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Serious Reevaluation of the Volunteer Mod Program


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#1 ZeroTigress

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:01 PM

I was fine with the program back when it started in 2010 when all they did was give certain members of the community the moderator label. Then all of a sudden they started giving out VolunteerMod# accounts to erase some semblance of bias, except that became pointless because people were still able to identify who was who anyways. And now again they've gone and renamed the VolunteerMod# accounts to VM(food) names, but the anonymity still doesn't work. So honestly I say we should go back to the old ways with the mod labels and get rid of the separate VolunteerMod#/food accounts entirely.

The recent abuse of mod powers has me very concerned about the CMs' ability to rein in on those who have become a little too power-hungry. Don't give me that "if you have issues with a mod, bring it up with the CMs" crap, because I already have and nothing has changed. If anything, the mod abuse has gotten worse. CMs need to be more firm with their VMs because whether they want it to or not, players see the VMs as part of their paid staff and the face of the company. It does not do well to let the VMs mod things to however they feel like modding things and completely disregard the established Volunteer Moderation Guidelines. The kind of mod abuse I've seen here is something I expect at a fansite, not the official forums. The forums belong to WarpPortal, not the VMs so please show some semblance of authority over those who aren't even on WarpPortal's payroll. If someone's abusing their mod powers, they need to have their mod powers/VM account revoked, end of story. Keeping them around gives an impression of terrible judgment of who they bring on as VMs.

Feel free to attack me with warnings/PMs if you feel the shoe fits because I'm not afraid of you.

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#2 Xellie

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:12 PM

CMs never acknowledge concerns about vmods

 

 

ever.


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#3 ZeroTigress

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:18 PM

CMs never acknowledge concerns about vmods
 
 
ever.


Perhaps they feel they've made a mistake in bringing certain people on as VMs, but don't want to admit to that so they allow the VMs to keep their mod powers. Except in allowing people to keep their mod powers, they're actually allowing the issues with them to worsen. Terrible cycle.
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#4 Tribe

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:32 PM

I wish I did not keep my email inbox clean... Cause I have had lots of emails saying Coffee/Cina hate me and have deleted my posts. I think the Vmod program needs a way for players to see who the VMods are in game. 


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#5 Cinquine

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:35 PM

I wish I did not keep my email inbox clean... Cause I have had lots of emails saying Coffee/Cina hate me and have deleted my posts. I think the Vmod program needs a way for players to see who the VMods are in game.


Wait, emails? How did you enable that option? Mine is greyed out and won't let me receive any.

I agree modding should be more transparent. If works for Ralis and Stormhaven.
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#6 Tribe

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:37 PM

Wait, emails? How did you enable that option? Mine is greyed out and won't let me receive any.

I agree modding should be more transparent. If works for Ralis and Stormhaven.

 

I have always received them... the email does say I can turn it off though. 


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#7 Tkwan

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:39 PM

I agree that the mods should simply be known by their forum personalities instead of "Volunteer Mod" or "VM". Just give their forum accounts the "Volunteer Moderator" title under the avatar.

 

 

Now, this particular incident that sparked this tirade is completely justified. There is one VM in particular that is power tripping, and has been a problem since they were made a VM.

 

To WP - It doesn't reflect bad if you have to revoke VM status of someone. It reflects bad when that individual, despite being given opportunities to change, does not and continues to abuse the status. It's no different than a corrupt police officer that the police chief defends simply because they're "part of the team".

 

VM11/Sushi needs to go.


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#8 hoikarnage

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:13 PM

Most of the volunteers here do a decent job as far as I can tell, but I agree it is time for a serious reevaluation. I can't mention any names, but I know at least one of them has gotten old and bitter and clearly does not care to follow the rules except when it suits them. And there are a couple others who don't seem to do anything at all.

 

No offense to those who actually do their job well here, but most mods are only good for a year or two before they develop severe superiority complexes, and there have been definite examples of that lately on the forums.

 


Edited by hoikarnage, 04 April 2015 - 04:14 PM.

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#9 ZeroTigress

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:19 PM

We really do need to bring back transparency to the Volunteer Mod program. It makes no sense to have separate VolunteerMod#/food accounts when they're behaving in a way that doesn't separate them from members of the community. The anonymity of a VM account is nullified when the VM is not behaving professionally.

We already have a set of rules and guidelines for the VMs to abide by and if they're refusing to do so, that's more than enough reason to revoke their powers to prevent further abuse. VMs need to be moderated as well, not just the community.
 

Wait, emails? How did you enable that option? Mine is greyed out and won't let me receive any.


Only the Members section of your Notification Options allows emails.
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#10 Xellie

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:21 PM

Have to put on my brown pants whenever I disagree with a mod action

 

Scared it's someone I might be friends with or a guildie, so I have to tiptoe around now rather than offhandledly joking about a mod being literally Hitler.

 

Godwin's Law applied.


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#11 hoikarnage

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:22 PM

Have to put on my brown pants whenever I disagree with a mod action

 

Scared it's someone I might be friends with or a guildie, so I have to tiptoe around now rather than offhandledly joking about a mod being literally Hitler.

 

Godwin's Law applied.

 

The secret is to not have any friends.


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#12 Alaska

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:54 PM

I can see the point of having mods be anonymous, but I always preferred the more transparent route. I realize there's an issue of bias and what not, but I really think people should be accountable for their actions/decisions - and I mean the actual player not just their fake mod character. If that makes any sense at all, anyways.


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#13 Xellie

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 05:10 PM

Most of the volunteers here do a decent job as far as I can tell, but I agree it is time for a serious reevaluation. I can't mention any names, but I know at least one of them has gotten old and bitter and clearly does not care to follow the rules except when it suits them. And there are a couple others who don't seem to do anything at all.

 

No offense to those who actually do their job well here, but most mods are only good for a year or two before they develop severe superiority complexes, and there have been definite examples of that lately on the forums.

 

Well it's just was well that all of the mods are new in the RO section except Ralis (who needs to get active in game!) and the former mods aren't mods anymore :p_idea:


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#14 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 05:16 PM

Well I like that they replaced Cinnamod with another person at least. That's a step forward XD


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#15 fuyukikun

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 05:22 PM

Well I like that they replaced Cinnamod with another person at least. That's a step forward XD

dunno abou that. i didnt find any change in writing of cinnamod
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#16 Myzery

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 05:24 PM

To be honest, a few of them are easy to guess.

I think for the most part, the mods that are actually from RO do a stand up job.

 

The only problems I have had are with ones outside our community.

Names Dragon Saga and RO2.

Won't call them out, because it's old news and I don't even know if this thread should exist.


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#17 ZeroTigress

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 06:51 PM

I don't see it screenie pls ;v;


Image is a bit big and I know some people have issues with me posting big pics. This is also the only way to know exactly who deleted your posts and moved your threads. I always have these notifications on to keep an eye on the mods.

I can see the point of having mods be anonymous, but I always preferred the more transparent route. I realize there's an issue of bias and what not, but I really think people should be accountable for their actions/decisions - and I mean the actual player not just their fake mod character. If that makes any sense at all, anyways.


Agreed. Bringing back the transparency that the VM program originally had reinforces the fact that they are VOLUNTEER mods taken from members of the community and not part of WarpPortal's payroll.
 

To be honest, a few of them are easy to guess.


Hence the pointlessness of hiding them behind a VMod account.
 

I don't even know if this thread should exist.


I feel this thread should exist because the issue is that because of the VMod account's complete anonymity they are not assigned to any particular game section and hence feel free to mod ALL sections when they were brought on to monitor certain ones. I liked the program better when members of the community were simply given the volunteer mod title and assigned to certain game sections. If you're going to be moderating a certain game section, at least have some knowledge of said game before moderating ignorantly. No one's going to take you seriously if you moderate a thread without any knowledge of the game itself. You just make yourself and the VMod program look like a joke and you make the CMs look bad for bringing you on as a mod.

Edited by ZeroTigress, 04 April 2015 - 06:58 PM.

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#18 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:02 PM

Quotes from stuff I sent to Oda a few months ago.

 

 

Well I'm sure you've been told or at least hinted at exactly why I did it. *******'s been abusing his mod powers for a very long time now, locking threads arbitrarily, arguing with the community over nothing, letting his posting persona get in the way of actual moderation. Recently he *******, then removed said member's next post and locked a very important discussion thread over it. When I brought up ******, and it was only due to a few other community members voicing their support that he eventually caved and acknowledged the issue, even if he still refused to do anything about it. If you perused the forum for a while you'd see firsthand the terrible, incredibly biased (I'd even say whimsically biased since half the stuff he says contradicts the other stuff) job he's doing.

 

I know you don't care but it's my opinion that VMods should conduct themselves using their original accounts. It's very easy for them to abuse their power and escape the community's ire if they're able to hide behind a mask. Being able to see a VMod's true account would force them to behave more appropriately, perhaps think a bit harder about what they're posting and how it reflects upon you, as the person who gave them mod powers.

 

Not as important, but it also allows the community to judge the worth of a VMod. If, as in *******'s case, someone with less than a few hundred posts becomes a VMod, then we have the right to know.

 

Also, for the love of god please don't give me a template response about reporting the VMod's posts and PMing you about their performance. The community shouldn't have to bear the burden of checking whether your VMods still have their leashes attached. As their appointer, you should be monitoring and auditing their posts and mod actions as they happen.

 

And his reply.

 

 

The mod program exists so the CMs don't have to monitor each and every post on the forums. The report and PM protocols, while a standard answer you've heard me deliver time and time again are the fastest way of letting me know if a moderator is not behaving as they should. I have an extremely limited amount of time that I'm able to spend on the forums due to the other dozen things I have to do on any given day to help the producers keep this game afloat. If people don't even let me know there's a problem or where it's a little difficult to budget the time to be reading each and every post a mod is making. 

 
If I even had a report or PM of "hey the mod's response to this thread is inappropriate" it would give me something more specific than "check the entire post history of the mod" to investigate. 
 
I believe that people always have room to improve and weaknesses that can be unlearned. I will actually take mods by the shoulder and tell them if they could be doing something better, or if there is something they are doing that isn't constructive. 

 

So yeah long story short he doesn't care have time to follow up the mods he himself appointed because he's always so busy. Keep spamming that report button and he might give them a slap on the wrist.

 

Also please note how he totally ignored the other stuff I said. Cherrypicking pls.


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#19 Xellie

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:06 PM

At least you get a reply


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#20 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:07 PM

At least you get a reply

 

Well it was in response to me getting tempbanned for calling out a VMod on their piss poor behaviour, so I spammed him till I did.


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#21 ZeroTigress

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:08 PM

So yeah long story short he doesn't care have time to follow up the mods he himself appointed because he's always so busy. Keep spamming that report button and he might give them a slap on the wrist.
 
Also please note how he totally ignored the other stuff I said. Cherrypicking pls.


So they basically pick people from the community at random, stick a Volunteer Mod label on them, and let the forums run on auto-pilot.

This is very disconcerting.
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#22 Cinquine

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:18 PM

I feel like it works the other way around, too. It is a lot easier to treat a VMod as less of a person when they are just a number. I think it would be better for the community, sure, but also for the mods themselves as well. 


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#23 Inubashiri

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:24 PM

Well I like that they replaced Cinnamod with another person at least. That's a step forward XD

 

what?  not sure what you mean by that.

 

 

So yeah long story short he doesn't care have time to follow up the mods he himself appointed because he's always so busy. Keep spamming that report button and he might give them a slap on the wrist.

 

I think this is a tad overboard, given I work my own full time job and also help him quite a bit during and after that job I can understand the pressure of an 8 hour work day and not getting all the daily duties done plus the 555 PMs he gets.  It'd be a full time job just keeping up with PMs and all forum posts and having done that myself for 5 years it is exhausting.  Not excusing no answer at all but I don't think saying that is really justified.  Spamming will get a response I agree, you have to keep trying, but at least be civilized about it if you must.  I wouldn't wanna listen to someone very closely if they were calling me names and yelling and screaming at me as if I personally was the one who offended. 

 

Lets not forget being a mod is also stressful (I've personally had people issue death threats to me and how they'd rape me if they found me and a whole list of other things you think another human being would never say out loud face to face), given the choice between doing the right thing and the easy thing...its not always easy to do the right thing given X user will jive up a mob mentality and nobody usually takes the moderators side.  I'm not excusing what recently happened as I was also caught up in it and extremely upset that the guidelines were absolutely ignored.  The mods of the day back then all agreed to write a set of a rules for us to police one another so as not to make the whole establishment look stupid and bad and also provide a way of enforcement.  They need amending a bit to be honest but it really just seems with the anon mod system a very small few haven't learned the ropes with it or just blatantly choose their own ideals over that of the institution and I agree that needs to be addressed.  I personally had 12 posts removed in one topic that didn't come close to rule breaking and so did other folks, there is no excuse for using a chainsaw in place of a scalpel.  

 

So they basically pick people from the community at random, stick a Volunteer Mod label on them, and let the forums run on auto-pilot.

This is very disconcerting.

 

Thats not how it was done, I can testify to that.  Game history, post history and random interviews with (in recent years) the established mods as to if they know much about X person in Y game.  I don't know how much more you could do.


Edited by Inubashiri, 04 April 2015 - 07:25 PM.

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#24 Alaska

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:25 PM

I feel like it works the other way around, too. It is a lot easier to treat a VMod as less of a person when they are just a number. I think it would be better for the community, sure, but also for the mods themselves as well. 

 

 I actually really agree with this too - it's sort of a respect thing? :s


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#25 Xellie

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:28 PM

I feel like it works the other way around, too. It is a lot easier to treat a VMod as less of a person when they are just a number. I think it would be better for the community, sure, but also for the mods themselves as well. 

 

The vmod program came about as a result of a bunch of drama, one such drama involved a mod who was getting involved in a thread which appeared to be a conflict of interest (he stated he was just doing things by the book however) and even though it may not have been him being biased, it sure looked that way.

 

After that there was a conflict between this mod and one of the forum members he was in disagreement with and he was pretty much campaigning to get this person banned. They were very aware of it. Posts would get deleted / go missing in to the ether, eventually there was a "that person or me" ultimatum.... it was bad.

 

Now mods having no identities only protects the mods to a certain degree. I feel like it fuels bias claims, not dispel them. Yes, it's easier to get mad at something faceless, that is also a thing. And I'm sure the anonymods have to listen to it and its 100x more hurtful than if it was aimed at their internet persona.

 

I feel the double edged sword of knowing mod identities is maybe better than the backlash that comes with anonymods.

 

Then again, I've modded on other fansites (not RO ones) and I'm pretty stonyfaced when it comes to abusive users vs mods. They can throw tantrums all day and call me every name under the sun and I can handle it (it's much like being a guildleader really!). Other people, maybe not so much. So maybe I'm the wrong person to give an opinion!


Edited by Xellie, 04 April 2015 - 07:30 PM.

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