143 replies to this topic

[LucieFear]

So what's really going on here? I have my opinion I'd like to share and see if anyone else agree's.

 

From what I can tell, people are upset that some boosters are significantly stronger than buffs. This is true, and I don't see anyone really arguing that point.

What I see are people arguing about the tolerance of them being used in a zone? This to me doesn't make sense at all. 

 

I mean, you're all arguing about trivialities and not the source of the discrepancy. The point is that they're strong.

The other point is that they're expensive. I see a lot of people who are very wealthy in game just shrugging their shoulders and acting like it's not a big deal. That's not a fair vantage point. These wealthy people barely notice a scratch in their wallets when they buy boosters for such high rates. 

 

I know pointing 'a finger' at the wealthy would just result in statements like "you're just mad cause you're not rich", and part of that statement is correct. I'm not rich, and I don't plan to waste my life trying to earn a wealth of pixels. That being said, I do work very hard for the few things I've managed to earn, so I'm doing pretty good for myself.

 

And I think that's what it should really take. You should have to work fairly hard to get them. But just saying 'fairly hard' is ambiguous. What I mean by it is that if you only log in to play for maybe 1-2 hours a day a few days a week, you probably shouldn't be able to afford using boosters regularly. But you should still be able to afford them.

 

So really it's just the two problems. They're expensive enough that only the wealthy can regularly use them, and they're so strong that it's causing an imbalance and griefing the gamers who encounter it. Be it in the Training Grounds, or the past areas, like Sikuku Ruins, and Desert of the Dead before that. And if you went back far enough, JCF + LCF suffered from it as well. 

 

Really my point is, only 1 of the problem needs to be fixed in order to bring back a balance.

You can either take away the vast gap in power potential in boosters, or simply make them more affordable so that they're commonly available with some effort. Like Lisent U's are, if you catch my comparison correctly. 

 

Sorry if that seems long, but this does seem to be a long standing problem and persist in appearing whenever mechanics are changed. 

[borgahutt]

Leonis created this thread to get feedback on whether or not he should implement the system he has already prepared to remove Boosters/Item Mall items (such as infinite HP jellys/stews) from TG. So far there are many supporters and many players still asking why change it? But I really do not see any logical arguments of why this shouldn't be changed.


It actually is relevant if you spend the time reading the thread.

The argument isn't that TG is an open place to do whatever you please, it's that boosters are disallowing everyone a fair chance to fight in TG because of boosters. As I and others have stated before plenty of times, boosters essentially limit the pvp in TG to Raiders and Scouts because 1) their damage becomes too high 2) they have stealth. This is a problem because clerics are unable to survive meaning no other classes can survive because they can't get healed in wars. Why would anyone support pvp like this? It's not good for the game. It's not good for new players to see and experience this. They work very hard leveling new characters and getting gear just to find out they can't compete in TG because they are not the right class and also they have to purchase boosters to compete.

You may say TG is not a big deal, but really it is in terms of fun in Rose Online. It has always been a huge part of Pvp, even when Union Wars was around, but I'm assuming you either don't do PVP or you're a newer player. It's now even more important because of the lack of population, AA's aren't always able to get the 30 player requirement to do PVP and CD is too laggy, meaning TG is the only place players go to pvp, 1v1, war, etc... but like I said, this is all ruined by Boosters.

Boosters are claimed to be "cheap" but also claimed to be a huge source of income for the game? That doesn't even make sense. Rose shouldn't have a pay to kill players temporarily system.

1) I personally can handle fights with boosters because I am a raider but I do not boost (not because I can't afford it because I can) but because it isn't a fair form of PVP and it's not fair for the game or community to have this kind of system.

2) I'm sorry me and plenty of other supports are trying to improve the quality of the game by returning it to it's old meta of PVP.

3) Please read through the thread before making claims that I and others have explained before.

Not true...

Just cause you boost don't mean you would win at pvp in tg, that's rubbish haha

And I don't know what clerics you've seen in tg but they don't drop by one raider...

[VisitorX]

Not true...

Just cause you boost don't mean you would win at pvp in tg, that's rubbish haha

And I don't know what clerics you've seen in tg but they don't drop by one raider...

I actually don't see any clerics in TG anymore because they do get dropped by the scouts/raiders on boosters in one stun (2 or more people then they don't even have to stun). No clerics = no other classes in TG because they can't survive in wars.

[helloitsme]

Clerics are crap even without boosters and just stat buffers they drop fast

[Banrukai]

It doesn't take time and effort to buy boosters that give you even more stats than stat buffers can give you even at max charm.

Clerics on boosters still die in 2 seconds to any boosted damage character.

I specifically left out boosters, because i was not comparing them to clerics/stat buffers. I just found the comparison between clerics and stat buffers amusing.

Of course boosters are expensive, because they will give a large advantage. So people use them in PvP because of this reason.

As for the idea of removing it, i agree that it wouldn't be a bad idea. But then you would have to remove it in all PvP zones to achieve the "fairness" part. Or only allow it to be used vs monsters.

[KatsuraKujo]

As for the idea of removing it, i agree that it wouldn't be a bad idea. But then you would have to remove it in all PvP zones to achieve the "fairness" part. Or only allow it to be used vs monsters.

This was exactly what i was saying back at the older thread, but noone wants to agree to it >.>

*salute banrukai*

[VisitorX]

I'm not sure of what else needs to be said. We'll have to wait and see what Leonis thinks.

 

Maybe we could have a poll for 

 

Change

Don't Change

Indifferent

[borgahutt]

I doubt they would get changed, what's the point of having them in game if you can't have a free for all area where they can be used , they are not limited to be only used by people who buy item mall - they can be bought with Zulie . So anyone can use them if they want, if not they don't have to,

I play my main as a Cleric and I've been in big wars and managed to survive the whole wave - just on normal buffs so it's possible , you just gotta change your style of play for tg

But with High damage now most people drop when hanged by loads

[pdfisher]

A friend and I were discussing this, and I thought he came up with nice compromise. Why not create a second area near Junon Polis for PvP. One could be for those that want to use boosters, the second would be for those that don't want any IM items used.

[carlosrose]

I doubt they would get changed, what's the point of having them in game if you can't have a free for all area where they can be used , they are not limited to be only used by people who buy item mall - they can be bought with Zulie . So anyone can use them if they want, if not they don't have to,

I play my main as a Cleric and I've been in big wars and managed to survive the whole wave - just on normal buffs so it's possible , you just gotta change your style of play for tg

But with High damage now most people drop when hanged by loads

 

The fact that boosters are the only item on the game that havent been readjusted to the new damage formula is what makes them so OP, everything else was changed. The fact that with boosters u can drop players dead in 2 hits is what drives all the discussion. A readjustment of their values so it goes accordingly with the new damage formula should be taken into consideration.

 

And as a matter of fact no cleric on cleric buffs (or any other char) can survive a player on full boosters (hawker, soldier , dealer or muse), that you were able to survive on a "big war" doesnt mean it's a reliable case, or even how big of an exageration you are making.

 

Booster should be indeed better than cleric buffs, one thing is having something that is a bit better (such as agility boost, hp/mp boost or even def/mdef boost), and another thing is to offer an item 5x times stronger than the actual buff (10% damage enhance from cleric VS 50% damage enhance from booster). IMO all boosters are balanced except for: sigil, damage booster and aruas.

[LucieFear]

@pdfisher;

 

Technically, people who don't want boosters but want to pvp go to Arena games? 

[borgahutt]

The fact that boosters are the only item on the game that havent been readjusted to the new damage formula is what makes them so OP, everything else was changed. The fact that with boosters u can drop players dead in 2 hits is what drives all the discussion. A readjustment of their values so it goes accordingly with the new damage formula should be taken into consideration.

 

And as a matter of fact no cleric on cleric buffs (or any other char) can survive a player on full boosters (hawker, soldier , dealer or muse), that you were able to survive on a "big war" doesnt mean it's a reliable case, or even how big of an exageration you are making.

 

Booster should be indeed better than cleric buffs, one thing is having something that is a bit better (such as agility boost, hp/mp boost or even def/mdef boost), and another thing is to offer an item 5x times stronger than the actual buff (10% damage enhance from cleric VS 50% damage enhance from booster). IMO all boosters are balanced except for: sigil, damage booster and aruas.

 

if a cleric cannot take 1 class on boosters then there is something going wrong...

 

yes i believe that damage booster is way too OP - 20% would be fine but other than that its just people moaning about 1 place that is free for all...

 

its not like these are all allowed in AA like they used to

[VisitorX]

I doubt they would get changed, what's the point of having them in game if you can't have a free for all area where they can be used , they are not limited to be only used by people who buy item mall - they can be bought with Zulie . So anyone can use them if they want, if not they don't have to,

I play my main as a Cleric and I've been in big wars and managed to survive the whole wave - just on normal buffs so it's possible , you just gotta change your style of play for tg

But with High damage now most people drop when hanged by loads

 

Your cleric did not survive in a war with other players on boosters. I'll make sure to booster up and kill you the next time I see you in TG to prove a point.

 

@pdfisher;

 

Technically, people who don't want boosters but want to pvp go to Arena games? 

 

AA's aren't always available (because of lack of population)

You can't specifically war certain clans in AA

TG is a huge part of the PVP in this game so just because AA exists doesn't mean you should overlook how broken boosters are in TG.

 

 

--

 

@ slowbob Splitting the lack of population in another PVP zone in Junon does not seem like a good idea (at the moment)

 

---

 

1) Yes damage is too high

2) Boosters makes it even higher

3) Easy fix? Remove boosters

4) Better fix? Remove boosters and fix damage

5) People are completely missing the point of why boosters should be gone. Some select comments keep saying "tg is a free to play zone blah blah blah" but TG is a huge part of PVP in this game because AA is not always available. Boosters hinder the pvp in this game by making some classes WAY TOO STRONG making it so Clerics and other non-stealth classes cannot survive at all. The pvp is stale and needs to return how Rose used to be in TG, clan vs clan with all classes vs all classes. Where are the dealers in TG? Where are the muses? All I see are tanky knights and stealth raiders/scouts. Mages are used to debuff/troll people. Bourgs/Artisans are non-existent. Clerics? lolz. Champions are in there a little but they are a joke compared to the scouts and raiders.

[LucieFear]

Well I mean if you SPECIFICALLY wanted to war a clan on equal terms, wouldn't you just come to an agreement about not using boosters and use like DoD? I mean, it's empty so there wouldn't be interference? 

[pdfisher]

@pdfisher;

 

Technically, people who don't want boosters but want to pvp go to Arena games? 

 

The Game Arena games don't always go, and perhaps they just want to do a 1 vs 1, or test a build.

 

Well I mean if you SPECIFICALLY wanted to war a clan on equal terms, wouldn't you just come to an agreement about not using boosters and use like DoD? I mean, it's empty so there wouldn't be interference? 

 

Sure, but let's face it, TG is a lot closer. If they would create an alternative TG, then you could just go there instead of running all the out to DoD. I had actually suggested DoD myself. As you say, it is empty now, and it makes a great place to test builds and such, but it seems there is this little matter of convenience.....

[LucieFear]

Laziness is a poor excuse. 

[VisitorX]

You are missing the big picture LucieFear and I'm assuming it's because you don't go into TG to pvp.

 

The wars and fighting in general would be much better without boosters. Organized or not, all classes would go into TG and pvp for fun.

[thetrangdamvn]

I think you should stop here already, so do your assumptions.
Someone close this thread please.

[VisitorX]

I think you should stop here already, so do your assumptions.
Someone close this thread please.

Well that doesn't seem like a very logical comment with anything you can gather to help reach a resolution that this thread is trying to find (created by Leonis btw)

Ask yourself do you enjoy the pvp meta TG has right now? Stealth classes and Knights only with infinite event/IM pots/boosters?

Or

Would you like the pvp that would come with the removal of these items? Would it be such a bad thing to allow more players with different classes to be able to enjoy TG as it was originally intended? (Because boosters and IM pots were not always in this game, as far as I can remember the hardest things to get were Arua's blessing and they were pretty expensive back in the day).

Don't keep saying:
-It's TG blah blah blah fun and uncensored because it's not fair to all classes.
-Boosters aren't even expensive and everyone can buy them for zulie because boosters limit the pvp to a select overpowered jobs in TG, and it's also pay to win (it offers additional stats vs regular buffs in game)

What I can collect from this thread so far is we can do a few different things:

1) ignore everything and leave as is

2) do what Leonis suggested and remove IM items from TG (boosters and pots)

3) fix the damage formula to revolve around boosters and still allow IM infinite health pots

4) add a 2nd zone in Junon that is like #2

5) change boosters to = the same as max charm cleric/stat buffer buffs to make it somewhat more fair

What would you vote for? Any input so far on what you think Leonis?

In my opinion TG should be a direct offspring of what CD/AA offers for people to TRAIN in the same environment as they would be fighting for score/points in. This would include the removal of all boosters and pots besides Red Pots. I would like to add that TG should still allow the use of HP foods though as it can be annoying to die too quickly or have to regenerate your HP by sitting down.

One note I would like to add is Matt and I agreed buffers should be allowed to buff in the intermediate zone in between Junon and TG.

Edited by VisitorX, 28 June 2015 - 05:00 PM.

[IAfjiBa]

I haven't read alot in this topic and I just wanna say my part.

 

Why not create two PVP arenas close to Junon? One PVP arena that allowes you to use boosters/IM food and ''normal'' food/buffs. The other PVP arena doesn't allow any Item mall boosters/food. Just ''normal'' food/buffs.

[angeltje]

I haven't read alot in this topic and I just wanna say my part.

 

Why not create two PVP arenas close to Junon? One PVP arena that allowes you to use boosters/IM food and ''normal'' food/buffs. The other PVP arena doesn't allow any Item mall boosters/food. Just ''normal'' food/buffs.

 

sweety this already been mentioned by pam but great idea.

 

 

But maybe just give an option at Gamp that you can enter a separate field but one just to practice so no boosters ect at all.

And one for wars also without that. Last but least one option called free for all in which everything is allowed?

All options will make you go to TG at some point but you just cant see the people using the different options?

In war/practice option it will go like Leonis proposed to make it happen but you can go inside with buffers and let them stay inside the waiting room to buff. While the Free for all option is just like how TG works now. This is what i think after everything i did read

Edited by angeltje, 29 June 2015 - 03:12 AM.

[pdfisher]

sweety this already been said by pam

 

 

Maybe just give an option at Gamp that you can enter a separate field but one just to practice so no boosters ect at all.

And one for wars also without that. Last but least one option called free for all in which everything is allowed?

All options will make you go to TG at some point but you just cant see the people using the different options?

In war/practice option it will go like Leonis proposed to make it happen but you can go inside with buffers and let them stay inside the waiting room to buff. While the Free for all option is just like how TG works now. This is what i think after everything i did read

 

 

I haven't read alot in this topic and I just wanna say my part.

 

Why not create two PVP arenas close to Junon? One PVP arena that allowes you to use boosters/IM food and ''normal'' food/buffs. The other PVP arena doesn't allow any Item mall boosters/food. Just ''normal'' food/buffs.

 

For the record, I did give Buffiies the credit for this idea, since it was his. <3

[helloitsme]

Id rather let them work 8n BAor AA improvements than this crap.. not everyone goes to tg.. 

[VisitorX]

Id rather let them work 8n BAor AA improvements than this crap.. not everyone goes to tg..

It's already prepared to be implemented.

[carlosrose]

It's already prepared to be implemented.

 

Before anything is implemented, they should reopen pegasus (now that data has been merged and the draconis players can give it a go...) so the arti players can actually test out those skills and give their opinion on them, and we could avoid those constant nerfs right after anything is implemented due to lack of testing....

 

And the same goes for that "tg stage or w.e" before anything is implemented on the real server, have it a go on pegasus could avoid unecesary problems, and looking back I cannot think of any update where everything went smoothly...

Edited by carlosrose, 29 June 2015 - 02:21 PM.