80 replies to this topic

[Sera]

Just throwing this out there.

It is a weapon with 10 attack power that also adds +340 ATK if your strength is 95 or more.

Since no one ever answers my goddamn questions, I wasted quite a bit of money to figure this out, but the 10 attack power is what is used in calculating damage. The +340 attack is added in later making it deal significantly less damage than a weapon having 350 straight attack power.

For all the negatives this weapon has, shouldn't the damage at least be comparable to a Hurricane Fury or Giant Axe, neither of which have any of the massive restrictions on them?

[Ramen]

Wow, that sucks. I hope they fix this. I was actually hoping Doom Slayer would be useful in renewal.

[Sera]

Well, I'm just saying, I thought it would be a +350 attack power axe (ie, the highest attack power axe) and so I made a +7 one which wasn't terribly cheap, and got all the gear in place to be able to deal with the double SP restriction...


... and my damage decreases by like 2k

I wish I had known that before I tried to +7 my Hurricane Fury, which failed.

Edited by Sera, 18 November 2010 - 09:45 AM.

[SamuelAdams]

That sucks...

Also, this weapon has aspd restriction and double sp consuption too, so the power comes at a price. Fix this?
It's pointless to have the weapon in this state. Other axes are better and have no penalties like this one does if above is true...(?)

[Sera]

I would assume that a weapon with double SP consumption and -40% attack speed, both serious hindrances to the class using the weapon, would receive the appropriate increase in weapon power rather than just "bonus attack"

[Emichio]

the Weapon Attack is not the same as the 340 equip attack it adds~

[DrAzzy]

Hm, it should be adding equip attack, which is effected by +% modifiers, endows, and so on - could you share your data on it, and what the expected and actual results were? Does the behavior match what is expected from the physical attack spreadsheet you sent me? Does it only occur with skills? Etc.

[TwilightsCall]

A 9x biochem I partied with was doing 100k+ bombs with a doom slayer, I don't know how that tips the scales in this particular discussion since I'm not a biochem, but it looks to me that its working fine on skills :x

[Kaden14]

100k bomb is pretty low damage depending on the monster

[Susan]

the good thing about it is the massive weight, assuming the atk bonus at 95str is as good as the weapon atk from hf / giant axe,
so axe boomerang increases when using a doom slayer

if it isn't, then it's an unintended nerf/bug/fail

[Tofu]

It is working properly. Attack from equipment bonuses such as BSB (+50) and Porcellio (+25) come under the same category as the Doom Slayer's +340 attack, which is just plain attack added on, but can still be affected by cards. The base weapon attack however, is the only thing that is affected by Str. So a weapon with 350 base attack with 100 str would actually have 525 attack from the weapon alone. 100 Str with a Doom Slayer would have 355 attack.

[Sera]

Mechanic with 96 strength, 105 vitality, 70 dexterity, full Mastersmith buffs (Power Maximize, Maximum Power Thrust, Adrenaline Rush, Weapon Perfection, Axe Mastery).

+7 Doom Slayer [1] consistently deals about 6.5k with Axe Tornado to stuff in Magma 2.
+4 Hurricane Fury [1] consistently deals about 8k with Axe Tornado to stuff in Magma 2.

I am aware of the difference in Weapon Attack and Equipment Attack... now at least.
But a Weapon should be giving Weapon Attack in my opinion. This was not really an issue pre-renewal, but with the way strength has changed post-renewal, I would say that the item is not working as intended, even though the behavior is to be expected.

I don't care that equipment gives a different sort of attack, but Doom Slayer really does need to give Weapon Attack, otherwise it is next to worthless because of the huge disparity in damage.

[Sera]

It is working properly. Attack from equipment bonuses such as BSB (+50) and Porcellio (+25) come under the same category as the Doom Slayer's +340 attack, which is just plain attack added on, but can still be affected by cards. The base weapon attack however, is the only thing that is affected by Str. So a weapon with 350 base attack with 100 str would actually have 525 attack from the weapon alone. 100 Str with a Doom Slayer would have 355 attack.

Is there any reason though, that the effect of the weapon should not be reconsidered in light of renewal, as the way it works now makes it an incredibly disappointing weapon?

I mean, if they're going to word something to make it seem like it acts like a 350 attack power weapon, it should work as a 350 attack power weapon in my opinion.

Or are you going to argue that it's working fine just to be a d ck.

[colo]

lol this weapons is supper old, thats why it is the way it is, back in the day it used to be one of the best, now there's way better weapons... so just buy those better weapons and problem solve. u cant expect to get a really good weapon for less than 10mil which is around how much this axe is worth, of course the newer weapons are worth more and harder to get, which is why they are way better.

[Sera]

Even if the attack were weapon attack it wouldn't be a 'super good weapon' It would provide slightly more attack power than a hurricane fury, but it DOUBLES YOUR SP CONSUMPTION AND DECREASES YOUR ATTACK SPEED BY 40%!

And I had a better weapon, but I broke it trying to +7 it because I thought this would be a suitable replacement in case the upgrade failed.

Other than saying "LOL, buy a nu weapn"
Shouldn't it be revised in light of the attack formula change with renewal?

I mean, it worked as intended pre-renewal, but a weapon should be providing weapon attack, logically, and not armor (equipment) attack.

Edited by Sera, 18 November 2010 - 03:06 PM.

[Stalkerness]

back in the day it used to be one of the best

This weapon was garbage and sub-par the day it was implemented.

[SamuelAdams]

Agree with sera and bump...
(Feel like posting this in the renewal feedback subforums, don't know where though)

[Miii]

I knew it was a bad idea to buy this weapon

[Sera]

I didn't really know where it should go either, as it's not really bugged necessarily, but it does very much need to be reconsidered by the GM team imo.
And if it were posted in the bug reports forum, well, the GMs just never even read that, or if they do, it's only like once a month, and I'd kind of like a viable leveling weapon before that time.

(And about it being a cheap weapon, people have been selling +7s at about 40~50mil lately, which would lead one to believe that it did work).

[SamuelAdams]

10-25mil on valk unupgraded...
Expect people who want to sell this weapon, being stuck for it a while.

Edited by SamuelAdams, 18 November 2010 - 04:11 PM.

[Sera]

I did send in a ticket about it, so hopefully something was done.

But I did lose 40mil on the weapon and then the incalculable price of the loss of my Hurricane Fury, so I wanted to make sure other people felt the pain too. Namely people trying to get rid of this.

[Tofu]

I think of it this way. For people who CANNOT afford the best there currently is, like a Hurricane Fury, can instead settle for the not-as-great alternative Doom Slayer. Not every weapon can be better than everything else, otherwise that'd be an endless spiral of constantly buffing obsolete weapons.

[DrAzzy]

Oooh, I SEE THE PROBLEM! It gives equip attack which isn't modified by strength. Okay, yeah, this change in formulas nerfed doomslayer into oblivion.

This ought to be addressed in some way, but it's pretty much like the issue with the magni set sucking now :-/

[Sera]

My main points for buffing it are:
* As a weapon, it should offer weapon attack
* Most of the older weapons with high pure attack power became better post-renewal, so there's no reason why it should not too
* The distinction between weapon and equipment attack is never explicitly stated in-game, so it is misleading
* It has greater, purposeful, drawbacks to usage compared to things like HF and GA, so I would expect it, in the same role, to perform better than these. (by purposeful drawbacks, I don't just mean like "it has lower attack" or "it has one less slot" but "it has inherently designed drawbacks indicating it was intended to be a specialized weapon)
* There really aren't a whole lot of options in terms of axes. It is not an acceptable substitute for a Hurricane Fury. There are three good mech weapons currently in the game, all of them too rare and valuable to be vended.

[Onpar]

Doom slayer should give weapon attack, since it is a weapon. Can't imagine it being complicated to adjust ether. The drawbacks more then justify it holding the highest weapon attack in game.