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Lets talk Faceworm Skins and Eatgear


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#1 Campitor

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 06:34 PM

So we were reviewing the activity around eatgear and found that players were using the npc combined with FaceWorm in order to generate about $3-10 worth of item mall items per run.

 

Now were considering this just a side effect of the update when we received it and thats on us. That being said its not something we can keep going forward at the quantity which it what happening.

 

To address this we would like to add a special loot table to eat gear for these skins specifically.

 

Success

+7 0- 1 Elunium 0-1 Oridecon 1 Eden Merit Badge 

+8 1-2 Elunium 1-2 Oridecon 2 Eden Merit Badge

+9 or higher 3-4 Elunium 3-4 Oridecon 3 Eden Merit Badge 0-1 Safe to 7 Certs

 

Failure

+7 0- 1 Elunium Stones 0-1 Oridecon Stones 1 Eden Merit Badge 

+8 1-2 Elunium Stones 1-2 Oridecon Stones 2 Eden Merit Badge

+9 or higher 3-4 Elunium Stones 3-4 Oridecon Stones 3 Eden Merit Badge 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

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#2 leiand

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 06:40 PM

My thoughts are thats gonna make the OP guys more OP. if it takes the +10/higher gear since its a time run.

Same goes with the devil tower, and speed runs.


Edited by leiand, 15 December 2016 - 06:41 PM.

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#3 SilverCrow88

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 06:42 PM

wait so we need to get at least +9 in order to get certs safe??? thats not really good at all D:

+8 gears is really nice to get certs tho i got lucky long time ago T^T


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#4 Campitor

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 06:46 PM

wait so we need to get at least +9 in order to get certs safe??? thats not really good at all D:

+8 gears is really nice to get certs tho i got lucky long time ago T^T

This is for Faceworm skins only. They come out of the npc pre refined.


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#5 SilverCrow88

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 06:54 PM

This is for Faceworm skins only. They come out of the npc pre refined.

ah alright :o 


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#6 yamasakai90

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 07:03 PM

Lets include Devil's Tower too as the weapons comes pre-refine as well, although the speed of completion doesn't really affect the refine rate.

 

For Faceworm, the first few sections normally gives out +1 to +4 which rare exception of +6 and +7 which is close to less than 1 minute for each section. Not for the most people. I normally ignore these as its mainly +1-+4 with no good enchants. (my personal best is 1.35m for part 1, 1.00m for part 2 and 3 and 1.2m for party 4. Average time is normally around 2.00m for part 1, 1.30min for part 2 and 3 and 1.40 for part 4.

 

Currently most of the time: 

1. +7 gives out 10 elu, which is around 10-20k each, so 100-200k. Some people downgrade +10 to +7 at the cost of a Carnium (3 elus and 50-100k charge [not bothered to check], so around 130k?

2. +8 gives 1 Cert which is around 10-14m or 2 certs at 20-28m or downgrade a +11 to +8 with the same cost as above.

3. +9 gives 2-5 cert (20-70m)

 

We all know the success rate of eat mimic is kinda low, around 80-90% of the time it fails. If its supposingly higher, feel free to correct me.

 

As for the alternative rates that Campitor proposed. I think increasing the Elu and Oridecon amount to 5-10 doesn't hurts. But for me, those ores doesn't matter. If you give me more Eden Merit Badges, that would be great! Since 5 OPB (200k so 1m) = 1 Eden Merit Badges.

It would help replenishing Tokens used for runs and well, not affect the market to an extend. But if the change happen, can we have the 'normal rewards i.e Ores/Eden Merit Badges scale according to refine lvl +10/+11? The Safe Cert can maintain as it is. 

If Safe Certs are to be implemented for only successful 'eats', can we just move the border from +8/9 to +10/+11 instead? Seems sad that even feeding +10 or +11 gears to eat mimic still wont gives you at least 1 cert upon failure. 

 

Edit:

@Camp if the concert is +10 or +11 pre-refines, can we just do a separate rewards for those? It would give a person an option to downgrade it, or go for the eden merit badges a.k.a alternative rewards.

Getting +8/+9 isn't that common, but it isn't that rare as well.

 


Edited by yamasakai90, 15 December 2016 - 07:15 PM.

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#7 nheil02

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 07:07 PM

yeah not just faceworm skin but also evil slayer


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#8 MrLekkz

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 06:14 AM

yeah not just faceworm skin but also evil slayer

 

Don't think evil slayer is a problem, since it s not time related (no matter how fast i do, i still get garbage weapons sometimes)

 

 

But with faceworm it s not that rare to get a few certs each run.

 

 

edit:

 

@Campitor could you move this topic to Ragnarok 1 Community Chat? I think it will receive more feedback there..


Edited by MrLekkz, 16 December 2016 - 06:20 AM.

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#9 netorinetero

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 06:43 AM

Im ok with that as long as you get both eden badge and the ore. Just to get rid gfss that nobody wants
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#10 Doomsquare

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:02 AM

I actually stopped doing faceworm since the Nightmare Toy Factory was implemented. Prices of the MCA has dropped to be wayyy too low.

Faceworm used to have good monies when MCA was sitting at 30-40m (preNTF)

 

Now if it gives only Elus + Eden Badges, I don't see how this can even pay off for my consumables used per run.

 

 

Just my 2 cents.


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#11 meli

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:05 AM

Success

+7 0- 1 Elunium 0-1 Oridecon 1 Eden Merit Badge 

+8 1-2 Elunium 1-2 Oridecon 2 Eden Merit Badge

+9 or higher 3-4 Elunium 3-4 Oridecon 3 Eden Merit Badge 0-1 Safe to 7 Certs

 

Failure

+7 0- 1 Elunium Stones 0-1 Oridecon Stones 1 Eden Merit Badge 

+8 1-2 Elunium Stones 1-2 Oridecon Stones 2 Eden Merit Badge

+9 or higher 3-4 Elunium Stones 3-4 Oridecon Stones 3 Eden Merit Badge 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

This is a bit confusing, does it mean you get one of these three items at random, or all at once? Honestly, with the amounts of botted ores in the market, these rewards are meaningless, noone would run faceworm again.

 

I would suggest consumables people can make use of, for example Angeling Potion, Mental Potion, or Hometown Gift, plus EMB reward (5 EMB if the garment is +9 or higher).


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#12 Ashuckel

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:08 AM

Box with (5~20) unripe/dried Yggs on the reward please :)
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#13 Myzery

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:30 AM

I think this would work if you make Eden Badges more appealing.

Put the unfrozen shadow set for a few hundred Eden Badges each, along with consumables as others mentioned here.
The badge system has a lot of potential and it would get people doing gramps or whatever else to get things. As it stands now, no one is going to to do Faceworm if there is no incentive.
The price on MCAs has plummeted and most people are not going to waste supplies trying to solo it.


 


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#14 KamiKali

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:34 AM

I haven't pvmd in a while. Due to the update it made it more appealing to pvm to me. And I thought about starting to do Face worm again. Now with the change it won't be worth my time anymore.
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#15 Tofu

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:36 AM

Some kind of reward is better than no reward (since you're taking out the old cert exchange rate of snake skins anyway). But definitely there should be some good use for eden merit badges. What are they even used for now? Summoner is going away, so we have magical stones (?), an outdated set of consumables, or kvm badges?

Is the only difference between success and failure with the one safe to 7 at +9 or higher? Everything else looks the same to me, across success/failure of the same level.
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#16 YuyaFungami

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:37 AM

So we were reviewing the activity around eatgear and found that players were using the npc combined with FaceWorm in order to generate about $3-10 worth of item mall items per run.

 

Now were considering this just a side effect of the update when we received it and thats on us. That being said its not something we can keep going forward at the quantity which it what happening.

 

To address this we would like to add a special loot table to eat gear for these skins specifically.

 

Success

+7 0- 1 Elunium 0-1 Oridecon 1 Eden Merit Badge 

+8 1-2 Elunium 1-2 Oridecon 2 Eden Merit Badge

+9 or higher 3-4 Elunium 3-4 Oridecon 3 Eden Merit Badge 0-1 Safe to 7 Certs

 

Failure

+7 0- 1 Elunium Stones 0-1 Oridecon Stones 1 Eden Merit Badge 

+8 1-2 Elunium Stones 1-2 Oridecon Stones 2 Eden Merit Badge

+9 or higher 3-4 Elunium Stones 3-4 Oridecon Stones 3 Eden Merit Badge 

 

 

Thoughts?

Just no, EMB are almost completely useless now. Thanks for killing pretty much the only reason why people do faceworm.


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#17 jamdonutjam

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:41 AM

If Devil Slayer weapons are gonna be included, at least make the rewards tradeable between accounts OR make eat gear not require wearing the to-be-eaten gear.

 

For example, a main account with chars that cannot equip an Evil Slayer Mace will not benefit from the account-bound rewards.


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#18 Akreis

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 09:49 AM

There's many people who solo or duo Faceworm and use KP items such as the +10 foods, tokens, and buff scrolls (alongside other buffs that get expensive fast) in order to do these instances. :o So you guys would still be receiving money from these runs. It would be a win-win situation. It's not cheap for a lot of us to do these runs already as it is.

 

But of you're gonna do what you're gonna do anyways and make EMBs more of an award, please at least make them give better rewards from Merry Badger. The only useful thing I personally found on that NPC is the Magical Stones, Summoner and Token of Siegfried, otherwise, everything else sucks in my opinion. Then again, Summoner is being removed, so the EMBs will be even more useless unfortunately.


Edited by Akreis, 16 December 2016 - 09:51 AM.

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#19 WolfTri

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:01 AM

You're making players spend more time/money and asking how they feel about it. Obviously no one likes that. From a design point of view, if it hurts your profits, then take it down. This is absolutely not the kind of decision where player feedback is of any value.
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#20 EveGenesis

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:09 AM

Of course if it hurts your profit you should do away with it. I don't faceworm, so i don't really care about the rewards. But if  you are gonna make the reward less appealing (cause you can already see a few response up there) for everyone (unless you add more stuff to merry badger for eden merit badge to be useful), i don't see how this will help you either.

 

PVM stuff > make faceworm less appealing > less people do faceworm > less content to do (since you can basically earn more doing NTF)

 

let's say you remove (or nerf the reward) more stuff cause you can earn $3-$10 dollar worth of items (in other instance dungeon), then wouldn't you be removing everything that can be rewarding for people that want to do pvm content? (they can just farm one content and be finish for the day = less time in ro) (of course less time in a game is good in certain way, but i'm pretty sure you don't want player to spend less time playing your game?)

 

Just giving my thoughts, i don't play the game actively to care about the rewards but you making an instance that no one really do anymore less appealing. 


Edited by EveGenesis, 16 December 2016 - 10:21 AM.

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#21 Ashuckel

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:18 AM

unappealing content = less interest on the game = less ppl playing = less money for you :)


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#22 mrricebox

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:21 AM

Lol another instance down the drain. The brilliance of WP really shines through with this one.


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#23 meli

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:24 AM

By the way, 10$ worth of mall items is an exaggerated estimation, unless you do a crap load of faceworm runs, in which case you deserve to be awarded for putting time and effort into it, if you can't afford to pay for lucky boxes.


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#24 Ashuckel

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:34 AM

And anyways, you pretty much require cash shop items to do stuff on this game. Someone that farms faceworm for those certs (+possibly good garment and maybe FQL), even tho they are not spending their own real money on the game, the zeny they make through sheer farming they use to buy stuff that other players bought. 

Just like buying VIP with zeny bought WPE, the final buyer didnt bought it, but someone else bought extra just to sell it.

 


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#25 netorinetero

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:36 AM

Increase the chance of having perfect gfss. Maybe for solo pt.
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