217 replies to this topic

[Pean]

Nerf Hibram please. Please contact the president of the US and Korea please and have this put on the national security of priority to be fixed list. This is of national security as Hibram has the absolute power to devastate a computer from within a game (SAO)? It's crazy and should be looked at right away. Think of all the starving children because Hibram wiped out the crops.

 

still? have you talked to a doctor about that?

[Inubashiri]

Noticing who section 9 respond to with subtle hints might also make you /hmm a little about what they know about whom and in what guilds.

 

I'm not making a /hmm at anyone, those who are cheating know who they are and I encourage you to stop because nothing lasts forever.

 

Yea..we know that part.

Now tell us what we don't know : What is being done about it?

 

P.S. : Meow meow?

 

Not allowed, a kitten will be killed.

 

I see. People might as well starting post some random info instead of grabbing every opportunity of not posting useless

-_-. Let me start: Cherophobia is the fear of fun. Why did I post this? Because it's a fact. Upvote me, if you will.

 

I'm sorry but if no action is being taken, finger pointing is useless. USELESS. If anything you're encouraging cheaters by making them sure nothing is gonna happen. Worst case scenario you get a reply or two from Section 9.

 

Godamnit the more I know the more I think we deserve the bad stuff we get.

 

I wasn't pointing the finger at anyone more saying its stupid to not acknowledge cheating is there and literally squat has been done about.

 

Lmao Inu's post about nothing being done about cheating looks removed but my reply is here anyway:

 

https://forums.warpp...-classic-right/

 

Perhaps since this company seems so set on letting people cheat against legit players without consequence it's time to return to that great MMO in the sky called real life and forget about dealing with the bull-_- here.

 

I was told to stop because its biased/partisan because Xellie happens to be a friend I've had way before I ever started helping WP.  Quite frankly if one more WP staff member accuses me of that I'm taking it to their bosses.  That is a piss poor excuse to get onto someone for.

 

inb4 bias calls....

 

JUST TO BE CLEAR, just because I am friends with someone doesn't mean I won't jump on them when they are in the wrong or doing wrong.  For instance, if I saw a Valhalla member cheating I would bring it to her attention without reserve, I have zero tolerance for it.  This makes it easier because of said friendship.

 

Open accusations here on the forums honestly do not help the situation. 

 

Neither does failing to listen to someone because of your own inherent bias whether you see it or not.  When someone has to do twice the work than normal to prove a point because said person is paranoid its called being a part of the problem itself and it paralyzes any progress.

 

@Oda, with all due respect, something has to give and you know it.

 

@WP Please pull your head out of your ass and stop being so paralyzed, if enforcement is the job of Warnhal and GM Team and you wish to use our methods then you're gonna have to learn it, there are no short cuts.  I will probably be in trouble for saying all this but these are paying customers and deserve to know what they are investing their time and money in.  I have no problem instructing on our tools or sharing them as long as they are used properly, but that commitment needs to be made and honored.

 

@Warnhal its appreciated you meeting us half way, but you are just far too busy to teach when it takes days to reply to a simple question.  And if no one is allowed to interact with the GM team then we are at an impasse here and thus nothing will happen.  These tools were made to assist them and if we can't instruct them on their use then you have wasted our time and the players.

 

You guys are so afraid of the word "bias" that is has paralyzed your entire decision making process.  When there is wrong doing and plenty of evidence to support it, its a huge slap in the face when its not even considered, video tape and logs to support the tape don't lie.  99% of this can't be reproduced and its a right place and right time ordeal, YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS. 

Edited by Inubashiri, 22 January 2016 - 12:25 AM.

[fatguy]

Well, the two times I went to DG mvp to compete, people were abusing the fact that the map was memoable so I reported that and then it magically stopped being memoable...

Was it really abuse, or using game mmechanics to do something that may have been attended at the start. There is a reason why warping into a place and getting on a map are tools in the game. They might be advance tactics, but they are put in for a reason. Unless you ahve a degree in game design or other technical degree, please give reasons why its abuse.

[ShinRyoma]

Npw that was interesting. Saving before someone deletes his post again.

[Inubashiri]

Was it really abuse, or using game mmechanics to do something that may have been attended at the start. There is a reason why warping into a place and getting on a map are tools in the game. They might be advance tactics, but they are put in for a reason. Unless you ahve a degree in game design or other technical degree, please give reasons why its abuse.

 

You can't even memo it on renewal and if memory serves, you couldn't do it in pre-renewal either.  I think its safe to assume it wasn't intended to be memoable and a bug surfaced that people decided to conveniently ignore and use for their own ends.  This is not an atypical behavior in this game.

[needmorezleep]

cant memo quest maps otherwise you could be able to skip the quest like ayo_fild02 iirc is also a quest none memoable map

[Xellie]

Was it really abuse, or using game mmechanics to do something that may have been attended at the start. There is a reason why warping into a place and getting on a map are tools in the game. They might be advance tactics, but they are put in for a reason. Unless you ahve a degree in game design or other technical degree, please give reasons why its abuse.

 

not vanilla, not intended

[Vau]

Basically, the community is flawed in these ways for being responsible to help guide the staff with the direction of the server. I think the community has a lot to offer and I have been very supportive of these ideas for a long time. However, it has it's limitations. One of the big limitations is expressing differences of concepts and requesting changes. Looking at the god item quest, there are lots of people who benefited well from this and a lot of people who suffered. Regardless of change there will be those groups. The problem is this is Ragnarok Online where people spend YEARS to accomplish things and when these changes directly "punish" them it tends to cause many emotions and anger. I can't fault anybody for that.

 

Anyways, I'm not putting my opinion on those things out there... But if VMod or staff want to understand why people are so passionate about topics or why personal attacks/drama happens... Its because people invest their lives (in some situations) to the video game and when changes are proposed that could "punish" their work it leads to a lot of bitterness. The opposing group that receives the "benefit" becomes the outlet for anger and there is a vicious cycle.

 

There is no fix for it. For people to come in here who don't even play on the server and just say "it's meaningless drama", they can say that because they haven't invested anything substantial into the server. 

 

Passion causes the best and worst out of people. Although for some it's obsession and not really passion lol. 

 

 

We are a very small team running this game and to be able to put time and energy into a server's development we really do rely on your input and ability to work with us and each other . When instead there's 80 percent noise and 20 percent signal with everyone yelling at us and each other it becomes very easy to focus our energy elsewhere each week.

 

 

I just think that we should focus on improving marketing, population, and communication.

I was talking to a few of my friends and we thought it would be great to give streamers some sort of reward to their viewers to give them an incentive to play the game.

With a modern client, we could finally have a "Global chats" "global Party/Trade" . This will make things a lot easier for new players to learn and find parties. Almost every single game now days has these options in place.

In my opinion, reducing castles will only stun the growth of the population and restrict young guilds from growing.

As a community we should create guides to people on the gameplay. For example, Undying's guide for WoE has helped me tremendously.

Having a website for just Classic will help people from distinguishing from the different servers.

Somebody even suggested that we write a review for Classic onrenewal.playragnarok.com (lol)

Let us try our best to keep posts within topic to avoid misdirection to other players.

Why do always resort to pointing fingers. Let's keep that kind of chat back into irowiki's dark side.

 

 

I don't get it. Where exactly do you expect this population of players to come from? What do you think is going to attract them here and make them stay when there are all these issues, when appealing private servers are competing for their attention?

I hope you understand the reason things like cheating, the god creation and god saturation, the way woe is right now with empty castles and alliances and crap are a big problem, and the reason we are here pushing for change, is that these are the big issues that are driving players away and likewise keeping people from wanting to come to play this game and this server.

Edit: I should noted that the other suggestions like the other woes, pvm ti expansion, better more fun/competitive bgs are also just as important, on the content expansion side.

Population is not just about advertising, it's about your server being able to attract and retain players. The issues have caused the low population much more than the low population have caused the issues here.

It's also pretty disgusting how the staff treat the volunteers who are often doing much more to effectively help this server than they are on some of these issues, when they aren't doing more harm than good even.

 

 

Looks like there was some very good points made by the players.

 

I just felt I would put in my two since as a old player returning to IRO and playing on "classic"

 

My understanding of Classic is that it was well going to be more like Classic.

 

All I see is that is EXTREMELY easy to level. Which of course minimizes people working together. I remember that people know what spots were best to level at and you would always find people in your level trying to get by there. And thus also creating more friends which makes people want to stay.

 

This seal thing seems like just another part of classic that is broken. Just like letting bot guilds run amuck back in the old days and then implementing name changes so you couldnt even see who used to be a botter. This new stuff about over saturating stronger guilds with even more mvp and god items just brings the game into something it wasnt.

 

Might as well add in 3rd classes and new items (cus there is already new items that wasnt there) and make this a classic based system instead.

I would really love to have a new vanilla server but I dont think there is enough people out there anymore to even fill it up.

 

 

Fraction will be brand new players who have not experienced RO. Majority would have to come from pservers (who have a huge pre-renewal population), but wont come under current circumstances. Few old players may return, depending on reasons that they left.

 

Skimming off pserver players is/has been the best option. They wont come due to WoE setups currently (generally they don't care for gods/mvps) and due to pservers having much better servers (less lag). There are many factors.

 

It's funny though. Classic has better exp/drop rates then the majority of low rate pservers, yet their populations are enormous compared to us.

 

 

When someone has to do twice the work than normal to prove a point because said person is paranoid its called being a part of the problem itself and it paralyzes any progress.

 

@Oda, with all due respect, something has to give and you know it.

 

@WP Please pull your head out of your ass and stop being so paralyzed, if enforcement is the job of Warnhal and GM Team and you wish to use our methods then you're gonna have to learn it, there are no short cuts.  I will probably be in trouble for saying all this but these are paying customers and deserve to know what they are investing their time and money in.  I have no problem instructing on our tools or sharing them as long as they are used properly, but that commitment needs to be made and honored.

 

@Warnhal its appreciated you meeting us half way, but you are just far too busy to teach when it takes days to reply to a simple question.  And if no one is allowed to interact with the GM team then we are at an impasse here and thus nothing will happen.  These tools were made to assist them and if we can't instruct them on their use then you have wasted our time and the players.

 

You guys are so afraid of the word "bias" that is has paralyzed your entire decision making process.  When there is wrong doing and plenty of evidence to support it, its a huge slap in the face when its not even considered, video tape and logs to support the tape don't lie.  99% of this can't be reproduced and its a right place and right time ordeal, YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS. 

 

 

After reading all these comments, it all leads to one answer : A new re-designed iRO classic. I don't find a better solution for WarpPortal and the community with all the issues iRO classic has had. No matter how hard you try to keep this server alive, there's almost no way to bring back veterans or get new players and/or to last long on here. The game is way too flawed, there's new hyped MMO's around there and there's also the discussion between the ones that spent years and money on the game and the ones that just want a fair iRO classic without core problems.

If anything, WarpPortal needs to step in, talk with the core guild leaders on iRO Classic and make substantial decisions.

 

If you guys really love a game, you won't care of the time or money you spent on it, as long as it still alive. Just like real life...

[Delitus]

If you guys really love a game, you won't care of the time or money you spent on it, as long as it still alive. Just like real life...

 

Words to remember.

[dzmL]

We, the players, really love this game. The staff just use that love to make money. Don't fool yourself into forgetting the staff don't play this game, they don't understand this game. They don't give a -_- about you so long as you contribute to their ability to pay people to sit on their asses.

[rojoky113]

Npw that was interesting. Saving before someone deletes his post again.

Looks pretty obvious she got in trouble for hinting at things and saying too much, and that's now her official, more "PC" response. Also clearly frustrated that section 9 looks to be working hard on developing tools and methods to catch the cheaters running rampant but instead of listening to them it sounds like the staff are deciding it's easier to shout "biased!" and bury their head in the sand and continue to do nothing, than take action and admit anyone was right or wrong.

My take on it at least, and I'm not afraid to call it like I see it.

You know those really dumb zero tolerance policies in schools nowadays that people hate because of stupid -_- like kids getting beat up then suspended for "fighting" whether they did anything or defended themselves or not?

And how they're there because bureaucracy, administration, and staff are too terrified of frivolous lawsuits and too spineless to make and stand behind any decisions, for fear of any accusation they made the wrong one by idiot -_-head parents?

Kinda reminds me of that except the zero tolerance policy is on them doing anything.

Edited by rojoky113, 22 January 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[rojoky113]

If you guys really love a game, you won't care of the time or money you spent on it, as long as it still alive. Just like real life...

If you are making the point I think you are, the problem is that players and guilds spending a lot of time (and nowadays money) to acquire powerful gear is part of the game they love (and is what keeps many otherwise maxed out characters active instead of logging in only for woe which is important), it's an mmo not a moba it's about politics and competing and working hard to improve your guild and characters and gain advantages as well. And invalidating all that effort is a huge slap to the face of many dedicated players. There are alternatives to "delete all gods and mvps" or "reset the server" and there are people here on the forums pitching those ideas repeatedly.

Edited by rojoky113, 22 January 2016 - 09:02 AM.

[Xellie]

I'd like to give the Iron-E award to Oda for complaining about people complaining about bias and apparently being guilty of it himself.

 

A+

[Rastaban]

Like has been mentioned here, any change we make will be scrutinized, fairly or unfairly under a microscope as being to the benefit of one "side" and to the detriment of the other "side". 

 

As touched on in Inubarishi's excellent post, you need to take what the community says with a colossal block of salt. There will always be people who try to sway things in their favor with accusations of bias.

By all means listen to the community, but don't be afraid to ignore their cries or even call them out if they're wrong or maliciously out of place. Use your head!

 

Think about it. Does deleting all minis/mvps/gods/OCAs/ACAs/Yggs/etc (or even a complete item/zeny wipe) on Classic and fixing droprates benefit any one side? Of course not, it screws both equally. One side may say "well we have more of the items that are being removed so it's more unfair to us", but like I said, use your head. Fairness is making everybody follow the same set of rules, not guaranteeing everybody will be affected by the rules equally. 

 

If you want to run this place (or anything, for that matter), you have to be able to put your foot down.

Edited by Rastaban, 22 January 2016 - 09:16 PM.

[rojoky113]

I feel that's a slightly disingenuous argument, the people who put much more time, effort, energy and even money into working towards and getting those items are absolutely being screwed over and punished more and they would have good reason to say that. You are invalidating all that effort they put in over years in good faith and putting them on the same level as those who didn't try literally at all.

 

I feel like doing that basically has almost the same set of counter points as resetting the server entirely, people have put years into this game and you are deleting all their stuff.

Edited by rojoky113, 22 January 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[Xellie]

As touched on in Inubarishi's excellent post, you need to take what the community says with a colossal block of salt. There will always be people who try to sway things in their favor with accusations of bias.

By all means listen to the community, but don't be afraid to ignore their cries or even call them out of they're wrong or maliciously out of place. Use your head!

 

Hahah this. Yes pls.
 

[Rastaban]

I feel that's a slightly disingenuous argument, the people who put much more time, effort, energy and even money into working towards and getting those items are absolutely being screwed over and punished more and they would have good reason to say that. You are invalidating all that effort they put in over years in good faith and putting them on the same level as those who didn't try literally at all.

 

I feel like doing that basically has almost the same set of counter points as resetting the server entirely, people have put years into this game and you are deleting all their stuff.

 

Regarding time/effort/etc, I think anyone playing long enough will back me up on this, but it's been easier to accomplish more in the 3 years Classic has been around than what could have been accomplished in the 9-10 years of pre-renewal Chaos/Loki/Ymir, simply because the Classic server was broken from the start.

 

I'm not a big gambler myself, but I've been to Vegas a few times with friends, and every slot/video poker machine has the same sticker on it: "Malfunction voids all pays and plays". If the machine screws up due to computer error (or even casino negligence, as happened when courts ruled against a grandmother who was denied a $41.8m payout from a machine a casino tech mistakenly left in "demo mode" with 200x rates), the casino is not obligated to pay out winnings. 

 

Classic has been malfunctioning from the start, and the only fair option left is to "void all pays and plays". Naturally, this will impact the jackpot winners more than the people who have been receiving just enough to keep plugging the machine these past 3 years, but them's the breaks.

 

At least they're not out $41.8 million.

[rojoky113]

Your comparison is again very deeply flawed, I can't believe you're passing off a comparison between an unintended malfunction in a gambling machine rewarding one person a jackpot by mistake being revoked, to a server that had intended set rates and mechanics understood by both players and staff from the beginning that was played in good faith by all from an even playing field at the start, and some people tried harder and competed harder and earned those items only to have them all deleted, as the same thing.

 

It doesn't matter if it's 10 years or 3 years you are still just suggesting "lol sorry deleted" to years of work. Just because the playing field would be even afterward doesn't mean that the method you used to get there wasn't grossly unfair or punishing to dedicated players. There are better solutions than that.

Edited by rojoky113, 22 January 2016 - 09:22 PM.

[Xellie]

Regarding time/effort/etc, I think anyone playing long enough will back me up on this, but it's been easier to accomplish more in the 3 years Classic has been around than what could have been accomplished in the 9-10 years of pre-renewal Chaos/Loki/Ymir, simply because the Classic server was broken from the start.

 

I'm not a big gambler myself, but I've been to Vegas a few times with friends, and every slot/video poker machine has the same sticker on it: "Malfunction voids all pays and plays". If the machine screws up due to computer error (or even casino negligence, as happened when courts ruled against a grandmother who was denied a $41.8m payout from a machine a casino tech mistakenly left in "demo mode" with 200x rates), the casino is not obligated to pay out winnings. 

 

Classic has been malfunctioning from the start, and the only fair option left is to "void all pays and plays". Naturally, this will impact the jackpot winners more than the people who have been receiving just enough to keep plugging the machine these past 3 years, but them's the breaks.

 

At least they're not out $41.8 million.

 

everyone had the ability to play with the same odds of payout - in the case of classic they deliberately did what they did.
 

[zerowon]

why aren't we at 12 pages yet your lack of posting in here is appalling

[Rastaban]

Bottom line is that the casino was negligent in allowing people to play a 200x rate machine, just as Classic GMs were negligent in allowing gamebreaking rates for minis/MVPs/god pieces, and enough castles for a 5k pop server.

 

Negligence, like technical malfunction, voids all pays and plays.

The final outcome is no different than if the GMs intentionally gave mvp/mini cards a 10% drop rate. Players would still realize that the rate was too high and demand change all the same, but my guess is they would be a lot less conflicted about the measures necessary to correct it.

[Xellie]

"I'll compete next time I promise"

 

 

[Rastaban]

Probably not.

[Xellie]

This wouldn't be the first time I've started a guild on equal footing with someone else and pulled ahead so far they've decided Valhalla didn't work to deserve it ¬.¬

[Heart]

This wouldn't be the first time I've started a guild on equal footing with someone else and pulled ahead so far they've decided Valhalla didn't work to deserve it ¬.¬

 

It might become true in the near future since they are making godlies etc for us to use now.