Salamander Flames too over powered - Page 3 - Muse Class - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 3 votes

Salamander Flames too over powered


  • Please log in to reply
195 replies to this topic

#51 Kermaperuna

Kermaperuna

    Scout Representative

  • Members
  • 1073 posts
  • LocationFinland
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:57 PM

Cleric 'nerfs' seem to be as sensitive topic as always.


  • 4

#52 ChampPower

ChampPower

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:19 PM

I am just going to wait for the DEV Team to nerf the flame. After that, I will wait for the majority of clerics stop playing war. Then, I will wait until people complain about why there are so few clerics in war and why we do not have cleric requirement before the war start. I am not even bother argue here.

Edited by ChampPower, 03 October 2014 - 02:20 PM.

  • 2

#53 LexLoyalty

LexLoyalty

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 461 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis | IGN: LexUnknown

Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:55 PM

Add a 2.5 sec cool down is such a big nerf weow

All the clerics will quit rose after this forever <\3


Edited by LexLoyalty, 03 October 2014 - 03:03 PM.

  • 0

#54 iMatt

iMatt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1539 posts
  • LocationMunich, Bavaria
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:20 PM

I am just going to wait for the DEV Team to nerf the flame. After that, I will wait for the majority of clerics stop playing war. Then, I will wait until people complain about why there are so few clerics in war and why we do not have cleric requirement before the war start. I am not even bother argue here.

 

As nia said, you like those brain afk bots that just spam flames nothing else? when a cleric heals 1.2 million in a crystal defender game just with flames and NOTHING else, you think that is well designed?

 

Idk, noobs feeling strong while relying on lame mechanics, if that s how clerics work these days - no need of timed heals like party recovery when berserks active, AoE purify of Arual debuffs vs mages or using cooldowns effectivly then the cleric class should be removed - top of the scoreboard just by spamming summons seem to make certain players in here thinking they are good clerics, which is not the case ;)

LunaXavier, you said yourself, that all you do is spamming flames + party heal - you really think that s what makes a good clerics?

-Good clerics heal a focused target in the moment the damage comes in

-Good clerics purify debuffs like coldsnap or mute within not even a second after it being casted

-Good clerics tank kite (that means MOVE) and evade damage not tanking it blindly while spamming AoE heals and then wondering why the berserked sword champ and the 2 raiders bursted you

-Good clerics would never ask for more AoE heal abilities cause they don t hit single target heals on point.

 

So now go back to your friends on Draconis and play your dumb AoE vs AoE Crystal Defender, and pray for no server merge.


Edited by iMatt, 03 October 2014 - 03:22 PM.

  • 3

#55 Pigggybank

Pigggybank

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 86 posts
  • LocationIn Junon City eating popcorn
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:37 PM

As nia said, you like those brain afk bots that just spam flames nothing else? when a cleric heals 1.2 million in a crystal defender game just with flames and NOTHING else, you think that is well designed?

 

Idk, noobs feeling strong while relying on lame mechanics, if that s how clerics work these days - no need of timed heals like party recovery when berserks active, AoE purify of Arual debuffs vs mages or using cooldowns effectivly then the cleric class should be removed - top of the scoreboard just by spamming summons seem to make certain players in here thinking they are good clerics, which is not the case ;)

LunaXavier, you said yourself, that all you do is spamming flames + party heal - you really think that s what makes a good clerics?

-Good clerics heal a focused target in the moment the damage comes in

-Good clerics purify debuffs like coldsnap or mute within not even a second after it being casted

-Good clerics tank kite (that means MOVE) and evade damage not tanking it blindly while spamming AoE heals and then wondering why the berserked sword champ and the 2 raiders bursted you

-Good clerics would never ask for more AoE heal abilities cause they don t hit single target heals on point.

 

So now go back to your friends on Draconis and play your dumb AoE vs AoE Crystal Defender, and pray for no server merge.

 

 

As a cleric in Draconis  you need to know that not all clerics are fast, my big heals while saving lives is a 3-4 sec delay where I don't have any big heals and  getting mobbed by 3-4 raiders: singles heals are out except for cure but that skill doesn't heal enough but it's good for purify, salamanders aid clerics who lack in heal power especially shield type and stall enemies for the up coming batch of heals. If you want the Salamanders to be balance Gm should increase their resistance to damage and lower the quantity of salamanders but keep the same heal rate. It also takes time to build up the salamanders to maximize the healing output because it's always getting destroyed in 2-3 hits, these summons act like party heals


Edited by Pigggybank, 03 October 2014 - 03:53 PM.

  • 0

#56 Pigggybank

Pigggybank

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 86 posts
  • LocationIn Junon City eating popcorn
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:38 PM

But then again you guys will complain "ooooooohhhhh the salamanders are so hard too kill" if Gm were to lower the quanity of salamanders but increase their defense 

 

Like champower said when you start nerfing cleric more than it already has, you're shooting yourself in the foot because CD is cleric dependent for there will be less frequent clerics willing to play and the complaining will be never ending


Edited by Pigggybank, 03 October 2014 - 03:56 PM.

  • 0

#57 iMatt

iMatt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1539 posts
  • LocationMunich, Bavaria
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 03:53 PM

see what i would like to give is another example:

 

Salamander Flame: healing 50% hp /3seconds over 30 seconds + increasing defense by 20% with 1minute cooldown

(same for Mana Flame but uhm 30% mana /3seconds over 30 seconds + increasing magical defense by 20% with 1 minute cooldown)

^stuff like this^don't worry beloved bot-levelers/farmers - this won't happen!

 

I am not here to say flames should be reworked - they exist for so many years now - but the current situation with clerics blindly spamming flames and outhealing clerics that use direct heals - which is WAY harder than what meghan did (read 1st post of this thread) - can't be the final stage.

 

In general, there should be a "you are only allowed to post here when you have also constructive suggestions" *shield* at the start of this thread, because all those "I am too slow to play cleric properly so I rely on easymodes" posts (yours excluded piggy) start annoying me.


Edited by iMatt, 03 October 2014 - 03:54 PM.

  • 0

#58 LunaXavier

LunaXavier

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:01 PM

You went off-topic there. I'm stating my opinions from what I experienced in draconis not based on a bunch of statistical data. I haven't state anything like I do spamming summoning and party heals and you don't even know how I play. And there is no reason for you to judge I'm a good cleric or not, calling people noobs for how they play,that is called insulting you know. Anyways, it must be because we have different views since we play different servers. I'll be glad to learn from your facts about how to be a good cleric and how you play practically not just words. Anyway, I'm done here You guys go back to the topic. I didn't came here to argue,just to state opinions and here i got insulted by a class representative :P so,Ciao,I'll be looking forward for server merge.~ :3


  • 0

#59 iMatt

iMatt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1539 posts
  • LocationMunich, Bavaria
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:11 PM

You went off-topic there. I'm stating my opinions from what I experienced in draconis not based on a bunch of statistical data.

As you said, Draconis - from my experience, Draconis Game Arena matches are way more AoE heavy which isn't a bad thing in general - it is just way easier to play.

 

I haven't state anything like I do spamming summoning and party heals and you don't even know how I play.

Read the qute below, you forgot about it?

 

And there is no reason for you to judge I'm a good cleric or not, calling people noobs for how they play,that is called insulting you know.

Yes, and it is very rude, I know that, but are you that heavily relying on your flame-heal that you have no idea how to heal properly without it?

 

Anyways, it must be because we have different views since we play different servers. I'll be glad to learn from your facts about how to be a good cleric and how you play practically not just words.

Always welcome, I am for sure not the best of the best clerics but good enaugh to know what is balanced and what not. And you understand that Namir/Nia started this thread based on a Crystal Defender where she healed 1.2 million as attacker cleric just by using flames and no other heal just to show how OP it is? 1.2 million extra heal without doing anything but recasting flames is rdicioulus.

 

Anyway, I'm done here You guys go back to the topic. I didn't came here to argue,just to state opinions and here i got insulted by a class representative :P so,Ciao,I'll be looking forward for server merge.~ :3

Good.

 

 


 


 

 

PS: I forgot to edit something here, a cleric also need to gave up some time for heals while he keeps channeling the flames summon spell every 2.5seconds. They won't be able to cast party heals after every 2.5 seconds when the time comes for them to summon flames once again.

 

You just said, you use party heals while keeping flames up.


  • 0

#60 ChampPower

ChampPower

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:13 PM

iMatt, I have tried to stay out of your argument, and I still am. All I am going say is your calculation assumes the flames are healing all the time, but the reality is THE FLAMES ARE NOT HEALING ALL THE TIME. Sorry, I have to capitalize it to ensure you read it carefully. the flames can be destroyed in second by AOEs. In war, there are many classes with AOEs to destroy the flames. The war is not exclusively to the raiders. If you believe war is exclusively to raider, then maybe it is time to seriously nerf the raider.

Edited by ChampPower, 03 October 2014 - 04:16 PM.

  • 4

#61 iMatt

iMatt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1539 posts
  • LocationMunich, Bavaria
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:19 PM

iMatt, I have tried to stay out of your argument. I still am. All I am going say is your calculation assumes the flames are healing all the time, but the reality is THE FLAMES ARE NOT HEALING ALL THE TIME. Sorry, I have to capitalize it to ensure you read it carefully. the flames can be destroyed in second by AOEs. In war, there are many classes with AOEs to destroy the flames. The war is not exclusively to the raiders.

ah oke cool, nvm then, wasn t aiming for insulting you at any point, you re cool/funny to read :D with interesting opinions soemtimes ^^

 

Edit: still kinda sad that this means there HAS to be AoE - this is a personal opinion now - but for me AoE, whether damage or heals, are really boring, yes some classes are fully designed for/around it (launcher bourgs/spear champs), but I feel like AoE spamming requires no skill at all and shouldn t even be honored as high as it is at the moment.


Edited by iMatt, 03 October 2014 - 04:22 PM.

  • 1

#62 LexLoyalty

LexLoyalty

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 461 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis | IGN: LexUnknown

Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:01 PM

If you spam flames as soon as they get destroyed they do heal 95% of the time.

Also, all the summons in the game should have a cool-down not only the flames in particular.


  • 0

#63 Leeny

Leeny

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 857 posts
  • LocationUSA New York
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:13 PM

So salamander(9%) with 4 cast does 36% heal over 3 seconds, and Bonfire(3%) with 6 cast does 18% heal over 3 seconds? Why not just drop salamander/mana flame to 6% at level 5, making it 24% at four stacks? anyway maybe i misread somethings, maybe I should stay out of this conversation xD. Haven't had time to do any CD or use my cleric in CD with the new summon gauge gems. Anyway 36% hp over 3 seconds does seem like a lot with only salamander flame. I always felt it was already very strong when it was only 2 of those salamander flames xD. Anyway...if it's fun for people to spam salamander flame..to each their own.

 

 

 

Edit: Just read more of this thread, I didn't know Heal Power increases for bonfire/flames or does it? If the numbers people are claiming are true, I have to 100% agree the flames need to be really nerfed. Because like I said, I always thought 2 salamander flames was already incredibly strong.


Edited by Leeny, 03 October 2014 - 06:44 PM.

  • 0

#64 kwayan19

kwayan19

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1031 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:43 PM

well i do agree on the nerf.. but i think there will be shortage of clerics again


  • 2

#65 Leeny

Leeny

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 857 posts
  • LocationUSA New York
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 03 October 2014 - 06:49 PM

well i do agree on the nerf.. but i think there will be shortage of clerics again

 

Only if they do a drastic nerf like they are known for. If they make it a reasonable nerf where people can still do what they want to do, like, spamming salamander flame if that's fun for them or just a tactical stance, then it will be fine. Anyway, I never used salamander flame on my cleric(didn't bother getting the skill) and it just taught me to play cleric very well, and it was very fun. But that's just me, I don't ever expect anyone to do what I do because everyone enjoys this game in their own manner


  • 0

#66 ChampPower

ChampPower

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 October 2014 - 07:29 PM

Only if they do a drastic nerf like they are known for. If they make it a reasonable nerf where people can still do what they want to do, like, spamming salamander flame if that's fun for them or just a tactical stance, then it will be fine. Anyway, I never used salamander flame on my cleric(didn't bother getting the skill) and it just taught me to play cleric very well, and it was very fun. But that's just me, I don't ever expect anyone to do what I do because everyone enjoys this game in their own manner


I do not get it. You did not use the flames. You even said that you did not bother getting the the flames. Then how can you automatically label it as OP? I am just wondering. You can play it anyway that you want, but why do you want people to play the game by using your way, too.

Edited by ChampPower, 03 October 2014 - 07:31 PM.

  • 1

#67 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 03 October 2014 - 07:47 PM

Just saying: An Area Of Effect Heal with 9% hp / 3 seconds stackable up to 54% hp every three seconds - and you still complain about being forced to recast with a cooldown of 2.5 seconds?

This is conditional matt.
1: It takes hmm, 10 seconds to cast all 4?

2: Takes 3-4 seconds to AoE all of them dead

3: now you're on CD burning to get all 4 back, while the rest of the enemy team beats the snot out of your team.

It may sound OP, and I'll attest to it being strong, but it's not an end all issue. It just needs some tweaking. 

 

After you shed light on it, between wounded status, aoe's and the CD, well.... it's not that debilitating to me. 


  • 1

#68 joelhouse09

joelhouse09

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 186 posts

Posted 03 October 2014 - 08:51 PM

all battle cleric will convert to salamander instead of sword. . . Unbreakable battle cleric. . .

Edited by joelhouse09, 03 October 2014 - 08:53 PM.

  • 0

#69 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:55 PM

all battle cleric will convert to salamander instead of sword. . . Unbreakable battle cleric. . .

until 2 dual swords start spamming wounded on your BC group and own you. >< was a nice theory though. 


  • 1

#70 kwayan19

kwayan19

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1031 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:39 PM

duals are so rare in cd


  • 0

#71 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:44 PM

That's cause there isn't much demand for them, if people started survival solely off healing they would get used more cause people would see how effective wounded is -oh wait....- lol. but really, the game is becoming so vast and diverse, it's gonna be hard press to see a "common" build other then in Katars simply cause there's only so many ways to build a melee fighter. [same issue with spears] 


  • 0

#72 Squipy

Squipy

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1237 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 04 October 2014 - 12:35 AM

People haven't mentioned that healing inflicted goes hand in hand with damage inflicted.. The loss of HP doesn't just come out of nowhere, but we're just focusing on how much a salamander flame can heal, rather than the fact that they are only healing HP that is being lost through combat. And because damage output has definitely increased, since people dying much quicker now, doesn't it make sense for healing amounts to also increase?

 

Let's look at the example Meghan posted. Since I was a part of that game, I know they had 4 champs. Each champ contributed over 1 million damage inflicted. Taking into account the damage they inflicted to the crystal, I'd say they did approximately 4 million damage to players just between the four of them. And including damage from the rest of their team, it was probably like 5-6m or so all up. The clerics on our team healed a total of 4.5 million HP, so most of the damage that was taken was effectively restored. Since I had salamander flames, I restored most of this impact. Unfortunately it didn't win us the game, but we clearly did our part. 

 

i don't think it's about effort, or concentration being lost, salamander flames do a great job of keeping people alive. mainly because they're able to continue on healing intermittently even while the cleric is preoccupied getting hit and can't heal. Since clerics have so much to do in CD, i'd say this was a good thing, not necessarily bad.

 

However, people seem to think that you can cast these flames and take a load off. Believe it or not, they are a type of HP restoration that can require some strategy as well.. You wouldn't cast a single target heal if an AOE has just damaged your team members right? So you wouldn't cast a salamander flame where an instant heal would be more beneficial. They're casted when your team are able to survive that few seconds of recasting. Or if all your heals are on cool down. 

 

I mean it may seems like they heal a lot, but they're only healing as much as people are receiving damage (which is pretty high atm). it's just that they're more efficient at doing that. Secondly, they are not so overpowered that they don't come with drawbacks, as people have already mentioned. If you cast a salamander flame during war, you are taking up time that could have been used to cast an instant heal or another skill. Sure, 2.5s is pretty fast, but seconds are precious in CD!! You also need to keep recasting because the flames get extinguished relatively fast as well. Which also means you can't maintain 4 salamanders going throughout the entire game, so the stacking at 54% is never even reached or maintained long enough to be too OP. 

 

as a cleric, I'm not really for or against nerfing them...if they do get nerfed then great, one less skill to worry about. And if doesn't get nerfed..well perhaps more clerics should get them because it does help a lot. I'd even argue that nerfing the flames would actually detract from all this 'diversity of builds', because at the moment, some clerics have them some clerics don't. The ones that don't have flames, have better buffs, or stronger single/party heals or something else that makes up for it. so too much of a nerf might make them pointless to get, which would actually further limit what you can do with a cleric :/

 

btw, contrary to popular belief on this forum, there is a way to argue your point without being disrespectful to people in the process /justsaying


  • 1

#73 dom33fr

dom33fr

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 382 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:48 AM

ah oke cool, nvm then, wasn t aiming for insulting you at any point, you re cool/funny to read :D with interesting opinions soemtimes ^^

 

Edit: still kinda sad that this means there HAS to be AoE - this is a personal opinion now - but for me AoE, whether damage or heals, are really boring, yes some classes are fully designed for/around it (launcher bourgs/spear champs), but I feel like AoE spamming requires no skill at all and shouldn t even be honored as high as it is at the moment.

 

Typical "I'm a high level raider i'm so cool, I have to work for my kills single hitting and i'm the $h1t, you and your aoe are lazy a$$, you're noobs and you don't deserve points"  person...

 

honestly, that kind of behavior and feeling has been going on for years. YOu might not be satisfied the game is easier for others and they enjoy it like this and your game is hard, takes skills and practice and you should (in ur biased opinion) get more than them .... but what u should really do is 1) stfu 2) quit. Oh, and lower your immense ego by a nice amount.

 

Salamander Flames aren't OP at all, as others stated, they can be fast killed and if it's the cleric job to recast them fast, heal them, then let it be and mind ur own business. Crybaby.


Edited by dom33fr, 04 October 2014 - 01:49 AM.

  • 0

#74 james20

james20

    I am New.

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 04 October 2014 - 03:01 AM

Lol why so mad?

Btw Matt doesn't only play raider
  • 0

#75 joelhouse09

joelhouse09

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 186 posts

Posted 04 October 2014 - 04:32 AM

salamander flameS+ 15% received hp is insane for bc. . . Healing while damaging. . .
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users