143 replies to this topic

[iMatt]

It's already prepared to be implemented.

 

How you know?

[VisitorX]

Soooo, here is something to think about in regarding with "disabling" boosters from the Training Grounds.

 

First, there is nothing to gain within the Training Grounds. No honor. No items. It is purely for personal boasting, gloating, and ego stroaking.

 

Aside from that, if you want us to make it fair, like we do for the PvP matches in the Game Arena, we would need to add a "staging area" just like for the Game Arena matches. Where upon entering, all your buffs are cleared forcibly, and you cannot use any Item Mall items. Then, you can choose to teleport to the Training Grounds, clear of any Item Mall influences.

 

If this is something the community wishes for, we can probably get it setup for next week, since we already have the structure of how that works done.

 

What I don't understand is why there's so much attention, pressure, stress, issue, with a PvP zone you have literally zero to gain from in-game. It's a practice zone, so you can play, test things out, and and the sort. There's nothing official, no ranks, nothing that you get to show for being there other than notoriety within the community.

 

But I digress, if the community wants it to be setup like the PvP GA Matches, we'll set it to task.

 

 

How you know?

 

Although it may not be fully "prepared", the structure is complete and he said it could be done/added within a week, as in it wouldn't take that much time at all.

 

Pretty bummed it probably won't be added this upcoming week though because AA has been sitting at less than 20 people in queue for hours and hours. Seems like the only time you can actually pvp is very very late NA Time, around midnight - 8 AM.

Edited by VisitorX, 29 June 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[borgahutt]

Your cleric did not survive in a war with other players on boosters. I'll make sure to booster up and kill you the next time I see you in TG to prove a point.


AA's aren't always available (because of lack of population)
You can't specifically war certain clans in AA
TG is a huge part of the PVP in this game so just because AA exists doesn't mean you should overlook how broken boosters are in TG.


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@ slowbob Splitting the lack of population in another PVP zone in Junon does not seem like a good idea (at the moment)

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1) Yes damage is too high
2) Boosters makes it even higher
3) Easy fix? Remove boosters
4) Better fix? Remove boosters and fix damage
5) People are completely missing the point of why boosters should be gone. Some select comments keep saying "tg is a free to play zone blah blah blah" but TG is a huge part of PVP in this game because AA is not always available. Boosters hinder the pvp in this game by making some classes WAY TOO STRONG making it so Clerics and other non-stealth classes cannot survive at all. The pvp is stale and needs to return how Rose used to be in TG, clan vs clan with all classes vs all classes. Where are the dealers in TG? Where are the muses? All I see are tanky knights and stealth raiders/scouts. Mages are used to debuff/troll people. Bourgs/Artisans are non-existent. Clerics? lolz. Champions are in there a little but they

Feel free to try it out, if you drop from one raider... That's crazy

[VisitorX]

Feel free to try it out, if you drop from one raider... That's crazy

I can already solo a cleric with only stat buffs (although not in 1 stun). The extra 40% damage boost and other boosters will only help me drop them faster.

[Banrukai]

So here is an idea.

Training Grounds should be as the name says, for training. There will be two options available at Gamp.

1. Enter Training Grounds ( Level Restriction, Item/Buff Restriction )

2. Enter Training Grounds ( Free for All )

OPTION #1

You can enter this training groung from any level ( 1 ~ 2xx ). Upon entering, everyone will be staged in a spawn area where they can prepare for battle. All buffs ( Self Buffs, Cleric Buffs, Stat Buffs ) / Item buffs ( boosters ) will be removed. Also, all use of Item Mall/Event consumables is prohibited ( Boosters, Food ). You can only use food and items specific to your level. Once you leave this zone, you will have a protection buff to negate all damage/ debuffs for a duration ( 30 Sec ~ 1 Minute ). You will also be unable to engage in combat while this protection buff is active. This was done in the past, and was abused by mages to debuff people. Now this would not be an issues.

Once you are in this training ground there is a level restriction between all the players. You are only able to engage in combat with someone less than, or greater than 10 levels of you. Debuffs, and any other skills also can't affect any player outside this level restriction range. This is to prevent a high level from abusing low level players, or a low level annoying a high level by stunning them or something. Also, you can only party with, and buff other people within this level range. This is to make it fair environment between the two people fighting each other.

Next, once a battle between two players is initiated, other players can't attack them. This is to prevent interruptions. ( This part of the idea can be added or not, it has room for abuse ). Of course another player can quickly attack and make it so the battle is interrupted.

Also, once two players are engaged in combat, and either of them wins, then they both gain the protection buff. The same buff from when you enter the Training Grounds. The duration will be the same ( 30 sec ~ 1 min ). To add more to this part of the idea, you can party with people to create a 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 match, etc. But in order to initiate combat, both sides must be equal. This will allow players to train in different situations, as well as to see how different classes work together with each other.

For example: Muse, Soldier vs Muse, Muse. Or Soldier, Soldier vs Dealer, Hawker.

OPTION # 2

Enter Training Grounds ( Free for All ). This will be exactly how training grounds is right now. Or it can be removed completely.

Edited by Banrukai, 04 July 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[iMatt]

Can t wait em delaying normal content to program that stuff

 

Edit: If you can't handle TG don't enter it, easy as that. I want to be able to kill who I want in PvP Areas and not being grounded by any weird rules

Edited by iMatt, 02 July 2015 - 01:16 PM.

[VisitorX]

Can t wait em delaying normal content to program that stuff

 

Edit: If you can't handle TG don't enter it, easy as that. I want to be able to kill who I want in PvP Areas and not being grounded by any weird rules

 

I agree that his suggestion is way too complex and it can be resolved in a much more simple format.

 

Although I disagree with your "if you can't handle TG don't enter it" because not only is this bad for the game in general but it's a bad point of view to look at Rose PVP and TG as a whole.

 

Plain and simple reply:

 

PVP in Rose

 

CD: unplayable because of lag

AA: unplayable because of lack of players (I have been in the AA queue for 8+ hours for almost every single day during the NA time zone and it has not popped because there has not been enough ACTIVE players for it to start)

TG: This has always been one of the most fun PVP Zones in Rose; even when Union Wars and Clan Wars existed. Now that boosters (stat buffs too but that's a different topic of discussion) limit the fairness of PVP drastically the composition of classes and population in TG has dropped significantly. (so drastic the MUSE and DEALER classes are non-existent in TG because they stand 0 chance of survival in wars due to the lack of stealth)

 

Clerics not being able to survive because of booster'd stealth classes that kill them in 2 seconds = no other non-stealth or straight up tank class can survive. Meaning any player that spent all their time, money, and effort leveling a class other than these classes are unable to have fun PVP'ing in TG.

 

Why is this a problem?

 

As stated above, CD is unplayable, AA is unplayable for a large portion of the day (especially NA time zone), and TG is unplayable for half the classes in the game. This means if a person actually wants to have fun in this game by PVP'ing then they need to play during a specific time zone of the day just to do AA's OR make a Stealth/Tank class to be able to compete with the booster'd classes in TG.

 

I still like the suggestion Leonis gave:

 

Make item mall restoration pots/boosters unusable in TG. Why is this a bad thing? It's not. Boosters and IM pots should never have been implemented in the first place because it completely changes how the PVP meta is.

 

Rose in the past used to have full clans of all classes in TG warring/pvp all day long. Now it's nothing but Raiders and Scouts with the occasional super tanky/useless debuff knight running around on boosters.

[Banrukai]

I haven't played Rose Online in over 6 months.

The idea is not too complex. The mechanics of my idea are already implemented in differents parts of the game already.

I'm starting to think people just don't like change. CD/AA. I thought the topic was TG and boosters.

My idea would work. (@iMatt, you can still slaughter people at your leisure. OPTION # 2, if you really read my post ).

This suggestion would bring back some nostalgia of the old days, which seems to be most of the arguments here, where PvP was more fun, and a lot of diversity in classes killing each other. It also allows low levels to play around with their characters in PvP before reaching max level. This will give them a chance to learn their character, instead of being slaughtered by a max level the moment they enter TG.

Edited by Banrukai, 02 July 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[pdfisher]

This is similar to what a friend of mine posted, but would probably take a whole lot less work to implement. Of course, there is always DoD for those that don't want to wait. Almost no one goes there anymore.

[Banrukai]

The idea was how to change TG. It is centralized, instead of far away from the population. As you said, no one goes to DoD anymore.

This is just a mix of ideas from old days in Rose. For example Clan Fields, back in like 2008 or 09... It has been too long, so i forgot haha.

[VisitorX]

I haven't played Rose Online in over 6 months.

The idea is not too complex. The mechanics of my idea are already implemented in differents parts of the game already.

I'm starting to think people just don't like change. CD/AA. I thought the topic was TG and boosters.

My idea would work. (@iMatt, you can still slaughter people at your leisure. OPTION # 2, if you really read my post ).

This suggestion would bring back some nostalgia of the old days, which seems to be most of the arguments here, where PvP was more fun, and a lot of diversity in classes killing each other. It also allows low levels to play around with their characters in PvP before reaching max level. This will give them a chance to learn their character, instead of being slaughtered by a max level the moment they enter TG.

 

Well at least it's good to see some older players that remember the good old days of TG and how much fun it was. It's no fun unless you're a raider or scout. Luckily I am a Raider, but 90% of my clan is not a raider or scout.

Edited by VModCupcake, 03 July 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Banrukai]

I can't play right now even if i want to, i'm in China haha. No computer. This is my phone.

[borgahutt]

I can already solo a cleric with only stat buffs (although not in 1 stun). The extra 40% damage boost and other boosters will only help me drop them faster.

I was buffed yesterday and had 2 on me , didn't drop... Ask Samsey / imatt / voltZ

Also I said you could and you ran out of TG...

[Feuer]

Taken many clerics down in under 7 seconds with my fragtastic Cannon BA. It's not too difficult and that's buff potions vs Cleric buffs. Raiders have trouble with Clerics because they're a DPS class, not a Burst Class. Ask any cleric and they will tell you their biggest threats are the actual Burst classes like Axe Champs, Nade Arti's, SF Champs, Dual Raiders and the odd Skill Katar. 

[MonnaLise]

Taken many clerics down in under 7 seconds with my fragtastic Cannon BA. It's not too difficult and that's buff potions vs Cleric buffs. Raiders have trouble with Clerics because they're a DPS class, not a Burst Class. Ask any cleric and they will tell you their biggest threats are the actual Burst classes like Axe Champs, Nade Arti's, SF Champs, Dual Raiders and the odd Skill Katar.

I practiced playing cleric having Int for def and same value for charm (not the typical max cha rest int build). I practiced playing with SF champ and axe champ at the same time ( thats with my +60 buffs and told them to BRING IT ON !!! XD) i dint have problem with it. With sleep cloud sleep and mute i did survive them even thou i have a non +15 part. ( idk if i will survive longer with max charm rest int build now). Its the kaTar raider which is really deadly. stun me, stun me again, sleep me once again, im dead meat. Im playing a legit cleric :3

[Feuer]

How does a Katar stun you twice? They only have one. Sucker for Stun, Mystic for Sleep. And mystic will just fall off in .2seconds cause they melee you out of it instantly. 

 

But sometime I'd like to test my BA on your Cleric, if they weren't able to take you down I wonna see if you're doing something diff. 

[kwayan19]

Clerics has low crit rating once they got max crit debuffed.. holy cr7ts from 150% crit damage

[VisitorX]

I practiced playing cleric having Int for def and same value for charm (not the typical max cha rest int build). I practiced playing with SF champ and axe champ at the same time ( thats with my +60 buffs and told them to BRING IT ON !!! XD) i dint have problem with it. With sleep cloud sleep and mute i did survive them even thou i have a non +15 part. ( idk if i will survive longer with max charm rest int build now). Its the kaTar raider which is really deadly. stun me, stun me again, sleep me once again, im dead meat. Im playing a legit cleric :3

 

A scout and raider with boosters would drop you before you can heal once.

[nooooodles]

Damage output atm is just insane, everyone can agree on that. So no it's not just clerics that drop in a few easy hits on boosters, it's every class. Raiders and scouts are played more because they have more survivability w/ stealth and cloak. They've always been popular classes. But they aren't the only class played in wars.

I guess just scale back the % damage boosters give could be a solution, 'cause the differential is overdoing it a bit much. Maybe make 'em give 30% more rather than 50%.

As for making a whole new tg system, don't bother... I'd rather have fixes for stuff that is acutally broken. But working on "fixing" a tg to make it balanced, when it wasn't even designed to be balanced or fair is just a waste of time. There's nothing to gain from winning wars in tg, it's all about pride and hurt feelings.

And VisitorX, you say you want boosters out of the game and spend much of your time advocating so, but you still vend boosters outside of tg.. so what's that about?

[VisitorX]

Damage output atm is just insane, everyone can agree on that. So no it's not just clerics that drop in a few easy hits on boosters, it's every class. Raiders and scouts are played more because they have more survivability w/ stealth and cloak. They've always been popular classes. But they aren't the only class played in wars.
I guess just scale back the % damage boosters give could be a solution, 'cause the differential is overdoing it a bit much. Maybe make 'em give 30% more rather than 50%.
As for making a whole new tg system, don't bother... I'd rather have fixes for stuff that is acutally broken. But working on "fixing" a tg to make it balanced, when it wasn't even designed to be balanced or fair is just a waste of time. There's nothing to gain from winning wars in tg, it's all about pride and hurt feelings.
And VisitorX, you say you want boosters out of the game and spend much of your time advocating so, but you still vend boosters outside of tg.. so what's that about?

IM boosters shouldn't give temporary stats that are greater than a buff by a character in game, that's pay to win.

TG doesn't need to be balanced but it does need to be fair for all players wanting to enter and PVP regardless of their class.

As stated before, TG is often the only accessible PVP area zone for high levels for a large portion of the day.

[Banrukai]

As for making a whole new tg system, don't bother... I'd rather have fixes for stuff that is acutally broken. But working on "fixing" a tg to make it balanced, when it wasn't even designed to be balanced or fair is just a waste of time. There's nothing to gain from winning wars in tg, it's all about pride and hurt feelings.

You would rather; but i would rather see a TG that is more fun for everyone, regardless of level, class. This isn't balancing, it is making an improvement on something.

If you really read my suggestion, and the following posts, you would understand. You also would have seen OPTION #2. This is the same TG as it is now.

OPTION #1 just allows people from any level or class to have fun with PvP, aswell as learn their class and abilities before reaching max level. Because there are restrictions, then it makes it a fair, and more enjoyable environment.

As i said in one of my previous posts, the mechanics of my idea should already be in use throughout the game. So implementing this shouldn't take too long.

[VisitorX]

I think all is said that is needed to be said.

Up to Leonis and his crew to decide if it's better for the game to make a change or keep everything as is.

[Banrukai]

Agreed.

[VisitorX]

Would like to hear feedback from the staff^^

[angeltje]

Would like to hear feedback from the staff^^

Pm them