154 replies to this topic

[SlowBob]

Okay , lets say you already have a glorious set (15) or non refined. Now, you gonna give up your old glorious set for a 30% discount of the new gear. So if the price of the new released gear will be 10k honnor for you its will cost 7k.
So basically you are going to retool your old gear to the new gear.

The refund is scaled a bit high, other than that +1

[LexLoyalty]

The refund is scaled a bit high, other than that +1

 

Thank you , yeah the scaling was only for demonstration purposes only

[ChampPower]

you live in your own bubble , not feeling like wasting any energy arguing with close minded people.
Many many successful games work by this scheme and mister decided it wont work.. lol.

Am I living in my own bubble? Maybe I am, but at least I do not selfishly looking for the cheat button for my own advantage. I maybe living in a bubble, but my bubble is a lot bigger than what you think. I maybe living in the bubble, but who would not living in the bubble, called "Earth"? I maybe living in the bubble, but I dare venture in the unknown, while you dare not. You are the person depending on the IM cheat. Take away IM, and what do you have?

"Many successful games work by this scheme". Many people can become the billionaire, why can you not become the billionaire? Many people die everyday, why do we not die yet? Many games may work by using this scheme, but Rose is not the many game. Rose is unique, and it needs a long term solution, not a make-shift scheme.

You are correct in saying there are better solution than my ultimatum. Phish's proposal of increasing the based refine and Lisent by 5% each while reducing the percent of Vennurune by 5% look promising. But knowing the DEV Team and the people like you, I know that proposal will get reduced to the unacceptable level if we treat it as the main goal. That is why I prefer to remove all IM materials -Plutorune, Venurune, and Nepterune- from game. No IM, No cheating option, every players is equal in the playing field. Oh, right, I forgot, you cannot stand the idea of having equal playing field.

What do you know about hard work lol anyway. I bet I work harder than you maybe except in rose because I'm not in the position to play allot so obviously i'm gonna purchase IM.

What do I know about hard work? You bet you work harder than I am, except in ROSE. OK, I give the benefit of doubt. What is your definition of hard work? What is your highest achievement and failure in life? I am sure you can answer at least that much because you know about hard work and work harder than I am.

Also, you don't need to have necessarily the best gear in the game today to be able to compete in rose. Boosters and Aruas create the biggest inbalance between the poor and the rich. I witnessed 2 players on aruas and boosters wipe 7-8 others that were buffed. If you are so righteous and fight for the weak,poor and new players why don't you say anything about aruas or boosters or help new players instead of arguing, complaining and being overall negative.

Why do I not fight about aura and booster? Are those boosters not IM? That question answer most of your question, isn't it? The reason I do not fight about it because it is not the major problem. First, not many people has them. second, aura and booster do not last forever. Third, the defense of the users remain the same, meaning you have the opportunity to kill them. Refining, in other hand, is the core value of ROSE. A change in refine would effect every players. Why would I place my battle on the smaller issue than the core issue? Have you aver done case analysis? Would you fix the biggest problem within the case first, or would you fix the smallest problem within the case first? If we cannot fixing the core value, the refine system, why would we even bother with some boosters?

Edited by ChampPower, 03 October 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[LexLoyalty]

Mr.righteous, aint got time to argue with you. It became more of a philosophical debate that will last for couple of years.

[Feuer]

oh, I got it. But isntead of that, how about just make it so you can sell it back to the NPC for 50% of the cost hat you bought it at. It's a pretty common practice in most games, so I don't see how it wouldn't work here. 

[pdfisher]

oh, I got it. But isntead of that, how about just make it so you can sell it back to the NPC for 50% of the cost hat you bought it at. It's a pretty common practice in most games, so I don't see how it wouldn't work here. 

 

I have already suggested this numerous times. I am sure others have also.

[Feuer]

Of course they have pam, but reiterating it doesn't hurt. 

[bl0b]

I just created a 15, Blade of Saint Kruez. Yes, it took a lot of money, materials and time. But I made one, with no Item Mall influence at all. 714 refines. Only took 11 to get to 5. The rest of the 703 attempts, were done with LIsent U.

 

Yes, that means it took 7030 Lisent U + Talisman & Zulie, to get there. But obtaining that is what goes in to the effort you are saving by using the Item Mall. That is the convenience you are purchasing.

 I think I just got put off refining... This also means that new players will NEVER have a chance to join the legends.

Edited by bl0b, 05 October 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[CottonCandies]

oh, I got it. But isntead of that, how about just make it so you can sell it back to the NPC for 50% of the cost hat you bought it at. It's a pretty common practice in most games, so I don't see how it wouldn't work here. 

LOL I even suggested this one long before xD

 

[Feuer]

The matter will be solved when new tiers come out and everyone has to refine new +15 sets. That's when we'll get back to the iRose grade of refining and people who have a +15 set will be considered godly. 

[cloud1221]

I just created a 15, Blade of Saint Kruez. Yes, it took a lot of money, materials and time. But I made one, with no Item Mall influence at all. 714 refines. Only took 11 to get to 5. The rest of the 703 attempts, were done with LIsent U.

 

Yes, that means it took 7030 Lisent U + Talisman & Zulie, to get there. But obtaining that is what goes in to the effort you are saving by using the Item Mall. That is the convenience you are purchasing.

hello leo, i hope you can try refining using venurune, nepturune and plutorune to compare the results same weapon too for the sake of people who wants to purchase item mall refining protection.

[Leonis]

Spoiler

Maybe instead of just straight up increasing the refine success, the Item mall to ingame refine can be brought closer together while still having the same total success.

•   
• Increase the base success of refines by 5%.
    
• Increase the success of catalysts by 5% (for 10).
    
• Decrease success of Venurune by 5%.

Right now:
 
Going to refine 11 you have 10% base.
With Pink Powder: 20%
With Purple Powder: 25%
With Lisent Hg: 30%
With Lisent U: 35%
With Lisent U and 2 Venurunes: 55%
With Lisent U 2 Venurunes and 1 Nepturune: 60%
 
 
With the Proposed Change:
 
 
Going to refine 11 you have 15% base.
With Pink Powder: 30%
With Purple Powder: 35%
With Lisent Hg: 40%
With Lisent U: 45%
With Lisent U and 2 Venurunes: 55%
With Lisent U 2 Venurunes and 1 Nepturune: 60%
 
 
 
Same rate with full item mall, only now there is a more reasonable chance without using it, but not so high that you won't even need to use.

 

A good suggestions Phish. If what we have already put in place doesn't have the impact we're looking for, it is something we can consider in the future. One step at a time though.
 

7030 lisent U * 2,000,000z (ive seen lisent U for 3,000,000) = 14,060,000,000 * 6 (*7 if shield included=98,420,000,000z) (Glove Boot Chest Head Weapon & Backshield)=84,360,000,000z Just for refining 1 battle set!!
 
I would like to challenge u to get this amount of zulie, within 1 or 2 years, starting from the bottom. no im.

Peteer, the point was to show it is possible and what it took. There is also a bit of luck involved. It is not intended that my results are to be used as a set guideline of expectation or a true cost to create a +15. The choice to get the +15, is a personal goal to work towards. I wouldn't expect everyone to need to get it, but for the hardcore, it is a goal to aim for certainly.
 

hello leo, i hope you can try refining using venurune, nepturune and plutorune to compare the results same weapon too for the sake of people who wants to purchase item mall refining protection.

That's not a bad idea, I'll see if I can find some time to show what the difference in success would be.

[NamirBarades]

That's not a bad idea, I'll see if I can find some time to show what the difference in success would be.

There is a huge gap, like they have been saying, but I will say I would agree with calling it "pay for convience." The refine stuff is, at least, all available through players selling im. The problem is how out of control the economy is on top of everything else. It makes it difficult for an unestablished player to accomplish things and the rate the refine is makes it rough for them to catch up without item mall. Even to farm to make the kind of money they need it will take a while.

Phishy's idea is good, but I was also thinking maybe some in came refine materials that are super rare that boost up chances. It would give something extra that is worth farming all the time. Something that can be put in the place where venurune goes and adds extra, maybe a third of what venurune does. This way players have something else to try, but it should not take away much from im purchases because many will still want to pay for convience. There could also be one more similar to plutorune(even more rare) and then, maybe, we could reintroduce more armor that has a chance of breaking upon failure again. There could be different items for different levels of armor.. lower levels of armor should have refine stuff much easier to farm, kind of thing.. and the rarity increases drastically as the player gets to the top. There should be no in game item thats similar to neptunerune.

[Charas]

Hello there!

 

I would like to give here my personnal views on what should be the future of ROSE, and how I would like to see this game working. Most here do not know me, forum account looks pretty new as I didn't post anything since the whole Gravity -> Warpportal transition, but well, i m kind of a true ROSE veteran. I have been playing IROSE during beta phases, then EURose... NARose and several PServers. Here on NARose, I was the 2nd Raider reaching lvl 210 (max after the start of Evolution) (first was Yondaime... this bastard made it 5hours before me, i ll never forget that, and trust me 5hours was nothing considering the amount of time needed to lvl) and last but not the least, I was the first player to defeat Executor Kera (helped by my fellow cleric friend Darkyan333) back when Prison wasn't so easy (most players couldn't even go around the first corner of the room 1 facing the stairs even with full parties).

I do know noone really gives a damn about all that but I had to present myself to make you see that maybe my ideas can have some value.

 

To many mistakes have been done in the last years, to many core design of the game have been changed for the worst, while real problems haven t been dealt with.

I do pray for devs to not start and try to mess with the drop system (as beeing suggested on another thread) as it s really fine the way it is, it has always been. The only realistic thing to do would be to drastically lower bosses HP once again, like it was years and years ago (for good reasons). Bosses were a fast kill and so your chance of being KSed were greatly lower, unless you had to compete with other farming team (hey there my beloved FamilyHonor chinese zully farmers). 

I do understand that with great HP pool, Devs tried to make bosses be more of a challenge... but they are in noway "harder" to kill or do not even have "interesting" mechanics. It is only once again an uneeded time sink wich bring more problems than solutions. Complicated boss mechanics and huge HP pools should only be a part of the dungeon system and maybe some very few bosses spawning very rarely or having outstanding droptables, and should be made in a way that it would requiere a full party to be defeated.

 

That being said, the game as it is right now is a mess, droptables are horrible, and top gears only come from pvp games (honor), or mindless farming (valor), and this all just don't make sense. 

 

The way i see it, normal gears and gems + their corresponding bindrunes and talismans should ONLY come from Boss drops (higher drop% on the bindrunes, to make dropping gears an achievement and to virtually slow down the gearing process and giving the oportunity to farmers to have enougth refine attempts available). 

 

Dungeon bosses should be very challenging (requiering a full geared team) and dropping higher quality gears (and gems) wich would need also specific bindrune/talisman to be enhanced (exalted items were a good idea, if only they were better than normal gears and needing exalted bindrune+talisman to be enhanced). Valor point reward should definitly stay and be used to purchase those passive+active IM skill books, but nothing else.

 

Normal mobs should drop lisents/chemicals/crafting material (and no gears or bindrune+talisman).

 

When it comes to pvp games, it should only be there as a fun feature with a weekly player AND group ranking showing the number of kills/death/party won, wich could be displayed on the website and via ingame message boards. (trust me pvp lovers would work their ass off to see their name and clan on top)

 

Now I know, my view on how the game should be is pretty far from what it is right now, but it saddens me so much to see a game with so much potential, who "survived" for so long, going in the wrong direction. You may not be agree with me (as players and as game masters/developpers) but I can ssure you that if things were this way you would still have thousands of active players.

 

The real question would be : How to make all that happen? knowing where we are at now.

Well, it s fairly easy! Introduce a new set of equipment needing Grade 9s talisman and bindrune dropped by a set of new world bosses (lvl 230++) possibly on new maps. New equipment skins are already all around the net, new bosses design too, and as it comes to new maps (even new planet) it s here too.

Everyone will want to upgrade to the new fresh equipments, making the problems there is with the game design right now pretty much... a detail from the past! 

Devs would have to make sure the def/atk ratio of those new bosses could be handled using our current equipment BUT not the new dungeon bosses! wich would definitly requiere one of those new sets in order to be tanked and killed. The jump in Atk/Def from this new set compared to what we have now would have to be quite a lot in order to make that possible... and also making it a must have for every pvpers too.

 

I do truely believe the game can only be fixed by the introduction of new item sets rendering the old ones as obsolete. Nowadays everyone and their mom use maxed out items, some ppl have hundreds of billions and every possible set available on every of their chars... and why is that? Because all they needed to have all that is time, not a single skill needed or competition between players all u gotta do is wait in the queue! and that HAS TO change. I'm aware that farming will always come down to be a time sink but it can be a challenging one!

 

Another problem you guy must think of is the insame amount of zulies present in the game, and how rich players will just try to buy their way to those new equipment. Well if you ask me, if those equipments would really be so powerfull that it would give me an edge on my oponents, I wouldn't sell those to them, but would prefere to work on it with my guild. Eventually some ppl would still sell, but for insane amount of zulies spreading the ressources among the whole community and making it more even for everyone.

 

Ah well, that just my 2 cents (2 cents for a wall of text.. kinda cheap hu?), after 15 years playing mmos i do have a clear idea how things could work, unfortunatly Im pretty sure what i wrote was unclear and barely understandable due to my amazing english skills! but hey! at least I tried and put some effort in it.

 

I do only hope my post will not be ignored. 

 

[LexLoyalty]

My boy from irose 

Great ideas , I hope they will be taken in consideration. I've been hoping for a ranking system for some time 

+1

[lolmetimbers89]

Charas you make so much sense it hurts. The current direction of rose online is a mess in my opinion. What needs to be addressed to fix the game? Here are some of the more glaring issues

 

1. Bots - iRose/Ruff/Titan basically were free of bots. That was because enemy spawns were well thought out AND the battle system did not have 1042 aoes like it does now. You actually had move and position yourself. The game now is full of people not moving and just botting to level. Boring as. The worst part? It is actually allowed as long as you are 'babysitting' the bot. This to me is terrible game design and management by letting bots run rampant. What kind of game accepts botting? AoEAoESacriAoEAoE..."Can i join your party?","Do you have AOE?","I'm a scout/arti", "Go lure while we afk and bot/No ty we need aoe" - disgusting and kills the community

 

This extends to revamping most popular leveling AKA botting areas in the game. Oblivion temple is one of the main culprits of making the game incredibly boring and attracting botting playstyle - people come there at 80 and stay till 170. One area of the game taking that much leveling content. Luna and Eldeon are basically completely skipped =_=. Did I mention the snorefest Orlo is? 220-230 is boring and painful.

 

2. Valor gear should have always been entry level PVM gear for use in dungeons/farming. Like you said, the drop system should reward the farmers/dungeon runners by dropping the best gear in the game. Hardmode dungeons/rare epic boss spawns = best gear. It should as you stated require a full/valor geared team to complete.

 

3. The same goes with honor gear - it should have been entry level gear that is relatively easy to obtain so people can easily access PvP. There should have been even better PvP gear rewarded to those who performed well/participated a lot. This is where a ranking system would be desirable. Top 1-10 people get special PvP rewards each 2 weeks etc etc. Problems like cleric balance in CD would naturally correct themselves with more players and a better balanced pvp system.

 

4. Drop Table needs to be fixed - the current update is imo a step backwards. So much useless ground clutter and mobs don't drop anything unique to them - it is basically level based. Less but more rewarding drops are better. Quality over quantity. No one wants to pick up that crap. And all mobs should be first hit = you get drop. No exceptions. The devaluation of charm gear (and basically anything worth anything) was done the wrong way. You don't make them drop more often - you just slapped the players who recently obtained/farmed that gear in the face hard. What you should have done was...

 

5. Making top tier accessories only obtainable from end game dungeons/PvP games. Everyone is still using either 140/160 accessories or the exalted set. How backwards is it to farm level 140-160 mobs to get the best accessories in the game for level 230? Ridiculous game design again

 

6. New content should build ontop of old content instead of going around in circles and pissing off players. Refine changes...nuff said. Terrible decision to affect current tier items like that. Any progress should be a move forward and not left, then right and left again.

 

7. Last but not least the negative influence of IM and IM items in the game. 7030 Lisent U for a 15 - complete joke LOL. There is too much to go into that I could write a book. Perhaps another day.

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 08 October 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Leeny]

Charas and lolmet are very right in this. 7030 Lisent U really is a complete joke, that's just insane. And yes this game is always going left then right then left again. Hope Devs can take all this into consideration. And I do agree you guys just slapped all the players in the face with that charm move you pulled. With the accessories and with the enchanted scrolls. Huge slap in the face.

[IAfjiBa]

1. Bots - iRose/Ruff/Titan basically were free of bots. That was because enemy spawns were well thought out AND the battle system did not have 1042 aoes like it does now. You actually had move and position yourself. The game now is full of people not moving and just botting to level. Boring as. The worst part? It is actually allowed as long as you are 'babysitting' the bot. This to me is terrible game design and management by letting bots run rampant. What kind of game accepts botting? AoEAoESacriAoEAoE..."Can i join your party?","Do you have AOE?","I'm a scout/arti", "Go lure while we afk and bot/No ty we need aoe" - disgusting and kills the community

 

I can agree some. I don't like they allowed that you can use a bot if you watch the screen. In my opinion I think if you even USE a bot (Using a bot to open 999 of something is allowed) you should get kicked from the server. On the 3 time you should get banned for like a week and next time get perma banned. 

 

I know the DEVs is fixing aginst this problem. They are making it harder to use bot. Why people stil use it today? It's becuse atm they doing 100 things at the same time. It's bugs. It's king drop. It's new things that are going into the game. It's questions that needs a answer. It's alot. But they have changed some stuff that will help aginst botting. In future they will do more stuff that will stop botting. Maybe in future there will be a BOT Police? I dont know

[lolmetimbers89]

Stopping botting is something that should have been done years ago. Here are some possible solutions/remedies

 

1. Remove the skill "Target enemy". BOOM! You simply cannot bot with a mage or a ranged class anymore. You can still add in "target enemy player" for PvP. 

2. Distribute mobs further and reduce the number of small enemy spawns (Especially Oblivion Temple/Ruins)

3. Reduce reliance on aoe for leveling in general - increase single target dmg/split aoe damage or reduce number of aoe skills

4. Increase experience and rewards for single target/harder mobs. Increasing exp in luna/eldeon to make it more desirable to level there

5. Overhaul oblivion temple and introduce an autokick feature for a certain level range so people can't camp inside from 80-170

6. Introduce a system where higher level mobs do additional damage to lower leveled players. If player level = mob level then damage received is normal. If the mob is 10 levels higher then damage received is scaled and increased by 2x. Also increase mob difficulty and damage as a whole so people cannot pull 10-20 mobs easily. This will force players to seek mobs that are near their level and get people leveling in luna/eldeon maps.

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 08 October 2014 - 11:44 PM.

[IAfjiBa]

Your idea on 5. I like you have the option to play how ever you want. But the mobs should be fixed. If a player meet a '' Purple Mob '' that purple mob should be abel to kill that player so easy! That player should die from like 1 hit. 

 

I also gave a idea long time ago.

 

The idea is.. 

 

The game should be abel to know when a player move or when the player dosen't move, with this a system there can be a program that do this. If a person do over 30 (more or less) skills on the same place (she/he dosent move) , a pop up window should pop up and say '' Are you here? '' and then you can click '' Confirm ''. While this pop up window is you can't move, do skills, you cant do anything. The only thing you can do is to move your mouse and click on '' Confirm''. This can make botters get killed becuse mobs will still spawn but the players that is botting dosen't do skill becuse of this pop up window. This can help a bit aginst botting. 

 

 

[lolmetimbers89]

Imo that would be trying to cure the problem instead of preventing it in the first place.

 

The point is that players should be moving from mob to mob and not just sitting idly in one spot. In other mmos the respawn time was such that you had to move to another spot because waiting around for a new spawn would take too long. In other mmos i have played, even a small 2-4 level gap between a mob would result in a substantial increase in difficulty. So much harder that it was much easier and better exp killing mobs that were equal level to me. This system of keeping players in check and where they should be needs to be introduced into rose. Atm you can walk in as a level 80-100 Knight, Champ or Dual raider and tank Oblivion B3 if you have good gear and heals. These mobs are plentiful and are like 60 levels ABOVE your player. It just makes sense that such a higher level mob = death.

[IAfjiBa]

But the mobs should be fixed. If a player meet a '' Purple Mob '' that purple mob should be abel to kill that player so easy! That player should die from like 1 hit. 

 

As I said in the last post. I agree with you

 

My idea prevents players to stand still, like botters do. If they stand still and do aoe. A pop up window will pop up and say '' Are you here? '' While this window is up the player can not do any skills. If a active player get this message they can just cancel it, while botting players will die becuse they can't do any skills. If the player is active but botting, it can be kind annyoing every 30 skill they need to look on their client and if this person have 4 clients up and use bot. This person I think will be kinda annoyed of this pop up window and maybe will not in future use bots. 

Edited by Buffiies, 09 October 2014 - 02:08 AM.

[pdfisher]

One of the other things that encourages botting is the group function. Before, a cleric had to be in the party to heal and buff it. This made it so the cleric had to be within the 19 levels level gap. Since the introduction of the group feature, all parties now have a high level cleric in the group with them and a high level sacri. This makes it easier to bot, and also makes it so that clerics that are at level, can't get parties.

[IAfjiBa]

One of the other things that encourages botting is the group function. Before, a cleric had to be in the party to heal and buff it. This made it so the cleric had to be within the 19 levels level gap. Since the introduction of the group feature, all parties now have a high level cleric in the group with them and a high level sacri. This makes it easier to bot, and also makes it so that clerics that are at level, can't get parties.

 

The cleric didn't need to be within the 19 levels level gap. They invited fast the max levled cleric and the cleric buffed. When everyone was full buffed the cleric left from the party

 

I am sure there is alot other ideas. I am not saying my idea is best. But the idea I said in my last post prevents this. Beucse then the player need to click '' Confirm '' on the pop up window and while this pop up window is open the Character cant do any skills.

[pdfisher]

The cleric didn't need to be within the 19 levels level gap. They invited fast the max levled cleric and the cleric buffed. When everyone was full buffed the cleric left from the party

 

I am sure there is alot other ideas. I am not saying my idea is best. But the idea I said in my last post prevents this. Beucse then the player need to click '' Confirm '' on the pop up window and while this pop up window is open the Character cant do any skills.

 

True, but then they couldn't see the HP of the characters in the party. You had to tell them when your buffs were going, or if you needed heals. The group function just made it so much easier to have the max level cleric with them.