217 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

soul linkers are p scary

[Xandyzor]

 

Announcement: Campitor is out of town next week, so we will not be doing a maintenance on the week of the 28th. 

 

 

 

True?

[Jayalphy]

<snip>, I logged in like 2 months back, changed all my account passwords, tried logging in last week and 2 of my accounts got banned. So I post a ticket stating the problem, and I got a reply stating it was found using 3rd party program, and I didn't even log in. Can your team not freaking check the activity log of a specific account before giving reply? Seriously talk to your team about this ! You already succeeded in fending off half of classic, don't do that to remaining classic.

Edited by VModCinnamon, 27 January 2016 - 03:06 AM.
Removed call out

[VModCinnamon]

Jayalphy, chill please. Private message me that ticket number I will pass it to the CMs for review.

[Xplay4eva]

Come to think of it, I do not think the nuclear option of a server wipe is needed at the moment. If I imagine being a brand new, fresh off the internet player then the game progression might look like this:

 

PVM -> PVP -> WOE

 

Far as I can tell, PVM is in good shape or at least I can say that I like its mechanics.

 

 

PVP & WOE have pretty technical and specific concerns that do not necessarily affect PVM. So they would need to be addressed separately. I believe the logic should flow something like, "if I get good enough at PVM then maybe I will try PVP. Then if I get good enough at PVP then I will try WOE." (or going PVM to WOE)

 

IDK, I am far from an expert on WOE but it sounds like some players are saying it is too hard for newcomers to catch up but other players are saying that IRO is about accumulating power and items over time. Kind of similar to a dog chasing its tail?

 

 

Getting back to PVM, I would say that the trick is to make it more appealing to do PVM. Possibly keeping Janeway but slowing her down by maybe doubling or tripling the kill counts. Beyond that, Classic PVM seems fine to me for the most part, all that needs improvement is end game stuff and bridging the gaps to the other game modes.

[kingarthur6687]

IDK, I am far from an expert on WOE but it sounds like some players are saying it is too hard for newcomers to catch up but other players are saying that IRO is about accumulating power and items over time. Kind of similar to a dog chasing its tail?

As far as I understand it, WoE is alleged to be "too hard" for newcomers to "catch up" in because there is an overabundance of god items and MVP cards in the hands of the established players and guilds. The thing about "accumulating power and items over time" is pointing out that RO is an MMO, not a MOBA where you get to endgame in ~20 minutes, and as such the gap between slowly building up your characters and endgame content is a part of the game.

[rojoky113]

Come to think of it, I do not think the nuclear option of a server wipe is needed at the moment. If I imagine being a brand new, fresh off the internet player then the game progression might look like this:

 

PVM -> PVP -> WOE

 

Far as I can tell, PVM is in good shape or at least I can say that I like its mechanics.

 

 

PVP & WOE have pretty technical and specific concerns that do not necessarily affect PVM. So they would need to be addressed separately. I believe the logic should flow something like, "if I get good enough at PVM then maybe I will try PVP. Then if I get good enough at PVP then I will try WOE." (or going PVM to WOE)

 

IDK, I am far from an expert on WOE but it sounds like some players are saying it is too hard for newcomers to catch up but other players are saying that IRO is about accumulating power and items over time. Kind of similar to a dog chasing its tail?

 

 

Getting back to PVM, I would say that the trick is to make it more appealing to do PVM. Possibly keeping Janeway but slowing her down by maybe doubling or tripling the kill counts. Beyond that, Classic PVM seems fine to me for the most part, all that needs improvement is end game stuff and bridging the gaps to the other game modes.

 

I kinda disagree that classic pvm is fine and doesn't need updating.

 

All the super fasttrack BS like janeway, fencers and item turn-ins have basically removed the first 86 levels of the game for all except the newest of players, who have nobody to play with because the majority of classics already small population skip that part of the game. After that it is basically either ID3 or solo leeching in thors (or another comparable map) depending on whether you are new/poor or established/wealthier. The entire rest of the game might as well practically not exist at this point in terms of leveling and thats really boring and unhealthy. Additionally party play, social interaction and community are suffering greatly because there is no reason for established players to ever bother "wasting" their time playing with new and leveling players, or even teaming up with others to do anything other than maybe ET and some mvps. Mvp scene is pretty half-arsed right now too though.

 

Poor pvm is definitely a problem contributing to classics decline. There are ways to change and help all that though.

Edited by rojoky113, 27 January 2016 - 05:29 AM.

[Undying]

Classic PVM is the same it has been for many many years, ever since fencers were introduced. Major difference is we use to have many more end game places to level (bio insta spawn parties ftw). 

 

All of the cheats, all of the exploit, all of the rmt, all of the dupe, and all of the problems existed on previous iRO servers. Nothing is new here, which is why it is so frustrating to see us hit the same walls with these problems.

[Rythen]

soul linkers are p scary

they were scarier when people didn't have 3 million crystal fragments lying around.

 

PJSalt

[Xplay4eva]

On a brand new Classic, fast track options might be unhealthy but for a well established Classic I see them as mostly harmless. The core population is already at or near the top so it is not unexpected for there to be less people in low level areas. Party play and things like that would take drastic changes to make happen I think. 

Out of all the ways that get mentioned to increase the population, I think the best is making the god tier PVP gears and cards easier to get. But then again that also goes against what IRO is on a certain level. (since those things are supposed to be tough to acquire)

 

Pick your poison: hard to get power with skilled but potentially less players or easy to get power with maybe more players but with them having less skill?

Edited by Xplay4eva, 27 January 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[Oda]

<snip>, I logged in like 2 months back, changed all my account passwords, tried logging in last week and 2 of my accounts got banned. So I post a ticket stating the problem, and I got a reply stating it was found using 3rd party program, and I didn't even log in. Can your team not freaking check the activity log of a specific account before giving reply? Seriously talk to your team about this ! You already succeeded in fending off half of classic, don't do that to remaining classic.

 

Can you PM me with the ticket number when you have a chance?

[Xellie]

On a brand new Classic, fast track options might be unhealthy but for a well established Classic I see them as mostly harmless. The core population is already at or near the top so it is not unexpected for there to be less people in low level areas. Party play and things like that would take drastic changes to make happen I think. 

Out of all the ways that get mentioned to increase the population, I think the best is making the god tier PVP gears and cards easier to get. But then again that also goes against what IRO is on a certain level. (since those things are supposed to be tough to acquire)

 

Pick your poison: hard to get power with skilled but potentially less players or easy to get power with maybe more players but with them having less skill?

 making god tier items easier to get just means everyone gets one shotted and that isn't fun.

 

Which is also why mass producing level 70 chars for seal pushing + double creations is a horrible idea. Otherwise fast tracking is fine.

[Xplay4eva]

 making god tier items easier to get just means everyone gets one shotted and that isn't fun.

What about god tier defense gears? (assuming for a moment that everyone has access to everything)

[Xellie]

You'd think it'd be def gear first then earn the ability to bash through that

 

We could use more def gear tho, or enhancements to current things (looking at you, sleipnir, asprika)

[Undying]

Put WoE TE in and add in new god items (like renewal woe TE).

 

Classic God Shield: 4 def, indestructable, all classes, 300 weight, 40% reduction vs all races, +5% max hp

Classic God Helm: 2 def, top headgear only, 300 weight, all classes, 12% reduced damage from demi human, 12% increased physical damage vs demi humans, can see cloaked and dead people

Classic "mini meg" (exchange an asprika for it): Accessory item that enables use of teleport level 1 and greed level 1

 

ggnore

Edited by Undying, 27 January 2016 - 07:31 PM.

[Xellie]

so long as the hat isnt ugly that is good

[Undying]

so long as the hat isnt ugly that is good

 

Kaho Horns, makes sense right?

[Xellie]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yes

[Heart]

Put WoE TE in and add in new god items (like renewal woe TE).

 

Classic God Shield: 4 def, indestructable, all classes, 300 weight, 40% reduction vs all races, +5% max hp

Classic God Helm: 2 def, top headgear only, 300 weight, all classes, 12% reduced damage from demi human, 12% increased physical damage vs demi humans, can see cloaked and dead people

Classic "mini meg" (exchange an asprika for it): Accessory item that enables use of teleport level 1 and greed level 1

 

ggnore

 

i likes this

[battle]

Put WoE TE in and add in new god items (like renewal woe TE).

 

Classic God Shield: 4 def, indestructable, all classes, 300 weight, 40% reduction vs all races, +5% max hp

Classic God Helm: 2 def, top headgear only, 300 weight, all classes, 12% reduced damage from demi human, 12% increased physical damage vs demi humans, can see cloaked and dead people

Classic "mini meg" (exchange an asprika for it): Accessory item that enables use of teleport level 1 and greed level 1

 

ggnore

 

Classic god shield is only good for taking Melee hits

Classic God Helm=MP hack GMG hack Why don't we just get renewal cat ear beret?

Classic Mini Meg "give me your asprika then" because greed is a headgear item ability. If I was you I would ask for a list of hats they could use but not been implemented and modify it.

[rojoky113]

Adding more defensive god tier items makes me a little wary, not saying it shouldn't be done at all but it needs to be done carefully. There are already high tier defensive items and if you look at them, they are designed in what looks like a very specific and deliberate manner: they buff defense towards one type of attack/element while leaving you more exposed to others as a balance, forcing you to switch equipment and always have a weakness of some sort over standard reductions/equipment.

 

GTB: Magic immunity but no cranial, so you take nearly half again as much damage as you would have (70% to 100% is almost 1.5 times as much).

Asprika: Excellent reduction to elemental melee, doesn't work vs bomb or magic.

Tao: Huge HP buff for surviving one-shot skills or sac-ing, huge def/mdef loss and can be frozen/stoned

DR: Large neutral resist for big killers in bomb/fist, elemental damage really messes you up.

GR: Massive reduction to neutral, but can freeze/SC to negate it.

Bryn: Hp boost has some moderate defensive use to survive reflect/one shot skills, but it isn't huge and you freeze/sc.

 

In undyings example, the headgear probably wouldn't be gamebreaking because it combines the uses of multiple existing headgears with just a slight buff, so it's main draw is not having to switch and saving hotkeys while having all those effects IMO which is actually pretty cool given almost every woe players desire for more hotkeys. The shield though, because of the way reductions stack that extra 10% is a pretty huge additional reduction especially on tank classes that like to run 52-54% demi already, with pretty much no drawback over standard defensive equipment. Plus 5% more hp might be a little over the top.

 

Which brings me back to many of the same reasons I was wary of a straight increase of woe reductions, players who don't get to have their hands on these items (including almost all new players and guilds) now have to face characters from established guilds rushing their emp whom they already have trouble with that have even more reductions and are even harder to kill with no counterbalance, or scholars screwing them over that feel immortal because they just got more than a 20% reduction to the damage they were already taking. If you have a defensive god item and your opponent an offensive one, great that it cancels out, but it's effect on balance versus everyone else is something to be careful about I think especially on classic where god saturation tends to get a little crazy (otherwise their limitedness would offer a little more of a proper balance to it).

 

Immortal-feeling characters are probably more of a balance issue than characters that can kill people easier IMO (when by design of the game players should generally already be capable of killing their opponents) especially when many of the offensive items are buffs to melee classes that either weren't dangerous at all without them or kill without them already, except for cases like FBH where the buff is pretty massive on an already effective class that's ranged and with huge aoe (but then again we already have several people complaining about that needing nerfing for those reasons already).

 

All I'm saying is to be very careful and considerate about the effect additional equipment like this can and will have. Classic has additional damage headgears, but we also have 10% higher woe reductions and gpipe as well, so you're basically just trying to counterbalance other gods even more than existing high tier defensive items do, but that is going to screw with balance against everyone else not toting megs/hibrams very significantly as well.

Edited by rojoky113, 28 January 2016 - 08:38 AM.

[zerowon]

Why are we even considering adding new defensive gear when we don't even have kvm gear yet which is the only new gear I will support.

[Heart]

Classic god shield is only good for taking Melee hits

Classic God Helm=MP hack GMG hack Why don't we just get renewal cat ear beret?

Classic Mini Meg "give me your asprika then" because greed is a headgear item ability. If I was you I would ask for a list of hats they could use but not been implemented and modify it.

 

Shield : Not sure how race reduction is good only for melee(unless you are refering to gtb for magic nullification), still it works vs bombs etc, not just melee.

 

Helm : Wait, there is a GMG hack? Wow. Also because Cat Eat Beret isn't a god item and easily available via boxes?

 

Mini Meg : Greed is a headgear item ability? Says who? Who decides which ability goes to which gear? Also , Heroic backpack....

 

Seriously, please review your answers before posting.

[Undying]

Adding more defensive god tier items makes me a little wary, not saying it shouldn't be done at all but it needs to be done carefully. There are already high tier defensive items and if you look at them, they are designed in what looks like a very specific and deliberate manner: they buff defense towards one type of attack/element while leaving you more exposed to others as a balance, forcing you to switch equipment and always have a weakness of some sort over standard reductions/equipment.

 

GTB: Magic immunity but no cranial, so you take nearly half again as much damage as you would have (70% to 100% is almost 1.5 times as much).

Asprika: Excellent reduction to elemental melee, doesn't work vs bomb or magic.

Tao: Huge HP buff for surviving one-shot skills or sac-ing, huge def/mdef loss and can be frozen/stoned

DR: Large neutral resist for big killers in bomb/fist, elemental damage really messes you up.

GR: Massive reduction to neutral, but can freeze/SC to negate it.

Bryn: Hp boost has some moderate defensive use to survive reflect/one shot skills, but it isn't huge and you freeze/sc.

 

In undyings example, the headgear probably wouldn't be gamebreaking because it combines the uses of multiple existing headgears with just a slight buff, so it's main draw is not having to switch and saving hotkeys while having all those effects IMO which is actually pretty cool given almost every woe players desire for more hotkeys. The shield though, because of the way reductions stack that extra 10% is a pretty huge additional reduction especially on tank classes that like to run 52-54% demi already, with pretty much no drawback over standard defensive equipment. Plus 5% more hp might be a little over the top.

 

 

 

The thing with those amazing defensive gears... They stack and they stack extremely well. GTB frontliner with DR/Asprika/GR swaps being sac'd by a 149 dex 190 aspd TAO Sac pally... An entire allience can't kill it (videos to boot).

 

Headgear would be fine, in all honestly. I mean we are talking about GOD items, not sleps. So it should be very strong.

Shield isn't bad or too OP. I just like the fact that it can be useful in any situation. 

We need some sort of greed item and IMHO in an accessory slot or two.

 

Everything in game is killable and will always be able to die to some sort of combo.

 

@Heart- Thank you, you beat me to it!

 

@group- The effects of pretend god items really do not matter at all. Ignore that or at least don't get hung up on the schematics of it. It was just an example to create a point....

 

Point: Make WoE TE and make separate god items in it.

Edited by Undying, 28 January 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[rojoky113]

The thing with those amazing defensive gears... They stack and they stack extremely well. GTB frontliner with DR/Asprika/GR swaps being sac'd by a 149 dex 190 aspd TAO Sac pally... An entire allience can't kill it (videos to boot).

 

And imagine how much worse that combo would be, stacking all those 2 gods 2 mvps and 2 minis and a sac, if they weren't designed to each individually have weaknesses like your idea doesn't? Also, I'm not sure how you are wearing both a DR and an asprika at the same time, and one or the other makes that character quite vulnerable to different ways to kill them (or drop their sac, as it were). Swapping is never perfect and there's nothing you can do if you're targeted by multiple things that you'd need different swaps to counter at the same time.

 

Also, while difficult to kill in a GvG, saying that character can't be killed by entire alliances is pretty disingenuous to say when 1) there are characters utilizing that sort of set-up in gvgs (between guilds much less entire alliances) all the time on this server who can and do die and 2) that character could prolly be killed by 1-3 other characters who know what they are doing, especially if their opponents get anywhere near the amount of gods/mvps you have given them.

 

Also there is woe that exists outside of full gvg meta, woe1 is currently more popular on classic than woe2 and these items would affect all of it, so just saying.. you need to be really careful about the full implications of any significant defensive gear you want to add. Also, my vote is nay on KVM right now, but if you are going to put blanket defensive gear into the game you might as well do KVM gear.

 

As for TE, I'm obviously all for it. In terms of god items from it, I feel like making the god items we already have available via vanilla woe isn't a bad idea either. If the problem that's developing on this server, as it eventually seems to in pre-renewal with speed related to server rates, is that oversaturation of powerful gear and gods in established guilds makes them extraordinarily difficult to compete with as new players and guilds, why not make it so they can fight and earn those gears and catch up on a playing field that is more level, and then they can slowly build up their ability to compete in unrestricted woes without being completely blocked by having to compete in the unbalanced playing field they need those items to be able to be competitive in in the first place?

Edited by rojoky113, 28 January 2016 - 11:14 AM.