Challenge Dungeon MK 3 - Page 3 - Classic Foundry - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Challenge Dungeon MK 3


151 replies to this topic

#51 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 July 2015 - 10:29 AM

AI Is going in today (will need refinement) Setting HP to giant beefy punching bags for testing purposes.
  • 0

#52 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 01 July 2015 - 10:36 AM

How high is giant/beefy? Dont make them unkillable unless there's only a handful of them around, it could get easy to be swarmed under.

 

Also I recommend editing Hans post and making a note of which monsterIDs you're currently using so if you ever refer back to it later you know what's being used.


  • 0

#53 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 06 July 2015 - 02:35 PM

So assuming we've got skills for them next week it's probably a good idea to start considering monster stats, they currently have Kobold stats and it's going to be hard to figure out how strong they are if they do no damage.
 
I recommend we start off with Bio3 monster stats and go from there, you can maybe drop them 10-20%.
 
Kathy for caster
Cecil for ranged
Eremes for melee
 
The MVP seems mostly a caster too, so maybe MVP Kathy?
 
I was also looking at the monster skill formats and I'm going to write something up so people understand the sorts of things we can do and hopefully people can come up with some creative combos.

 

 VOlHmuH.png

 

It's hard to find an example that actually has all the boxes ticked but here's a brief description of the values:

  • Monster DB Name - self explanatory
  • State - idle/chasing/attacking, these are the three main ones, but there's more for various misc stuff (Shinobis rebirth for example)
  • Skill Name - name of the skill, a good resource to find out more is here
  • Skill Level - self explanatory
  • Chance - I'm not sure if this is a priority or percentage, but 1000 seems to be the same as 100%
  • Cast Time - in milliseconds
  • Delay - cooldown before it can be cast again in milliseconds
  • No_Dispel - this dictates if the spell can be interrupted by players hitting it
  • Monster_Type - this is used mostly when monsters go passive for a while (Sasquatch or Hunter Fly for example), there's quite a few types but I cant find the specific number or what they do right now
  • Send_Emote - this will attach an emote to the use of the skill
  • Emote_Number - this is the number of the emote used, cant find the list right now
  • If_Condition - here you can add a single condition that must be met for the skill to be used, there's a handful of these, some common ones (rude attack, enemy count, health percent). There's also some really cool ones like them detecting abnormal statuses or skills cast against them.
  • Condition - the actual value of the condition, this would hold the percentage of health to be below or the number of slaves to be left alive to trigger etc

Edited by Themes, 06 July 2015 - 05:45 PM.

  • 1

#54 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 08 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

playing around in there now....


Edited by Xellie, 08 July 2015 - 01:30 PM.

  • 0

#55 AlmrOfAtlas

AlmrOfAtlas

    They pay me to post.

  • Members
  • 6533 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 08 July 2015 - 06:43 PM

 

I was also looking at the monster skill formats and I'm going to write something up so people understand the sorts of things we can do and hopefully people can come up with some creative combos.

 

What's up with this, are you a dev now? You should probably avoid speaking for people other than yourself.

 

Where did you get that spreadsheet btw? Would you mind linking it so that others can provide constructive input? It would be extremely useful!

 

Actually on the same topic, I was having a (super limited) chat with Campy a bit earlier in the year about Challenge Dungeon input, specifically regarding the very few community members he relies on for suggestions and internal testing, and it got me wondering. Why is it that there's seemingly only one person onboard for this stuff, or at least only one who posts to the fact? I asked Camp this very question and he conceded that he was placing too much trust and responsibility on these individual(s), and that their limited pov may not represent the wants and needs of the greater Classic community. Specifically, he stated that he needed to be more transparent with regards to the suggestions of a certain individual and how they're affecting implementation, whom I am quoting now!

 

I'd like to call Camp out on this again, as it seems he either forgot or disregarded the convo because it didn't occur publicly, hence no accountability. Shouldn't an open group be made for this sort of thing? If the CMs want to crowdsource then they need to do so equitably, or else god knows what forms of "bias" will crop up down the line. How is the opinion of one community member in any way more relevant than the opinions of others, especially if they can prove themselves to be constructive and reliable, with relevant, alternate povs to more thoroughly explore ideas? Honestly, I haven't even seen much of an opportunity to give input since everything is happening behind the scenes in PM and Skype chat. When we as "normal players" hear about this stuff it's already 90% decided and on its way to implementation.

 

I've personally been wanting to give my opinions on this stuff for a long time, but I just haven't been able to. My posts in the relevant threads (like this one, but I'm referring to earlier duns) end up getting ignored because I don't have the data behind me, or a direct line of contact with the CMs through which I can present my ideas and request documentation to assist my arguments and work the numbers. I've just ended up configuring an offline Herc to fiddle around there, but since the technical stuff doesn't translate and I can't get my hands on an Aegis build it's really only been useful for general ideas. Nothing I can actually pitch. Why is it that even with the best intentions and a relatively good deal of working knowledge as to RO's mechanics, what works in-game and what doesn't, I can't contribute to what you guys are doing? Why is it that no one else can either? Why is it that only one person seems to have any input at all? How did he get to that point anyway? Why isn't there a group for this? Why is NONE of the dev talk public-facing?

 

Questions that need answering. Sooner rather than later please.


  • 0

#56 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:24 PM

That "spreadsheet" is what you see there, I couldnt get the forums to display a nice table after a bunch of different methods so just decided to throw it in excel and post a picture of it. If you want the content you're going to have to search the internet for some server files, I doubt the GMs would be interested in me linking to them here.

 

If you want to get yourself heard post here, you cant use the argument "I posted earlier but got ignored so now why bother" because hey guess what so did I and guess what I still am, thats how these things work.

 

In any case, I'd prefer if you kept any drama garbage to your other thread and kept useful things in here. When I figure out a reasonable way to check out the skill combos I'll post a trip report here, but until then I really dont have much else to add.


  • 3

#57 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:51 PM

The joker like ele change is absolutely hell. Even if it is an MVP, I think it should be a set change at % hp (think bio/thanatos) cause it really changes what classes you can approach the mvp with.

 

That said, I felt like the others didn't really use skills often enough to be interesting. They have a long cooldown?


  • 0

#58 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:57 PM

 

 

 

 VOlHmuH.png

 

Hey new info, that will help alot we never received a translation of what the various fields were on the script file so we were kind of guessing. I think I can improve the AIs alot now.


  • 0

#59 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:58 PM

facepalm

 

Even I could have helped you with that


  • 1

#60 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 09 July 2015 - 01:13 PM

Cool. I think they get read in order too so having one skill above another gives it a higher priority, so you can have things that are cast at 100% chance at x% health guaranteed by pushing them up the list, but if they're lower its possible it would keep casting its normal array of skills.


  • 0

#61 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:11 PM

Proposed Stats:

 

8EqQL0q.png


  • 0

#62 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:12 PM

Cool. I think they get read in order too so having one skill above another gives it a higher priority, so you can have things that are cast at 100% chance at x% health guaranteed by pushing them up the list, but if they're lower its possible it would keep casting its normal array of skills.

 

 

reference that against elder and kathy to confirm it

 

ELDER    BERSERK_ST    MG_FIREBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11    
ELDER    RUSH_ST    MG_FROSTDIVER    9    1000    500    5000                    
ELDER    RUSH_ST    MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     12    
ELDER    BERSERK_ST    MG_STONECURSE    10    1000    0    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11    
ELDER    BERSERK_ST    SA_DISPELL    1    0    0    30000                    
// ELDER    BERSERK_ST    NPC_RUN    1    200    500    0    NO_DISPEL                
ELDER    BERSERK_ST    NPC_SILENCEATTACK    5    50    700    5000    NO_DISPEL                
// ELDER    IDLE_ST    NPC_EMOTION    1    20    0    30000        MONSTER_TYPE_17    SEND_EMOTICON     9    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_FIREBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_FROSTDIVER    9    1000    500    5000                    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     12    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_STONECURSE    10    1000    0    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11  

 

 

I think you're right.


Edited by Xellie, 09 July 2015 - 02:12 PM.

  • 0

#63 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:14 PM

reference that against elder and kathy to confirm it

 

ELDER    BERSERK_ST    MG_FIREBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11    
ELDER    RUSH_ST    MG_FROSTDIVER    9    1000    500    5000                    
ELDER    RUSH_ST    MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     12    
ELDER    BERSERK_ST    MG_STONECURSE    10    1000    0    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11    
ELDER    BERSERK_ST    SA_DISPELL    1    0    0    30000                    
// ELDER    BERSERK_ST    NPC_RUN    1    200    500    0    NO_DISPEL                
ELDER    BERSERK_ST    NPC_SILENCEATTACK    5    50    700    5000    NO_DISPEL                
// ELDER    IDLE_ST    NPC_EMOTION    1    20    0    30000        MONSTER_TYPE_17    SEND_EMOTICON     9    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_FIREBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_FROSTDIVER    9    1000    500    5000                    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_LIGHTNINGBOLT    7    1000    1500    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     12    
ELDER    IDLE_ST    MG_STONECURSE    10    1000    0    5000            SEND_EMOTICON     11  

 

 

I think you're right.

Most likely it rolls on #1 if fail rolls #2 on so on until the end.


  • 0

#64 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:16 PM

Proposed Stats:

 

8EqQL0q.png

 

At first glance these seem a little weak / low damage, unless you're planning on them being mobby mcmobberson, no?

 

Keep in mind if they're demi we can reduce the damage further than any other race.

 


  • 0

#65 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:25 PM



At first glance these seem a little weak / low damage, unless you're planning on them being mobby mcmobberson, no?

 

Keep in mind if they're demi we can reduce the damage further than any other race.

8zxqjUg.png


  • 0

#66 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:26 PM

Most likely it rolls on #1 if fail rolls #2 on so on until the end.

 Yeah.

 

As for the stats, honestly, you'd probably need to double them (atk, int, hp). Also attackspeed would be a nice thing to include in the chart.

 

Even if you included stuff like power ups or two handed quicken they still wouldnt be that scary for example:

 

Kathy has 180 int (99 and MVP have 223)

Eremes has ~2k attack

Cecil has 1200-1800 attack and power up.

 

Edit: Jerk.

 

Second edit: Those numbers look a bit better, the attack probably needs to come up for the Ranged/Melee and depending how you want the MVP to skill you may want to consider lowering its attack some and increasing its int. For example if you want it to be spamming hard hitting skills you can increase its int and make it hit like a pansy requiring mdef or a few moderate skills used occasionally with hard hitting melee etc.


Edited by Themes, 09 July 2015 - 02:30 PM.

  • 0

#67 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:31 PM

On a side note should we build a slave spawn for the MVP? What if it was an elemental? since they are supposed to be mages.


  • 0

#68 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:49 PM

I think you could get away with just using the regular monster stats, 1-2 of each maybe and only have it resummon when it gets below a certain number of slaves. That way you can pick and choose which slaves you want to tank/deal with. Only issue would be making sure they're alternative monsters that dont drop stuff to prevent endless farming of the bosses slaves.


  • 0

#69 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 09 July 2015 - 02:52 PM

I think you could get away with just using the regular monster stats, 1-2 of each maybe and only have it resummon when it gets below a certain number of slaves. That way you can pick and choose which slaves you want to tank/deal with. Only issue would be making sure they're alternative monsters that dont drop stuff to prevent endless farming of the bosses slaves.

Was thinking a weakened Ifrit or a Kasa as a "Fire Elemental"


  • 0

#70 Thyrial

Thyrial

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 51 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic

Posted 09 July 2015 - 05:03 PM

Do you guys have any thoughts as to drops yet? I'd really like to see some of the pre-renewal items that we still don't have access to added in some form and the Challenge dungeon seems like the perfect option for that. Things like Cold Heart and Lunakaligo that dropped from the New World mobs that you've had to re-purpose for new content.


  • 4

#71 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:21 PM

Ok lets talk about drops e-pals.
 
The last (successful) Challenge Dungeon we had consisted almost entirely of Ygg Seeds with a bunch of other misc drops (Crowns, Bone Helms etc). This time around the monsters are going to be harder/scarier and I'd like to see a shift away from the heavy Seed drops we had.
 
darkabe made a pretty cool post that had nice links to all of the New World stuff that we still dont have:

Spoiler

 

I'd like to see a bunch of these items available from or through the dungeon. There's 3 monsters and an MVP in there so we have 32 potential loot slots to fill.

 

A lot of people have expressed interest in seeing GSBs available in the dungeon also and I'm sure people would like to see Seeds return (at a more reasonable rate). It's going to be hard to match the drops up with the monster theme as we generally do (staffs on casters etc) as there's a few items I'd like to see that dont really have a comparable monster.

 

Here's what I'm thinking about right now.

 

Caster:

  1. Trash item 50%
  2. GSB 8%
  3. Empty Bottle Box (200) 5%
  4. Seed 3%
  5. ?
  6. Sprint Shoes 0.5%
  7. Sprint Mail 0.5%
  8. Sprint Ring 0.1%

Ranged

  1. Trash item 50%
  2. GSB 8%
  3. Seed 3%
  4. ?
  5. Bradium Shield 0.3%
  6. Pinguicula Corsage 0.1%
  7. Angelic Ring 0.1%
  8. ?

Melee

  1. Trash item 50%
  2. Karvo 10%
  3. GSB 8%
  4. Seed 3%
  5. Lunakaligo 0.2%
  6. Black Cat 0.1%
  7. Cold Heart 0.1%
  8. ?

MVP

  1. GSB 100%
  2. GSB 100%
  3. GSB 100%
  4. Eraser 5%
  5. Ivory Knife 5%
  6. Leather of Tendrilion 5%
  7. ?
  8. Slotting coupon for mids?

That's a rough idea, just throwing stuff together, it's hard to fit the useful drops for an entire expanded town into four monsters without making them a little too packed. Someone also mentioned potentially using the trash drops for this quest where you turn in items for consumables http://irowiki.org/classic/Tripatriate_Union's_Feud.

 

I really had no idea what to put in the MVP to be honest, the boss drops from New World seem a bit underwhelming. We did supposedly have the Geek Glasses coupon in the last Challenge Dungeon MVP drop table (although i never saw one) but due to the current price of mids it may just be better to use one of the universal tokens.

 


  • 1

#72 Xellie

Xellie

    Valkyrie

  • RO Fungineering
  • 18610 posts
  • Twitter:@nekoxellie
  • LocationValhalla
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Europe ban!

Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:24 PM

mvp : eraser 2% :p_hi:


  • 0

#73 lxst

lxst

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 484 posts
  • LocationDetroit, Mi, USA
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Classic/Restart

Posted 25 August 2015 - 08:27 PM

i agree with something like Themes' idea for drops. lvl 4 wep mats at a low drop is another good idea, or even oca's. 


  • 0

#74 Campitor

Campitor

    Darned Forever

  • RO1 Production
  • 9250 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 26 August 2015 - 09:00 AM

-Sprite Issue, today we discovered that for these G_MONSTERNAME type monsters they are hardcoded to look for the base monster sprite in the client and will NOT look for their own unique sprite. Possible solution for next week, we will replace all of our G_Monstername candidate sprites with a test sprite and figure out which are usable for our purpose. It may be that none of them are if this is true we will need to figure out where to source more monsters (looking at you Drops, Picky)


  • 0

#75 Themes

Themes

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1405 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 26 August 2015 - 11:09 AM

The "best" solution to fix it is probably going to be dropping monster stats/drops onto the G_ monsters and hijacking a bunch of "real" monster IDs to use elsewhere. If you sat down and put the effort in and freed up a large enough number of monsters it's probably only something you'd have to do once.

 

Trip report:

 

Just went down there with Wizard/Priest and here's some highlights.

 

The MVP has real atk values, the Caster has average int (I'd recommend a little bit more), the Melee/Ranged both need actual atk values. Health values seem alright, they range from 300-500k and the MVP has 5mil (too much probably). None of them are boss flagged (including the MVP) so they all froze to the Wizard, but with their high health values they still took a while to die. You could probably clear through it alright with a geared Champ/Priest/Scholar.

 

Ranged - Doesnt really do anything, barely any skill use, the only thing I actually noticed was a double strafe. Damage was low due to low atk values.

Caster - Cool. Has a wide variety of abilities with some different elements, you can default Aqua and avoid most of the scary things. Damage is a little low probably.

Melee - Like the Ranged, didnt do a lot. We noticed it backslide once and I got fibered once. Damage was low due to atk values.

MVP - Tankable with Pneuma, not sure if this is intended. Hits reasonably hard ~1-1.5k per hit. Has a LOT of skills, they're not terribly scary though. It's hard to judge how hard it'd be without a mob, but I'd say it's definitely on the weak side right now.

 

I'm not sure how SinX/Sniper would do down there, it's a lot of health and they have a fairly wide array of defense/elements. But Champ/Wiz seem like strong potential killers for small groups of 3-4.


Edited by Themes, 26 August 2015 - 01:34 PM.

  • 0



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users