193 replies to this topic

[flukeSG2]

This is basically become same as RO1... Rather than complaining the bots/macros the question should be why players using bot/macros? It's something that both RO developer games never realized until now. The challenge is how the developer can make the games not dependant by bots or encourage you to actually playing not macroing... RO2 actually have some of features of "play this manually" pre-AoV but we know all of them are now useless unless you're collector (Raids, Colo, Unions, RHD)...

 

It's really clear what the problem since the RO1 classic server problem last year and guess what, the developers even just going further and ruins all games I love...

 

I'm glad a few of us understand this.  Others seem content on blaming the players using macro's for ruining the game, when it's the game content that has brought about the macro users.

[samsam2610]

From when playing a game means doing math? Cmon, 2 wrongs don't make a right, you all know that?

[4458130508113924833]

Oh My God, this thread, this game, holy crap. xD

[Baddiez]

Why is it assumed than anyone with a decent amount of assets is a bot or macrod lol.

[Blondheart]

I have been playing the game for months and it only recently hit me how many people are actually using macro.  I know naive right?  I was in a grind party about a month ago, and the first thing that struck me was no one was talking.  The second thing that struck me was the perfectly uniform repeated actions of the players.  I realized I was the only one who was actually there clicking the button.  The hardest part of coming to this realization was the psychological impact it had.  But I will get to that in a moment. 

 

The human hand simply cannot replicate the actions with the same uniform precision and speed a script can.  Yes I understand why people are doing it.  Grinding blows.  Period.  I would love more ML quests.  But I have gained every point I have ever gotten grinding with my hand despite the grueling nature of it, which is why I am no where near ML30 yet.  Just sitting there staring at the screen and clicking one button is tiring and you can only do it so long without a break, where as a script can just keep going for hours on end.

 

Now for the psychological aspect; I have heard people say I got 1000 coins in an hour, while I am working my ass off killing the same exact thing and looking at my 37 coins.  My first thought was what am I doing wrong?  Also you see certain players who get to the highest level quickly and get the new gears and have enough zeny to buy the fabulous costumes without spending real money...and you think to yourself wow they must be truly amazing players, I am going to aspire to be like that.  But then you find out some of them aren't really.  Lets face it MMO's have a certain peer player aspect to them.  So when you find this out, it's like being a little kid finding out that the santa at the mall doesn't live at the north pole.  That the thing you were aspiring to cannot be achieved with out mechanical aid.  And it's demoralizing to realize you will never get as far ahead by doing it yourself as you can with the lessened effort of a script.

 

 

I agree with whoever said that if you aren't pushing that button...even if it's just one button you aren't really playing the game.  You can be sitting there at your computer watching it the entire time, but it's just not the same thing as doing that button pushing yourself because you are removing the human element.  I don't know how to macro, but even if I did I wouldn't do it.  For some players it's a moral issue on top of all the other issues, which I believe is where a lot of the outrage comes from.  If this didn't matter to people or using a macro script didn't make a difference when it comes to getting ahead in the game, the people not doing it wouldn't get upset and the people who do it wouldn't bother.

 

Edited by Blondheart, 30 June 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[ChocoVivi]

LMAO this thread    So funny to see people defending the use of macro while hackshield is blocking macro program. Wouldn't this make it obvious enough that RO2 does not allow macro? Don't tell me you've never seen ppl complaining how they get "hackshield error: macro activities detected blahblahblah" system msg because of their fancy gaming mouse 

This is not a moral or opinion issue; this game just never allows macro since day 1 (tho ppl somehow still manage to use it ;__; )

[samsam2610]

Try Jitbit 

[Tonitrua]

Now for the psychological aspect; I have heard people say I got 1000 coins in an hour, while I am working my ass off killing the same exact thing and looking at my 37 coins.  My first thought was what am I doing wrong?

 

Are you trying to say that the only reason you got that much less coins is because you weren't using a macro? Because that's absolute nonsense. Unless you're sitting idle for 30 seconds between your skills, the rate of farming is virtually identical with or without a macro. You're just farming the wrong things, or using less-than-ideal tactics, this has nothing to do with macros.

[samsam2610]

Are you trying to say that the only reason you got that much less coins is because you weren't using a macro? Because that's absolute nonsense. Unless you're sitting idle for 30 seconds between your skills, the rate of farming is virtually identical with or without a macro. You're just farming the wrong things, or using less-than-ideal tactics, this has nothing to do with macros.

How about people with 2,3,4,5 or more computers? 1 person vs 1 macro bot may not show the difference. But 1 person vs 10 macro bots.... Unless you're a machine xD

[Zanbee]

Hello everyone, 

 

Here is the Knowledge base article: https://support.warp...suspicious.aspx. We are closely monitoring your responses and opinions, so please understand that anything written in this article is subject to change.

[Tonitrua]

1 person vs 1 macro bot may not show the difference. But 1 person vs 10 macro bots.... Unless you're a machine xD

 

That may be so, but isn't this more an issue of multi clienting/bot farming than an issue of one person sitting in front of one client with a macro? It seemed to me the key argument Blondhart was making is that even if one person is playing one client but not pushing the button themselves then it's immoral or illegitimate and also confers a huge advantage in farming/leveling - which it doesn't. Let's not confuse one issue with another.

 

 

Hello everyone, 

 

Here is the Knowledge base article: https://support.warp...suspicious.aspx. We are closely monitoring your responses and opinions, so please understand that anything written in this article is subject to change.

 

The knowledge base article seems to directly contradict itself:

 

 

Using Third Party Programs is a serious break of the Terms of Use and players found to be using Third Party Programs such as this are subject to suspension from the game.

 

Macros can be bound to specific keys on special kinds of mouse or keyboards, particularly gaming mice, controllers and keyboards, and will allow for a chain of actions to occur by hitting a single button. We do at this time allow for the use of macros, as long as the player is actually present when these macros are being used

 

No keyboard or mouse will do these behaviors on their own without the use of a third party program, in the example given ('special kinds of mouse or keyboards') that third party program is simply a macro software bundled with the hardware's driver, installed along with it, or more rarely - running on a micro controller within the hardware itself and is no different than any other third party macro software.

 

I also want to add this response I was given in a recent ticket asking for clarification about the specifics of the macro rule, which also seems to be in conflict with both of the above quotes from the new knowledgebase article.

 

Quote from my question:

 

Is there any limitation to the complexity of the macros we are allowed to use, provided we are able to respond to any GM inquiry as you said? Can macros include OCR functionality or dynamic responses to game events? (for example: if my HP gets low, can my macro respond by using a potion without my input)

 

Ticket response:

 

Complex macros are at this time considered okay, as long as they do not bypass anything you can normally accomplish in the game, and as long as you are always present when using them and can reply to any GM in the game who may approach you.

 

I think this knowledgebase has created more questions than it has answered, we have multiple official responses from staff and yet they don't seem to be at all congruent with each other.

Edited by Tonitrua, 30 June 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[ChocoVivi]

Try Jitbit 

 

tbh I don't care which macro programs "work" (I know a lot of them can bypass hackshield), but the thing is, this game never intend to allow macro use in the first place and I have no idea why WP team is making it "ok" to use macro all of a sudden while the game itself bans most macro ;__;

 

and hi emerald

[Vaiki]

rets see macro users level faster den non macro users hue

[Blondheart]

Are you trying to say that the only reason you got that much less coins is because you weren't using a macro? Because that's absolute nonsense. Unless you're sitting idle for 30 seconds between your skills, the rate of farming is virtually identical with or without a macro. You're just farming the wrong things, or using less-than-ideal tactics, this has nothing to do with macros.

So do you think the average user not using anything other than their finger can farm 1000 event items in an hour?  Because if you can, I would like to watch and see how you do it so I can learn this technique.

[Baddiez]

So do you think the average user not using anything other than their finger can farm 1000 event items in an hour?  Because if you can, I would like to watch and see how you do it so I can learn this technique.

 

Scarecrows were the only place that I saw people getting around that number per hour. Basically you either need someone who you can split the item with or more than one computer. You multishot (you are a ranger right?) making sure you hit all the scarecrows in one line, and the other person spams the loot button. If you have 3 computers one character can just sit down beside you (I've tested and realized the more characters I had in a pt the higher my drop rate was). This usually adds around 250-500 more letters per hour than just having 1 person looting and one person doing AoE. If you are alone and have 2 comps you can just spam multishot on one and the loot button on the other in sync( in sync because it seems easier for me that way than spamming multi shot every time i loot 2-4 times). It isn't that hard

Edited by Baddiez, 30 June 2014 - 12:06 PM.

[Hikarii18]

I feel like the rules about macro-ing is changing bit by bit...I wonder why..hmmm

 

lolwhoamikidding.

[VuoriDevine]

This is really stupid lol....
ok guys so now we can all macro since the gms dont give a -_- about bots i mean, macroers, lets all macro in the next event and dont give a
Shall we?!

Edited by VuoriDevine, 30 June 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[kimsera]

They won't give a -_- unless they lose revenue, duh.

[samsam2610]

tbh I don't care which macro programs "work" (I know a lot of them can bypass hackshield), but the thing is, this game never intend to allow macro use in the first place and I have no idea why WP team is making it "ok" to use macro all of a sudden while the game itself bans most macro ;__;

 

and hi emerald

*-* hello Vivi   

[Iantsu]

Thanks Zanbee and whoever is responsible for editing that article! It actually clears a few things up. 

 

As stated in the Terms of Use, Third Party Programs are not allowed in Ragnarok Online 2. Third Party Programs are programs downloaded to a players computer that would control your character without the need for you to be present, such as automatically killing mobs and selling items, or farming specific nodes. Using Third Party Programs is a serious break of the Terms of Use and players found to be using Third Party Programs such as this are subject to suspension from the game. 

 

This part seems pretty clear to me.  What I'm hearing from this is that it doesn't matter if you are in front of your computer or not. If it will ALLOW you to leave the computer and still perform an action in game, it is not allowed.

 

 

THE PART ABOUT KEY BINDING MACRO (DIFFERENT KIND OF MACRO) IS SEPARATE. Thank you for this. Now people can't bunch the two together and call Third Party Program okay.

 

Macros can be bound to specific keys on special kinds of mouse or keyboards, particularly gaming mice, controllers and keyboards, and will allow for a chain of actions to occur by hitting a single button. We do at this time allow for the use of macros, as long as the player is actually present when these macros are being used, and can pass any third party program test performed by a GM. Players must be present at their computer when any actions are being performed by their characters, particularly with regards to (but in no way limited to) obtaining items, adding buffs to other players, or attacking mobs. Automated responses are not considered viable responses to any GM inquiries. Any time a GM contacts you in game and performs a test of this kind, you are required to respond. Refraining from responding to any question asked, or replying with an automated response, is regarded as failing third party program testing and will result in being suspended from Ragnarok Online 2. 

Also, some macros may trigger Hackshield and will cause you to be removed from the game. Any macro that causes this to happen should be disabled in order for you to be able to play again.

 

What I'm getting from this is that KEY BINDING and making one click perform multiple actions are okay. A hardware that will perform a sequence of moves with one click is allowed as long as you are present. For me, this is alright. The person is still, at the very least, doing something by actually triggering actions with one's hands.. or feet.. or mouth.

 

 

When reporting suspicious or ill mannered behavior, all videos and screenshots are taken into consideration for reviewing an account, however, all official bans are a result of GM third party program testing and not on evidence provided by players in the game. The reason for this is due to the set of tests that only a GM can employ, as well as the fact that players are required to respond to GM's but are not so required to reply or respond to other players in the game. 

 

What I'm getting from this is that no matter what evidence I provide, a person cannot be punished unless caught in the act of using third party programs by a GM. A GM must personally visit the player and perform "the set of tests that only a GM can employ". It makes sense since people can block each other in game, but the loopholes...

 

My concern is:

 

What is the response time on those bot report tickets?

 By the time the ticket is seen and a GM is notified, the player botting could have already stopped for the night.

[Quinntto]

This is really stupid lol....
ok guys so now we can all macro since the gms dont give a  about bots i mean, macroers, lets all macro in the next event and dont give a
Shall we?!

 

 

 

Hahaha! macRO2 should be the official name for now on since it is acceptable if I don't leave my computer.

 

" We do at this time allow for the use of macros, as long as the player is actually present when these macros are being used" - Policy on Macro, 2nd and 3rd lines.

 

Well, PandeeChio pretty much sums it up:

 

They [LEGIT HARD WORKING PLAYERS] play nonmacro game while macros play Ro2.

 

[Iantsu]

Quinn, you are taking that line out of context. Re-read the whole section again. A physical action is still required. The "human element" is still there.

 

 

 

Macros can be bound to specific keys on special kinds of mouse or keyboards, particularly gaming mice, controllers and keyboards, and will allow for a chain of actions to occur by hitting a single button. We do at this time allow for the use of macros, as long as the player is actually present when these macros are being used, and can pass any third party program test performed by a GM.

 

[8ReN8]

ppl are so naïve about bots and macros they been used around since the dawn of this game... anyone decent enough brain knows that.

 

in august when the market was still 1:3 bots/marcos fueled the economy  keeping the price that low. so no 1 needed to farm anything and could buy it from the ah.

in august the program went out of business, and anyone who was  smart bought the ygg and other items at that low price and jacked the other prices up. bot been around forever.

 

hackshield its self is a joke.

 

hackshield only works off the processor, if it hits a certain peak n the processor and its consider a macro program even if your not using one.

 

only ppl bypassing it is ppl who have higher end cpu. for ex quad core, which hackshield only looks at the 1 processor instead of all 4 processors it will never get detected becuz the quad never gets to its peak.

 

thus the issue with hackshield, upgrade it and all lower end cpu gets the shaft.

 

my honest opinion of it..

if your using it idc -.- its better than seeing ur butt sitting in pron/alberta/morroc doing nothing but afking or not helpin anyone -.-

 

 

[micchikyun]

^dood know's his stuff *wink wink*

 

[Hikarii18]

Well of course majority of people knew about the existence of macros and bots since the dawn of this game or in any game to be exact but isn't that the reason why rules such as NOT allowing the use of any third party programs in Ro2 exist in the first place AND isn't that also one of the reasons why GM's like Zanbee and Njoror exist to prevent players from using third party programs? But what's the point of making such rules if you're just gonna keep changing it? Why all of a sudden ( well not really of all a sudden, kind of) change the "3rd party programs are not allowed" rule to " Oh if you're in your computer its okay to use macros but if you're not its not okay" to save the dying game from dying or in order for people to keep "playing" the game?Yea you use 3rd party programs but just because you're on you're computer doesn't really mean you're playing the game; That's like the same as saying "Just because I'm smiling, doesn't mean I'm happy". (oooohhh)

Next thing we know "cheating" is an okay thing to do but really who am I kidding, its been "okay" since who knows how long. LOL 

 

On serious note tho, this is one of the reasons why people keep doing shaddy and dodgy as sh*t in game because they can just get a way with it and this is also one of the reasons why good,old, pre historic ro2 players quit the game. They.get.fed.up. Like srsly, Ro2 GM's are so scared to ban players who breaks every possible rules in this game. You report someone with enough evidence (SS, videos etc), they ban the person and then a week, heck a day after you see that person walking around prontera, alberta, morroc like nothing happen. (PS. I'm not attacking any players. I'm saying this base on what has been happening since the start of this game)

 

 

Ps ps. I'd rather see someone's butt (dat ass) sitting in Prontera, Alberta or Morroc rather than seeing someone play illegitimately. 

Edited by Hikarii18, 01 July 2014 - 02:36 AM.