat.

Less heal = less threat = no worries that threat of tank isn't enough

 

I already felt a bit inadequate since Sm cure is doing much more heals then my heal ^^ ( I'm grateful though, their cure do save me too some time.)

 

Sure, let's compare a class with a single other broken skill. That's argumentation at it's best. That the Sin needs 10 targets, screw it! That the priest has multiple heal skills, including a HoT, screw it! That the priest has a better DPS, screw it... because if I can't have a Highness Heal that crits for 120k, you're so worthless in raids.

 

 

At the same time, I will definitely be troubled too if my Dot is nerfed, Its not like every support priest have a constant tanker and perfect party to go with every time we wanna lvl.

 

No, sure. Increase them. Because unless you can one-shot every enemy, you can't be secure without a tanker or the rest of them team. Who cares that a Oratio+Credo already kills any farming enemy in 6sec or less isn't good enough!. The DoT should rather tick every 0.5sec instead... just to make sure.

 

So let's nerf everyone except the priest. He can't mob 20+ enemies while soloing and his 120k crit. HH makes him die due to aggro... what a shame.


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#49 PandeeChio

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:03 AM



No, sure. Increase them. Because unless you can one-shot every enemy, you can't be secure without a tanker or the rest of them team. Who cares that a Oratio+Credo already kills any farming enemy in 6sec or less isn't good enough!. The DoT should rather tick every 0.5sec instead... just to make sure.

So let's nerf everyone except the priest. He can't mob 20+ enemies while soloing and his 120k crit. HH makes him die due to aggro... what a shame.


Hey! A priest cant One Shot Q_Q

We want to One DoT them!... oh wait a sec... We want to One DoT Tick them!!


Nontroll stuff

1) You arent supposed to solo 5+ monsters (equal to your level) with having full hp all time

2) You arent supposed to full heal with 2 heal spell use / 1 Critical heal

3) You arent supposed to make tanks useless (Overthreating with a single heal x59990%)

4) You arent supposed to oneshot/oneDoT/OneDoT tick players to death (IMO if you do your best skill combination combo with a finisher/crit finisher it should deal HEAVILY injuring dmg but not Oneshot. Same to DoTs > a Single DoT isnt supposed to kill after all ticks and neither it isnt supposed to kill with especially 3DoTs! Scaling ftw...altho these problems are on every class so not like it matters Q_Q )

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#50 Exvee

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:25 AM

IMO, there are two false assumpions:

 

1. Heals have become better

Nearly ALL the healing skills are still the same. That means that the heal multipliers haven't changed, except for the general x10 change that was applied to all skills of all classes. The damage and defense formula is the cause of all evil.

 

Whereas tank classes didn't have much more than 50% defense rate before AoV, they can have up to 90% now.

  • 75% means that you take half the damage as with 50%
  • 87.5% means half the damage as with 75%

To compensate Gravity did change the damage formula and increased the damage (over-)accordingly.

 

But when the damage is increased, heals are as well. Since they ignore armor and hit chances (DoTs as well), they are totally broken right now. Nerfing heals only could be a way to take the higher defense rates into account.

 

2. Nerving heals leads to more DPS

Before AoV was released, the raid members had to choose between adding more DPS classes (rangers) or to add more support characters (priests). If your statement would be true, full-support priests would have had a hard time finding a raid to join, but it was the contrary.

 

So if you would just nerf the heals (and healing pets as well) now, the usual parties would adapt and add more healers to compensate the loss, rather accepting a slower leveling process than to accept a higher death ratio. Sure, some priests might still choose the DPS tree, but parties and raids would definitely be in need for healers.

 

Personal note:

Let's face the truth: I've given an example of how much I would 'nerf' the heals in my previous reply. Healing 25k with a boosted Highness Heal still recovers 70~80% of your HPs... and this can be done every 7sec. So it would be beyond my comprehension, if anyone thinks that this would be an unfair treatment.

 

I've mentioned this several times now, that I totally agree that the damage has to be nerfed as well. But - and that's a large BUT - as long as the defense rates stay the way they're now, heals needs to be nerfed by even a higher ratio than the damage, simply to compensate the fact that they ignore the defense.

 

I already said the main core of OP healings come from Meditation and Aspersio being spammable, I already test healing without spamming Aspersio and it's normal I mean not 1x cast heal = full unless pure crit (when crit it's like 6x Heal value which is so wrong, +Aspersio = 10x Heal value)... I give the fast summary, until then it's gonna be endless and pointless to arguing each other...

 

I dunno if I should call that assumptions, I personally thought that because it already happens similarly in RO1 and Gravity revert back the heal nerfs that day... Well, I'm not saying it will be "obvious", but it's just past experience "OK I play many games before RO2 and that's what happened mostly when Healing class/skills nerfed in updates"...


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