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#1 StormHaven

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:18 AM

These are balancing changes I've been tumbling around for a long while.

 

1. Reverting,CD,CR,Evade, Block, HP nerfs.

See 3. as to why I'm suggesting this.

 

2. Removal/Extreme weakening of elements in PvP, this means changing it from a flat increase of damage to a % of your damage dealt as elemental.
This weakens it in PvP, but extremely buffs it in PvE.
 

3. Re-introduction of CP Sets with new special stats for each class and new CP weapons. Amount/Rates  are to be determined.
Mage: Reduce damage taken opponents CD attacks.

Warrior: Resist Debuffs 

Archers: Ignore Opponents Block

Thief: Increased critical strike resistance 

Summoners: Increase Debuff % and Duration

Fighter: Ignore opponents defense

 

If those look familiar it's because they come from the Valkyrie sets that were introduced during the ROxDS crossover and they would work extremely well in PvP. This provides each class with a direct weakness to atleast 1 other class,which makes group pvp more balanced out, so no 1 class stands above the others even in group PvP.

 

 

4. Changes to BSQ and Acquiring CP.

BSQ as it stands right now is getting dull. This why i'm suggesting multiple game modes,CtF(current mode), Battle Royal(Team with most points wins, no flags), Territories(Hold certain points on the map to gain points). At the end of every match wining players are rewarded with Sign of Hero, Gold, Armour+Weapon enchant dust and both teams are awarded with a % of their teams score as CP(Winners are get 100% of their score and losers get 30-50% of their score).
 

 

5. Buffs and Debuffs now go off total/final instead of base.

 

 

Feel free to discuss,rant,etc. I'll come back to this later to polish it up when I get time today.
 


Edited by StormHaven, 01 October 2015 - 08:23 AM.

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#2 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:23 AM

Will discussing this eventually lead to a change, or is this a change you can help push to the devs?
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#3 StormHaven

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:26 AM

This is mostly to gauge the player's reaction to major change. If enough of it is  found to be acceptable then Popcorn and me can continue on to push it through to Devs. The more we can get out of the way now, the faster it can be worked on/completed when the time comes.


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#4 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:27 AM

I'll work on my opinions when I get home :D
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#5 5143121023173906760

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:40 AM

I think instead of giving some numbers for element resistance, maybe cards could give "element damage drop %" that would be great.

Also I have to disagre with Warrior's ingore debuffs because that means they can avoid freeze, or stun.

Same goes for increase debuff time for sumonners, they can already stun you for a long time, we don't need to increase that time.
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#6 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:49 AM

Seth, mind you explain the buff/debuff being based on final rather than base? For example god of wrath boosting final phy attack by an insane amount? Etc or buffs from set bonus, such as 50% cr turned into 5% fcr. I mean critical rate can be stacked easily from accessories/weapon and such. Or did you mean this in some other way?
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#7 StormHaven

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:56 AM

Seth, mind you explain the buff/debuff being based on final rather than base? For example god of wrath boosting final phy attack by an insane amount? Etc or buffs from set bonus, such as 50% cr turned into 5% fcr. I mean critical rate can be stacked easily from accessories/weapon and such. Or did you mean this in some other way?

 

For example, Acid Arrow reduces your opponents def by X% as it stands that's X% of their base def after the change it would be X% of their total def. The same would go for other skills that current apply to base would now apply to total.


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#8 ohsnap

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 09:58 AM

not really into getting deleted by one detection from an invoker.


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#9 StormHaven

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:23 AM

not really into getting deleted by one detection from an invoker.

 

oh trust me, I remember the 75k crit hits from invokers, both detection and acid arrow would need major nerfs with these changes.


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#10 ohsnap

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:29 AM

yep I like how invokers are right now don't really want to introduce this back into the ga,e.


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#11 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:30 AM

Stat balancing, not class balancing. You can change the amount later on.
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#12 Mizuro75

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:41 AM

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. different modes, yes
5. Yes and No, matter on class/skill

Sorry for this short answer, will answer with proper opinions for every point later.
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#13 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 12:23 PM

=======Reverting,CD,CR,Evade, Block, HP nerfs=======

 

--Pros--

Massive buff to PvE for all classes

A wide variety of stats to stack instead of only health (Applies significantly well if elements were severely weakened)

Some of the lower tiered classes will be moved up

Damage dealt will be increased, but not game changing like elements

Be able to "Dodge" damage so the insane damage could be reduced

--Cons--

Tank meta is still going on, but much more intimidating if the damage is not high enough (If elements were severely weakened)

Back to aim stacking.

Evade will completely make others focus on certain stats just to be able to hit them (Have to increase minimum hitrate over 30% to allow variety of stats to be stacked. To hit evade stackers(easiest stat to possibly stack) you will have to sacrifice cr/cd and other stats just for aim to have a chance at hitting them)

Basically find the sweet spot for evade where it is good, but not so good enough that you have to give up stacking what you want just to hit them

Tldr: Fix evade/aim to be more viable, but not game breaking.

--Class stuff--

Summoners will be able to wipe Elga at a ridiculous pace. Maybe a better balancing without elements to not be too op, but still be very viable as dps.

Twins would have to be nerfed in pvp significantly due to evade/block/health/mspd(basically hard to catch, along with that they can be as tanky as any class)

Sorcerers can finally do damage in pve and pvp with the critical damage buff

Ninjas will be viable and either move to mid or top tier due to evade/block/cd

Overlords should be able to do damage, not be a punching bag, that's the pallies job

Dragoons can be viable as an all rounder tank with enough cc/block/cd

Invokers can be very good tanks, and can still do damage with enough cd/Fix to detection/(magic defense is hard to stack)

Savages can have excellent dps along with the high evade/cd

Destroyers can do insane amounts of damage as a pure dps class with enough cd

Sentinals are very good now and will be still be great without elements with the cd/evade buff/Very high aim rate

--Summary--

Fact is that the pro's outweigh the cons. Although there is much more to be said since this is independent from element.

It is a different story if elements stay the same and this gets input(I would say no to the change).

If this is combined with the element balance, my opinion would be to do it.

Only factor that many agree with that rejects this is the amount of money/time/effort spent on elements.

 

 

Removal/Extreme weakening of elements in PvP, this means changing it from a flat increase of damage to a % of your damage dealt as elemental.
This weakens it in PvP, but extremely buffs it in PvE.

 

--Pros--

Back to square one, old dragonica

Players would not have to farm a specific dungeon for months and more.

The current dps spike on hits per second would be nerfed and balanced out more than it would be for elements.

Low hits per second classes won't get hit hard by the nerf as the high hits per second classes

Easier to balance stats. Since it is the core compared to another added variable (Elements).

Less variables= easier to balance. 

Balancing classes would be easier without elements taken into consideration

--Cons--

The heaviest factor here is the amount of effort, money, and time spent by end gamers and people that want to purely pvp at a specific level range.

The money players have possibly spent

The time players have spent

The effort players spent

Without extra damage, end game stackers will most likely take little to no damage.(This can be changed by fixing defense and attack system)

Other than these reasons, most players would agree to this as long as they change Atk/Matk/Def/Mdef equations and such where we do not do 200 damage without elements.

--Classes--

High dps classes will be balanced down

Low dps classes' nerf will not affect them as much

--Summary--

It should be changed, but the amount of work many players put in outweighs the change. It will be like the ragged set outrage, but more violent.

I would agree to the change for weakening or even removal although not happy with the decision after the amount of effort.

 

Edited by Agitodesu, 01 October 2015 - 12:26 PM.

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#14 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 12:35 PM

====== Re-introduction of CP Sets with new special stats for each class and new CP weapons. Amount/Rates  are to be determined.=====

 

--Pros--

Brings variety to stacking or choice to use complete sets

It "Could" be useful but not sure the extent

--Cons--

Too expensive, People will abuse 3rd party clients to rake in cp

(This can be changed if Battlesquare rewards cp)

Some of the buffs may be too strong or be useless, causing another rework/fix to happen

--Summary--

In my opinion, being a set fan, I like the idea of introducing new sets. I like to collect them for looks. pvp. pve, and even afking(Looks lol).

Others would disagree, but introducing new sets, even if it may be useless or over powered(Which can be fixed) shouldn't hurt the pvp factor in the game.

 

 


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#15 5143121023173906760

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:04 PM

Sorcerers can finally do damage in pve and pvp with the critical damage buff


Can't they stack C.Rate/Damage already ?
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#16 StormHaven

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:06 PM

Can't they stack C.Rate/Damage already ?

 

The highest Sorcs used to get was about 1k CD and 50% CR in PvP now it's more like 300% and 30% or something. It was a major nerf to them.


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#17 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:08 PM

I myself capped out on 40% crit rate and 300% critical damage on my sorceror. My dps is still terribad.


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#18 5143121023173906760

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:10 PM

The highest Sorcs used to get was about 1k CD and 50% CR in PvP now it's more like 300% and 30% or something. It was a major nerf to them.

That's right. But I already think sorcerers are still skillful right now.

Stacking that many C.Damage/Rate would make Elga soloable, even for someone that doesn't have+20 pos and 15* rings.

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 01 October 2015 - 01:11 PM.

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#19 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:18 PM

Debatable on being able to solo it. But hey, If I had a choice to make either a summoner or warmage to solo elga, Id pick warmage because of preference.

 

Considering how no one mentioned after I said that with the revert that summoners will be really op in pve. Killing elga 10 times faster may be a problem, but who knows. Preference really.

Then again I am not against every class being able to solo elga. I mean sure, undergeared may require a party, but I'm sure some people only built summoners with the intention to solo elga. I'm more of an equality person. Either no one can solo elga, or all classes can solo elga. I'd prefer all classes able to solo elga though since I have no friends and prefer to pve alone most of the time. Only if you do max out your character that is.


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#20 StormHaven

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:22 PM

Elga is only soloable because they severely nerfed him. You used to have to have Pally+Ninja combo to even complete Elga, or really it was theorized a Summoner could've soloed him pre nerf. Like Agito I'd rather have everyone be able to solo Elga than no one,because I don't think it's possible to balance Elga anymore to the point that people won't be mandatory to  use Dagger+TR to clear it, but enough that it can be pugged by 4-8 ppl.


Edited by StormHaven, 01 October 2015 - 01:23 PM.

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#21 5143121023173906760

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:26 PM

I suggest removing/nerfing those Final Damage Amplification that sumonners have. :D
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#22 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:54 PM

That would be unfair to those who farmed cards/bought cards. Maybe if you change it into something else it may be better than removing it.


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#23 5143121023173906760

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:57 PM

Well, unity set was unfair for those who had Devil's agility set and no one complained.
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#24 Agitodesu

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 02:02 PM

It is because it is a set, and games usually come up with better sets. The thing I'm getting at is the game gets better, in game content gets better. When we wore elga equips, and the pos set came out, we went for that without question. Pos is most definately better than the normal and rare elga set.

 

As for the devil set, getting a set with more attack speed should be pretty nice to have. It just so happened that many people may have farmed complete sets to sell them. And when the planets aligned and just so happened that the unity set came out, the price dropped faster than physics could defy.

 

But anyways although unfair. I have 10/10 nation fury and I would be okay with completely removing the damage booster. If it was replaced with something else or something. But many summoner mains would disagree with damage reduction.


Edited by Agitodesu, 01 October 2015 - 02:05 PM.

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#25 SoulSight

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:22 AM

I really had to +1 these posts! Very persuasive

 

 

[...]

--Cons--

The heaviest factor here is the amount of effort, money, and time spent by end gamers and people that want to purely pvp at a specific level range.

The money players have possibly spent

The time players have spent

 

- This type of change always makes this factor happen. Similar with Unity set, people spent effort for Devil's Agility set then the Best Unity set was released RIGHT AFTER that. The Devil set was immediately devalued.

 

It is because it is a set, and games usually come up with better sets. The thing I'm getting at is the game gets better, in game content gets better. When we wore elga equips, and the pos set came out, we went for that without question. Pos is most definately better than the normal and rare elga set.

 

As for the devil set, getting a set with more attack speed should be pretty nice to have. It just so happened that many people may have farmed complete sets to sell them. And when the planets aligned and just so happened that the unity set came out, the price dropped faster than physics could defy.

 

But anyways although unfair. I have 10/10 nation fury and I would be okay with completely removing the damage booster. If it was replaced with something else or something. But many summoner mains would disagree with damage reduction.

... Was about to say. But well stated!

 

 

 

If those look familiar it's because they come from the Valkyrie sets that were introduced during the ROxDS crossover and they would work extremely well in PvP. This provides each class with a direct weakness to atleast 1 other class,which makes group pvp more balanced out, so no 1 class stands above the others even in group PvP.

According to CoolSam, he said Ragnarok world was not done yet so I suggest waiting for update before final decision.


Edited by SoulSight, 02 October 2015 - 06:32 AM.

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