327 replies to this topic

[Campitor]

If you're going to ban a person who uses Chibi sprites, RIP WoE then lol

 

I think the main reason why you or GMs or any ones who have the authority dont ban people anymore is because the game cant afford to lose people anymore. So at the same time, legitimate players who happen to be bad at game are forced to leave because they cant complete with baddies with cheats and worse if pros with cheats hahaha
 

GM still bans people for the same stuff that they banned users 5 years ago for.

In regards to the WoE Cheating, we shared AP, No Delay, and many of the other edits and cheats with the studio. We can police the game population somewhat but solutions MUST come from the studio as there is only so much man hours we have available to patrol, check up on reported users, and answer tickets.

[Hissis]

The difference is Pneuma is a ground effect. It doesn't draw over the player sprite like Stone Curse as with the Chibi edit we are not a fan of anything that makes changes to a player sprite.

 

hmm thanks... :c

 

I Don't think a message saying '' Stone Curse '' is bad like Chibi or Pneuma Timer but OK :_:

 

Example:

 

Spoiler

[Xellie]

Well it would help if we knew what the rules were instead of being informed post-ban

 

yes im salty deal with it. GMs can't just go making up a rule that retroactively should have banned 40% of all guilds just to hit me.

[KamiKali]

So much incorrect information being said! The client edited Pneuma timer starts when you walk on screen and it even count downs twice if you leave screen and come back to it. ): RCX was the more accurate one since it never overlapped itself.

[Xellie]

So much incorrect information being said! The client edited Pneuma timer starts when you walk on screen and it even count downs twice if you leave screen and come back to it. ): RCX was the more accurate one since it never overlapped itself.

 

The RCX one doesn't display at all in woe/pvp

 

nice try tho.

 

 

[Campitor]

So much incorrect information being said! The client edited Pneuma timer starts when you walk on screen and it even count downs twice if you leave screen and come back to it. ): RCX was the more accurate one since it never overlapped itself.

 

 

The RCX one doesn't display at all in woe/pvp

 

nice try tho.

To me this is telling me that the studio needs to provide users with more information about effects and their timers. If edits are very popular to show them, then that is something that the game should communicate because players feel that they need that information.

 

Much of that was covered in the thread here: https://forums.warpp...hat-bother-you/

 

[Xellie]

RCX doesn't show enemy timers either.

[KamiKali]

The RCX one doesn't display at all in woe/pvp

 

nice try tho.

 

What's the point in this comparison? With the client edited pneuma timers, both PVM and PvPers are able to use it, with RCX only PVM players, but okay - RCX does a lot more things than what the current grf edits are capable of, such as exp timers, colored cells, colored dead tiles, BB lines. I'm not saying RCX in no way is /bad/ I've always wished it worked on Renewal, but too bad it doesn't.

 

You're attempting to make an argument where no one is arguing with you here.

[WolfTri]

You know its a damn common cheat to chibi some sprites and not others so you can target the support classes and take them down first? Wanna bet GM sprites AREN'T Chibi? Are we trusting players to use their potential cheats responsibly? Does this mean I can autopot or use packet injection so long as I don't use it in WoE?

 

 

Also I mean, I run around as satan morroc on some players screens, so go ahead and tell me that editting player sprites for targettin purposes is A-OK - you don't even know if it's NOT being used for that. Maybe some people only use autopot in town when they're brewing? lol.

 

AP and all the other stuff is bad too, but someone who streams shouldn't be encouraging things we were asked not to do. Even better when she's coming here snickering about how she's the only one who knows the rules because I can almost guarantee if I ran around with that edit I'd be banned faster than cinnamon clicking on a thread last posted in by me.

 

 

And no, I'm not saying she should be banned. I'm saying the staff need to CLEAR THINGS UP.

 

 

Nobody should be banned because they don't know how to lay out clear rules.

In WoE I can agree with disabling any and all sprite effects(or even any client edits at all), whether cosmetic or otherwise. In any competitive scenario, the playing field must be absolutely even. Even in pvm when people are competing for MVPs, a sprite that may look harmless could give someone an advantage. 

 

I'm also not very concerned about anyone being banned at present, first time offenses, especially on grey areas, are quite minimal. It is more an issue of what precedent we are setting.

 

About "trusting players to use their potential cheats responsibly", isn't that the very assumption we have on every player ever? Innocent until proven guilty. I mean, anyone can edit their client however they want and you would never know about it unless they post a video/screenshot. That doesn't mean you go about suspecting everyone who doesn't post videos, does it? You could extend the same logic to people who use edits with no harm. In both cases, there is 0 proof of usage in unfair circumstances. 

 

At the end of the day, if we start banning people for using edits that make the client look better while not doing anything even remotely competitive, then we are simply doing it out of fear that they either use it for other purposes as well (even though anyone else could be too, but just don't post about it), or out of fear that this will encourage people to edit their clients, legally or otherwise. The latter point I somewhat agree with, but if that is the case, then it must be a blanket ban on all client edits whatsoever.

 

Edits: some clarifications

Edited by WolfTri, 06 October 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[Easly]

GMs can't just go making up a rule that retroactively should have banned 40% of all guilds just to hit me.

 

Sure they can, and they actually did ban one of my accounts based on a video that was posted before they made a rule about RCX showing dead cells. I'm still pretty salty about that.

[SafelyEndangered]

Due to lack of profound understanding of game strategies, GM team clearly has no clue of what edits are more advantageous than the others. Therefore cannot make a sane conclusion what edits should be legal or illegal.

[Biggggg]

So why are we comparing classic stuff to renewal stuff? Renewal can't use rcx...

[WolfTri]

Due to lack of profound understanding of game strategies, GM team clearly has no clue of what edits are more advantageous than the others. Therefore cannot make a sane conclusion what edits should be legal or illegal.

That's true. A major caveat is that as long as the GM team can handle the additional responsibility. Justice is only as fair as the judge who pronounces it.

[Xellie]

What's the point in this comparison? With the client edited pneuma timers, both PVM and PvPers are able to use it, with RCX only PVM players, but okay - RCX does a lot more things than what the current grf edits are capable of, such as exp timers, colored cells, colored dead tiles, BB lines. I'm not saying RCX in no way is /bad/ I've always wished it worked on Renewal, but too bad it doesn't.

 

You're attempting to make an argument where no one is arguing with you here.

 

I think if you have something, everyone should have it. When it's something you have that others don't it crosses the line between QoL and becomes "advantage"

 

 

 

I could go off at the staff saying that edits that change the way the game looks substantially hurts the ability to bring back older players (as we know RO does not recruit majorly new gamers, but mainly veterans) and when they see this sprite editted, flat map (even RCX) - they see the game as alien.

 

 

I personally hate RCX, but I'm having to use it due to needing to deal with a classic specific issue right now and I find it disgusting.  The thing is, RCX isn't hidden knowledge and doesn't have all these different options like client editting does. it's not the kind of thing where we need a friend on the staff to poke and say "hey are we allowed to _________" whilst then battling off drama and accusations on the forum - with the staff accidentally engineering it to make you look like a cheater on the forums.

 

Which btw, is exactly what is happening to Kali.

 

 

For the record: I like to use a 99% vanilla client without RCX and I have an edit that is made to provide me with slightly more clarity when streaming videoing as I don't normally use RCX. My Storm gust, meteor and LoV are more transparent.

 

 

 

So why are we comparing classic stuff to renewal stuff? Renewal can't use rcx...

 

Don't you guys have the ROsimplehook thing? Also, if not, that just makes it worse that it's not globally available.

 

Edited by Xellie, 06 October 2016 - 10:20 AM.

[KamiKali]

People are allowed to have pneuma timers and other things listed in Camp's thread's guidelines. So...I don't see your point?

 

edit: Client edits shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but now that it's clarified to be okay, then there's no point in complaining about what someone does have because you don't.

 

And don't worry, I'm not threatened by people calling me a cheater or whatever. Petty things like that don't bother me since I know I'm the only guild leader that has not allowed their guild to use illegal programs. Accusations will always happen when there's envy.

Edited by KamiKali, 06 October 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[WolfTri]

Let's take a comparison. Rather drastic, I know, but bear with me >.>

Equate client edits with carrying a gun, with live ammunition. 

 

Using a client edit in town while doing nothing, is similar to firing your gun in a shooting range. A scenario where nothing bad could possibly happen. Both are harmless acts, but prove that the person in question has the capacity and knowledge to do something much worse and more harmful.

Similarly, using an edit in WoE would be shooting another person with the gun. 

 

So if you ban people for client edits in town, its like punishing someone for murder because they've been shooting their gun in a shooting range.

 

Note, I'm not going into the question of whether any client edits at all should be legal, that would be similar to the debate of whether or not carrying arms should be legal at all.

 

 

Edited by WolfTri, 06 October 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[Campitor]

it's not the kind of thing where we need a friend on the staff to poke and say "hey are we allowed to _________" whilst then battling off drama and accusations on the forum - with the staff accidentally engineering it to make you look like a cheater on the forums.

 

Which btw, is exactly what is happening to Kali.

 

 

 

The problem is, if we allow public accusations then it becomes another harassment issue. Reports must be made to the GM team through the ticket system.

[ChakriGuard]

Can you just ban any edits? Problems solved ... Smfh. You dont like private servers but every one edit allowed herer makes our server one step closer to private server like. And no, players dont need edits to play the game.

 

[Biggggg]

Nope we have nothing like rcx anymore. They broke RO hook. That's why the edits mean so much more now then ever really. Can't play with effects off anymore so it's a lag fest.

[Xellie]

The problem is, if we allow public accusations then it becomes another harassment issue. Reports must be made to the GM team through the ticket system.

 

*snort laugh*

 

Just defend people who are innocent so that it doesn't continue. Telling you this as someone who's gone through it 5ever! Unless you like being spammed with unactionable reports - how else will people know what is allowed and what isn't if you don't lay down examples hahaha. Just the other week Warnhal made up some new rule to me in PM promising a public announcement, we found that many other guilds were in violation of the new rule. The community harassed me about it with no prompting and Oda allowed it! In retaliation we mentioned a variety of examples that also broke the rule (as shouldn't this be public knowledge if they could get banned but think they're legal?), but those examples were deleted... because only Xellie must know this rule (because it only applies to her!)

 

Just let me know when the rules are known to everyone in the game and not just the pets.

 

 

Sorry not sorry. Been sick of this stuff for a while  and it's not just client edits.

Edited by Xellie, 06 October 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[Myzery]

The problem is, if we allow public accusations then it becomes another harassment issue. Reports must be made to the GM team through the ticket system.

 

The ticket system does not work. You have some guy that isn't even in your office pasting generic responses and the issues do not get investigated.
The last time people I know reported something they all got the same exact response, word for word.

 

[Xellie]

Nope we have nothing like rcx anymore. They broke RO hook. That's why the edits mean so much more now then ever really. Can't play with effects off anymore so it's a lag fest.

 

Oh my god.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope kRO get their act together soon then.

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure when Classic gets updated and we lose RCX the server is dead(er).

[WolfTri]

Just let me know when the rules are known to everyone in the game and not just the pets.

Simply put, there are no clear and set-in-stone rules. There never are. That never works. There's always ambiguity in things. It all depends on how well one can argue their case. 

[KamiKali]

Let's take a comparison. Rather drastic, I know, but bear with me >.>

Equate client edits with carrying a gun, with live ammunition. 

 

Using a client edit in town while doing nothing, is similar to firing your gun in a shooting range. A scenario where nothing bad could possibly happen. Both are harmless acts, but prove that the person in question has the capacity and knowledge to do something much worse and more harmful.

Similarly, using an edit in WoE would be shooting another person with the gun. 

 

So if you ban people for client edits in town, its like punishing someone for murder because they've been shooting their gun in a shooting range.

 

Note, I'm not going into the question of whether any client edits at all should be legal, that would be similar to the debate of whether or not carrying arms should be legal at all.

 

Great analogy.

[Biggggg]

Aww warnhal is my man. He is the only GM/CM that has ever talked to me . The other GMs or CMs are just to cool for me I guess .