165 replies to this topic

[KatsuraKujo]

Actually about ms, my cleric manage to get 1k ms, that's without wearing typhoon. Just some gears with max cha ms stats. so i don't really see much of a problem with that. Then again, that's just me. Also there's plenty of choices for better ms stas. Although since mom already said using some max ms stats. I think i can see you only using 1 and counting without buffs? Cuz 1k is if i'm buffed. My value for unbuffed is 785ms. Just helping with my own stats.

 

Btw if you say ms passive, clerics have one i think, when you cast mana shield, you gain 100ms (if lvl 5) but 100ms is not worth wasting 10sp for. Which is why i didn't get it cuz i find it a too small boost to use with that much sp. Pretty worthless.

 

As for Carlos, i would agree to the increasing range of when the flames disappear, but then again, if you do that, healing area would mean that the nerf on flames were almost useless and that sort of gameplay would come back. I'm not sure since i don't want to play that style. (or at least trying to) Maybe increase only to the range of how far the flames can heal, so you can estimate where you run to that's the limit.

 

Again, that's just me

[Bendersmom]

What is the down side to the BC and mage having some mspd?  No one said that.  Would it make a difference for them?

 

And I am not talking about mspd to keep up with raiders.  I would like mspd to be able to keep up with the bourgs and champs maybe.  I think increasing mspd on all muse honor and valor or exhalted gear shoes might work, or maybe the mspd buff could be modified to increase mspd even a bit more on the cleric casting it.  Then BC and mages would not be affected.  It would help in dungeons and PVP and even PVM.  A number of clerics play in def/hp gear (reinforced, chiv) and obviously from other gear, and mana shield is really great for mages and maybe even BC but the FS cleric does not really benefit from it that much.  We have been trying it.  

 

I am not trying to make the FS cleric OP obviously and most of our other comments (increase def, dodge, etc.) have been knocked down.  I am trying to come up with some survivability help without making us OP.  

[carlosrose]

 

As for Carlos, i would agree to the increasing range of when the flames disappear, but then again, if you do that, healing area would mean that the nerf on flames were almost useless and that sort of gameplay would come back. I'm not sure since i don't want to play that style. (or at least trying to) Maybe increase only to the range of how far the flames can heal, so you can estimate where you run to that's the limit.

 

 

Why would an increase on the range of flames to dissapear would make the nerf useless? I mean they still die in 2 aoes, the point would be to set flames far enough from u so that the aoes targeting you wouldnt hit them but you would benefit form the healing range that they got or they would allow a cleric to run in circles around them while being targetted by katars, or champs, and allow them to get healed while running that way it could boost the survival rate for mspeed cleric Just 2 possible examples of how increasing the range on flames to dissapear could change gamplay. If you increase the healing range then they would become pretty op :/ imagine having 2 fs with flames that could summon up to 8 salamanders, now the current healing range is 15m if you increase that would be just too much.. *_*

 

What is the down side to the BC and mage having some mspd?  No one said that.  Would it make a difference for them? To me it wouldnt make a difference, I wouldnt mid that mages and BC were faster, but then again some ppl might cry it would be OP. A possible option to boost the mspeed just on FS would to add a sub passive to for example the healing power one, so per level you would gain x amount of mspeed as well as the actual healing power %, that way only FS would benefit from it and we wouldnt need to learn a new passive.

 

A number of clerics play in def/hp gear (reinforced, chiv) and obviously from other gear, and mana shield is really great for mages and maybe even BC but the FS cleric does not really benefit from it that much.  We have been trying it.  The only purpose I see for mana shield atm is to use it as a temporary boost thx to those passive nevertheless it cannot be use as a reliable source to tank 

[KatsuraKujo]

Why would an increase on the range of flames to dissapear would make the nerf useless? I mean they still die in 2 aoes, the point would be to set flames far enough from u so that the aoes targeting you wouldnt hit them but you would benefit form the healing range that they got or they would allow a cleric to run in circles around them while being targetted by katars, or champs, and allow them to get healed while running that way it could boost the survival rate for mspeed cleric

The point for the nerf of flames the last time was to limit the use of it in pvp arenas, so the gameplay would be more fun with running around instead of just standing in one place. That was the point right? So it you increase the range of it disappearing, then the gameplay of how i was last time would come back, regardless how fast it dies. Imagine if the other team was just a full raider team, and they have no teamwork, how is that not going to render the nerf useless?

 

Just 2 possible examples of how increasing the range on flames to dissapear could change gamplay. If you increase the healing range then they would become pretty op :/ imagine having 2 fs with flames that could summon up to 8 salamanders, now the current healing range is 15m if you increase that would be just too much.. *_*

 

I didn't mention increase the healing range. I mean increase the range it disappears to where the healing radius of the flames are. So you can estimate when/where you run to to kill it.

Mages would only be affected if you put it into muse offensive tab/common tab. The extra ms would benefit the mages that focus on wind type which has a passive that allows them to run faster and dodge. Further increase the ms for them means more dodge for them as a defence mechanic. It can be good or bad depending on how the person builds it as well as how much you are saying here.

 

BC on the other hand, with the right gears, is already quite fast. I mean, i can run 1k .-. so if BC gain more, same thing, they gain a little more dodge to their tankiness. Now i'm not sure how tanky a BC can get, but they will increase a little as to what they have now + with the ms passive from casting mana shield (if they get it that is)

 

Also, pvm wise, my fs can survive just fine. A little tanky if you're doing the right thing at the right time. Bad if you're not focusing on wth you're doing.

Pvp wise, well i can keep up with champs, raiders... not so much. They run nearly at 1.4k, where as i can only do 1k.

 

This is all based on my only and solely on my own opinion.

[carlosrose]

The point for the nerf of flames the last time was to limit the use of it in pvp arenas, so the gameplay would be more fun with running around instead of just standing in one place. That was the point right? So it you increase the range of it disappearing, then the gameplay of how i was last time would come back, regardless how fast it dies. Imagine if the other team was just a full raider team, and they have no teamwork, how is that not going to render the nerf useless?

 

The point behind increasing the flames range is so the cleric can actually move... One of the reason y clerics that use summons just stay at a single spot is bcoz if they move they dissapear -.-" If you increase the range then the cleric will actually be able to move around therefore that problem of clerics staying on a single spot will vanish (i mean for good clerics there will always be the ones that spam heal on xtal and are too scare to move away from xtal).

 

And there is no way to predict if your team will have teamwork or not, or who will be ur teammates unless you make a group, so that should not be used to determine whether or not summons could be op or not. If your enemy doesnt know how to play or have no idea how to defeat an enemy then is their problem.

[LunaXavier]

A full raider team rarely happens, and there's still a way they can pull over the game with 2-3 flame fs if played correctly. This post is discussing over the general situations, so better not bring in special cases like what if you have full raider team or stuffs like that. It can happen since people like to play raiders but I believe its not gonna worth anything to discuss. Since to counter the Flame FS, an aoe is necessary. So it makes sense if a full raider team can lose to a group with flame FS.

[Bendersmom]

I think there are some possibilities to make the FS cleric be the only one that benefits from mspd like as said put it in combination with a buff or heal.  I think of all of the classes it would definitely benefit the FS cleric but not make them OP.  It would give us the ability to keep up with our group and not get picked off from the back or when trying to get back to your group after you die.  We all know the FS cleric will be focused and die at some point during the PVP games, and it would help us get back to the group faster.  

 

As to flames, I believe, as said, that they were "nerfed" some so that clerics and the group don't completely rely on them to survive and so that maybe clerics actually play the cleric instead of just sitting and healing in a pile of clerics and flames.  Personally I rarely use them in PVP games because I am too busy running around healing or giving buffs.  But I know some really like them.  I don't think the changes made them bad.

[KatsuraKujo]

Either way its a situation. Even if it is a special one. The best thing i can think of to accommodate what you are saying about the range of the flames is if you make a sort of aura of healing around the flames where it is visible. Which is also the limit of the FS cleric's running range to when the flame dies. So it is actual visible to where you can run to. I'm sticking to this suggestion. If you don't like it then its too bad we can't agree.

 

@mom you might need to think deeper into how the mechanic can be applied. Cuz me imagining it, it would "accidently" benefit other classes as well with that ms buff on heals, or buffs. 

[LunaXavier]

I think there are some possibilities to make the FS cleric be the only one that benefits from mspd like as said put it in combination with a buff or heal.  I think of all of the classes it would definitely benefit the FS cleric but not make them OP.  It would give us the ability to keep up with our group and not get picked off from the back or when trying to get back to your group after you die.  We all know the FS cleric will be focused and die at some point during the PVP games, and it would help us get back to the group faster.  

Do you even read what i said about making luminous gears into something useful for clerics? Adding another movement speed passives for clerics wont help, clerics are already facing insufficient sp problems. Not many even bother to invest into this new skill mana shield force to get mspd. Just think about it.

[Feuer]

Tossing this in here, giving the Cleric movespeed/dodge in a common/support tree = issues possibly. I have tested my mage on some movespeed/dodge gear and it is boss level. Easily 2k movespeed and about 3k dodge with just a few pieces. If you actually got hardcore for the stats though, 2.5k+ move speed and 4k dodge are possible, and the rest of your focus is in the INT for Max MP [Shields] Accuracy, Attack Power. As far as the set up, there was plenty of room to add some other things, but you got the point. 

 

Not really up for commenting late game atm, I still need to catch up some, but low level clericing is a pain in the arse 100%. There are way's to ease it up a bit like~

Only put 1 sp into your buffs first.

The staff could make it so it only takes level 1 or 2 of a heal before it unlocks the next one, instead of the current skill level 3.

Place the heal power passive in the support tree instead of the cleric tree

and my personal favorite idea. Change 'Enchanted" Wand weapons from mp consume + max mp, to mp consume + heal power. 

 

well, anyway, that's what i would do for low level clerics. 

[MonnaLise]

I just played a fs cleric recently so i will give my opinion. This is based on my pvp experience ( i dont pvm much)


*Buffs make a big impact in games (obvious even when i was still playing other class)
*a hot target. Like i dont know where that 'clerics die last' in a team came from esp when im a lone cleric in team (maybe thats just for pro players)
*too many skills to choose from and its so confusing (esp passives)
*i didnt get mana shield. Just a waste of mana and sp. Mana shield is too weak

[angeltje]

Mana shield did help me survive often tho

 

helped me in AA when i did it, in pvp it gives me time to survive mostly.

also in pvm lots.

 

 

Edited by angeltje, 22 June 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[KatsuraKujo]

Mana shield is a good defence mechanism for FS imo. It is only good because it gives that stacks that gives a lot of block rate. If mixed with dex gears, then it is much better. Although you don't block much, but it is very helpful to use it. I could survive longer in AA match i played like a month ago with mana shield.

[iMatt]

Manashield might be good in PvM, in PvP the manashield runs out of steam way to quickly on cleric - the blockrate etc might be a nice idea, the influence is just way too small to make it actually work properly as survival mechanic.

 

Please add to your posts where it works good for you. Do you mainly use it in PvM or did you make good experience with a manashield cleric in PvP?

[Filipito98]

Buffs?  Too strong or ok as is?

Even with or without full charms i think the buffs are okey, not sure cuz i didn't tested the buffs without full charm, but if is like buff pots then is enought, but anyway, the only buff that isnt for me is the aspd one.

 

 

Heals?  Too strong or ok as is?

Depends the build, full charm? high heal power, since i don't play pvp i dont know if are strong or not (about heals will be also in survivability.

 

Survivability?

PvP with atm build, too weak, die too fast because build focus more in charm stat due buffs (disadvantage in having strong buffs for players), even if heal power is high, the def isnt enought, well atually is not about def but maybe cleric build, if cleric would be well builded and geared, a cleric with weak buffs could survive twice more and help team members then a full charm one and rest points in int.

 

Is the damage output too high right now?

even if cleric def is low, ofc, damage output is too high for all classes, is like the formula is broke or something, with the new skills, auto attacks classes such Bourgeois can kill a player in a few hits (after 10 hits bourg is like in berzerk mode). soo yeah damage output is broke

 

Should we be able to survive without 4 fires?

4 fires o.o? *confuse*

 

How many hits does it take from say a scout to kill you in game arenas?  What build do you have (defense, mspeed, high hp, etc.)

As i said i dont do pvp xD, but i did once some CD, could tank with the charm stat (old old old time) a mage due high m.def but my team had more clerics wich made the other team having a huge disadvantage, since now i dont do pvp soo yeah.

 

PVM 

How is the FS cleric for leveling?

Bored, staying in a spot even with a bot program or not, spamming heals and not doing any strategy, can be fast but not fun.

But how a cleric can lvl up? only with party, a cleric should in the start training with a party, that's what makes a cleric have strategy and etc, but also a party should do strategies. Having a party with 5 or 6 members anleast one cleric wile hunting bosses due quests or etc is like u having fun with friends, not spamming in one spot for 24 hours just for lvl up.

 

How is the full support cleric doing in solo mode for quests?

As i said a cleric works better in a party, but for solo mode, should have them summons, also magic skill type works, should have strategy. Might take times but anleast get something instead nothing

 

The FS cleric in dungeons?

Depends cleric build, but due def scale most of classes are like weak, a knight cant tank smoothly mummy/mammy queen, Ulverick aoe/stun too op

about SoD nothing to say, that's a teamwork DG, not a single player one, soo or everyone works as a team or it was just a waste of GA energy.

Prision - since the last time i did, too mutch lag, dunno why, even others classes cant do DG smoothly, is like DG is broke (like formula), screen bugs, etc, due this bugs/lag the DG can give mutch negative mood to players (rage/flame)

 

Suggestion

honestly i give up in giving suggestions for clerics, everyone just disagree with everything i say, even if is a feedback or no

why do they disagree?

- they dont want to regret them billions zulies wasted in charm sets.

- some dont read, or just leave it like a thrash topic (thrash i mean like moving the topic to thrash)

- everyone just care about themselves instead look around and see what happening (like in pvp, everyone just care about pvp leaving pvm behind)

now my questions to those are

- about first one (billions zullies), do u guys want to survive more and be happy that u guys can survive more in PvP or keeping regret cuz those dam sets (that i dont even care for farm it, what i have is enought, lucky my cleric is just for buffs)?

 

atually i just have that question.

i've speaked with a friend yesterday telling how's cleric stats in this game, he loled alots, not only cleric but also damage output and etc. that's what made me give up in the suggestions for clerics, and everything. Idc if u guys dont care about me or other thing.

The life of this game is just nerf, that's what players love more right?

Edited by Filipito98, 22 June 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[KatsuraKujo]

Manashield as i said, works good for both sides of the game for me. PvM and PvP.

Being that i only have about 6k def compared to others, and i manage to survive an all out attack with a team which also has 2 fs (which is the same as the team i am in) with about 2-3 katars hitting me.

 

Teamwork helped a lot, and also the manashield with the block rate passive.

 

Personally i only use the manashield for 1 purpose. For the block rate increase in mystic safeguard. I agree to the fact that manashield runs out fast, but the block it gives last 10 secs, allowing you to block more even if the amount isn't as big as knights, but it is definitely decent enough for survival if played right.

 

@filip honestly saying, i can't understand what you're trying to point out. Your suggestion isn't even a suggestion, its filled with questions that i'm not even sure if i should answer or not. The rest are kinda, well based on your perspective so i can't really comment anything to change how you see it. Maybe a dg with me can help you change it, or a AA match with some other friends together.

Edited by KatsuraKujo, 22 June 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[kwayan19]

Manashield is good if you are with other clerics in your group... but when you are SOLOING its crap.. you wont have time to use it as frequently because you are too busy healing people.. and the long animation makes it even more undesirable.. it takes 2 to 3 secs for that jumping animation.. its better to invest 15 sp to somehing better... the increased block rate isnt really that appealing too..

[Filipito98]

Manashield as i said, works good for both sides of the game for me. PvM and PvP.
Being that i only have about 6k def compared to others, and i manage to survive an all out attack with a team which also has 2 fs (which is the same as the team i am in) with about 2-3 katars hitting me.
 
Teamwork helped a lot, and also the manashield with the block rate passive.
 
Personally i only use the manashield for 1 purpose. For the block rate increase in mystic safeguard. I agree to the fact that manashield runs out fast, but the block it gives last 10 secs, allowing you to block more even if the amount isn't as big as knights, but it is definitely decent enough for survival if played right.
 
@filip honestly saying, i can't understand what you're trying to point out. Your suggestion isn't even a suggestion, its filled with questions that i'm not even sure if i should answer or not. The rest are kinda, well based on your perspective so i can't really comment anything to change how you see it. Maybe a dg with me can help you change it, or a AA match with some other friends together.

Well DG might can but AA isnt my style as cleric.
I will try to explain one of my old suggestions (or maybe do a question).
I do suggested making heal power only as intellect stat and letting buffs in charm, or doing that charm thing i talked about. (Checking the max charm that can get with a set and make that charm the +65 buffs).
But yeah even feedbacks was lil, guess how was those feedbacks,
none of them even agreed with heal power cuz them billions sets wasted in charm sets (cuz buffs). But my suggestion it wasnt not only for a cleric survive more but also there be different type of stats builds, not just charm and rest in int. What's the point in having a class that just have one stat build wile others have 2/3 stats builds or more? Same to skills.
I saw somewere that a group could kill in CD a team with cleric and they didnt had any cleric i guess and they used buff pots, with that we can see buff pots is enought for pvp. Making maybe cleric can survive without many points in buffs but yes in them def (soo they can hang more time and heal more them team).
That was one of the suggestions but even the feedback was just cause them charm sets more nthing. That's what im talking about, they just think in themselves instead look around and see what's happening.

[kwayan19]

Imo.. they should lower the current damage output and see how clerics survive in AA especially if they solo.. also scale down the stat buffs its too strong.... a team with only dex buff can wreck a team with an fs. And honestly im enjoying games with both sid3s having just plain cleric buffs... the fights were longer and the points are high... but when there are stat buffer fights last for like 2 to 5 secs.

I know people with statbuffers will hate this

[CharasX]

I really don't understand clerics whining so much about their survivability.... clerics are quite tanky! and if you complain so much about those critical locks... why don't you pump your crit and sens stats then!... ahhhh ye, because you get charm stats to boost your heals.... and 400 charm on your build for max buffs.... guess what! you cannot have everything.

 

As for the whole buff subject... Did you happen to play AA without a single buff on both side.... happened to me a couple of time... most balanced and fun fights ever... enough said ;p

[LunaXavier]

I really don't understand clerics whining so much about their survivability.... clerics are quite tanky! and if you complain so much about those critical locks... why don't you pump your crit and sens stats then!... ahhhh ye, because you get charm stats to boost your heals.... and 400 charm on your build for max buffs.... guess what! you cannot have everything.

 

As for the whole buff subject... Did you happen to play AA without a single buff on both side.... happened to me a couple of time... most balanced and fun fights ever... enough said ;p

Are you a full time FS player? How well do u understand about a cleric class? Have you ever played AA with cleric to discuss on this topic? How often do you play?  Its not all about getting charm to get high heals and buffs. This isn't a section for a raider.

Edited by LunaXavier, 23 June 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[CharasX]

Are you a full time FS player? How well do u understand about a cleric class? Have you ever played AA with cleric to discuss on this topic? How often do you play?  Its not all about getting charm to get high heals and buffs. This isn't a section for a raider.

 

Ye right, so you think you could possibly achieve on getting the game more balanced by just asking main clerics about clerics.... main mages about mages... main champs about champs... etc

 

#facepalm#

[Filipito98]

Ye right, so you think you could possibly achieve on getting the game more balanced by just asking main clerics about clerics.... main mages about mages... main champs about champs... etc

 

#facepalm#

him post atually made me sad, and made me want to say this, i bet 100% if heal power was in INT or even not, a cleric with them own build vs a cleric with charm + int build (full charm and rest in int) would certain win. even if cleric have buffs, is cleric forced to learn those buffs for pvp?

 

about him post, and replying to him, dude isnt need to main cleric 100% for talk in this topic. we all know clerics just have one build. since they lost the ability for use shield most of clerics says is weak ofc, but is because the shield? i dont think soo.

a normal player can talk in this topic wen he wants, there's no need someone wich is main cleric for talk in this topic, also he gave him opinion, we all gave opinions, and we all have different opinion.

btw atually it is, without charm u cant get high heals and high buffs ._. so the stat might be a problem for cleric in my opinion.

[LunaXavier]

Ye right, so you think you could possibly achieve on getting the game more balanced by just asking main clerics about clerics.... main mages about mages... main champs about champs... etc

 

#facepalm#

Would be more balanced if the one that is discussing play every class and understands the pros and cons of each and every class. Not from a single biased class player

[CharasX]

Would be more balanced if the one that is discussing play every class and understands the pros and cons of each and every class. Not from a single biased class player

 

You would have to play a good 15 years across 10+ mmos to have a larger view than I can have on what balancing means. You are welcomed to read my detailed suggestion wich should still be in the first pages of this topic.

 

You do not know me.